Guild Wars 2

So yea, I tested this and this really bugs me.
Considering than about 80% of all combat moves that the engineer has (weapons and kits to be specific) are multi hit abilities this targeting system effectively doesn’t work. Sure it attacks the last thing I hit but what if the target I want to hit is a Mesmer in front of me and I just happen to hit a clone of theirs with a pierce shot from rifle or blunderbuss both of them, guess what the turret attacks that clone instead. This is not a targeting improvement when it is likely that these things will happen (multi-opponents in an area) and the turrets will STILL not attack the right target.

So congrats turrets are still mediocre as ever and you haven’t shown any true progress towards fixing them.

Honestly, I can see how it can be an issue, but no matter how you slice it, its hard to expect even the best AI to function in a case where your AoEing.

The best solution I can think of it to have turrets attack “called targets” by attacking the ones I call in group with that puts the icon over the targets head.

Mesmer phantasms attack the target they are called on and don’t stop attacking until they die or their target dies for the record. They have the implementation to make it work they just don’t bother.

Trust me, your going down a dark and broken path if you even beginning to think you want turrets to work like mesmer illusions. I have no idea what logic anyone would begin to use to compare the apples that clones are to the oranges that turrets are.

Why can’t we have an “attack my target” button for the turrets like Rangers have? U think there would be any issues with that?

They had 3 choices.

1. Buff turrets to being useful.
2. Fix the endless number of bugs with turrets.
3. Add new unwanted feature to turrets.

Of course Arenanet would pick 3.

Yoshifxe.8346:

Mesmer phantasms attack the target they are called on and don’t stop attacking until they die or their target dies for the record. They have the implementation to make it work they just don’t bother.

That works because illusions are called on specific targets. Every single one requires a target to be used, they’re essentially “tied” to that target.

Turrets don’t require targets, they’re placed seperately. So such a functionality would be impossible to implement unless they actually changed them to require a target on use, which would create more problems than solutions IMO (you wouldn’t be able to pre-place turrets before an encounter, and turrets would have to die when the target died just like illusions).

A “fire on this target” button wouldn’t really work either, just because there’s no place for it. Turrets already have a toolbelt skill and an overcharge. Adding a target lock would require removing one of those two functions (or adding new buttons entirely, which I doubt will happen just for one set of utilities), which would once again be a downgrade. I suppose they could tie the target lock to the overcharge as a messy compromise, but in the middle of combat I hardly want to be swapping targets to try and get my turret to shoot the right enemy when I just want to use an overcharge that came off cooldown, and such a combination would also mean you could only target lock as often as your turret overcharge was available.

I can’t say I particularly care for the new “turrets try to shoot whatever you hit” option either. It seems like it’ll just confuse the turrets and lead to them not firing as often as they should due to constant target swapping (since the turret needs to turn towards the target before it can fire). I personally had no problem with the way turrets targeted enemies before, and I actually liked that my turrets would spread their fire out to different enemies, it allowed something like a Net Turret or overcharged Rocket Turret to keep one enemy somewhat rooted while I could target another enemy freely. Now everything will be going after my target which means all the other enemies are unhindered, no CC spread at all. It also means I have to watch my turrets more closely, because if a random mob breaks off and goes after one of my turrets it won’t defend itself any more, it’ll just keep shooting my target.

coglin.1867:

The best solution I can think of it to have turrets attack “called targets” by attacking the ones I call in group with that puts the icon over the targets head.

Or they could just use the same targeting logic Ranger pets use. I haven’t seen this problem with any of my Ranger pets.

Not to say Ranger pets are problem-free, but I’m pretty sure they don’t have this issue.

Yoshifxe.8346:

Mesmer phantasms attack the target they are called on and don’t stop attacking until they die or their target dies for the record. They have the implementation to make it work they just don’t bother.

And you’d prefer your turrets to explode when their target dies, too? I suppose? Because yes, then the Phantasm code can be used.

Carighan.6758:

Yoshifxe.8346:

Mesmer phantasms attack the target they are called on and don’t stop attacking until they die or their target dies for the record. They have the implementation to make it work they just don’t bother.

And you’d prefer your turrets to explode when their target dies, too? I suppose? Because yes, then the Phantasm code can be used.

Phantasm code is also balanced with mostly traited 16 second cooldowns. If you were arguing that the phantasm value, implementation & user friendliness are in any way worse than turrets, you’re fighting a losing argument

Chaith.8256:

Phantasm code is also balanced with mostly traited 16 second cooldowns. If you were arguing that the phantasm value, implementation & user friendliness are in any way worse than turrets, you’re fighting a losing argument

Yes, ofc, I was arguing exactly that. I was also arguing how Mesmer toolbelt was so much superior to Engineer toolbelt and how much better Elementalist Adrenaline skill on Greatsword was.

(comparability, you don’t have it)

I was talking about a technical consideration, which I thought was obvious. Phantasms cannot switch targets, and unless the programmers were extremely bored when writing the code, the code doesn’t support switching targets.

If Turrets are supposed to be like Phantasms, might as well remove them tbh. Turrets would only be cool if I can use them to set up a fire base. It should assists me or – even better – assist the called target whenever possible (since that works when solo now). The latter actually makes a lot of sense, because it’s immediately obviously to everyone who the turrets will fire at, but the enemy cannot see it.

They’re not at all comparable to Phantasms, no. Much like Engineers cannot be compared to Mesmers. And I doubt the targetting code is transplantable (plus as said, it’d be rather meh).

Carighan.6758:

Chaith.8256:

Phantasm code is also balanced with mostly traited 16 second cooldowns. If you were arguing that the phantasm value, implementation & user friendliness are in any way worse than turrets, you’re fighting a losing argument

Yes, ofc, I was arguing exactly that. I was also arguing how Mesmer toolbelt was so much superior to Engineer toolbelt and how much better Elementalist Adrenaline skill on Greatsword was.

(comparability, you don’t have it)

I was talking about a technical consideration, which I thought was obvious. Phantasms cannot switch targets, and unless the programmers were extremely bored when writing the code, the code doesn’t support switching targets.

If Turrets are supposed to be like Phantasms, might as well remove them tbh. Turrets would only be cool if I can use them to set up a fire base. It should assists me or – even better – assist the called target whenever possible (since that works when solo now). The latter actually makes a lot of sense, because it’s immediately obviously to everyone who the turrets will fire at, but the enemy cannot see it.

They’re not at all comparable to Phantasms, no. Much like Engineers cannot be compared to Mesmers. And I doubt the targetting code is transplantable (plus as said, it’d be rather meh).

..

Did you think people are able to tell by your tone that you’re making the exact opposite argument you sound like you’re making? As well as 3 other assumptions?

“Looks for another post by Carighan talking about ’Mesmer Toolbelt, and Elementalist Adrenaline skill (wat)”

“Doesn’t find it”

You could quite possibly by in the wrong thread.

This update was effectively a nerf to turrets. The preview to this patch actually featured quite an awkward silence when the devs were previewing it and they commented on the fact that it seemed to lower DPS because the turret was constantly switching target. I think this has made turrets much worse.

The comment I made wasn’t to say “make turrets like phantasms” like a lot of posts seem to think, but to rather point out that other forms of targeting exist that function 10 time better than this current turret targeting.

Rangers have their F-skill target
Mesmer clones/phantasms are linked to their target
Necromancers minions attack the target the necromancer is targeting (first target I believe unless that got changed as well)

Honestly, there should just be an option by this point for player controlled minion targeting by now. Make it just like the ranger’s target and simple in and out “press this button for all underlings to attack said target.”

It’s getting to the point that I really want to see this turret change that they said they were working on back in like December/(Early 2013) SOTG because I am not seeing one iota of effort from the balance team.

I really like the idea of them simply assisting on the called target. It makes sense, it’s intuitive, and it can be used while solo now.

Well I wouldn’t put it to that targeting system, because then if you go into a party, its then a party target. Not a huge issue in PvE, but put that into a party scenario then it might get a little problematic when people are calling targets on things that you have no quarrel with. Example your fighting a Mesmer on one end of the map and your buddies are fighting another group on the opposite side of the map.

coglin.1867:

Trust me, your going down a dark and broken path if you even beginning to think you want turrets to work like mesmer illusions. I have no idea what logic anyone would begin to use to compare the apples that clones are to the oranges that turrets are.

I would much prefer temporary summoned drone pets that assault chosen targets, because they would actually work.

Target summoned temp pets are usually always successful.

we are engineers. they should give us ability to write turret ai ourselves. On per-turret basis.
I would really love to make net turret to shoot at moving targets, rocket at clumped ones, rifle turret on the target that took/is taking the most damage. Maybe even so turret combinations.

Zorgog.3908:

Why can’t we have an “attack my target” button for the turrets like Rangers have? U think there would be any issues with that?

I asked this very same question as the GW2 Meet’N’Greet after EMCC. They basically said the ONLY REASON THEY WON’T DO THIS – is because it would make the functionality “too similar to what rangers have”.

That’s it. That was the only reason offered. They just don’t want it to be close to something a different class has – even when all it is, is a partial mechanic that is proven to work, and is desperately needed.

Electro.4173:

I can’t say I particularly care for the new “turrets try to shoot whatever you hit” option either. It seems like it’ll just confuse the turrets and lead to them not firing as often as they should due to constant target swapping (since the turret needs to turn towards the target before it can fire). I personally had no problem with the way turrets targeted enemies before, and I actually liked that my turrets would spread their fire out to different enemies, it allowed something like a Net Turret or overcharged Rocket Turret to keep one enemy somewhat rooted while I could target another enemy freely. Now everything will be going after my target which means all the other enemies are unhindered, no CC spread at all. It also means I have to watch my turrets more closely, because if a random mob breaks off and goes after one of my turrets it won’t defend itself any more, it’ll just keep shooting my target.

This. I much preferred turrets as they were.

Ichishi.9613:

we are engineers. they should give us ability to write turret ai ourselves. On per-turret basis.
I would really love to make net turret to shoot at moving targets, rocket at clumped ones, rifle turret on the target that took/is taking the most damage. Maybe even so turret combinations.

Well, yeah. That would rock. But I can’t even get a lot of party members to do this.

While making turrets a clone of Mesmer phantasms is clearly a bad idea, I believe borrowing some of the tech from how phantasms work would be the best idea.

When a phantasm is created, it attacks whatever the Mesmer had targeted at that moment. I’m not a programmer, but to me this says there is tech to make a “minion” attack what you have targeted when using a skill. For turrets, they don’t have to just be stuck on what we were targeting when we created them like a phantasm (and then destroyed after its dead, that’s silly), but the tech might be able to be adjusted so that every time we use a skill, our turret AI is updated to attack whatever target that skill was used against. This way we’re not going off the last thing we damaged, it is always what we have targeted when we use a skill, so the turrets are always attacking our target. This is the functionality I believed we would get, maybe the AOE thing was an unforeseen side effect and doing it this way would be what was intended in the first place.

Again, not a programmer, can’t say how realistic this is but from my limited knowledge it seems like the tech is there and could be adjusted for turrets.