Guild Wars 2

I asked if anyone had one, but decided to just make my own. Thoughts/comments/suggestions.

It is for sPVP mainly.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VVRR;2Z;0h0u5sTFx0;9;5T-T9;157A;119A5;0ao0;3AgV3HoF22VP

That’s about as might-stacky as you can get for a FT build, so if that’s your aim, it’s good. A few things to consider:

1) Only one more step into the Tools tree gives you back your toolbelt moves at 25%… not as big of a deal with your elixer set up but if you ever swap Elixir S for Elixir R, warrants consideration. I’ve double rezzed in my tPvP fights his way to take out defenders.

2) 10 points in Explosives for the 33% burn to add to the burns you’ll already be providing with FT kit.

3) This build really works better with Grenade Kit. While FT benefits from might, the results on a damage base dont match with GK, and so typically, FT builds work better with some ways to stack might intertwined, but not as the focus of the build (not for sPvP anway).

4) Juggernaut doesn’t always benefit you, since it’s usually a bad idea to stay in FT kit for too long, and you’re already stacking lots of might with everything else. You will honestly spend more of your time out of that kit relying on your pistols, this for me is the main weak point of the build. It does help you get a quick 6 stack headstart on your way to the node I suppose.

5) Not sure it’s necessary to use only might duration runes. Haven’t tested that one enough to say but it seems like a bad idea with FT compared to GK.

Other than that overtly critical assessment, yes, that’s the basic FT might stack build.

aydenunited.5729:

That’s about as might-stacky as you can get for a FT build, so if that’s your aim, it’s good. A few things to consider:

1) Only one more step into the Tools tree gives you back your toolbelt moves at 25%… not as big of a deal with your elixer set up but if you ever swap Elixir S for Elixir R, warrants consideration. I’ve double rezzed in my tPvP fights his way to take out defenders.

2) 10 points in Explosives for the 33% burn to add to the burns you’ll already be providing with FT kit.

3) This build really works better with Grenade Kit. While FT benefits from might, the results on a damage base dont match with GK, and so typically, FT builds work better with some ways to stack might intertwined, but not as the focus of the build (not for sPvP anway).

4) Juggernaut doesn’t always benefit you, since it’s usually a bad idea to stay in FT kit for too long, and you’re already stacking lots of might with everything else. You will honestly spend more of your time out of that kit relying on your pistols, this for me is the main weak point of the build. It does help you get a quick 6 stack headstart on your way to the node I suppose.

5) Not sure it’s necessary to use only might duration runes. Haven’t tested that one enough to say but it seems like a bad idea with FT compared to GK.

Other than that overtly critical assessment, yes, that’s the basic FT might stack build.

Thanks for the input.

I use the might duration runes for the reason that you mentioned, I am not always in my FT kit, and the duration runes allow me to stay in pistol mode longer before switching back. I can carry around 25 stacks of might no problem usually. I wish I had the points to give me the 33% fire chance with incendiary ammo, but I simply don’t. I refuse to play an Engi without speed, and HGH/Condition clears are a must IMO. Juggernaut is great and I won’t give that up either, so I have to drop stuff somewhere. Honestly I have not noticed much of a drop though in burning. I use the toolbelt skill off my FT religously for the added burning when I am shooting and it seems to work well. I have been playing around with it in hotjoins and I “smoked” an Engi/Ele duo earlier lol. It is quite fun. I essentially just took the HGH condi nades build and made it the HGH condi FT build.

will edit this post when I get home tonight:

highlights:
- don’t be afraid to stay in FT. It is just as beneficial to keep the kit equipped and swap out to other skills as it is to stow the kit and swap in to it. juggernaut is your friend.
- instead of might dura runes, try water and monk runes TP benefit all your boons.
- HGH is not always the best trait for FT, but Incendiary Powder always helps.

more to ce after work (late tonight) when I am at pc and not on mobile.

nakoda.4213:

will edit this post when I get home tonight:

highlights:
- don’t be afraid to stay in FT. It is just as beneficial to keep the kit equipped and swap out to other skills as it is to stow the kit and swap in to it. juggernaut is your friend.
- instead of might dura runes, try water and monk runes TP benefit all your boons.
- HGH is not always the best trait for FT, but Incendiary Powder always helps.

more to ce after work (late tonight) when I am at pc and not on mobile.

I don’t wanna be the smartkitten, but technically incendiary ammo is only effective 16.2% of the time with this build

49% crit rate, essentially 1 out of 2 shots are crit shots, and a 33% chance on crit shots to apply fire, therefore, 16 shots out of 100 apply fire.

Hardly always effective

Just sayin.

I might look into the Water/Monk runes though, those might be worth a look O.o

Galandor, an FT Engineer can sustain burns on a target with Incendiary Powder. The reason nakoda says it always helps is because Flame Jet gets a flat 10% buff in damage so long as the target is burning.

+10% damage to your Flame Jet is worth a lot more than a couple more stacks of Might

Phineas Poe.3018:

Galandor, an FT Engineer can sustain burns on a target with Incendiary Powder. The reason nakoda says it always helps is because Flame Jet gets a flat 10% buff in damage so long as the target is burning.

+10% damage to your Flame Jet is worth a lot more than a couple more stacks of Might

I did not know this O.o

interesting

Phineas Poe.3018:

Galandor, an FT Engineer can sustain burns on a target with Incendiary Powder. The reason nakoda says it always helps is because Flame Jet gets a flat 10% buff in damage so long as the target is burning.

+10% damage to your Flame Jet is worth a lot more than a couple more stacks of Might

Unfortunately, there is still nothing I can give up to gain it, giving up speed is not a question, and HGH is the center of the build. Were not talking about a couple of stacks of might with that, were talking about an extra 12-15 stacks I can sustain, to hold me at 25. Also the might doesn’t only effect the damage % of the Flame Jet, it works with my pistol conditions as well, improving my bleed/poison/blowtorch damage % as well. I would rather take a solid 7-8% damage increase across the board than a 10% increase on 1 ability, and also sacrifice my speed in the process.

I would definitely ditch the speed for the 33% chance to inflict burning on crit. The fact that you take Juggernaut means that FT should be your primary weapon and the pistols should be your secondary range and versatility weapons, and maintaining a constant burning effect on multiple targets is one of the FT’s greatest advantages. You also won’t be kiting very much in this spec, so Swiftness doesn’t help you as much when you’re backpedaling and strafing to find the sweet spot that burns as many targets as possible. Furthermore, your Elixir spec already gives you 13 seconds of Swiftness from your Elixir B and random chances to gain 13 more seconds of Swiftness when you use Elixir H and toss Elixir B.
Also, I took Infused Precision for Vulnerability stacks rather than Hair Trigger. Buffs and Debuffs are what define the Engineer class, so I focused my build around building my buffs and continously keeping lots of stacks of burning, bleeding, and vulnerability effects on my opponents.

Another question for you conditions/might/FT guys…

My current build uses HGH, because I don’t like Juggernaut… now I typically get around 10 stacks of might that I maintain during the fight, and 1v1 I don’t have a problem with any other profession, and in tPvP, I still seem to do pretty well, especially taking their bunker off their home point solo.

Why are FT people trying to stack so high? It seems enough just to get some incidental stacks from procs on Sigils and using elixirs you would use anyway. I get why we do in the GK, but FT it doesn’t seem as necessary.

aydenunited.5729:

Another question for you conditions/might/FT guys…

My current build uses HGH, because I don’t like Juggernaut… now I typically get around 10 stacks of might that I maintain during the fight, and 1v1 I don’t have a problem with any other profession, and in tPvP, I still seem to do pretty well, especially taking their bunker off their home point solo.

Why are FT people trying to stack so high? It seems enough just to get some incidental stacks from procs on Sigils and using elixirs you would use anyway. I get why we do in the GK, but FT it doesn’t seem as necessary.

Well Juggernaut doesn’t just stack Might. It also gives 200 Toughness.

As for why stack Might—why not?

Phineas Poe.3018:

aydenunited.5729:

Another question for you conditions/might/FT guys…

My current build uses HGH, because I don’t like Juggernaut… now I typically get around 10 stacks of might that I maintain during the fight, and 1v1 I don’t have a problem with any other profession, and in tPvP, I still seem to do pretty well, especially taking their bunker off their home point solo.

Why are FT people trying to stack so high? It seems enough just to get some incidental stacks from procs on Sigils and using elixirs you would use anyway. I get why we do in the GK, but FT it doesn’t seem as necessary.

Well Juggernaut doesn’t just stack Might. It also gives 200 Toughness.

As for why stack Might—why not?

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

aydenunited.5729:

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed is a good combo, agreed.

Not sure how running Juggernaut affects that, though?

Phineas Poe.3018:

aydenunited.5729:

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed is a good combo, agreed.

Not sure how running Juggernaut affects that, though?

Because my other two traits in the Firearms line give 20% CD reduction in Pistol (my main weapon) and 20% reduction in FT (for 12 second AoE knockback and I use Napalm a lot for a fire field).

Anyway, I guess I’m beginning to answer my own question, I guess it all comes down to style of play. I prefer to be a duelist and solo node taker over group play… I don’t want to focus on keeping stacks of might up for too long, but I do like the way HGH synergizes over a longer fight, every elixir pop making my conditions grow stronger and stronger and applying more pressure, but I dislike might as the ‘focus’ of a FT build.

If you use pistols more than the FT then your Swiftness/Invigor combo is great for a kiting spec, but if FT is your primary weapon like you made it seem in this thread then the Swiftness/Invigor combo is less relevant because the FT shines in close quarter AOE situations. The FT is not designed for you to be popping off shots and rolling around all over the place, because your primary source of damage (Flame Jet) is a 2.25 second channeled ability that does most of it’s damage on the back end of the channel, and your incendiary round and smoke vent can be used while you’re channeling Flame Jet. If you’re going to be rolling around mid channel, you will be wasting a lot of FT damage.

FT is a powerhouse spec, not a finesse spec like the Pistols. You can get 15% increased damage to FT in Alchemy, 10% increased damage against all burning targets, 5% increased damage against bleeding targets, 1% extra damage for every boon on you, and you can stack vulnerability on foes which further increases your damage by a percentage based on how many stacks of Vulnerability you get on them. Having high crit works really well with the FT because it hits many targets and attacks very fast, so therefore it has a good chance of stacking a lot of bleeds, burns, and vulnerability effects on several targets at once. That doesn’t even begin to include all the stacks of might you will have with Juggernaut + HGH combo and whatever runes you choose to use.

Dimes.7281:

If you use pistols more than the FT then your Swiftness/Invigor combo is great for a kiting spec, but if FT is your primary weapon like you made it seem in this thread then the Swiftness/Invigor combo is less relevant because the FT shines in close quarter AOE situations. The FT is not designed for you to be popping off shots and rolling around all over the place, because your primary source of damage (Flame Jet) is a 2.25 second channeled ability that does most of it’s damage on the back end of the channel, and your incendiary round and smoke vent can be used while you’re channeling Flame Jet. If you’re going to be rolling around mid channel, you will be wasting a lot of FT damage.

FT is a powerhouse spec, not a finesse spec like the Pistols. You can get 15% increased damage to FT in Alchemy, 10% increased damage against all burning targets, 5% increased damage against bleeding targets, 1% extra damage for every boon on you, and you can stack vulnerability on foes which further increases your damage by a percentage based on how many stacks of Vulnerability you get on them. Having high crit works really well with the FT because it hits many targets and attacks very fast, so therefore it has a good chance of stacking a lot of bleeds, burns, and vulnerability effects on several targets at once. That doesn’t even begin to include all the stacks of might you will have with Juggernaut + HGH combo and whatever runes you choose to use.

I hardly ever use FT #1 or FT #2, but I use 3, 4, and 5 a LOT, and I time incendiary ammo with my biggest swell of DPS once I get the might stacks up and when I know they are about to try and heal. So in that respect, I feel I do use FT a lot, I just don’t look at it as a damage kit for my current build.

I’ve posted this on my FT thread but I’ll repost it here, please note it’s still a work in progress.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspyanuSfF17IBoHAuu3V0jH3YK/pAbB;ToAAzCqo4xwjgHLPOek8MqYSA

I’m still not sure if I like Rabid or Rampagers trinket more, seeing as the crazy crit chance you have with Ramp feeds even more into the perks but Rabid has a ton more survivability. With this you should be in FT most of the time and only using pistol to pop off its skills and get back into FT. You’ll be applying Vulnerability, bleeding, and of course burning constantly with Flame jet. As I said the amount of conditions applied will depend of your gear choices. Runes are also your choice I just feel like flame legion synergies well due to the fact that you’ll have your targets on fire almost 100% of the time meaning flame jet will deal 15% more damage to of fire foes and another extra 15% with deadly mixture.

I think my build’s greatest weakness is it doesn’t have perma swiftness, but I feel relocating any points would reduce the builds overall effectiveness.

aydenunited.5729:

Dimes.7281:

If you use pistols more than the FT then your Swiftness/Invigor combo is great for a kiting spec, but if FT is your primary weapon like you made it seem in this thread then the Swiftness/Invigor combo is less relevant because the FT shines in close quarter AOE situations. The FT is not designed for you to be popping off shots and rolling around all over the place, because your primary source of damage (Flame Jet) is a 2.25 second channeled ability that does most of it’s damage on the back end of the channel, and your incendiary round and smoke vent can be used while you’re channeling Flame Jet. If you’re going to be rolling around mid channel, you will be wasting a lot of FT damage.

FT is a powerhouse spec, not a finesse spec like the Pistols. You can get 15% increased damage to FT in Alchemy, 10% increased damage against all burning targets, 5% increased damage against bleeding targets, 1% extra damage for every boon on you, and you can stack vulnerability on foes which further increases your damage by a percentage based on how many stacks of Vulnerability you get on them. Having high crit works really well with the FT because it hits many targets and attacks very fast, so therefore it has a good chance of stacking a lot of bleeds, burns, and vulnerability effects on several targets at once. That doesn’t even begin to include all the stacks of might you will have with Juggernaut + HGH combo and whatever runes you choose to use.

I hardly ever use FT #1 or FT #2, but I use 3, 4, and 5 a LOT, and I time incendiary ammo with my biggest swell of DPS once I get the might stacks up and when I know they are about to try and heal. So in that respect, I feel I do use FT a lot, I just don’t look at it as a damage kit for my current build.

Right, you’re using the FT’s defensive abilities to supplement your Pistol kite build, but a true FT build means your primary source of damage would be from the FT.

Dimes.7281:

aydenunited.5729:

Dimes.7281:

If you use pistols more than the FT then your Swiftness/Invigor combo is great for a kiting spec, but if FT is your primary weapon like you made it seem in this thread then the Swiftness/Invigor combo is less relevant because the FT shines in close quarter AOE situations. The FT is not designed for you to be popping off shots and rolling around all over the place, because your primary source of damage (Flame Jet) is a 2.25 second channeled ability that does most of it’s damage on the back end of the channel, and your incendiary round and smoke vent can be used while you’re channeling Flame Jet. If you’re going to be rolling around mid channel, you will be wasting a lot of FT damage.

FT is a powerhouse spec, not a finesse spec like the Pistols. You can get 15% increased damage to FT in Alchemy, 10% increased damage against all burning targets, 5% increased damage against bleeding targets, 1% extra damage for every boon on you, and you can stack vulnerability on foes which further increases your damage by a percentage based on how many stacks of Vulnerability you get on them. Having high crit works really well with the FT because it hits many targets and attacks very fast, so therefore it has a good chance of stacking a lot of bleeds, burns, and vulnerability effects on several targets at once. That doesn’t even begin to include all the stacks of might you will have with Juggernaut + HGH combo and whatever runes you choose to use.

I hardly ever use FT #1 or FT #2, but I use 3, 4, and 5 a LOT, and I time incendiary ammo with my biggest swell of DPS once I get the might stacks up and when I know they are about to try and heal. So in that respect, I feel I do use FT a lot, I just don’t look at it as a damage kit for my current build.

Right, you’re using the FT’s defensive abilities to supplement your Pistol kite build, but a true FT build means your primary source of damage would be from the FT.

AKA my build post above :P

I use rampager and swap out the jewel (I waffle between rabid, carrion, and soldier)

I cannot cut and paste on the mobile, but I have lots of info in the post your build thread, as well as the thread “the levitican ft build”

I don’t like the idea of relying on infused precision for my speed, and precise sights is meh, I don’t run a build great at stacking vulnerability to begin with, and I don’t have anything to assist in building it up quickly, so I don’t see the point in trying to do that when what I can do to increase my damage is build up might. Running around with 2k condition damage is filthy. Drop a poison shot on them, blowtorch, throw a confusion out, flip over to FT, drop the #2, #3, throw down napalm, they then have 2 choices,
1) run away, upon which I pull out my pistols and unload on them, they are not getting away from me due to my perma swiftness.
2) charge right into me and my napalm, and possible elite dump stun on them thereby killing them.

Just my thought process on the build, it is my personal play style though, and of course it may not work for everyone.

Dimes.7281:

aydenunited.5729:

Dimes.7281:

If you use pistols more than the FT then your Swiftness/Invigor combo is great for a kiting spec, but if FT is your primary weapon like you made it seem in this thread then the Swiftness/Invigor combo is less relevant because the FT shines in close quarter AOE situations. The FT is not designed for you to be popping off shots and rolling around all over the place, because your primary source of damage (Flame Jet) is a 2.25 second channeled ability that does most of it’s damage on the back end of the channel, and your incendiary round and smoke vent can be used while you’re channeling Flame Jet. If you’re going to be rolling around mid channel, you will be wasting a lot of FT damage.

FT is a powerhouse spec, not a finesse spec like the Pistols. You can get 15% increased damage to FT in Alchemy, 10% increased damage against all burning targets, 5% increased damage against bleeding targets, 1% extra damage for every boon on you, and you can stack vulnerability on foes which further increases your damage by a percentage based on how many stacks of Vulnerability you get on them. Having high crit works really well with the FT because it hits many targets and attacks very fast, so therefore it has a good chance of stacking a lot of bleeds, burns, and vulnerability effects on several targets at once. That doesn’t even begin to include all the stacks of might you will have with Juggernaut + HGH combo and whatever runes you choose to use.

I hardly ever use FT #1 or FT #2, but I use 3, 4, and 5 a LOT, and I time incendiary ammo with my biggest swell of DPS once I get the might stacks up and when I know they are about to try and heal. So in that respect, I feel I do use FT a lot, I just don’t look at it as a damage kit for my current build.

Right, you’re using the FT’s defensive abilities to supplement your Pistol kite build, but a true FT build means your primary source of damage would be from the FT.

Semantics.

Hey, its the flamethrower-instead-of-nades sPVP build that was poo pooed just days ago. Now, not so much.

I’m of the mind that if you’re running 25 stacks of might constantly, you’re not making the best use of this build. You get 10/11 stacks with FT plus 3 for B, plus 3 more @ 75% which is more than likely to happen in a given fight. Swap out is another 3 stacks. So 20 stacks with the lowest duration at 28.5 seconds (15 secs * 1.9). Of course you still have to consider healing, S, thrown elixirs, more swaps (6 second cooldown) and other peoples’ buffs, but you see where I’m going here.

I tend to use undead runes instead of fire/strength/hoelbrak because I like the flatter condition damage curve and higher beginning point. I also think the geomancy weapon rune is a viable option instead of strength on your pistol because we go wanting for bleeds generally, and geomancy gives us 3 stacks for 7 seconds at least on a weapon swap. (incidently, it also has a direct damage component to boot!)

And yes, for Spvp, I think incendiary powder is a must for this build. I say that because 13 seconds of speed from elixir B should get you to where you need to be quick enough. Also, your flamethrower does a great job of proccing it in close quarters. FT 1 with full burst followed by FT 3 should net you at least 5 ticks of burning. And its tough to cleanse since for half of the while, your opponent is in knockback/recover mode.

Good times!

Shiloh.4093:

Hey, its the flamethrower-instead-of-nades sPVP build that was poo pooed just days ago. Now, not so much.

I’m of the mind that if you’re running 25 stacks of might constantly, you’re not making the best use of this build. You get 10/11 stacks with FT plus 3 for B, plus 3 more @ 75% which is more than likely to happen in a given fight. Swap out is another 3 stacks. So 20 stacks with the lowest duration at 28.5 seconds (15 secs * 1.9). Of course you still have to consider healing, S, thrown elixirs, more swaps (6 second cooldown) and other peoples’ buffs, but you see where I’m going here.

I tend to use undead runes instead of fire/strength/hoelbrak because I like the flatter condition damage curve and higher beginning point. I also think the geomancy weapon rune is a viable option instead of strength on your pistol because we go wanting for bleeds generally, and geomancy gives us 3 stacks for 7 seconds at least on a weapon swap. (incidently, it also has a direct damage component to boot!)

And yes, for Spvp, I think incendiary powder is a must for this build. I say that because 13 seconds of speed from elixir B should get you to where you need to be quick enough. Also, your flamethrower does a great job of proccing it in close quarters. FT 1 with full burst followed by FT 3 should net you at least 5 ticks of burning. And its tough to cleanse since for half of the while, your opponent is in knockback/recover mode.

Good times!

I tend to agree with you here. Right now our FT builds seem to be choosing between a snowball effect of might stacking and constantly getting stronger throughout the fight, or something in the middle where you are delivering a steady amount of CC and fluctuating those numbers based on a few well timed applications of might.

I’m testing both, still not sure which I prefer. In a team fight the might stacking seems much better because I’m not always focused.

Phineas Poe.3018:

aydenunited.5729:

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed is a good combo, agreed.

Not sure how running Juggernaut affects that, though?

Something I’m finding, even in my apparent “pistol kite build”, is that Juggernaut bridges my Elixir downtime when I’m moving between points. That might be enough to bait me to swap that for a few less dodges, I just have to adjust my rotations to opening with FT and swapping to P/P rather than the other way around, which is me typically opening up with my pistols.

So maybe I’m changing my mind. Time will tell. Either way, this dialogue opening up about FT is good, far too many people marginalize it as useless, and you’ll notice there aren’t many naysayers in this topic, most people are posting good constructive info on the kit and different ways to use it.

I don’t understand how a fully traited FT + HGH build isn’t the most popular PVE DPS build over a GK + HGH build. It provides more DD damage, stacks more might, you’re already in range to use Blowtorch, and you never have to waste any DPS by taking the time to aim every ability.

I fought a guardian earlier who when he saw me and I asked him if he wanted to fight, he laughed and said, “An Engi? With a FT? Lol, you sure? Okay…”

I proceeded to drop him to the ground in 15 seconds and the only heal I used was to jump my might up to 25.

He was shocked.

galandor.1059:

I fought a guardian earlier who when he saw me and I asked him if he wanted to fight, he laughed and said, “An Engi? With a FT? Lol, you sure? Okay…”

I proceeded to drop him to the ground in 15 seconds and the only heal I used was to jump my might up to 25.

He was shocked.

Ahhh Arrogance (Him, not you just so it’s clear haha ^^), the wonderfull killer of giants and the reason the turtle was faster then the Rabbit! Poor silly Guardien! good work!

aydenunited.5729:

Phineas Poe.3018:

aydenunited.5729:

Because it leaves my slot open in that trait line for Swift on crit to match my Vigor on Swift trait in Alchemy.

And I run a pretty tough build, that 200 Toughness doesn’t matter when I ony use FT to swap, do a move or to, then swap back.

Infused Precision + Invigorating Speed is a good combo, agreed.

Not sure how running Juggernaut affects that, though?

Something I’m finding, even in my apparent “pistol kite build”, is that Juggernaut bridges my Elixir downtime when I’m moving between points. That might be enough to bait me to swap that for a few less dodges, I just have to adjust my rotations to opening with FT and swapping to P/P rather than the other way around, which is me typically opening up with my pistols.

So maybe I’m changing my mind. Time will tell. Either way, this dialogue opening up about FT is good, far too many people marginalize it as useless, and you’ll notice there aren’t many naysayers in this topic, most people are posting good constructive info on the kit and different ways to use it.

actually, ayden, I would keep the pistols out on approach due to the range.

volley your pistol conds, throw in a fire blast, switch to blow torch to get the burns started as you close in, then back to ft 1, swapping your pistols in to renew conds as needed.

galandor.1059:

Unfortunately, there is still nothing I can give up to gain it, giving up speed is not a question, and HGH is the center of the build. Were not talking about a couple of stacks of might with that, were talking about an extra 12-15 stacks I can sustain, to hold me at 25.

Well, running Might Duration runes closes the gap significantly, especially if you use Sigil of Strength; I can sustain 18 stacks of Might and use my final trait for improving defense like Cleansing Formula or Protection Injection. Sometimes both.

There is more than one way to skin a cat of course, so if you find a method you like by all means continue using it.

Dimes.7281:

I don’t understand how a fully traited FT + HGH build isn’t the most popular PVE DPS build over a GK + HGH build. It provides more DD damage, stacks more might, you’re already in range to use Blowtorch, and you never have to waste any DPS by taking the time to aim every ability.

Well, the Grenade Kit does more damage than the Flamethrower.

Flame Blast is better at raw power than anything the Grenade Kit has, but spamming Grenade does way more damage than Flame Jet does.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Dimes.7281:

I don’t understand how a fully traited FT + HGH build isn’t the most popular PVE DPS build over a GK + HGH build. It provides more DD damage, stacks more might, you’re already in range to use Blowtorch, and you never have to waste any DPS by taking the time to aim every ability.

Well, the Grenade Kit does more damage than the Flamethrower.

Flame Blast is better at raw power than anything the Grenade Kit has, but spamming Grenade does way more damage than Flame Jet does.

Just curious if there are DPS meters in this game that have tested that. Fully specced into FT you get +30% damage for using it (15% from Alchemy trait, 10% dmg against burning target’s from Flame Jet, and 5% dmg against bleeding targets from Firearms trait). Your also guaranteed a permanent 6-7 stacks of might as long as you wield the FT and FT abilities scale from power better than the GK’s. Add into account that you’re much less likely to miss with the FT than you are with GK abilities, which means more consistent DPS. You will have less condition damage overall with the FT but you will have much more direct damage, and it still attacks fast enough to stack bleed effects, burning, and vulnerability on targets.

You don’t need DPS meters. You can just plug in the numbers.

Flame Jet is a 2.25 second channel.
Grenade has a 0.5 second recast.

Both the Grenade Kit and Flamethrower have a weapon damage value of 969, as all of our kits do.

Grenade scales to x0.3 your Power.
Flame Jet scales by x1.5 your Power.

Let’s say you have 2000 Power and 500 Condition Damage.

(969 × 2000 × 0.3)/2600 = 223 damage (669 per barrage with Grenadier)
(969 × 2000 × 1.5)/2600 = 1118 + 453 (1571 per Flame Jet)

If you’ve got Incendiary Powder and Deadly Mixture, that adds another 25%. But that’s still no where near the output you’d get from the Grenade Kit given you can get three to four tosses in the time it takes to channel one Flame Jet.

Might stacking can arguably make the difference, but that is very dependent on gear setup, traits, and whatever else. The fact of the matter is: the Grenade Kit does more damage. Even if you factored in 3000 Power for the Flamethrower, you’re still averaging only 1677 direct damage per Flame Jet over 2.25 seconds—the output of which could be matched in three grenade tosses.

The Flamethrower is a competitive DPS option and does just fine on its own, but it doesn’t outdamage the Grenade Kit. If it did, I think there’d be a problem. Why should a kit that grants 200 Toughness when wielding it do more than the Grenade Kit which doesn’t?

The reason I asked about damage meters is because I want to test the practical application between the weapon kits and not just plug in the numbers. Both weapons are aimed very differently and are used from different ranges, so when considering DPS it is important to factor in the accuracy using the weapon when the user is moving while also trying to hit moving targets. Furthermore, since the FT’s range is 600m while the GK’s is 1200m, depending on how you are traited the FT’s abilities may synchronize with Pistols better than the GK’s since when you switch from FT to Pistols you’re presumably already within range to use Pistol abilities whereas if you switch from GK to Pistols you may still need to close a 300m gap from 1200m to be within the Pistols 900m range (this may account for overall dps loss). It’s also important to note that the highest damage pistol ability (Blowtorch) provides the most DPS within melee range, which makes it easier to use with FT over GK.

It also takes into consideration aim and grenade travel time that has to be used with a GK kit. Although you can use the ability every .5 seconds, that doesn’t mean your actually firing them off every .5 seconds. First you must click #1, then you must aim, then you must click again to fire. Not even the best grenadiers can continuously shoot and hit their targets while moving and while the target is moving reliably every .5 seconds; damage meters would account for human thought, action, and reaction times.

You ask why the FT would put out more damage than a GK? Why does a Warrior with more HP and Armor put out more damage than X class? Because range and utility make a difference. The FT is 600 range and the GK is 1200 range, and the closer you are to the action the more susceptible you are to taking more damage and being subjected to controlling effects. Also, a fully traited FT user doesn’t have a gap closer or any real major escape abilities, so you almost completely throw out finesse and become more of a power class that relies on it’s DPS to try and kill targets faster than they can kill you.

no gap closer if you have pistols, yes, but rifle 5 is a solid gap closer. if you have medkit, medkit 5 doesn’t hurt either.

if you really get in to the rhythm of casting nets and chasing with the FT, you’ll find there is a lot of finesse behind making sure your foe is always within the range of your cone, whether your FT is equipped or not.

you are right about the dps race, though. i enjoy that kind of approach, however, and many do not. no matter if necro, or eng, or whatever, the attrition builds are made to watch HP bars tick away in one fashion or another. the FT is an attrition weapon. a burn spreader. a group harassment tool. a crowd controller. so many useful things.

galandor.1059:

I asked if anyone had one, but decided to just make my own. Thoughts/comments/suggestions.

It is for sPVP mainly.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VVRR;2Z;0h0u5sTFx0;9;5T-T9;157A;119A5;0ao0;3AgV3HoF22VP

This is nearly the exact build ive been in love with for months.. only difference being the odd 10 points and i use elixer C w/1 sigil of purity instead of 409 (which is replaced with the FT damage buff).

crazy effctive in a wide range of situations.. my favorite being eating bunkers for breakfast.

in my opinion, anyone who thinks the extra damage output from grenades is of more value than air blast (w/12s recharge) is either not fighting tough fights (read: wvw) or is just plain bad.

Still trying to figure out what jewelry is the best to use with this build. ATM I am running rabid, nothing else looks worth it atm.

nakoda.4213:

no gap closer if you have pistols, yes, but rifle 5 is a solid gap closer. if you have medkit, medkit 5 doesn’t hurt either.

if you really get in to the rhythm of casting nets and chasing with the FT, you’ll find there is a lot of finesse behind making sure your foe is always within the range of your cone, whether your FT is equipped or not.

you are right about the dps race, though. i enjoy that kind of approach, however, and many do not. no matter if necro, or eng, or whatever, the attrition builds are made to watch HP bars tick away in one fashion or another. the FT is an attrition weapon. a burn spreader. a group harassment tool. a crowd controller. so many useful things.

Net is awesome but Jump Shot is not a gap closer. For 1 it’s range is only 700 feet and the FT’s range is already 600. Secondly it takes .25 seconds to cast in which you cannot be moving. This may not sound like a big deal but you do have to stop running and stand still briefly to use it. Finally, it takes a while to fly through the air and then it does this delayed landing smash effect which takes even more time for your target to move. I prefer having 2 interrupts and a possible stun from a shield than only using the rifle for the net. I don’t use med kit but Elixir B would work just as well.

with 3 nets, rifle 5 is never hard to land.

Running the net turret is pretty hilarious when run in combination with the rifle. 3 nets on command, and a 4th if you include the elite, you can pretty much keep someone perma CC’ed and just shoot them down.

nakoda.4213:

with 3 nets, rifle 5 is never hard to land.

If you have 3 nets then you don’t even need Rifle 5 =).

galandor.1059:

Still trying to figure out what jewelry is the best to use with this build. ATM I am running rabid, nothing else looks worth it atm.

While I haven’t tried it I would think it might be worth trying Valkyrie jewelry. With a rifle or P/S. You would keep same toughness and lose precision, but with fury from Elixir B and 30 in firearms should still be critting. Switching from conditions to power/crit may be a big change in playstyle though

Got bored and made an HGH rifle engi

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VV70;2Z;0h0u5NSFx0;9;4JJ-T-49-58;219A;1P;5Cok1A7W38RI