Guild Wars 2

I just wish the Engineer community would stop thinking like a meat-head warriors about DpS and how “essential” it is to a team effort. ArenaNet never pigeon-holed Engis to grenade glass-cannon builds, they did it to themselves.

Personally, I used to run grenades for damage, but even then I acknowledged that I wouldn’t be a DpS machine and used them for the utility more than anything.

The Grenade kit is a step in the right direction, it forces Engis to not pigeon-hole themselves and explore more options, options that Engis excel in; which in my opinion is utility. Yes, they could’ve done it differently, as others suggest, such as buffing our other kits, but from a developer standpoint: which is easier to do in a short amount of time? Coding several changes, or changing one?

From my perspective, ArenaNet delivered. And not only that, but they went as far as to say that they will be implementing future changes to further buff Engis (Weapon stats to kits). Think about it this way: The nerf to grenades along with applying sigils to bundles was an intial step to spark the curiosity to explore more utilitarian builds. E.g. Weaker grenades, but 3 chances to proc a sigil… Sure you can add more damage, but hey what’s the point? Since they cannot do much damage, may as well use them for other purposes such as quickness, healing, etc… That is one possibility.

Now when the second step comes (weapon stats to kits), imagine how much more stronger Engis will become! And on top of that build diversification will also be more of a focus, since DpS is not a primary concern. I have full faith after this patch that ArenaNet will not fail to deliver, they are merely implementing the first step.

That is why I ask the Engineer community to not lose faith. Sure right now we’re gimped, but that is merely a shroud upon us to further tinker with our gadgets and hide us from the rest of the classes. When all is done we will be one of the most unique and diverse classes out there.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

The Grenade kit is a step in the right direction, it forces Engis to not pigeon-hole themselves and explore more options, options that Engis excel in; which in my opinion is utility.

Or in other words, it pingeon-holes us into being a utility support class.

I didn’t sign up to be the healer. So much for no trinity.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Now when the second step comes (weapon stats to kits), imagine how much more stronger Engis will become!

Don´t you see you´re falling in the same trap once again? Don´t let them fool you even more, that´s nothing else but another carrot on a stick which will come with some bitter additions.

@PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263

Trust me I’ve been around since day1 and got over 350hrs of engineer gameplay, I DID explore all the possible options and I say we have nothing to play with now, if you actually think the bugs will be addressed soon then I’m sorry but the list provided has been almost entirely the same since day1, exept for sigils which got announced like 20 days ago by Jon, back then I thought “oh then they are gonna fix flamethrower bugs” BZZZT NO! they DIDN’T, they didn’t fix a thing since last patch now it’ll be another entire month be4 we get addressed (maybe), SHAME on whoever’s working the engineer bugs.

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

I just wish the Engineer community would stop thinking like a meat-head warriors about DpS and how “essential” it is to a team effort. ArenaNet never pigeon-holed Engis to grenade glass-cannon builds, they did it to themselves.

Personally, I used to run grenades for damage, but even then I acknowledged that I wouldn’t be a DpS machine and used them for the utility more than anything.

The Grenade kit is a step in the right direction, it forces Engis to not pigeon-hole themselves and explore more options, options that Engis excel in; which in my opinion is utility. Yes, they could’ve done it differently, as others suggest, such as buffing our other kits, but from a developer standpoint: which is easier to do in a short amount of time? Coding several changes, or changing one?

From my perspective, ArenaNet delivered. And not only that, but they went as far as to say that they will be implementing future changes to further buff Engis (Weapon stats to kits). Think about it this way: The nerf to grenades along with applying sigils to bundles was an intial step to spark the curiosity to explore more utilitarian builds. E.g. Weaker grenades, but 3 chances to proc a sigil… Sure you can add more damage, but hey what’s the point? Since they cannot do much damage, may as well use them for other purposes such as quickness, healing, etc… That is one possibility.

Now when the second step comes (weapon stats to kits), imagine how much more stronger Engis will become! And on top of that build diversification will also be more of a focus, since DpS is not a primary concern. I have full faith after this patch that ArenaNet will not fail to deliver, they are merely implementing the first step.

That is why I ask the Engineer community to not lose faith. Sure right now we’re gimped, but that is merely a shroud upon us to further tinker with our gadgets and hide us from the rest of the classes. When all is done we will be one of the most unique and diverse classes out there.

We are already the most unique and diverse class out there. We’re kinda like a swiss army knife with all the gadgets replaced with tinker toy variants, and the knives replaced with different types of spoons, which is plenty useful and fun but when you are trying to cut through new content it isn’t going to get you far.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3x9AoCnRTYk/TrhZDJzx2bI/AAAAAAAADwY/icifUPllNOw/s640/seuss.JPG

This is an engineer.

What utility are engineers best at?
I don’t see it.

Being versatile still means you pick a particular build that you don’t change during the fight.
Engineers have not a single build that is the best at anything in the game.
So basically we pay the price for having several playstyle options.

While the price we should pay, should be for versatility IN COMBAT.
And we have that, but not enough to warrant being lower dps.

Grenades are our only 1500 range option.
That alone shows something is wrong.

It’s not that I like grenades a lot myself.
But not having anything else that has the same range, or the same damage, or even the same aoe is almost forcing me to use grenades.

Piercing shots comes in second on that part.
But the aoe is weaker, the utility less (no chill), the range is far less even when spending another trait!

Mortar is a joke, and an elite skill at that.

Elixir gun support as alternative?
The heal is stationary, the damage is single target, the buffing is slow or short range.
It’s a great kit, but it’s not in the same league as grenades.
A nerf to grenades #1 should have come with an equal buff of 30% to elixir gun #1…

Tool Kit is a fun kit, but good luck hitting a pvp player in time with it for a longer time.
Here the damage is ok by itself, but the casting times are too long.
Not to mention such melee abilities should be aoe.
If more than one target, spamming grenades at your feet will do more damage again…

Flamethrower?
Extremely short range usage, bugged features, #needs to explode on impact or have detonation.
It’s a great kit, I love it. But grenades beat it in almost everything except the knockback.

Just a few example of fun alternatives, but not one has the range, aoe, pure damage or utility grenades can offer.

Any nerf to grenades should have come with substantial buffs to other options.
Both in damage as in range, and even in utility.

From Arenanet:
Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class.

Ele
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility.

=_=…..

No, it’s the ending. For myself and I’m sure a lot of other players.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012

Class balance philosophy:
*mid range fighters- mid range doesn’t exists except in pve

*Boons to keep self and allies alive- elixirs are watered down signets without passive effects & elixir gun is back to healing @ fail #’s

*Apparently we have extreme versatility and it’s at the cost in damage of our main hand weapon.

We have a ton of tools but none of the right ones for the job. I’m like a carpenter with a toolbox full of kitchen utensils. Could I use some of them to do the job? I guess but it won’t be very effective.

Nerfing grenade#1 -30% then saying “oh it’s in preparation for when weapon stats finally apply to kits” I’m not buying it.

If that was the case, lets nerf stealth 1-2sec till culling is fixed

The class is and has been lacking for sometime. Today was 1 step forward and three steps amputation.

I’ll done, maybe check back next patch if I remember.

@Shoyoko.7309
This^ so many times this^

So… w8 what? eles are versatility kings and only engis get to pay for it?

besides that, I truly think engis are the real kings of versatility, eles WOULD, if they reworked them in a smart way, atm they don’t have that many knockback/knockdowns and fields to actually be as useful as us, but they make it up with reliable damage and not-bugged skills

PWNcakesAndROFLs.8263:

Now when the second step comes (weapon stats to kits), imagine how much more stronger Engis will become!

Right…dont you see a pattern emerging? All engineers were like “its going to be ok, we will get a buff when we get sigils to work with kits!” lol -30% grenade damage to “compensate” for the buff.
Same thing will happan when they apply weapon stat’s to kits. -20% base damage from all kit abilities to “compensate” the buff.

What ever way you look at it a Buff followed by a Nerf is just a slap in the face.

If Grenadier damage was “a little” too high as arenanet said in their update post then why the 30% nerf in damage? IMO 30% is not “a little”.

And for the record some of us engineers were already using sigil of bloodlust before the patch. +250 power at max stacks never came close to giving us 30% more damage. It all seems very imbalanced to me.