Thoughts on it? I am trying to maximize the damage available to the FT with stacking up as much fury as I can, while maintaining a solid amount of might as well. I know it won’t stack up to the dps of a grenade engi, but I like the FT, and want to play it. Any thoughts on how I can improve the build would be wonderful.
looks like it would do the job in pve, the only thing i would change is the fury goggles for the thumper turret, the rune set i would replace the with the runes of strength and then i would add a sigil of battle to a weapon set , although i have not tested this build i would be guessing it would give a more sustained dps as you would be getting lots off might from the thumper turret/shield blast/runes and the sigil.
With 9 stacks of might from juggernaut a blast finish from the thumper turret and a weapon swap you will be hitting 21 stack of might form the word go, im sure that would work nicely if you time your fury when your might is at it’s highest!
Thks for the advice. During dungeons, idk, I haven’t done the math, but 10% damage from the rune seems like it would benefit you more than a 6 stacks of might, idk, that’s just what I would think. The thumper is a nice idea, but if I give up the fury goggles and the runes then I am down to strictly drop stimulant and elixir b + elixir B throw which is random, so that is 24 seconds of fury with a possible 36, compared to 48 with a possible 60, I could pretty much have fury up 100% of the time, giving me a very high increase in crit % over the course of a fight, compared to the crit increase during the might up time which would be a spike effect in DPS. I may be thinking about this all wrong, you could be right, idk much about the FT, and idk if it benefits more from a high crit % all the time, or higher might, and a smaller crit %, with a high % some of the time.
just tried them out in the mists, coulnt use your runes though! and to be honest there isn’t to much in it, i had on average around 300/400 more power and condition that yours, it stayed between 3600 and 3900 power, but i only had 74% crit for 50% of the time as where yours was perma, but even at 54% you still crit alot.
if it is for running in a dungeon though i still think the thumper would be better as blasts are aoe so it is not just you getting the benefit.
I am just trying to figure out what will yield the most DPS. It is good to know though that my build has perma fury, would probably require some in depth testing to find out which situations do the most damage.
I am just trying to figure out what will yield the most DPS. It is good to know though that my build has perma fury, would probably require some in depth testing to find out which situations do the most damage.
http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=257 As much as you want the ft to be a dps powerhouse it simply will never be compared to other options available to the engi. That isn’t to say you can’t do some respectable damage with it but there are better options. Having said that, take a look at the above build guide, it will net you the most potential damage you can get out of the ft (in a party situation) while providing some much better group support (and acid bomb hits like a truck provided the mobs don’t move out of it). Chances are in a party you will have other people providing fury; warriors, rangers, (these two also provide banner of discipline and spotter/frost spirit) and ele’s. The only thing your build provides is better vuln stacking (which is a consideration for pugs I suppose if you don’t have other people to stack it) but to be honest the grenade kit is the way to go in regards to that. The build you posted may net you potentially better dps when soloing or in a group that is not optimized very well, but from a group standpoint that is optimized it does not provide much that can’t be covered by other classes in which case it actually becomes weaker by losing out on all the other things that the build that was posted includes. For sake of credit, this is the build posted by Phineas Poe.
Edit: If you don’t like the stacking sigil then yes sigil of night is a better option provided the dungeon you are fighting in actually takes place at night (which many do) or could be replaced with a sigil of force.
I never understand why people want dps FT builds and add juggernaut trait. might comes cheaper than a kitten on 7 mile and the toughness gets you threat. Better moving those 5 points to 50 base power (pre might) or the 1% damage per boon trait.
Face it 25 stacks of might are easy to get in a group and the free might from jug is made useless 7 or 70 over the cap of 25 count for 0
I never understand why people want dps FT builds and add juggernaut trait. might comes cheaper than a kitten on 7 mile and the toughness gets you threat. Better moving those 5 points to 50 base power (pre might) or the 1% damage per boon trait.
Face it 25 stacks of might are easy to get in a group and the free might from jug is made useless 7 or 70 over the cap of 25 count for 0
The argument that Juggernaut is “made useless” is reliant on a lot of factors, and in my experience the stars just don’t align often enough to where I find that this is a problem.
On paper, a lot of classes have access to Might. But it’s usually only Elementalists and Guardians that can stack it as well as we can. I’m not one to assume that there’s always going to be an Elementalist in my group, and that even if there was, that they’re specced for Might stacking. What if they’re using their staff?
On the other hand, I prefer that a Guardian focus on their own things rather than concern themselves with stacking Might. In dungeons and fractals it’s enough to worry about dropping Wall of Reflection at the right time, dodging when necessary, and making sure they have proper placement so the conical attacks aren’t hitting the entire group. A good Guardian just doesn’t stand there and “spin and win” with the greatsword. And many Guardians don’t run their own staff, meaning Empower is not an option. And even if they were, I wouldn’t be offended if they just used it for Altruistic Healing, and used it when they needed the health rather than Might. That’s why Guardians generally use the skill anyway, unless it’s just the beginning of a fight.
I’ve been doing so DPS testing, wasted a day building a spreadsheet to compare builds and classes. Although not 100% accurate I think its giving me some decent numbers to compare. From my testing Bomb Kit/SD is the highest DPS if you have others in the group supplying 18+ stacks of vulnerability. Grenades/SD matches it if you supply 15 stacks. But with a FT/SD build you are only about 11% behind them in DPS. The trick is to cycle through your cooldowns and hit them as soon as they become available, and it works well for us Engi’s cuz we don’t have swap cooldowns to hinder us. If you hit FT2, R3, R4, TK3 and all your toolbelt skills on cooldown you will do respectable damage. Static Discharge and damaging toolbelts add respectable dps. It’s also rewarding game play once you get used to it.
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
I’ve been doing so DPS testing, wasted a day building a spreadsheet to compare builds and classes. Although not 100% accurate I think its giving me some decent numbers to compare. From my testing Bomb Kit/SD is the highest DPS if you have others in the group supplying 18+ stacks of vulnerability. Grenades/SD matches it if you supply 15 stacks. But with a FT/SD build you are only about 11% behind them in DPS. The trick is to cycle through your cooldowns and hit them as soon as they become available, and it works well for us Engi’s cuz we don’t have swap cooldowns to hinder us. If you hit FT2, R3, R4, TK3 and all your toolbelt skills on cooldown you will do respectable damage. Static Discharge and damaging toolbelts add respectable dps. It’s also rewarding game play once you get used to it.
Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions against unique conditions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game. Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.
edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively. Also as your tests have shown it is behind bomb and grenades in terms of damage, and it really doesn’t bring anything to the group, no vuln stacks, very little group might, so basically you have a subpar dps build (compared to other options) with no group utility whatsoever. The only thing it really has going for it is the fact that it’s the flamethrower and it’s fun to use. At least in phins build, he brings quite a bit of group utility through offering more team might, fury and group condi cleanse.
Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game.
It’s per unique boon, so 25 stacks of Might is considered “one” boon in the eyes of Energy Conversion Matrix, similar to Warrior’s Empowered.
Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.
edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively.
Keep in mind the purpose of my build and my thread is for players that want to use the Flamethrower and want the optimal setup for wielding it. If all you care about is adding Flame Blast into your build, then by all means drop Juggernaut. But I don’t see how a build is an “FT build” if you’re not actually staying in the FT but just using Flame Blast.
You also have to remember that the 5-9 stacks of Might from Juggernaut benefit your other abilities, including Acid Bomb, Blunderbuss, and Jump Shot. You will get more damage staying in the FT compiling Might through Sigil of Strength and Juggernaut than you will dropping to your Rifle and auto-attacking with Hip Shot.
Is energy conversion matrix per each boon or per each unique boon (same way mesmer’s iWarlock functions)? I have a feeling it is per each unique boon otherwise it seems ridiculously overpowered compared to any other flat damage boost trait in the game.
It’s per unique boon, so 25 stacks of Might is considered “one” boon in the eyes of Energy Conversion Matrix, similar to Warrior’s Empowered.
Having said that, the trait distribution that phin uses 0/25/0/20/25 is really the best trait distribution (assuming that ecm is per unique boon) for doing damage with the ft, I suppose I should have made that clearer in the post I made, that it’s the trait distribution that makes it “ideal” for such a role. The build you have linked would still work in such a trait distribution, you simply would need to either drop juggenaut (which is of questionable value in a organized group as another poster mentioned), or drop the cd reduction on rifle. What you gain is faster toolbelt recharges for sd, 10% more crit damage (which works out to only about 4% increase in actual damage value) and a true 10% damage increase at full endurance and gives you the ability to have constant vigor with the addition of speedy kits.
edit: also as a sidenote if you drop jugg. it won’t require you to stay in the ft to use it’s auto which, is just so very blah for actual dps numbers compared to just about any other auto in the game, this is of course assuming your party is able to stack might effectively.
Keep in mind the purpose of my build and my thread is for players that want to use the Flamethrower and want the optimal setup for wielding it. If all you care about is adding Flame Blast into your build, then by all means drop Juggernaut. But I don’t see how a build is an “FT build” if you’re not actually staying in the FT but just using Flame Blast.
You also have to remember that the 5-9 stacks of Might from Juggernaut benefit your other abilities, including Acid Bomb, Blunderbuss, and Jump Shot. You will get more damage staying in the FT compiling Might through Sigil of Strength and Juggernaut than you will dropping to your Rifle and auto-attacking with Hip Shot.
I agree with you phin, I understand that is the intention of your build. It’s clearly a dps/support hybrid and I use it quite frequently. My statement about the auto attack on the ft being pretty terrible really just comes from the standpoint of if your party is already able to maintain 25 might. In pugs this rarely happens I realize, but in organized groups it does happen quite frequently. I wouldn’t really call the ft/sd build a pure ft build either in my opinion since you spend so much time switching out of the ft in favor of rifle attacks and then also the toolkit anyway. My response was really directed more to blood’s build than yours, I was just trying to use a comparable. The build he posted is intended to do something different from what your build is, his is a pure dps build and as such from a pure dps standpoint ft auto is not even remotely the best option we have available given that might stacking is taken care of by the party. Having said this though from a numbers perspective the trait distribution you use is ideal for achieving the goal of pushing dps for a sd build like what blood’s example is where he is using the ft instead of say bombs or a simple rifle sd build. I didn’t mean it as a criticism of your build or it’s intent.
Yea, mine is more an attempt to bring DPS up closer to our other builds plain and simple. My attempt was to stay in FT as much as possible but switching is required to push DPS. Its a selfish build and nothing else, for the guys who wanna see big numbers or more like lotsa medium numbers. Juggernaut may be able to be dropped as you’re not gaining as much might by switching kits all the time and even running might duration runes you’re still only sitting at 6-7 stacks consistently. I’ll test it out with something closer to Phin’s build as it looks like it could work well.
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
I didn’t mean it as a criticism of your build or it’s intent.
Oh, I know. I was actually elaborating on your own point.
Juggernaut is worth using when you’re primarily focused on wielding the Flamethrower. If you’re not, such as simply firing off Flame Blast as a part of a DPS chain with Static Discharge, it probably is better to take something else, like Rifle Mod.
I did mean what I said, though: I don’t think a build that simply uses the Flamethrower for Flame Blast is really an “FT build,” which is what the OP seems to be looking for.
After some more testing IDK if I would call the build I linked an FT build either as its more of a ‘Hit your cooldowns’ build. You ‘rest’ in FT whenever you’re waiting but its not a lot. Whats nice with flamethrower though is even if you get a partial auto attack chain you’re getting continuous damage and you use Napalm and Incendiary Ammo for full time Burning. You’re only maintaining 3-4 stacks of might so not sure if it’s worth Juggernaut either like Phin said. Also, after another go at it I’ve brought the numbers much closer to Grenades and Bombs, was using PBR instead of TK in my initial calculations.
“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance”
and to be honest there isn’t to much in it, i had on average around 300/400 more power and condition that yours, it stayed between 3600 and 3900 power, but i only had 74% crit for 50% of the time as where yours was perma, but even at 54% you still crit alot.