Guild Wars 2

Get rid of Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder and replace them with something else.

Make Precise Sights 6s vuln
Make Sharpshooter 6s bleed

FT is now best might and vuln stacker and about 10% behind bomb DPS
Bomb is now highest DPS but crap for vuln
Grenades are now right in between

Game fixed

So… you want one of the least popular class in PVE, dungeon, and WvW to be even more unpopular?

Those nerfs are completely unnecessary (they’re not even strong trait to begin with", and you want to ruin the engineer’s value even more?

Sure, you can make sharpnel 6s bleed, but in return, make the proc chance 50% instead. That’s only fair. Will actually improve Eng’s condition spec’s burst capability.

I see no logic in removing Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder. Nor can I see where the OP offers any. They are both good traits that benefit multiple skill.

They benefit exactly one skill and that’s grenades. My changes would allow all the weapons to have their own uses rather than having grenades be the top dps weapon that also happens to stack insane amounts of bleed and vuln.

Um, not, they very factually benefit mines and bombs as well.

Yeah, I have to agree that this is a pretty bad suggestion IMO.

On the face of it this looks pretty silly, but GK I know you have a good grasp on the Engi and I would be interested in hearing what you are replacing these traits with before I form an opinion. Losing our vuln stacking is a pretty big blow. I don’t buy the “profession that is least popular in PvE” thing, but removing something we are unequivocally the best at doesn’t seem wise.

I like your end goal of balancing the kits more, but I don’t know why you’re happy to simply nerf GK and introduce a new heirarchy. I feel what you should be trying to do with this proposed change is make Bombs best at something, FT best at something (stacking might doesn’t count if it doesn’t even mean more damage overall) and Grenades best at something.

I like it but bleed stacking builds are already powerfull in PvP, so your change would buff them even more.

Adamantium.3682:

On the face of it this looks pretty silly, but GK I know you have a good grasp on the Engi and I would be interested in hearing what you are replacing these traits with before I form an opinion. Losing our vuln stacking is a pretty big blow. I don’t buy the “profession that is least popular in PvE” thing, but removing something we are unequivocally the best at doesn’t seem wise.

I like your end goal of balancing the kits more, but I don’t know why you’re happy to simply nerf GK and introduce a new heirarchy. I feel what you should be trying to do with this proposed change is make Bombs best at something, FT best at something (stacking might doesn’t count if it doesn’t even mean more damage overall) and Grenades best at something.

The problem with Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder right now is that they give massive amounts of bleed and vuln stacking but only when used with grenades. That means that the engineer niche is currently vuln and something like 75% of it comes from a single trait that really only affects one weapon only.

The change I am proposing is to buff Precise Sights, which works with everything to have an overall vuln duration high enough to comfortably sustain about 12 vuln stacks with a flamethrower without any extra condition duration, which I think is quite reasonable (you could tweak the duration if you think 12 stacks really isn’t enough, i.e. 8s vuln would get you 15 stacks). Similarly, Sharpshooter would go up to about 8 stacks of bleed sustained on the FT which would buff the damage enough to make it competitive.

By comparison, grenade damage would go down slightly and the vuln stacking would drop to a much more reasonable 9 or so stacks. It would still deal more overall damage than the FT and of course it would do so at range, so there’s still incentive to use it. It would also drop the grenade’s max potential damage below the bomb’s, which is again reasonable, so now bombs, which have a crap attack rate and thus bad vuln stacking. It would, as a side bonus, help prevent engie DPS from getting out of control with all the buffs they’re getting lately; right now max DPS with a perfect rotation is approaching staff ele levels.

So that leaves us with the following roles for the following weapons:

Grenades: Balanced vuln stacking and damage output (previously: best at everything)
FT: Strongest vuln stacking, lowest DPS by a small margin (previously: worst at everything)
Bombs: Strongest raw DPS, bad vuln stacking (previously: okay but no reason to use over grenades)

I found a flaw in your way of thinking:
To make granades viable, you’re forced to put 6 trait points for them and basically all 3 choices in that single tree are granade-related.
Now to make Sharpshooter trigger, your critical chance must be pretty high (so either power build with high crits on condi rabid).
Sharpshooter isn’t strong itself, cause it doesn’t affect any build – and that’s what you complain on with traited granades – that it as well doesn’t affect any build.

Granades make it up with bleed and vul stacks, while eg. bombs can maintain perma burn and higher damage.

I don’t want to start that these kind of changes shouldn’t be ballanced over PvE. Flamethrower will never be anywhere near as viable for WvW as bombs or granades are. That being said, it’s no reason to nerf both of them.
Likely granades for small scale wouldn’t be as viable without traits (and builds with high crit chance) written above as they are now.

Edit: On a side note, why whole hordes are complaining about granades. Was there anywhere topic in some forum saying to constantly complain about them to make them AA/AT faceroll for noobies and nerf for WvW just to make beloved FT more viable in 2 months?

Personally, I think the simplest solution to fix grenades (on the assumption that the rest of the profession is buffed enough that it no longer needs internally OP grenades to be externally viable) is to simply make grenades thrown singly rather than in pairs and triples. Being able to throw multiple grenades accurately and simultaneously with one hand tests suspension of disbelief, and what makes Steel-Packed and Shrapnel so powerful with grenades is that you’re getting three procs with every attack.

Get rid of the silly multiple-throws, rebalance Grenadier accordingly (ideally making it less of a must-have for grenade engineers while still worthy of being a grandmaster trait), and Shrapnel and Steel-Packed will probably be fine. If anything, they might even need to be buffed.

I don’t really like the idea of nerfing grenades, again. Bombs are already in a very good place and FT is getting buffed, and you want to nerf grenades?

I’d like to point out there is a thread where people claim granades are too hard to use and that’s the reason why they don’t use them.
I’m sure nerfs will help bring more players into granades.
If it was actually OP in comparsion to other kits then people would actually bother learning how to use it.

But well, seems reason is not welcome in this type of threads.

They are – internally, compared to other kits – OP. They’re just so awkward to use that many people are willing to give up on a bit of power in order to actually be having fun when they play.

(Not to say that grenades can’t be fun, but different people find their fun in different ways. I find grenades and bombs both to be boring myself, but their effectiveness cannot be denied.)

That said, you’ll note the internal distinction there. Grenades aren’t that powerful compared to what other professions have, the problem is that most of the engineer’s alternatives don’t measure up. It might turn out that the answer is not to nerf grenades but to buff other things – which ArenaNet is already discussing doing.

I still think being able to throw grenades by the handful, with reasonable accuracy, further than a rifle can shoot is silly, though.

grenades are only “the best at everything” because pve ai sucks hard and its really easy to predict the lead you need to hit every time. taking away a lot of the free damage you have in pve and putting it on a skillshot free kit doesnt seem like a very good way to keep engi at a high skill ceiling.

but yes, shrapnel does about as much damage as IP… to multiple targets. kind of op for an adept trait, but the rng, smallish niche, and 4 move syndrome keep it down.

grenades 2 prolly needs to be looked at as well.

draxynnic.3719:

They are – internally, compared to other kits – OP. They’re just so awkward to use that many people are willing to give up on a bit of power in order to actually be having fun when they play.

(Not to say that grenades can’t be fun, but different people find their fun in different ways. I find grenades and bombs both to be boring myself, but their effectiveness cannot be denied.)

That said, you’ll note the internal distinction there. Grenades aren’t that powerful compared to what other professions have, the problem is that most of the engineer’s alternatives don’t measure up. It might turn out that the answer is not to nerf grenades but to buff other things – which ArenaNet is already discussing doing.

I still think being able to throw grenades by the handful, with reasonable accuracy, further than a rifle can shoot is silly, though.

I agree (assuming granades are stronger) that buffing other kits instead of nerfing leading one would be the answer.
What people don’t realize is that bombs increase survivability (immobilize, blind and stealth, no need to waste that many trait points, ability to throw bombs on your feet while running away, possibility of traiting them to heal you) and granades don’t. Else it’s PvE with ideology “the faster you kill enemy, the less damage he will deal to you”.
It really would be unfair if eg. bombs were dealing exact same damage as granades while offering you crazyly big AoE, less aiming and more survivability.
For WvW my survivability is waaay higher with bombs than granades.

And don’t expect real life logic in games. We’ve got burn underwater and…. well, everything has it’s own logic I guess…

Lert.6287:

I found a flaw in your way of thinking:
To make granades viable, you’re forced to put 6 trait points for them and basically all 3 choices in that single tree are granade-related.

I have to agree with this.

The other thing is OP, are suggesting getting rid of Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder and replace them with something else, yet you offer nothing in terms of what to replace them with. It is hard for anyone to get behind your suggestions because your not offering any constructive ideas on what you want to do with these two traits. All you have done is suggest changing them, with out suggesting how, or removing them, then you drop the thought there and jump to buffing two other traits.

One option I would like to see is to have autodefence bomb dispenser changed so that when it drops a smoke bomb, that the smoke bomb it drops would not have the same delay as the regular smoke bomb does. As I see it, the delay lowers the value of this trait greatly.

Smoke bomb is useless without giving you 1s stability, most of the time the skill that cause the bomb to drop also can easily make you fly or run away from the bomb you just dropped, how AMAZING.

Here’s three reasons why this is a bad idea:

1. it would make a high crit rate mandatory for condi grenade builds (no more dire or carrion), thus reducing build diversity for engineers
2. it would remove (most of) engineer’s vulnerability and bleed application to world bosses (no crits)
3. it would make grenades by far the weakest option for engineers in PvE (heavy trait investment needed, attack range beyond ~400 units is not needed there) thus again reducing build diversity

In my opinion after the buff to FT, the kits will all have very comparable damage while serving different purposes:

FT: low cooldown cc and blast finisher
BK: best untraited damage (fits into almost any spec), combo fields, ae-permaburn
GK: vulnerability, range, conditions, heavy trait investment mandatory

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The game should be balanced according to PvP! Not PvE! Well ideally the game should split up abilities for each game mode like GW1 but it doesn’t so poo! In PvE, anything and everything can be used and you can still achieve success! In PvP, using suboptimal builds will usually end in a loss! Of course when you talk about speed clearing PvE then generally there is one build that is always better than the others! In the Engineer’s case it is Grenades just like Warriors use greatswords and axes over maces and shields! Nerfing Shrapnel and Steel Packed Powder just hurts one of the few viable builds Engineers have in PvP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

The game should be balanced according to PvP! Not PvE! Well ideally the game should split up abilities for each game mode like GW1 but it doesn’t so poo! In PvE, anything and everything can be used and you can still achieve success! In PvP, using suboptimal builds will usually end in a loss! Of course when you talk about speed clearing PvE then generally there is one build that is always better than the others! In the Engineer’s case it is Grenades just like Warriors use greatswords and axes over maces and shields! Nerfing Shrapnel and Steel Packed Powder just hurts one of the few viable builds Engineers have in PvP!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I could flip that around and say that the game should be balanced about PvE because it’s an MMO and furthermore the PvP in GW2 is crap to begin with. Regardless PvE is where my expertise is so that’s what I’m going to talk about here.

Ultimately in PvE it comes down to:

1) Engineers deal way too much damage in aggreagte.
2) Engineers stack way more vuln than they have any business doing.

And the issue is because they’re stacking on average 5 stacks of vuln with every toss of their ranged kit. Right now engineer is pretty much the only class in the game who can get effectively maxed support contribution, range, and DPS in one weapon, which completely kills every other weapon out there. Even the omg so op warriors everyone complains about have to choose between group buffing (EA, Phalanx) and raw personal DPS.

Whether you like grenades or not is completely irrelevant. I like them too but I am trying to figure out ways to make other weapons viable. I would have done the same thing for Tool Kit and rifle primary but i couldn’t think of ways to make them viable without significant and potentially overpowered overhauls.

Why would you balance something for PvE. You can mostly just slam your head into the keyboard to kill ai. The other weapon kits are viable xcept for Ft and that’s getting buffed.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Adamantium.3682:

On the face of it this looks pretty silly, but GK I know you have a good grasp on the Engi and I would be interested in hearing what you are replacing these traits with before I form an opinion. Losing our vuln stacking is a pretty big blow. I don’t buy the “profession that is least popular in PvE” thing, but removing something we are unequivocally the best at doesn’t seem wise.

I like your end goal of balancing the kits more, but I don’t know why you’re happy to simply nerf GK and introduce a new heirarchy. I feel what you should be trying to do with this proposed change is make Bombs best at something, FT best at something (stacking might doesn’t count if it doesn’t even mean more damage overall) and Grenades best at something.

The problem with Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder right now is that they give massive amounts of bleed and vuln stacking but only when used with grenades. That means that the engineer niche is currently vuln and something like 75% of it comes from a single trait that really only affects one weapon only.

The change I am proposing is to buff Precise Sights, which works with everything to have an overall vuln duration high enough to comfortably sustain about 12 vuln stacks with a flamethrower without any extra condition duration, which I think is quite reasonable (you could tweak the duration if you think 12 stacks really isn’t enough, i.e. 8s vuln would get you 15 stacks). Similarly, Sharpshooter would go up to about 8 stacks of bleed sustained on the FT which would buff the damage enough to make it competitive.

By comparison, grenade damage would go down slightly and the vuln stacking would drop to a much more reasonable 9 or so stacks. It would still deal more overall damage than the FT and of course it would do so at range, so there’s still incentive to use it. It would also drop the grenade’s max potential damage below the bomb’s, which is again reasonable, so now bombs, which have a crap attack rate and thus bad vuln stacking. It would, as a side bonus, help prevent engie DPS from getting out of control with all the buffs they’re getting lately; right now max DPS with a perfect rotation is approaching staff ele levels.

So that leaves us with the following roles for the following weapons:

Grenades: Balanced vuln stacking and damage output (previously: best at everything)
FT: Strongest vuln stacking, lowest DPS by a small margin (previously: worst at everything)
Bombs: Strongest raw DPS, bad vuln stacking (previously: okay but no reason to use over grenades)

So basically you want to nerf the grenade and buff the bomb right?
Too bad that logic is flawed because they already serve different purpose, and having the same dps on each other will make grenade unviable.

Bomb kit has a stronger and more versitile option of condition, with long lasting AOE burning,, smoke field, fire field, KB, Confusion, and blast finisher. However grenade rely most of its condition dps from traits because it is not a very good condition kit without the trait. Also the range issue is a non issue because grenade is much harder to aim at further distance, and even if it does land, not all 3 will land if the target is consitently moving.

The trait makes condition grenade has its niche to be a viable condition weapon, or serve as a vulnerable stacking weapon, so why try to break it? If you want other kit to have some love, then BUFF other kit instead of nerfing grenade kit even more!

Aomine.5012:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Adamantium.3682:

On the face of it this looks pretty silly, but GK I know you have a good grasp on the Engi and I would be interested in hearing what you are replacing these traits with before I form an opinion. Losing our vuln stacking is a pretty big blow. I don’t buy the “profession that is least popular in PvE” thing, but removing something we are unequivocally the best at doesn’t seem wise.

I like your end goal of balancing the kits more, but I don’t know why you’re happy to simply nerf GK and introduce a new heirarchy. I feel what you should be trying to do with this proposed change is make Bombs best at something, FT best at something (stacking might doesn’t count if it doesn’t even mean more damage overall) and Grenades best at something.

The problem with Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder right now is that they give massive amounts of bleed and vuln stacking but only when used with grenades. That means that the engineer niche is currently vuln and something like 75% of it comes from a single trait that really only affects one weapon only.

The change I am proposing is to buff Precise Sights, which works with everything to have an overall vuln duration high enough to comfortably sustain about 12 vuln stacks with a flamethrower without any extra condition duration, which I think is quite reasonable (you could tweak the duration if you think 12 stacks really isn’t enough, i.e. 8s vuln would get you 15 stacks). Similarly, Sharpshooter would go up to about 8 stacks of bleed sustained on the FT which would buff the damage enough to make it competitive.

By comparison, grenade damage would go down slightly and the vuln stacking would drop to a much more reasonable 9 or so stacks. It would still deal more overall damage than the FT and of course it would do so at range, so there’s still incentive to use it. It would also drop the grenade’s max potential damage below the bomb’s, which is again reasonable, so now bombs, which have a crap attack rate and thus bad vuln stacking. It would, as a side bonus, help prevent engie DPS from getting out of control with all the buffs they’re getting lately; right now max DPS with a perfect rotation is approaching staff ele levels.

So that leaves us with the following roles for the following weapons:

Grenades: Balanced vuln stacking and damage output (previously: best at everything)
FT: Strongest vuln stacking, lowest DPS by a small margin (previously: worst at everything)
Bombs: Strongest raw DPS, bad vuln stacking (previously: okay but no reason to use over grenades)

So basically you want to nerf the grenade and buff the bomb right?
Too bad that logic is flawed because they already serve different purpose, and having the same dps on each other will make grenade unviable.

Bomb kit has a stronger and more versitile option of condition, with long lasting AOE burning,, smoke field, fire field, KB, Confusion, and blast finisher. However grenade rely most of its condition dps from traits because it is not a very good condition kit without the trait. Also the range issue is a non issue because grenade is much harder to aim at further distance, and even if it does land, not all 3 will land if the target is consitently moving.

The trait makes condition grenade has its niche to be a viable condition weapon, or serve as a vulnerable stacking weapon, so why try to break it? If you want other kit to have some love, then BUFF other kit instead of nerfing grenade kit even more!

Because that vuln is the most important thing, there’s literally no reason to take bombs for the same DPS if it means losing 20~ stacks of vuln.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Because that vuln is the most important thing, there’s literally no reason to take bombs for the same DPS if it means losing 20~ stacks of vuln.

Your math is inaccurate. The difference in vulnerability stacks between bombs and grenades is no where near 20 stacks.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Adamantium.3682:

On the face of it this looks pretty silly, but GK I know you have a good grasp on the Engi and I would be interested in hearing what you are replacing these traits with before I form an opinion. Losing our vuln stacking is a pretty big blow. I don’t buy the “profession that is least popular in PvE” thing, but removing something we are unequivocally the best at doesn’t seem wise.

I like your end goal of balancing the kits more, but I don’t know why you’re happy to simply nerf GK and introduce a new heirarchy. I feel what you should be trying to do with this proposed change is make Bombs best at something, FT best at something (stacking might doesn’t count if it doesn’t even mean more damage overall) and Grenades best at something.

The problem with Shrapnel and Steel-Packed Powder right now is that they give massive amounts of bleed and vuln stacking but only when used with grenades. That means that the engineer niche is currently vuln and something like 75% of it comes from a single trait that really only affects one weapon only.

The change I am proposing is to buff Precise Sights, which works with everything to have an overall vuln duration high enough to comfortably sustain about 12 vuln stacks with a flamethrower without any extra condition duration, which I think is quite reasonable (you could tweak the duration if you think 12 stacks really isn’t enough, i.e. 8s vuln would get you 15 stacks). Similarly, Sharpshooter would go up to about 8 stacks of bleed sustained on the FT which would buff the damage enough to make it competitive.

By comparison, grenade damage would go down slightly and the vuln stacking would drop to a much more reasonable 9 or so stacks. It would still deal more overall damage than the FT and of course it would do so at range, so there’s still incentive to use it. It would also drop the grenade’s max potential damage below the bomb’s, which is again reasonable, so now bombs, which have a crap attack rate and thus bad vuln stacking. It would, as a side bonus, help prevent engie DPS from getting out of control with all the buffs they’re getting lately; right now max DPS with a perfect rotation is approaching staff ele levels.

So that leaves us with the following roles for the following weapons:

Grenades: Balanced vuln stacking and damage output (previously: best at everything)
FT: Strongest vuln stacking, lowest DPS by a small margin (previously: worst at everything)
Bombs: Strongest raw DPS, bad vuln stacking (previously: okay but no reason to use over grenades)

I like the idea of what you’re doing, I just don’t like taking away the one thing we can do better than anyone else. If it’s not okay for us to have 25 vuln stacking like a boss, then take away the banner buffs from Warriors, might stacking from eles, etc. Every profession ideally should have something they bring to the table that they’re the best at.

I do like differentiating the roles of the DPS kits a little more like you have, but not at the cost of the only reason that “min maxers” would consider an Engi in their group. I don’t find myself in those kinds of groups, mind you, but I don’t like the idea of playing a profession that the general consensus is “you play it if you like it, otherwise it’s useless”.

To achieve the same results as you are aiming for I would reduce the damage effectiveness of the Grenade Kit. Make it a condition spamming/debuffing kit without also being great for damage espeically since you can be at range and have little to no risk. I’m thinking 10-15% behind Bombs in this order:

1. FT most damage, least utility. You not only have to be melee, but you have to aim it.
2. Bombs 10-15% behind FT but obviously more utility in the conditions and support it could bring. Also in melee, but no need to aim.
3. Grenades 10-15% behind Bombs. The best utility, vuln stacking, condition spam, safest kit. For those advantages, it pays by dealing less damage.

Shrapnel could change, roll it up into Steel Packed Powder to make explosions bleed and give vuln. Open up an Adept trait for something to help achieve this new ranking of kits.

Rather than remove steel packed powder completely, I’d change it to affect different explosives in different ways. 1 stack of vuln per grenade or small mine, 2 stacks per bomb auto or concussion bomb, 1 stack per pulse in fire/smoke bomb, 5 stacks for a large mine, 1 stack per small mine. That makes bomb kit worth using after vuln spikes or in teams that already have decent vuln application. FT still hardly applies any, but I see FT more as a best solo dps weapon, easily able to sustain good might stacks, making up for the lack of vuln. Toolkit could definitely use more vulnerability, or damage, or something; it just seems like a joke in terms of auto right now.

Adamantium.3682:

I like the idea of what you’re doing, I just don’t like taking away the one thing we can do better than anyone else. If it’s not okay for us to have 25 vuln stacking like a boss, then take away the banner buffs from Warriors, might stacking from eles, etc. Every profession ideally should have something they bring to the table that they’re the best at.

I do like differentiating the roles of the DPS kits a little more like you have, but not at the cost of the only reason that “min maxers” would consider an Engi in their group. I don’t find myself in those kinds of groups, mind you, but I don’t like the idea of playing a profession that the general consensus is “you play it if you like it, otherwise it’s useless”.

To achieve the same results as you are aiming for I would reduce the damage effectiveness of the Grenade Kit. Make it a condition spamming/debuffing kit without also being great for damage espeically since you can be at range and have little to no risk. I’m thinking 10-15% behind Bombs in this order:

1. FT most damage, least utility. You not only have to be melee, but you have to aim it.
2. Bombs 10-15% behind FT but obviously more utility in the conditions and support it could bring. Also in melee, but no need to aim.
3. Grenades 10-15% behind Bombs. The best utility, vuln stacking, condition spam, safest kit. For those advantages, it pays by dealing less damage.

Shrapnel could change, roll it up into Steel Packed Powder to make explosions bleed and give vuln. Open up an Adept trait for something to help achieve this new ranking of kits.

6 seconds on Precise Sights would enable FT to stack about 12 vuln base. That’s already a ton. It could definitely be more but I think 12 vuln from an adept trait is already plenty OP. With Veggie Pizza that’s already 17 stacks plus FT is basically already infinite might stacks with Flame Blast being a blast finisher now.

Also don’t forget that engineers can also get high vuln bursts via Jump Shot and a Sigil of Frailty can add an easy 5 stacks since both FT and Grenades are pretty much guaranteed to proc it on cooldown. They also get strong benefit from stuff like Skale Venom so I don’t think engies are really in any danger of losing their place as the vuln stacking kings even if their aggregate stacking ability goes down slightly.

You’re asking for a change that would only benefit your type of build/gameplay. Balancing or nerfing such skills is easier said then done. This isn’t a good suggestion in my opinion.

If we are to compare kits, we should also consider that grenades are basically balanced upon a grandmaster trait. It would be only logical for them to end up being more powerful than other kits – drastically more powerful, unlike the current situation, with them barely better despite the heavy costs involved.
If we want to talk about a rebalancing of said kit, we should start making the base one more balanced – it is really crappy right now – by moving some of the offense back to it. And after that, moving grenadier to a master trait (as the bonus it gives will end up being reduced). In doing so, getting a trait like steel-packed powder will come as an additional cost, unlike now (as it basically comes for free when grenadier is taken, being a grandmaster minor trait).

I would also add, though, that having those traits you mention working fine with multi-hit weapons like grenades is also one of the few good points about it being a multi-hit weapon. Remove those, and it becomes just a liability.

Unless it’s a different Guanglai Kangyi, GK has been advocating for engineer players to play grenades, advocating for non-engineer players to bring grenadiers to their dungeon groups, and reporting his own successes as a grenadier, and regarding non-Explosives engineers as scrubs (I don’t recall if he ever used that exact term, but the sentiment definitely came through at times) for over a year.

If he’s now saying that grenades are in fact too powerful – then either he’s spent a long time building up his credentials for this moment, or jealousy at a build he doesn’t use being better than the builds he does use is not his motivation.