Guild Wars 2

Slick Shoes – Nerf the duration of the oil on the ground to 1s. This will make the skill do what it was originally intended to do.

Super Speed – Nerf this cooldown back to 45 seconds again.

Gear Shield – Nerf the cooldown to 30s.

Incendiary Powder – Nerf it.

Invigorating Speed – Nerf the cooldown to 10s.

Kk thnx then engi = balanced.
bye

Just delete the class all together. In fact, I’m going to delete my engi right now due to all your obvious agony.

Nerf the Warrior’s Cleansing Ire with an ICD of 20 secs!
Nerf Warrior’s LB F1 radius, and remove the burning!
Nerf the healing coefficient of Shout heal!
Nerf Berserker Stance to -50% Condition Duration instead of immune to it.
Nerf Healing Signet passive heal!

Nerf Guardian’s Hammer 5 cd to 60 secs!
Nerf Judgement Intervention CD to 60 sec!
Nerf Mediation heal amount from the trait!

Now all classes are balance.

So are you happy now?
(Well, my ranger is happy)

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

Lol I actually agree with Slick Shoes nerf! That skill is pretty overpowdered! The single strongest lockdown ability in the game combined with one of the shortest stunbreak cooldown duration in the game that also refreshes at low health! Yeah pretty overpowdered! But the rest of the things on the list are lolz! And I’m surprised Overcharged Shot isn’t on that list! That skill single-handedly carries cele Engis!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Zefrost.3425:

Slick Shoes – Nerf the duration of the oil on the ground to 1s. This will make the skill do what it was originally intended to do.

Super Speed – Nerf this cooldown back to 45 seconds again.

Gear Shield – Nerf the cooldown to 30s.

Incendiary Powder – Nerf it.

Invigorating Speed – Nerf the cooldown to 10s.

Kk thnx then engi = balanced.
bye

None of that makes any sense. You offer no reasoning or justification for any of that.

When you propose things in this manner, you leave folks to have fun with assumptions as to why you want these unreasonable changes. One could even assume you are one of the most bottom tier players, and posted an unreasonable nerf demand for every profession. I mean your so unreasonably saly, we can literally follow your trail of salt all the way back to the warrior and necro threads.

I think the video below is what this guy really wants.

ellesee.8297:

Lol I actually agree with Slick Shoes nerf! That skill is pretty overpowdered! The single strongest lockdown ability in the game combined with one of the shortest stunbreak cooldown duration in the game that also refreshes at low health! Yeah pretty overpowdered! But the rest of the things on the list are lolz! And I’m surprised Overcharged Shot isn’t on that list! That skill single-handedly carries cele Engis!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Actually there are 6 stun breakers out there with lower cool downs and 6 with equal innate cool downs.

As well, their are weapons that do great damage whose skills also chain easily to offer longer lock downs then that.

Not to mention that they are 100% negated by stability.

Anything not a kit is arguably under powered. As you give up a space that could use a kit, in order to use one of those other skills.

ronpierce.2760:

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

This Requires it not being Obstructed all the time or shooting into the sky when the target is directly in front of you. xD

Holesale.2640:

ronpierce.2760:

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

This Requires it not being Obstructed all the time or shooting into the sky when the target is directly in front of you. xD

+1 lol

Holesale.2640:

ronpierce.2760:

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

This Requires it not being Obstructed all the time or shooting into the sky when the target is directly in front of you. xD

Granted, it does have its bugs, that doesn’t really excuse its potency. It should just be fixed, and more reliable, but also tuned down. It definitely needs its fix though.

That said, its not alone in the “doesn’t work well with any sort of terrain” group.

ronpierce.2760:

Holesale.2640:

ronpierce.2760:

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

This Requires it not being Obstructed all the time or shooting into the sky when the target is directly in front of you. xD

Granted, it does have its bugs, that doesn’t really excuse its potency. It should just be fixed, and more reliable, but also tuned down. It definitely needs its fix though.

That said, its not alone in the “doesn’t work well with any sort of terrain” group.

You realize making irrational declarations of random skills nerfs, is pointless unless you offer some form of reasonable explanation or justification?

As of now, all it appears you are doing is random crying about skills that you feel are annoying, with no logical justification beyond the fact that they annoy you, counter your build because you refuse to change your build to counter them, or you need to learn to play to counter them.

coglin.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

Holesale.2640:

ronpierce.2760:

Sort of surprised Net Shot wasn’t included in this. :P 20+% immob uptime, only 10 second cooldown AND instant. GG :P

This Requires it not being Obstructed all the time or shooting into the sky when the target is directly in front of you. xD

Granted, it does have its bugs, that doesn’t really excuse its potency. It should just be fixed, and more reliable, but also tuned down. It definitely needs its fix though.

That said, its not alone in the “doesn’t work well with any sort of terrain” group.

You realize making irrational declarations of random skills nerfs, is pointless unless you offer some form of reasonable explanation or justification?

As of now, all it appears you are doing is random crying about skills that you feel are annoying, with no logical justification beyond the fact that they annoy you, counter your build because you refuse to change your build to counter them, or you need to learn to play to counter them.

Erm, I have explained why. A ‘potential’ 20%+ up time Immob (of course you won’t land 100% but that’s any skill) low cooldown (Low risk) INSTANT immobilize, arguably one of the most potent conditions in the game is absurd. I’m not understanding how you don’t see the problem it holds… Most immobs are placed on a higher cooldown and long very notable cast times for a good reason.

Even look at things like panic strike. It’s. 2 sec immob on a longer cooldown when hitting an enemy under 50% and that’s considered a very valuable talent. The immob itself isn’t just over powered but th amount of set up and execution it allows over a fight, as immobs prevent dodge rolls you can chain to ccs such as overcharged shot or otherwise with the greatest of ease. I’m going to have to be honest, you’re over reaching to defend it by attacking me. I play with it relatively often. It’s far too potent as a skill. Please just read it…
Instant cast. 10 second cooldown. 2 second Immobilize. 1000 range (even if it’s not always best beyond 500, it still works a good deal of time beyond that. Especially against fleeing targets.)

It simply has too much set up potential too frequently and is too easy to land in a close quarters fight, which, let’s be honest, is where you end up anyways to land grenades effectively.

I am fine with all this points if I get condi removal

In his defense, all of the skills he mentioned are different levels of OP.

ellesee.8297:

Lol I actually agree with Slick Shoes nerf! That skill is pretty overpowdered! The single strongest lockdown ability in the game combined with one of the shortest stunbreak cooldown duration in the game that also refreshes at low health! Yeah pretty overpowdered! But the rest of the things on the list are lolz! And I’m surprised Overcharged Shot isn’t on that list! That skill single-handedly carries cele Engis!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Overcharge shouldn’t be on the list its a punishing knockback that can get you killed if you just so happen to have bad placement and leaves you completely open to enemy teammates. I think it is the most balanced cc in game

Nerf dis.
Nerf dat!
There are complaints for EVERY class FROM every class.

Never stops.

Novuake.2691:

Nerf dis.
Nerf dat!
There are complaints for EVERY class FROM every class.

Never stops.

Mr. Bones wild ride

Zefrost.3425:

Kk thnx then engi = balanced.
bye

Much analysis, very judgement.

ronpierce.2760:

Erm, I have explained why. A ‘potential’ 20%+ up time Immob (of course you won’t land 100% but that’s any skill) low cooldown (Low risk) INSTANT immobilize, arguably one of the most potent conditions in the game is absurd. I’m not understanding how you don’t see the problem it holds… Most immobs are placed on a higher cooldown and long very notable cast times for a good reason.

Actually no you haven’t. You simply listed what the skill does. Then appeared to incorrectly conclude others would inherently agree with you.

Out of the 40 or so immobilized in the game, there are 6 skills that have a higher immobilize up time ratio. 4 other skills that have the same up time ration. I do not see you making an uproar about those. Where does the bias come from?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flurry is double the immobilize of net shot. It is AoE. yet I look through your post history and see no complaints about it. Where does the bias against engineer come from I wonder?

ronpierce.2760:

Even look at things like panic strike. It’s. 2 sec immob on a longer cooldown when hitting an enemy under 50% and that’s considered a very valuable talent.

Wait, what? Your comparing thief traits to a MH weapon skill? You feel your argument is so weak that you have to try to use comparisons of trait to weapon skill?

Body shot, infiltrators strike, surprise shot, all offer over 50% up time of immobilize on each individual skill. The obvious level of intentional bias is, well, obvious.

ronpierce.2760:

The immob itself isn’t just over powered but th amount of set up and execution it allows over a fight, as immobs prevent dodge rolls you can chain to ccs such as overcharged shot or otherwise with the greatest of ease. I’m going to have to be honest, you’re over reaching to defend it by attacking me. I play with it relatively often. It’s far too potent as a skill. Please just read it…

Instant cast. 10 second cooldown. 2 second Immobilize. 1000 range (even if it’s not always best beyond 500, it still works a good deal of time beyond that. Especially against fleeing targets.)[/quote]

Yet the other skills with more immobilization up time are okay with you, and all of the ones of equivalent up up time are as well.

This rant, particularly this section, is appearing to be more of a story about a butt kicking, then downed when trying to run? Thief? Necro?

ronpierce.2760:

It simply has too much set up potential too frequently and is too easy to land in a close quarters fight, which, let’s be honest, is where you end up anyways to land grenades effectively.

List the immobilize skills that have no set up potential?

Looking through it, I see you went on several complaint trends in which you complained about engineer condition a while back. Now with celestial making rifle a solid weapon, you want to complain about that. Again with the bias.

I think you’re ignoring the part where I’ve been playing the Engineer coming to this conclusion. Turret Engies and Celest Rifle Engies are both two of the most absurd builds in the game. I find it hard to deny that point.

Also, there is a lot more practicality to Net Shot to Flurry. For one, it’s not used very frequently considering combustion shot is usually preferred to ensure condition removal. Additionally, Adrenaline has to be built, very rarely is it feasible to use a tier 3 flurry every 10 seconds. In fact it doest happen at all. It’s also melee with practically the worst mechanics. And warriors start with 0, net has no build up and is easily accessible.

Warriors are also nothing compared to the potency of the said above builds. The most notable warrior build (that even uses flurry) is Shoutbow, and doesn’t have even close to half the CC as engi and is hated for (possibly valid) other reasons, namely ease of play and heal potency.

Also, it’s set up potential is higher than average not because it’s an immobilize, it’s becuase its a no risk-10 second cooldown. You can set up frequently and soon again on a failed attempt. Hell a missed flurry wastes all of your adrenaline, even.

ronpierce.2760:

I think you’re ignoring the part where I’ve been playing the Engineer coming to this conclusion. Turret Engies and Celest Rifle Engies are both two of the most absurd builds in the game. I find it hard to deny that point.

Absurd? Oh I see, we are not worried about “good” or “meta” or “winning” builds. You demanding your nerfs based of how much it feels “absurd” when used against you. Got it.

ronpierce.2760:

Also, there is a lot more practicality to Net Shot to Flurry. For one, it’s not used very frequently considering combustion shot is usually preferred to ensure condition removal. Additionally, Adrenaline has to be built, very rarely is it feasible to use a tier 3 flurry every 10 seconds. In fact it doest happen at all. It’s also melee with practically the worst mechanics. And warriors start with 0, net has no build up and is easily accessible.

Practicality? I consider an AoE, that does exponentially more damage as practical. So far all have have done is toss out subjective buzz words. Then claim ranged CC with less up time as more practical then a solid damaging CC with more up time, in a game in which damage is extremely important.

Second, you go on to irrationally justify your odd explanation because you claim flurry isn’t used much? That is totally irrelevant.

You use extreme objectiveness and irrelevance as your main argument points?

ronpierce.2760:

Warriors are also nothing compared to the potency of the said above builds. The most notable warrior build (that even uses flurry) is Shoutbow, and doesn’t have even close to half the CC as engi and is hated for (possibly valid) other reasons, namely ease of play and heal potency.

And? Engineer doesn’t have half the condition cleansing potential of warrior, nor half the ability to deal with CC or stability.

Ease of play? I haven’t seen any evidence that you can make it look easy, much less claim it so in comparison to warrior or thief.

Thank you for clarifying your motive though. You show a bias in your constant description of “hate” and “annoy” as you go on to mention CC. Obviously this is about you personally disliking being CCed, and balance is irrelevant.

ronpierce.2760:

Also, it’s set up potential is higher than average not because it’s an immobilize, it’s becuase its a no risk-10 second cooldown. You can set up frequently and soon again on a failed attempt. Hell a missed flurry wastes all of your adrenaline, even.

No risk? If that is your argument, then any ranged skill in the game is “no risk”. Yet anything that keeps you in range of your targets skills is “at risk”.

There is clearly no explaining to you, you’re in hyper defensive mode. There’s no sense in explaining it to you. But I was suggesting in terms of real time use and how people actually play these builds, not napkin math in which you think flurry is somehow more problematic than netshot.

Also, it’s an “absurd” (objectively speaking) point OF these meta/winning builds.

But alas, you’re not here for discussion. You don’t want to give anything up, and that’s fine I guess. But there’s a kitten good reason Celest Rifle engi and Turrets run Rifle and not pistol/shield or pistol/pistol.

The major reasons being Overcharged Shot and Net shot. No cast time makes them incredibly easy to execute and not interruptable, and if used in close range hardly avoidable (especially following a knockdown like overcharged shot, slick shoes, a thumper turret, rocket turret, and so on).

Goodness grief… I’ve been playing more turret engi recently than Mm, just so you know. It’s quicker to fill tracks with.

ronpierce.2760:

There is clearly no explaining to you, you’re in hyper defensive mode.

You have used nothing but extremely subjective terms to argue your perspective. So instead of offering reason and logic, you attempt to place the burden on me. I am not being hyper defensive by seeing reason in a a few skills not changing. You are simply being irrationally aggressive in demanding the game changes to bend around your personal needs, instead of comparative balance.

ronpierce.2760:

There’s no sense in explaining it to you. But I was suggesting in terms of real time use and how people actually play these builds, not napkin math in which you think flurry is somehow more problematic than netshot.

Yet you used nothing but napkin math as your only actual fact in your perspective. Everything else was subjective bias on your part. you very literally and specifically used immobilize up time per skill as the only fact in your argument. Yet when it is used against your argument, all of the sudden, math is not a compelling fact point, by your own words here.

Engineers do not dominate PvE. They are not part of GWEN. They are solid in PvP, yet you do not see 3 on a team at high level. There value across the game as a whole, does not display a need for change in any of the areas mentioned.

ronpierce.2760:

Also, it’s an “absurd” (objectively speaking) point OF these meta/winning builds.

Exactly. It is “objective” not solidified evidence of a need for changes. Yet you disingenuously argue it in sentences of statement and misrepresented as fact.

ronpierce.2760:

But alas, you’re not here for discussion. You don’t want to give anything up, and that’s fine I guess. But there’s a kitten good reason Celest Rifle engi and Turrets run Rifle and not pistol/shield or pistol/pistol.

I am certainly here for discussion. You appear to have popped in here and demanded skills need a change. You never asked. You never offered a compelling argument (all your offered was subjected personal wants). You even used terms such as “up time” as your only actual supporting fact, just to reject it as reasonable when it no longer supported your argument.

ronpierce.2760:

The major reasons being Overcharged Shot and Net shot. No cast time makes them incredibly easy to execute and not interruptable, and if used in close range hardly avoidable (especially following a knockdown like overcharged shot, slick shoes, a thumper turret, rocket turret, and so on).

First off, you chose to take the perspective of demanding a need for up time nerfs. Untill now, this conversation never went in the direction of cast times or animations as far as your argument is concerned. I am in favor of both being needed. Every skill in the paragraph above can have a cast time and animation to see it coming as far as I am concerned.

That’s what I meant all along. I was suggesting it’s uptime was too high for no risk, the risk was implied as being no cast and instant, that’s why I pointed out those facts. Uptime would also drop not only as a result of a tell, but a cast time would technically add to its re-use time. In the process it could use some connection fixes and maybe even added velocity to fix some of the obstruction issues it hits.

It never got to those points of discussion because it turned hostile too fast. I said it was too good of a set up because it had all of those perks combined, and doesn’t need nerfed in every angle, but it does need some sort of counter play other than just out-ranging it or abusing it’s obstruction issues. If you improve those it does become rather too potent in its current implication.

Just for instance, as turrets. I’ve decapped far before and backup came, standing on the edge I instantly immobilized them about 200u from the point. Because they can’t dodge roll if I successfully land it, overcharge shot near the end and start my rocket turret. Unless it’s one of the few with a ccbreak+ stability, the rocket can knock them down again and shortly after I can attempt to immob again. I’ve secured so many decaps and caps by timing my ccs in order that for many builds it could be considered relatively hard to counter. Not to mention, many times those people are pretty close to read if they aren’t tanky, but not often do people send tanks to contest me. Then I still have a thumper. Which chains well with the immob too.

ronpierce.2760:

That’s what I meant all along. I was suggesting it’s uptime was too high for no risk, the risk was implied as being no cast and instant, that’s why I pointed out those facts. Uptime would also drop not only as a result of a tell, but a cast time would technically add to its re-use time. In the process it could use some connection fixes and maybe even added velocity to fix some of the obstruction issues it hits.

It was? Strange. I looked up risk, to see if I missed that definition, and didn’t see that anywhere. Your doing yourself or the debate no benefit by attempting to claim it is another players fault that you offered a poor explanation, then attempt to lay blame on them because they didn’t intuit your intent or meaning.

ronpierce.2760:

It never got to those points of discussion because it turned hostile too fast. I said it was too good of a set up because it had all of those perks combined, and doesn’t need nerfed in every angle, but it does need some sort of counter play other than just out-ranging it or abusing it’s obstruction issues. If you improve those it does become rather too potent in its current implication.

Hostile you say? Why did you get so hostile then? Certainly Your not assuming I was hostile for disagreeing with you. It doesn’t help that you both assume others can read your mind and intuit your meaning, and you assume to tel them what they meant. Approaching matters in that aspect is simply unreasonable.

As far as counter play. It has counter play. Dodge. Reflect. Light strafing and very minimal movement causes it to miss. Stun breaks. Blocks?

All that and more, yet you claim no counter play? If you want to go that route, it can easily be argued that any ranged skill in the game has no counter play.

ronpierce.2760:

Just for instance, as turrets. I’ve decapped far before and backup came, standing on the edge I instantly immobilized them about 200u from the point. Because they can’t dodge roll if I successfully land it, overcharge shot near the end and start my rocket turret. Unless it’s one of the few with a ccbreak+ stability, the rocket can knock them down again and shortly after I can attempt to immob again. I’ve secured so many decaps and caps by timing my ccs in order that for many builds it could be considered relatively hard to counter. Not to mention, many times those people are pretty close to read if they aren’t tanky, but not often do people send tanks to contest me. Then I still have a thumper. Which chains well with the immob too.

Again, changing skills based on the weakest players in the chain is unreasonable.

Why is it that you, personally, have so much difficult dealing with a turret engineer?

Zefrost.3425:

Slick Shoes – Nerf the duration of the oil on the ground to 1s. This will make the skill do what it was originally intended to do.

Super Speed – Nerf this cooldown back to 45 seconds again.

Gear Shield – Nerf the cooldown to 30s.

Incendiary Powder – Nerf it.

Invigorating Speed – Nerf the cooldown to 10s.

Kk thnx then engi = balanced.
bye

I agree with 1,2 and 3. But I think invigorating speed is fine. Would rather see a nerf to the boon vigor itself. Similar to what they did too might.

Instead of 100% extra regen could be 50% or 75%. Would reduce the survivability of almost every meta build and make some traits and skills like signet of stamina more useful.

I’m PLAYING the turret engineer. I have done various 1v3s and many more 1v2s. XD Why are you not reading what I’m saying…

Nerf mortar and gadgets! Theese are to overpowered!
Also elixir builds needs some nerf, to many players plays them!

ronpierce.2760:

I’m PLAYING the turret engineer. I have done various 1v3s and many more 1v2s. XD Why are you not reading what I’m saying…

So can you easily deal with turret engineers yourself easily, when you encounter them or do they generally defeat you or run you off?

coglin.1867:

ronpierce.2760:

I’m PLAYING the turret engineer. I have done various 1v3s and many more 1v2s. XD Why are you not reading what I’m saying…

So can you easily deal with turret engineers yourself easily, when you encounter them or do they generally defeat you or run you off?

As Turret engi myself or something else? I win most turret on turret fights because I kill the rocket then chain CC the other engi who doesn’t have as much pressure anymore and one less CC. I try to place my own in spots less likely to get focused down. Doesn’t always work but that’s what I shoot for. A lot of turret engineers don’t understand what makes themselves powerful, they just try to roll around a lot and let the turrets do the work, which seems to happen a lot, but that doesn’t mean higher potential isn’t there.

There can be a lot of fun things you can do with turret engi many don’t think about, like healing on top of a stealthed down body to Aoe interrupt rezzes, immobing the reser then overcharge shooting the downed player out of range, then focusing fire on the rezzer so they don’t or can’t try again, sometimes leading to two downed players. From that point you can just let your turrets plink them and let them bleed out, and if one is on the point overcharge shoot their body off the point and keep stalling their death. It can be wildly effective.

That is a fine scenario I guess, but it doesn’t really address my question. I guess what I was getting at, is do you feel you personally, can successfully deal with a turret engineer? If you have extreme difficulty, what profession do you have difficulty with? I guess it is probably more relevant to builds then profession, so I would like to know which ones you, personally, lack the ability to deal with a turret engineer on?

I don’t play glass, but glass does have issues with it. (Thief/mesmer) Probably a few others. Mostly because showing their face, even if I’m cced, it’s too much counter pressure. Most of my 1v2s involved at least 1 glass mostly melee character. Then I’d just kill the other in a simple 1v1 fashion. I’ve actually need both necto types struggle with me to my surprise. But that may just be bad condi necros. I don’t see enough to know for sure.

Unless you are talking about me personally. I tend to try to avoid them on my appear necro. My Mm can kill them if my pets aren’t stupid but 90% of the time literally they won’t engage properly… I avoid them as raw power unless I have very high life force to soak damage and kill the rocket. If I can manage that it’s okay, otherwise I get bounced around a lot. Wells and dagger can take down turrets fast if they get stacked but smarties don’t do that.

Nothing you stated there suggest they are OP in any particular aspect that deserves a nerf of any kind. Yet you are championing a call to nerf turret engineers?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Nothing you stated there suggest they are OP in any particular aspect that deserves a nerf of any kind. Yet you are championing a call to nerf turret engineers?

Not necessarily to turrets, except I do feel they could use more damage shifted to them and a little less passive, but rifle in general and it’s CC opportunity is a bit too high OR easy to execute (via no casts). I played necro for 2 years and I’ve never been more effective than I am now. I’ve carried courtyard games 0-500 because pass Aoe fury/retal/protection and Aoe CC if we stick to a spot. I can hold a spot against two people for a long time and often manage to sweep it. I’ve had (probably 3?) successful 1v3s. And most of the reason I can do this is high CC and I don’t have to focus on damage myself at ALL or worry about pathing issues of pets to get the job done. I can say from playing it, it’s a bit much and does things not very many other builds could even dream of doing. And the bigger part is, it doesn’t have s lot of buttons to watch for.

Now, I don’t think it needs obliterated like some do. In fact that’s why I support nerfing it in the right way, I love playing Turrets. A little less CC or less easy to execute. Maybe a bit less easy dps but find a way to balance it out so the engi does a bit more himself in these set ups. (like instead of turret damage increase from the trait, personal damage increAse per turret out, capped).

I just think it’s smarter to be honest with ourselves and give up a little for balance sake, rather than end up over nerfed and suffer like Eles did once, and Hambow and the massive issues that the nerfs from the build brought on the entire warrior class.

Also, all of that said, once that stuff happened they might be able to fix some other issue we have as a trade off. Like reducing turret cooldown when picked much more so that we can pick them up and play the field better or fight back if caught off point without giving up so much. And a fix for bugs with some abilities landing properly. Things like that.

Trade off? The trade off is we are a professions with strong CC options and are the weakest with condition removal. We already had all of these discussions, with dev feed back, and balancing philosophies and all that. Via the balance philosophies posted, engineers are intended to (a quote from Jonothan Sharp) “have a lot of control” and “Good Crowd Control”. In the same post, and I quote here, he goes on to say, “Weakness: Condition removal.”. He goes on to say, and I am specifically quoting again “it is by design they don’t have a lot of condition removals but we don’t want conditions to be a hard counter for engineers. You can counter the conditions with your hard and soft CCs (i.e. stuns, cripples). The issue is when you fighting multiple opponents that you can’t really counter all the conditions.”

I do get a tickle out of the manner in which you post your claims as if they are inevitable and not up for discussion or debate. That’s a sure sign that you question it yourself.

I admit, sometimes I think the “Johnny Come lately” threads are funny. By that I mean when a new poster starts playing a good deal of a new profession, or game aspect, and they pop in the corresponding sub forums, making claims, accusations, and cries for nerf, on very old topics. All the while, having no clue as to the previous discussions and those discussions out comes.

Too bad Anet can’t nerf noobs that need to L2P.

Obtena.7952:

Too bad Anet can’t nerf noobs that need to L2P.

Yeah, it’s impossible for anything to be over tuned. I’m growing pretty bitter of this Engineer community. Every single one including top tier has absolutely no perspective of the potency of things they can do. I mean, IP for example. Every engineer is so sure it’s totally fine.

Back when Dhuumfire was nuts the necro community was just as in awe as everyone else and begging for it to be contained. I’ll just leave you guys to your agendas and let you continue your illusions that it’s just your own skill allowing you to play effectively and that it has nothing to do with ability potencies and I’ll play turrets because it’s fun and interesting to me regardless of my feelings that it is a bit too good in ways.

It’s not really worth arguing over, but I’ve not seen a class so dismissive…

Your last few post were all “we” and “us” when referring to engineers. When you determine a dis-satisfactory amount disagree with your aggressive demands of nerfs, and your attitude of certainty that your perspective is the only way, and everyone else is mistaken, it is suddenly “this community”. As well, you go on to claim everyone else is the problem for being dismissive to individuals rehashing old discussions and demanding the profession be changed for them, in a manner those is clearly against the balance philosophies.

Someone quotes a dev, and all of the sudden the community is in the wrong for going along with the official balancing philosophy, instead of steering away from official philosophy, to follow your ideas to the detriment of reasonable balance.

You can have a niche without it being over the top. Being told your goal is to avoid damage and CC that doesn’t mean any amount of CC you could possibly get is okay. Back to the necro, condition necromancer sare supposed to pressure and cover people in conditions. But thst didnt make Dhuumfire okay… You can still do things TOO well. It’s in the interest of the community and the class itself, and even the game to be more honest, though. If you can’t see a single issue with engineer in sPvP there is clearly and issue. They have two of the most effective builds in the game right now. You don’t land in that place by just abiding by balancing philosophies…

Dhuumfire is irrelevant. Between your sig and your Dhuumfire comments, your beginning to come off as an angry necro seeking revenge on another profession. Not saying that is the case, but it is sure starting to appear that way.

If they went off of one persons exclamation of nerf, thieves would have no stealth. Necro marks wouldn’t have a trigger or duration that they can paint the ground, they would activate when placed then dissipate at the end of that players suggested duration. Warriors wouldn’t have healing signet passive heals of any kind. Rangers would have no range. So on and so forth.

It seems problematic, that you believe your personal perspective of balance, is the end all be all of the matter in your eyes. I am not against some changes such as an interruptible cast time for healing turret placement, net shot, or over charge shot, with animation cues to boot. The problem is, you approach it as if your thoughts on the matter are unarguable and you state everything is an abrasive and aggressive manner, then go on to demand anyone who disagrees in any way as purely argumentative and dismissive.

You can not like it a you want, but I’m entitled to feel definitive on my views and perspectives. I suggest them because I know what I take advantage of in fights and what I feel might be unfair. Specifically that the game is all about telegraphs and responding to visuals, both of rifles most potent abilities happen to be CCs without a telegraph or proper reaction time. That’s unneccessary and very specific issue I see, and that’s what the thread is about, abilities found over powered. I don’t really agree with all of the OP’s list, and the difference between me and a lot of other people is I know you don’t fix a build with just nerfs but trade offs and readjustments.

I know I come off as forceful, but that’s because I’m confident in my own assessments of what specific pieces I feel too potent. Unfortunately (as a turret engineer) I feel instsnt i telegraphed low cooldown CC don’t allow for proper counter play, and the protection uptime because of thumper is too much. Instead of just adding an animation and possibly reworking the thumper boon, I feel they could benefit from better projectile accuracy, turrets that have a better reduced CD for relocation if you physically pick them up, etc.

I wouldn’t go out if my way to say something is overpowered or unneccessary without having an understanding of it first. In this case, I do, and two short ccs with no animation on a single weapon, to me, screams obvious issue to me. I get people don’t like being nerfed and hate how blunt I am, but it is what it is. It’s not subjective in a sense of “i feel” so and so, it’s actually objectively counter to their design philosophies of reactionary game play and telegraphed attacks.

I’m not JUST picking on engies. Signet of spite got similar treatment. I still don’t agree with how many instant attacks Elementalists have with scepter for the same reasons. I am just a little less focused on them because fresh air Eles aren’t really as common atm, but I still would prefer them to have cast times and readjust their damage accordingly to support having less instant stackable attacks.

Point is, I’m not singling out anyone. This just so happens to be an engineer specific thread and I weighed in on what I have experienced to be a bit too good, and I’m very sure of my assessment.

Also, I’m not mad at all about necro? I’ve said that the community for Necromancers have been a bit more honest about their own abilities they felt were too potent without enough counter play. Necromancer are, in my opinion, a decent spot. I feel some should come down to their level and some could use to come up to their level. I’d consider them one of the more fair (but not underpowered) classes.

You appear to have difficulty distinguishing the difference between subjective opinion and objective fact. Which is fine. Because your approach, and unwillingness to bend, works against you in both your inability to be flexible and negotiate a conversation, as well as the fact that you come off as vengeful and angry. Which works well with insuring the devs likely pass by most of your post. They have repeatedly listed reasons they will simply click a post so it is either over looked or doesn’t even show up when viewed for discussion on changes later.

I mean the funny part is even when other posters attempt to agree with certain aspects, you jump right back on the offensive because they do not agree with every other thing you said. Then you continue to lash out at them, even on the things they are in agreeance with, simply because they do not agree with everything. Your using an hatchet to remove a simply fly from your own forehead.

I really don’t actually. There is an amount of objectiveness to the lack of counter-ability of low cooldown instant attacks when the design philosophy of the game is to read your enemy and react. This is the deflective and hostile attitude I was talking about forever ago. I’m totally incredible now because I have a strong sense of knowing what I’m talking about, and I won’t “bend” because people are overly defensive of their class. There are a lot of people who didn’t want or think Dhuumfire needed to change, too. Same with the old Hambow, and so forth. That doesn’t mean suddenly opposition of those specs and specific abilities in question had to stop because someone said “no you’re wrong, its fine”. I have no REASON to “bend”. I know what I’m talking about because I do it myself. It’s incredibly potent and easy and in my OPINION far too much. I get angry when people instantly start with this “l2p I’m fine, you don’t know anything and you’re too demanding” junk. It has been proven time and time again all of these people who think they’re great aren’t actually that great and don’t have proper understanding of their classes when brought down to a reasonable level and decide to jump ship. I’m very willing to bend, if presented with arguments on why I’m wrong. I’ve had nothing but angry people tell me how wrong I am since I got here and how I need to learn to play, when I’m describing what I’m personally doing to other players… How can I even take people seriously when they don’t even display decent reading comprehension?

ronpierce.2760:

I really don’t actually. There is an amount of objectiveness to the lack of counter-ability of low cooldown instant attacks when the design philosophy of the game is to read your enemy and react. This is the deflective and hostile attitude I was talking about forever ago. I’m totally incredible now because I have a strong sense of knowing what I’m talking about, and I won’t “bend” because people are overly defensive of their class. There are a lot of people who didn’t want or think Dhuumfire needed to change, too. Same with the old Hambow, and so forth. That doesn’t mean suddenly opposition of those specs and specific abilities in question had to stop because someone said “no you’re wrong, its fine”. I have no REASON to “bend”. I know what I’m talking about because I do it myself. It’s incredibly potent and easy and in my OPINION far too much. I get angry when people instantly start with this “l2p I’m fine, you don’t know anything and you’re too demanding” junk. It has been proven time and time again all of these people who think they’re great aren’t actually that great and don’t have proper understanding of their classes when brought down to a reasonable level and decide to jump ship. I’m very willing to bend, if presented with arguments on why I’m wrong. I’ve had nothing but angry people tell me how wrong I am since I got here and how I need to learn to play, when I’m describing what I’m personally doing to other players… How can I even take people seriously when they don’t even display decent reading comprehension?

The op asked a engi nerf in the engis subforum. The great majority will just read nerf+engi and say no.

If this was posted in the spvp subforum the replies would be different. Just look at the several threads made asking a nerf to IP.

xDudisx.5914:

ronpierce.2760:

I really don’t actually. There is an amount of objectiveness to the lack of counter-ability of low cooldown instant attacks when the design philosophy of the game is to read your enemy and react. This is the deflective and hostile attitude I was talking about forever ago. I’m totally incredible now because I have a strong sense of knowing what I’m talking about, and I won’t “bend” because people are overly defensive of their class. There are a lot of people who didn’t want or think Dhuumfire needed to change, too. Same with the old Hambow, and so forth. That doesn’t mean suddenly opposition of those specs and specific abilities in question had to stop because someone said “no you’re wrong, its fine”. I have no REASON to “bend”. I know what I’m talking about because I do it myself. It’s incredibly potent and easy and in my OPINION far too much. I get angry when people instantly start with this “l2p I’m fine, you don’t know anything and you’re too demanding” junk. It has been proven time and time again all of these people who think they’re great aren’t actually that great and don’t have proper understanding of their classes when brought down to a reasonable level and decide to jump ship. I’m very willing to bend, if presented with arguments on why I’m wrong. I’ve had nothing but angry people tell me how wrong I am since I got here and how I need to learn to play, when I’m describing what I’m personally doing to other players… How can I even take people seriously when they don’t even display decent reading comprehension?

The op asked a engi nerf in the engis subforum. The great majority will just read nerf+engi and say no.

If this was posted in the spvp subforum the replies would be different. Just look at the several threads made asking a nerf to IP.

Eh, I was hoping the engi community had a bit more ability to discuss itself than what has become apparent. It’s strange how various classes are a bit more open to their own mechanics for discussion more-so than others. Oh well.

ronpierce.2760:

Obtena.7952:

Too bad Anet can’t nerf noobs that need to L2P.

Yeah, it’s impossible for anything to be over tuned. I’m growing pretty bitter of this Engineer community. Every single one including top tier has absolutely no perspective of the potency of things they can do. I mean, IP for example. Every engineer is so sure it’s totally fine.

Back when Dhuumfire was nuts the necro community was just as in awe as everyone else and begging for it to be contained. I’ll just leave you guys to your agendas and let you continue your illusions that it’s just your own skill allowing you to play effectively and that it has nothing to do with ability potencies and I’ll play turrets because it’s fun and interesting to me regardless of my feelings that it is a bit too good in ways.

It’s not really worth arguing over, but I’ve not seen a class so dismissive…

IP is one of the only things I feel need a nerf, i have been saying it for a while. Please do not generalize.

Can someone explain me why people – after 2.5 years – still respond to troll-threads?

Arantheal.7396:

Can someone explain me why people – after 2.5 years – still respond to troll-threads?

To be fair 2 out of 3 responses are counter troll posts…

Novuake.2691:

ronpierce.2760:

Obtena.7952:

Too bad Anet can’t nerf noobs that need to L2P.

Yeah, it’s impossible for anything to be over tuned. I’m growing pretty bitter of this Engineer community. Every single one including top tier has absolutely no perspective of the potency of things they can do. I mean, IP for example. Every engineer is so sure it’s totally fine.

Back when Dhuumfire was nuts the necro community was just as in awe as everyone else and begging for it to be contained. I’ll just leave you guys to your agendas and let you continue your illusions that it’s just your own skill allowing you to play effectively and that it has nothing to do with ability potencies and I’ll play turrets because it’s fun and interesting to me regardless of my feelings that it is a bit too good in ways.

It’s not really worth arguing over, but I’ve not seen a class so dismissive…

IP is one of the only things I feel need a nerf, i have been saying it for a while. Please do not generalize.

Sorry, I was getting frustrated.