Guild Wars 2

Lets look on Scrapper after what we saw on POI (sorry for bad english tho)
So I have little mix feelings here. Hammer is fantastic but when I saw Gyros I was like ‘thats it?’ Obviosly this need lots of work so lets give devs some constructive feedback shall we?
Lets take it skill by skill, trait by trait

Hammer
Skill #1 - Pretty standart autoattack but did we really need more ways to stack Might for self? We have like 5 ways with this one and we was able keep 25 stacks perma before. This is bit unnecessary overkill. Also all our Mightstacks except blast are selfish what about make this little PS and give something to allies? Or stack Fury instead of Might that would me much more handy imo.
Skill #2 - This one is very nice nothing to improove for me.
Skill #3 - From tooltip is range of this is 1000 and that is cool but on video it was just this little leaps like 100 range. It should be definetly longer.
Skill #4 - Nothing to say here its cool skill
Skill #5 - Coolness overload:-)

Gyros
Here is where it get bit worse. I see some major problems here:
- they have HP, thats make them completly useless for no reason. Like they are up just few seconds why cripple them by HP pool?
- where is that gloryfied fuel system? We all expected something like Revenant energy bar or something where will gyros share fuel and stuff. Why do you even bother name that fuel just say ‘it will stay up for 15s’.
Lets talk about particular Gyros:

Medic Gyro - Basicly dont see any reason why take this over Healing Turret. Low heal, high cd, no condi removing. Toolbelt waterfield well nothing what we havent elsewhere.
Bulwark Gyro - This one would be pretty good without that HP pool. Like fantastic one especialy to WvW. HP pool makes it just meh. Toolbelt is quite good just cd is bit too long 15s will be that perfect spot
Blast Gyro - It looks pretty good but cant imagine take it over some kit. Toolbelt. This one deserve aoe stunbreak aswell.
Shredder Gyro - This one I like most and I definetly see this in my dung build. Problem is again HP pool. It will be go down on 2 hits. Tool belt is also pretty decent maby it should be bit longer.
Purge Gyro - Probably worst Gyro. Clunky and do almost nothing. Toolbelts is also just meh
Sneak Gyro - Mobs attack this Gyro so it useless for pve. Ofc HP pool is another donwside. Toolbelt is great.

Traits:
All traits in this spec are just .. mediocre I dont see nothing really cool here. They are pretty ok but just unnecessary and some should be totaly replaced by something cooler.

Minors - they are ok I guess just dont see any point to have cd on functional gyro especialy for finishing.

Shoking Speed - It would be great if not icd. This way its just meh
Stabilization Core - Good one
Recovery Matrix - Protection on heal isnt bad but it could be a bit cooler what about resistance instead?

Rapid Regeneration - Great one
Exper Examination - Also nice one
Mass Momentum - And coolest one but again why only self? Where is better group support we still asking about?

Adaptive Armor - Very nice defensive one. Condi defense should stack up too imo.
Final Salvo - This one is just meh. Good for adept but not grandmaster
Perfectly Weighted - Unnecessary icd. Sould also reduce hammer recharges.

My exact thoughts. Gyros with CD that only starts after it dies, has HP, can be crit and conditioned. Outside of SPvP they are useless.

I do hope that the elite Gyro acts somewhat like Rangers pets in PvE – Hostile mobs don’t attack the pets until attacked.
If not then it’s completely useless. Not to mention not ideal to begin with when stealthing past trash mobs – the Gyro as shown in the PoI had a latency in movement and only followed behind the Engineer – preventing the whole group’s movement by having to stop to let it catch up or risk loosing that stealth pulse.
Stealth stacking and Elixir S would be a better choice at any rate.

Traits are not very offensive in PvE – bit of weakness and might when you gain stability which is useless unless you use FT with Juggernaut. Rest are super speed access, more healing when you have speed and damage mitigation. I don’t see how I will ever choose this over Firearms/Inventions/Alchemy/Tools. Which would mean missing out on using Hammer. Even the defensive trait line Inventions has better DPS with the bunker down GM trait as well as nice defensive traits.

Overall very disappointing elite spec for me. Anet sure seemed to put so much value into this ‘Super speed’ to make it look like a big kittening deal and that’s just so pathetic.

Obviously this build was not made for actual PvE, but the dev was saying stuff about raids, so maybe we can hope this spec can be useful there

If Adaptive Defense stacked the -condi damage it’d be blatantly overpowered, unless of course you mean having it stack with -4% up to 5 times to get a max of 20%, which would still be overall weaker than its current form. Also it shouldn’t outdo corrupter’s fervor on necromancer for its role.

From a pvp point of you I can see the traits as being quite strong. Just take the “meta” soldier elixir build, and drop tools or explosives for scrapper, and pick up the hammer if you want. The traits and function gyro are great pvp utility. I’m not entirely sure if the hammer will outdo rifle though, just because the rifle CC and lockdown ability and burst is so strong, and with nades, we’re not that deficient in cleave for teamfights.

Also certain streamers think that the swiftness/super speed regen traits could revive the cele builds, although grenadier’s velocity boost being locked in explosives, a terrble traitline, will be an obstacle no matter what.

Krysard.1364:

Obviously this build was not made for actual PvE, but the dev was saying stuff about raids, so maybe we can hope this spec can be useful there

I know its pvp oriented but still:-) Actualy Shredder Gyro + Electro Whirl + Fire Field + Sinister build oh man condi builds in pve will become even more potent

nearlight.3064:

If Adaptive Defense stacked the -condi damage it’d be blatantly overpowered, unless of course you mean having it stack with -4% up to 5 times to get a max of 20%, which would still be overall weaker than its current form. Also it shouldn’t outdo corrupter’s fervor on necromancer for its role.

From a pvp point of you I can see the traits as being quite strong. Just take the “meta” soldier elixir build, and drop tools or explosives for scrapper, and pick up the hammer if you want. The traits and function gyro are great pvp utility. I’m not entirely sure if the hammer will outdo rifle though, just because the rifle CC and lockdown ability and burst is so strong, and with nades, we’re not that deficient in cleave for teamfights.

Also certain streamers think that the swiftness/super speed regen traits could revive the cele builds, although grenadier’s velocity boost being locked in explosives, a terrble traitline, will be an obstacle no matter what.

Sure not stack it up to 100% ofc but 50% will be just ok for that. In PvP I see now numerous posibilities from modyfying current builds up to melee SD:-)

nearlight.3064:

If Adaptive Defense stacked the -condi damage it’d be blatantly overpowered, unless of course you mean having it stack with -4% up to 5 times to get a max of 20%, which would still be overall weaker than its current form. Also it shouldn’t outdo corrupter’s fervor on necromancer for its role.

I read it as giving “take 20% less damage from conditions” as a permanent effect, then a conditional stacking Toughness buff as a totally separate effect. But I could be wrong, since I’ve only read the Dulfy summary and not watched the video.

tobascodagama.2961:

nearlight.3064:

If Adaptive Defense stacked the -condi damage it’d be blatantly overpowered, unless of course you mean having it stack with -4% up to 5 times to get a max of 20%, which would still be overall weaker than its current form. Also it shouldn’t outdo corrupter’s fervor on necromancer for its role.

I read it as giving “take 20% less damage from conditions” as a permanent effect, then a conditional stacking Toughness buff as a totally separate effect. But I could be wrong, since I’ve only read the Dulfy summary and not watched the video.

Thats exactly how it works, but any condition damage reduction greater than 20% would be totally unfair for a class that has a condition damage weakness.

Plus I think the best GM trait will be final salvo, since the super speed regen trait could allow cele builds to actually have sustain again, which is their biggest flaw in the current meta.

Hammer is very good.

Gyros are lackluster but one or two might see some play. Stealth seemed nice, also the knockback but propably not worth the slot, rest seemed bad.

Traits seem okay and on slightly higher power level than average engi traits. The regen on superspeed/swiftness trait seemed incredibly good and kind of justifies the other superspeed traits. However no other trait seemed that amazing, guess the toughness GM makes Marauder relatively tanky.

Builds will propably use hammer, always the regen master trait and most of the time the toughness grandmaster trait. Maybe 1 or 2 Gyros might see play but I doubt ever more than 1 per build. Still think bomb kit is kind of nice with the hammer and propably mortar to have something for ranged and to tripple leap the water field (not sure if healing turret field is long enough).

I missed the stream and only saw the tooltips.

First i was lukewarm around it, some of the gyros could be pretty powerful i supposed. Then i noticed the 30(!) second cool down on our already highly niched mechanic (which in turn puts a cooldown on the traits interacting with it.)
Its a case of “You Had One Jobb”, it really needs to be excellent and available if rezzing and stomping is all it does (considering its still a npc that can be killed and CCd). If it takes this long for the devs to realize that maybe not having a cooldown on a “every x crit slows your enemy” is a bad idea you would have thought they wouldn’t slap cooldowns on things that are already limited in other ways. For example super speed does not stack in duration and you either sacrifice drones with a grandmaster (which already gives you non stacking super speed) or use your rather long recharging lightning field on hammer. So why slap on a 10 second cooldown on the leaps and blasts to 3 sec super speed? Oh but i forgot we had thermobaric detonation and medical dispersion field so maybe thats our thing.

And then i realized the cooldown on the drones starts when they are destroyed.

So we still got hammer i suppose (which is awesome don’t get me wrong).

But even if the cooldown started when you spawn the darned things its 50%ish uptime on most of them, and that’s if they are not destroyed! They work like longer recharging but fancier phantasms so let them share the ability to start recharging immediately.

And that might when under stability trait? Okay if you combine if with strength and juggernaut camp, but otherwise how much might is this, even with the grandmaster stability? The traits this trait is competing with are very goood.

Oh and i find the increased stun duration odd, we got loads of launches and knockdowns but rarely any stuns that could synergize with this. We got the thunderclap but is 1/4th of a second longer stun really that impressive? I suppose most of the power lies in stacking the reducing effect together with melandru.

Okay enough ranting for now.

But don’t overdo the double dipping in duration, cooldown and healthbar please. Its called burning the candle at both ends, and with such a limited testing time left it does not look good.

I actually think with hammer you really want pack runes because what other fury source is there?

Rozbuska.5263:

Perfectly Weighted - Unnecessary icd. Sould also reduce hammer recharges.

+1 on this needing to reduce hammer recharge. Removing the ICD doesn’t make this trait too OP either IMO. It’s not like Engineers have three dodges.

As is, I think it’s probably going to lose out to Adaptive Armor more times than not. With at least the cooldown reduction added, I would consider this over AA.

codesherwin.9346:

Rozbuska.5263:

Perfectly Weighted - Unnecessary icd. Sould also reduce hammer recharges.

+1 on this needing to reduce hammer recharge. Removing the ICD doesn’t make this trait too OP either IMO. It’s not like Engineers have three dodges.

As is, I think it’s probably going to lose out to Adaptive Armor more times than not. With at least the cooldown reduction added, I would consider this over AA.

Surprise! A dodge trait with a cooldown!

I’m going to keep saying it until they change it. Dodge traits should never have a cooldown. If you want to blow your endurance to use dodge effects instead of avoiding damage you should be able to make that choice.

EDIT: On further review I see this works on any evade not just dodges. Engi only has the one skill that applies evade, but I can still see how this would quickly become out of control (Dodging Rapid Fire for example). I thought it was on the use of a dodge, not on evade. This should definitely have an ICD.

So technically this is not a “dodge” trait but an “evade” trait. Big difference to me, but I still maintain all “dodge” traits should not have a cooldown!

My first impressions were that the hammer is super cool and great, but … well … the gyros are (except for bulwark) EXTREMLY underwhelming and their toolbelts are even worse trash …

They are never ever gonna replace the healing turret in any situation, nor are they ever gonna replace a kit. I mean:

• combine the dmg gyro + the cleansing gyro = elixier gun
• combine the cleansing gyro + the healing gyro = healing turret
• …

It makes NO SENSE to pick them whatsoever… a sad day for us engis.

The traits are pretty low too. No overall damage modifier makes this whole traitline lackluster. But that’s not all: the existing traits are just so small and have tiny impacts on the gameplay. There is no fun and no love in them. I’m very very disappointed by the traits VERY … :<

greez :<

The master tier minor trait needs to increase the function gyro’s stomp/res speed if it’s locked behind a 30s cd. Already forced to sacrifice the adept trait to guarantee a safe stomp.

They did not even show function gyro. This means to me that “Elite Specializations” are practically an afterthought. The one class mechanic. With a weak 750 range and 30 second cooldown and they didn’t even show it. The most inportant thing I wanted to see. The most controversial issue with Scrapper right now. That offers nothin in PVE. That requires someone to be around you downed in order to use.

I agree with those above. These gyros will get annihilated unless they have a near legendary health pool. They have short duration coupled with weak pulsing and a health pool?

I guess ANet does not realize that Elite Specialization is the most important thing in this expansion. You, the player, experience the game as a class. Elite specialization is supposed to change your perspective on how you experience tour class. Almost every other class got trait line internal Synergy. But Engineer? “You can see there is lots of synergy” WITH OTHER TRAIT LINES. They barely showed the internal synergies. A swiftness to health trait with no Elite Spec internal way to gain switftness outside of lightning fields.

Having not tested it yet, this spec makes me almost sorry I believed. The traits are awkward. Gyros are awkward. This is one of the Elite Specs that was shown at HoT reveal. It baffles me that it is unfinished and looks awkward at this stage.

They should appoint Robert Gee head of class development…. This POI really ruined my day.

Edit: oh an 25 seconds is not a low cooldwon. I thought at least the toolbelts would be short CD but they are long enough to not have serious impact.

This scrapper is completely disappointing to me.. it needs a LOT of work… and the saddest part is we probably won’t get any love since HoT comes out in just a few weeks…

Way to go ANET!!! wait until the last possible moment to reveal something major… now there isnt enough time to take in our feedback and make all the changes this class desperately needs…

Look at Roy and how much feedback he was able to consider and work from with the Revenant!!! .. Look at how wonderful the Rev is turning out thanks to a Dev that listens to feedback and gets the time to actually do something about it…

/HeavySigh …. Am I being too harsh? I really dont think I am…

No you’re not – the whole gyro thing is a huge disappointment …

The gyros will need reworking but I am more than pleased with the way the Hammer looks. It’s much better than the Dragon Hunter’s Longbow, the other class I am thinking for playing possibly.

I will have to play around with it, hopefully the next beta weekend isn’t too far off. What I am thinking currently though is:

(Hammer) : (Healing Turret) – (Tool Kit) (Elixir Gun) (Rocket Boots) – (Mortar)
—-
Tools
Alchemy
Scrapper
—-
Sigil of Energy / Sigil of Doom
Runes of Strength
Celestial Amulet

And have it be a sort of lock down/ healer/ bruiser. Then again I don’t know how well that will work.

I agree with much of this. The hammer sounds really cool. Sustained direct damage melee weapon is very welcome on Engi, and all of the hammer skills seem to work with this. It has defense, mobility, and CC all in one.

I agree that Gyros are probably not great. Utility slots are very valuable to Engi’s since we have toolbelt skills and don’t have weapon swap, and most Gyro’s are very situational. Combined with the fact that their cooldowns are longish (25-30 seconds) and don’t start until the Gyro is destroyed, and I would be very hesitant to use even one of them (in PvP and WvW, the game modes I play). And Medic Gyro seems exceptionally bad, not just in comparison to Healing Turret (probably the best heal in the game), but also in comparison to every other Engi heal. Even the toolbelts for Gyros are mostly situational and also have long-ish cooldowns.

Stealth Gyro is an exception though – that one sounds awesome.

Overall I look forward to Scrapper, but it does sound like the Gyros themselves need some work to be worth a utility slot.

Oh and lots of instacast…. Not one stunbreaker…. So a pvp designed spec with no internal stunbreaking…… Again we do not learn our lessons.

Gyros seems to be a mix of ones that would suit a Range combat style and a Melee combat style.

It is the matter of choosing the ones that would suit the style.

They don’t expect players to stick to only the Gyros due to how well the Hammer skills works with Engi’s other skill that provide combo fields.

It also appears they’re not expect to last long on the field and are more situational in both PvP and PvE.

The Hammer skills are what really makes the Scrapper shine in the end due to the crazy charging in your face madness it provides and in a group fight and dungeons there is plenty of combo fields to go crazy with the Hammer skill.

I think Scrapper is in an AMAZING place considering it hasnt had a BWE. once we get our hands on it with some feedback…woooooo

other than hammer3 looking good, everything seems meh.

Azure.8670:

I think Scrapper is in an AMAZING place considering it hasnt had a BWE. once we get our hands on it with some feedback…woooooo

Looking at that how often, devs looking at engineer feedback, and how long it takes them to fix things then I wouldn’t be so hyped about it.
Keep in mind that scrapper will be available only during 1 beta weekend (unless they will do 4th BW), and will be sharing it time with Druid (this same team is working on both specialisations, or at least is coordinated by this same guy).

NiBlack.3149:

Azure.8670:

I think Scrapper is in an AMAZING place considering it hasnt had a BWE. once we get our hands on it with some feedback…woooooo

Looking at that how often, devs looking at engineer feedback, and how long it takes them to fix things then I wouldn’t be so hyped about it.
Keep in mind that scrapper will be available only during 1 beta weekend (unless they will do 4th BW), and will be sharing it time with Druid (this same team is working on both specialisations, or at least is coordinated by this same guy).

necro has been shunned far harder and worse than the engi can dare claim, and BWE did wonders for reaper, so I have faith

Voramoz.6790:

Oh and lots of instacast…. Not one stunbreaker…. So a pvp designed spec with no internal stunbreaking…… Again we do not learn our lessons.

The most broken trait of the reveal goes well with slick shoes though. Those 5 seconds Super Speed on 25 (?) second cooldown heal like 2.5k alone.

hello my Chezh frand, nice feetback. Agree on most…sadly..
thought about traits – we shall see the synergy in future to tell.

This is the engi forums right? So why does everyone here only consider the gyro itself in a vacuum instead of also ALWAYS considering the toolbelt skill? Those skills look pretty kitten powerful for the most part.

And don’t forget, you can explode the giro for some superspeed and an AOE daze; It is not like they are Necro minions that need to be up and running at all times or your build is completely useless.

Let’s take the bulwark Gyro. Should propably have more HP, no doubt about that, and every single destructable “minion” (except maybe mesmer illusions/phantasms) should have AOE damage reduction. But that bulwark gyro basically does what “Blood Bond” or “Rise” do for Necro, but actually absorb damage from allies aswell. Then you have a 6s reflect bubble as a toolbelt to defend yourself and the gyro against ranged attacks, and if they come into melee to get around that you explode the gyro for the daze and then proceed to chain cc them to death.

TL;DR : Always look at the whole package, not at one small part of it.

If we are talking about toolbelt skills, most of them looks pretty nice. With the exception of Bypass Coating and Chemical Field. They both feels like filler traits.

I don’t think any of the utility gyros bring anything worth taking over current utility skills. Some of them might be nice, but would anyone take them over Toolkit, Elixir S, grenade kit, or similar skills? Would you trust one of your pressious utility slots to an AI?

Have a few ideas for fun, troll-ish builds, but hugely skeptical this will EVER replace the current pvp meta. Being locked to a melee role doesn’t seem viable, even with all the regen potential. Pug vs Pug sure, it may shine. But I’m not convinced it will hold under coordinated/constant pressure, and a disadvantage of being locked melee is that while you are pressured you are essentially offering little to no counter damage to appropriate and vulnerable targets while you kite. WvW and PvE? I don’t think this specialization was created with those in mind. Unless they have done some stupid cheese mechanics in the “raids” that force you to spec a certain way for a certain encounter.

Hatter.8159:

Have a few ideas for fun, troll-ish builds, but hugely skeptical this will EVER replace the current pvp meta. Being locked to a melee role doesn’t seem viable, even with all the regen potential. Pug vs Pug sure, it may shine. But I’m not convinced it will hold under coordinated/constant pressure, and a disadvantage of being locked melee is that while you are pressured you are essentially offering little to no counter damage to appropriate and vulnerable targets while you kite. WvW and PvE? I don’t think this specialization was created with those in mind. Unless they have done some stupid cheese mechanics in the “raids” that force you to spec a certain way for a certain encounter.

I think you will either run grenades or mortar with it for those ranged moments. Both have decent power scaling. Actually mortar seems best due to the fields. With grenades I would propably stick to a ranged playstyle in general.

Isn’t the Purge bot kinda nice though? I just read Dulfy’s summary and I might have missed some details, but it cleanses 2 conditions AoE every 3 seconds for total of 5 pulses. Seems like pretty solid condition removal for me.

Not AoE. It checks for targets in its AoE, moves to one target and cleanses 2 condis. This every 3 seconds.

Rym.1469:

Isn’t the Purge bot kinda nice though? I just read Dulfy’s summary and I might have missed some details, but it cleanses 2 conditions AoE every 3 seconds for total of 5 pulses. Seems like pretty solid condition removal for me.

mby but will it cleans3e condis from you or from antoher gyro?) or so…quiet not sure about it’s mechanics , they said it flyies arround and cleanses on thsoe who has condis and so on.

Azure.8670:

necro has been shunned far harder and worse than the engi can dare claim, and BWE did wonders for reaper, so I have faith

^this – that’s why I do not cry … yet :<

The spec needs a stun break, some way to apply fury. The GM hammer trait should reduce cool downs on the bots while you have super speed and hammer equiped.

The bots need more hp or protection when summoned in the traits somewhere.

I just realized with all the “internal trait line synergy” Scrapper cannot blast lightning fields. Lol. So the normal way you get swiftness from a lightning field, blast, they totally forgot. Every self destruct gyro should blast the field. I’m getting angrier by the second Anet.
And yes I realize there is a leap trait for swiftness and superspeed. But with all the lightning fields they should be able, WITHOUT like a turret or big ole bomb, to blast a lightning field for swiftness. What an annoying oversight.

Voramoz.6790:

I just realized with all the “internal trait line synergy” Scrapper cannot blast lightning fields. Lol. So the normal way you get swiftness from a lightning field, blast, they totally forgot. Every self destruct gyro should blast the field. I’m getting angrier by the second Anet.
And yes I realize there is a leap trait for swiftness and superspeed. But with all the lightning fields they should be able, WITHOUT like a turret or big ole bomb, to blast a lightning field for swiftness. What a pathetic oversight.

That’s really strange. We didn’t get a single blast finisher with this elite spec. I really mean it, even the explosive gyroscope doesn’t give an blast finisher?

I had hope for the trait soothing detonations, because I thought we would get some more spammable blast finishers to get some heal back. But we didn’t.

Gyros with hitpoints of about 10-15K (you can see it in the Video) will melt in WvW raiding and GvG, as i expected they are useless compared to kits. Hammer is ok.

Dojo.1867:

Not AoE. It checks for targets in its AoE, moves to one target and cleanses 2 condis. This every 3 seconds.

If it can, cause it will be dying on its way to the ally

All Gyros need to be invulnerable, but cc’able. Short duration for mediocre effects and CD only starts after it dies – If all this stays the same, then it needs to have invulnerability.

medic gyro could be interesting on a pve build tough with the water field and 3-4 blast finishers in a row as well as the healing pulses which give you constant protection with the trait

^Healing turret heals more, heals in a bigger area, heals faster(burst), clears condis, got 2 water fields on a shorter recharge, is not exposed and destructible if you pick it up or explode it (yes the skill itself includes a blast finisher as opposed to the gyro) and i don’t think the protection trait pulses when you have the gyro out, only when you use it (meaning on summon/detonate) like our other “on heal” effects and thus healing turret, elixir or medkit would be more ideal.

I think a lot of stuff on the scrapper is better if you do not use gyros necessarily.

I never expected it to rival healing turret, but can it at least not look like a joke compared to any of our heals?

Haralin.1473:

Gyros with hitpoints of about 10-15K (you can see it in the Video) will melt in WvW raiding and GvG, as i expected they are useless compared to kits. Hammer is ok.

only bulwark

Best way how to start fixing gyros is invulnerability. Ofc they still should be interruptable.

Rozbuska.5263:

Best way how to start fixing gyros is invulnerability. Ofc they still should be interruptable.

+1 make gyros immune to damage and vulnerable to cc.

I really liked it.
It needs tweaking but I thought they were cool. Idk about the absorption thing; it seems to me that making them absorb too much damage is going to make them OP in spvp.

Regardless I’m really looking forward to this.

guildabd.6529:

Rozbuska.5263:

Best way how to start fixing gyros is invulnerability. Ofc they still should be interruptable.

+1 make gyros immune to damage and vulnerable to cc.

That would be simply too much and leaving enemies without counterplay. But different resistances would be great, for example:

• bulwark uncrittable
• cleansing gyro immune to conditions
• whirl gyro to have perma stability
• heal gyro to regen himself too
• only the explosive damage gyro should be vulnerable to attacks, yet it needs different buffs, mainly CD lowered to 20 sec after spawn.

Does anybody know what happens when you have more than one engineer with absorption gyro up? Whose gyro takes damage? Can you just chain multiple engi absorption gyros for a long damage reduction?