Guild Wars 2

In case people have missed it Johnathan Sharp has posted a tentative look at some of the upcoming balance changes. It should be noted that these changes are not finalized. Head on over and check them out if you have not seen them already!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/first

I’m loving the elixer changes. My Elixer/Pistol build will become even more amazing.

Yeah the elixir changes are certainly welcome with having guaranteed stealth or stability. Keeping my fingers crossed it’s not like 1 second or something heh. Only concern is seeing how non elixir builds will fare. I have not used elixirs in forever and a day since I switched to using multikit builds.

I posted on that thread, hopefully something they look at is the disproportionate strength of elixir and/or kit builds compared to gadget and/or turret builds. It seems that even the most successful gadget or turret builds use a kit or elixir in them. I think kits and elixirs are too far above gadgets and turrets, the latter needs to be bumped up a couple notches. The targetting issue will help turrets, but I don’t think it will be enough when they still die very quickly and are immobile in a game designed for mobile combat.

We’ll be playing GW3 before Turrets are viable…..

Adamantium.3682:

I posted on that thread, hopefully something they look at is the disproportionate strength of elixir and/or kit builds compared to gadget and/or turret builds. It seems that even the most successful gadget or turret builds use a kit or elixir in them. I think kits and elixirs are too far above gadgets and turrets, the latter needs to be bumped up a couple notches. The targetting issue will help turrets, but I don’t think it will be enough when they still die very quickly and are immobile in a game designed for mobile combat.

If the leaked notes are as on-target as they’re seeming, then player-controlled minions will be getting a massive HP boost and Metal Plating will be getting…uh…a 3% increase.

I don’t think either will help Turrets enough.

On turrets… They said before in an interview they didn’t want them to be so strong as to where the eng just pops down 3 then lets them do the work. I think they are worried that will happen if they buff them. The reality is that they need some srs buffs to be more viable though.

On that elixir stealth thing, how does it interact with acidic elixirs?

If we toss it on ourselves, will we break stealth if the explosion hurt anything?

Looking forward to try the improved GT mode. Just wish it was not nearly a month away…

digiowl.9620:

On that elixir stealth thing, how does it interact with acidic elixirs?

If we toss it on ourselves, will we break stealth if the explosion hurt anything?

Looking forward to try the improved GT mode. Just wish it was not nearly a month away…

Depends when the damage is dealt. If it is dealt on stealth then no issue. If right after yeah it will put you in revealed. Generally though if they happen at the same time stealth will activate and no reveal.

Im glad they are finally stepping down from the RNG they just spend the last year and a half defending. Oh yes, boys and girls, we asked for this reduced RNG a lot in the past. And the devs even went out and commented on it before thinking it was “cool game mechanics” and we just had to deal with it.
And finally theyre changing turrets to just shoot what you were shooting.

Sadly, no love for Gadgets. Those poor little buggers, they’re “okayish” and i think there is like only 1 trait actually made for them.
Since they are adding a Stealth-counter to Rangers in Sick ‘em i was really hoping they’d do the same for Utility Goggles.

Good changes, but i cant shake this feeling they’re about a year late.

Aberrant.6749:

On turrets… They said before in an interview they didn’t want them to be so strong as to where the eng just pops down 3 then lets them do the work. I think they are worried that will happen if they buff them. The reality is that they need some srs buffs to be more viable though.

What Like:

Mesmers do with Phantasms
Necromancers do with Minions

….

Adamantium.3682:

I posted on that thread, hopefully something they look at is the disproportionate strength of elixir and/or kit builds compared to gadget and/or turret builds. It seems that even the most successful gadget or turret builds use a kit or elixir in them. I think kits and elixirs are too far above gadgets and turrets, the latter needs to be bumped up a couple notches. The targetting issue will help turrets, but I don’t think it will be enough when they still die very quickly and are immobile in a game designed for mobile combat.

Fear the ability to continually immobilize THE RIGHT TARGET with the Net turret, FEAR IT AND FEAR IT NOW!

Okay, so I JUST rolled engi before reading all this but…. if turrets attack my target (instead of, say, a weapon rack), does this mean I can unleash all of my toolbelt, use some CC, drop turrets, CC some more, Overcharge and unload a buttload of DPS on a guy?
Again, pretty new to the engi.
Also, I read in a leak that the rifle turret will now stack a 5 or 8 second vuln per shot instead of bleed.

@Conix:
What you described may well be possible with the new Turret AI changes. Turrets have always been strong in 1v1s however. They are extremely strong against single targets and a Turret build – if its AI didn’t fail – could keep a target locked down for a very long time.

I will say this however:
You can expect the QQ to come soon especially when Engineers start to incorporate more Turrets into their builds where previously there were Elixirs or another Kit instead. People underestimate the trolling potential of Net Turret/Rocket Turret wombo combo and when more people start dying to it you can bet there will be calls for the nerf bat.

IMO, Turrets should never scale with player HP or Toughness or Power and instead their CC abilities should be emphasised and their fragility turned into an advantage like Mesmer shatters.

All “shatter” Turret Engineers are missing is Accelerant Packed Turrets moved to Adept tier and Deployable Turrets moved into Inventions along with a general CD reduction of our strongest CC tools; Net Turret and Rocket Turret.

If buffs instead increase Turret durability I think the QQ train will go the same way as Spirit Ranger and Necro MM before the Vampirism nerfs. It will be interesting to see how Anet handles this difficult topic.

MonMalthias.4763:

IMO, Turrets should never scale with player HP or Toughness or Power and instead their CC abilities should be emphasised and their fragility turned into an advantage like Mesmer shatters.

All “shatter” Turret Engineers are missing is Accelerant Packed Turrets moved to Adept tier and Deployable Turrets moved into Inventions along with a general CD reduction of our strongest CC tools; Net Turret and Rocket Turret.

The different being that Mesmers can summon clones and Phantasms in seconds and most have like 16 second cool down. This would be impossible on Engi Turrets due to all the long cool downs. Its an interesting idea, one that wont work if the cool downs stay the same. Damage would be an issue as well, currently i dont think they are anywhere near strong enough.

Anymras.5729:

If the leaked notes are as on-target as they’re seeming, then player-controlled minions will be getting a massive HP boost and Metal Plating will be getting…uh…a 3% increase.

I don’t think either will help Turrets enough.

Assuming a turret is even considered a “player-controlled minion”. I don’t think the game recognizes it as such, it doesn’t get boons and can’t be healed like Necro minions and Mesmer clones. I hope it includes turrets as (along with other things) they really need a big boost in survive ability, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Dirame.8521:

Fear the ability to continually immobilize THE RIGHT TARGET with the Net turret, FEAR IT AND FEAR IT NOW!

Not if the rate of fire is still bugged and the overcharge doesn’t work consistently.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The different being that Mesmers can summon clones and Phantasms in seconds and most have like 16 second cool down. This would be impossible on Engi Turrets due to all the long cool downs. Its an interesting idea, one that wont work if the cool downs stay the same. Damage would be an issue as well, currently i dont think they are anywhere near strong enough.

Depends, they could be stronger effects to make up for the longer cooldown. Blast Thumper for AoE knockdown, blast Flame for AoE blind, etc. Or have them create combo fields on blast/death, or give them a sort of static discharge when killed, stuff like that.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Aberrant.6749:

On turrets… They said before in an interview they didn’t want them to be so strong as to where the eng just pops down 3 then lets them do the work. I think they are worried that will happen if they buff them. The reality is that they need some srs buffs to be more viable though.

What Like:

Mesmers do with Phantasms
Necromancers do with Minions

….

I didn’t say their reasoning wasn’t hypocritical lol

I honestly cant imagine turrets ever being considered op (viable at best), it would take some drastic changes to get them that far.

Thats one discussion we will never have to worry about

I just want to be able to put only turrets on my utility bar T-T

I like the idea there.

TheGuy.3568:

digiowl.9620:

On that elixir stealth thing, how does it interact with acidic elixirs?

If we toss it on ourselves, will we break stealth if the explosion hurt anything?

Looking forward to try the improved GT mode. Just wish it was not nearly a month away…

Depends when the damage is dealt. If it is dealt on stealth then no issue. If right after yeah it will put you in revealed. Generally though if they happen at the same time stealth will activate and no reveal.

It should exhibit the same behaviour as it currently does. This can be tested with toss elixir S and acidic elixirs on a training dummy or something else. When the stealth procs instead of the stability, you should either keep the stealth while the damage is dealt or else be instantly revealed.

Haven’t tested this in game myself though, so I can’t say one way or the other offhand.

Adamantium.3682:

Dirame.8521:

Fear the ability to continually immobilize THE RIGHT TARGET with the Net turret, FEAR IT AND FEAR IT NOW!

Not if the rate of fire is still bugged and the overcharge doesn’t work consistently.

The overcharge works consistently for me. The only problem would be the rate of fire but you can always throw in an immob from another skill in the time the Net turret isn’t doing it’s job.

Penguin.5197:

I honestly cant imagine turrets ever being considered op (viable at best), it would take some drastic changes to get them that far.

Thats one discussion we will never have to worry about

I can already win most of my fights even against infi-stun warriors with a well placed turret at my back. I feel it’s kinda OP now but obviously when loads of people start rocking it, it will become “because everyone is playing it, it’s OP!!” kinda like how people said HGH was OP for a while.

It sounds more like an issue with people not knowing how to fight Turrets, since they are so rarely used. And the nr1 used Turret is almost always blown up right after being placed, on purpose.

Turrets are stationairy, dumb, machines. If a Turret ever became something to worry about there are so many counters to it, its silly. Not the least simply smacking them a few times, they are seemingly made of paper. Or if you have roam to move, like in a WvW fight, just walk away.

And thats the big idea’s people are failing to comprehend. Not to mention the far more subtle plays of “okay, that is a Net Turret (as if most non-engineers would even recognize one…) so its going to be Immobilize City. Probably in preparation for a follow up” etcetc.

Dirame.8521:

Penguin.5197:

I honestly cant imagine turrets ever being considered op (viable at best), it would take some drastic changes to get them that far.

Thats one discussion we will never have to worry about

I can already win most of my fights even against infi-stun warriors with a well placed turret at my back. I feel it’s kinda OP now but obviously when loads of people start rocking it, it will become “because everyone is playing it, it’s OP!!” kinda like how people said HGH was OP for a while.

How does a turret helps you against a stun and a warrior with access to stability?

Do you use fire turret and overcharge it?

@Lupanic:
Net Turret counters Stability as it is a condition and not a stun.

@ArmageddonAsh:
I believe that Turrets as they are may very well go down in CD given that it is the easiest way to bring them into viability without any consideration to their AI or HP values. A low CD makes low HP less of an issue; whilst losing a turret isn’t the end of the world as it will come back up very soon. I think 20-30 seconds should be the benchmark for most Turrets – and Healing Turret, Flame Turret and Rifle Turret already set this precedent. If Thumper, Rocket and Net Turret were brought down to this level then Anet wouldn’t even have to fully address shonky AI or hitboxes – players would simply drop them in melee closest to their target and go ham.

MonMalthias.4763:

@ArmageddonAsh:
I believe that Turrets as they are may very well go down in CD given that it is the easiest way to bring them into viability without any consideration to their AI or HP values. A low CD makes low HP less of an issue; whilst losing a turret isn’t the end of the world as it will come back up very soon. I think 20-30 seconds should be the benchmark for most Turrets – and Healing Turret, Flame Turret and Rifle Turret already set this precedent. If Thumper, Rocket and Net Turret were brought down to this level then Anet wouldn’t even have to fully address shonky AI or hitboxes – players would simply drop them in melee closest to their target and go ham.

I dont think cool downs would be enough. The damage done is kinda pathetic as well in my opinion. Compare them to Minions and Phantasms and they are worse in EVERY way.

Personally i think the traits need to be improved, damage improved i think the Toolbelt skills need to be improved as well, just blowing them up is weak. For example – Rifle Turret the Toolbelt skill could be a dual pistol combo attack

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MonMalthias.4763:

@ArmageddonAsh:
I believe that Turrets as they are may very well go down in CD given that it is the easiest way to bring them into viability without any consideration to their AI or HP values. A low CD makes low HP less of an issue; whilst losing a turret isn’t the end of the world as it will come back up very soon. I think 20-30 seconds should be the benchmark for most Turrets – and Healing Turret, Flame Turret and Rifle Turret already set this precedent. If Thumper, Rocket and Net Turret were brought down to this level then Anet wouldn’t even have to fully address shonky AI or hitboxes – players would simply drop them in melee closest to their target and go ham.

I dont think cool downs would be enough. The damage done is kinda pathetic as well in my opinion. Compare them to Minions and Phantasms and they are worse in EVERY way.

Personally i think the traits need to be improved, damage improved i think the Toolbelt skills need to be improved as well, just blowing them up is weak. For example – Rifle Turret the Toolbelt skill could be a dual pistol combo attack

I primarily run SD, and the bane has always been the allure of the short cool down, insta-cast, mid damage toolbelt skill, attached to that atrocity of a mid damage turret that randomly attacks what ever it feels like attacking at the moment. But, if I use my SD spike post patch which is the classic Analyze, Surprise Shot, and Throw Wrench (which all go off together since wrench is the only non-insta-cast) I can immediately drop and overcharge the turret for extra DPS on MY TARGET not on the effin Wolf meandering aimlessly nearby. This will improve my spike tremendously…but if the targeting works like I think it will Net Turret may become my go to as it may turn thieves into stationary punching bags. A small price to pay for the lower DPS.

But I think the main thing to look at here is very soon we’ll have access to reliable Stability…Acidic Elixir builds are soon to be the bane of many players existences. B and S…perfectly named elixirs to use for the BS we will be pulling off.

Obscure One.4357:

I primarily run SD, and the bane has always been the allure of the short cool down, insta-cast, mid damage toolbelt skill, attached to that atrocity of a mid damage turret that randomly attacks what ever it feels like attacking at the moment. But, if I use my SD spike post patch which is the classic Analyze, Surprise Shot, and Throw Wrench (which all go off together since wrench is the only non-insta-cast) I can immediately drop and overcharge the turret for extra DPS on MY TARGET not on the effin Wolf meandering aimlessly nearby. This will improve my spike tremendously…but if the targeting works like I think it will Net Turret may become my go to as it may turn thieves into stationary punching bags. A small price to pay for the lower DPS.

But I think the main thing to look at here is very soon we’ll have access to reliable Stability…Acidic Elixir builds are soon to be the bane of many players existences. B and S…perfectly named elixirs to use for the BS we will be pulling off.

SD?

Why will Acidic Elixir Builds going to be stronger? i was thinking that, thats the Elixir Gun skill but i am i wrong?

I think Turrets need to be tweaked and buffed not all in the same ways like some increased damage, others increased CC all need to be lower cool downs, I cant quite understand why Rocket turret is a 50 second cool down for a few seconds of burning. Though the Overload part with the knock down is quite nice, the base cool down of 50seconds it just to long. At most they all need to be in the 20-30second mark.

Look at iZerker for example. 16 second cool down when traited and that does AoE damage to quite alot of people and its not like a tickle either its very strong damage as well and even more so when traited for Phantasms.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Obscure One.4357:

I primarily run SD, and the bane has always been the allure of the short cool down, insta-cast, mid damage toolbelt skill, attached to that atrocity of a mid damage turret that randomly attacks what ever it feels like attacking at the moment. But, if I use my SD spike post patch which is the classic Analyze, Surprise Shot, and Throw Wrench (which all go off together since wrench is the only non-insta-cast) I can immediately drop and overcharge the turret for extra DPS on MY TARGET not on the effin Wolf meandering aimlessly nearby. This will improve my spike tremendously…but if the targeting works like I think it will Net Turret may become my go to as it may turn thieves into stationary punching bags. A small price to pay for the lower DPS.

But I think the main thing to look at here is very soon we’ll have access to reliable Stability…Acidic Elixir builds are soon to be the bane of many players existences. B and S…perfectly named elixirs to use for the BS we will be pulling off.

SD?

Why will Acidic Elixir Builds going to be stronger? i was thinking that, thats the Elixir Gun skill but i am i wrong?

I think Turrets need to be tweaked and buffed not all in the same ways like some increased damage, others increased CC all need to be lower cool downs, I cant quite understand why Rocket turret is a 50 second cool down for a few seconds of burning. Though the Overload part with the knock down is quite nice, the base cool down of 50seconds it just to long. At most they all need to be in the 20-30second mark.

Look at iZerker for example. 16 second cool down when traited and that does AoE damage to quite alot of people and its not like a tickle either its very strong damage as well and even more so when traited for Phantasms.

SD = Static Discharge
It’s the core trait of builds that boat the highest single target direct damage that is possible on an Engineer.

Acidic Elixirs = Adept tier in Explosives Thrown elixirs deal damage and remove a boon.
Combine with the dirt cheap rune of nullification for 60% chance to remove a boon on crit. Note that thrown elixirs are all AoE. You’ll be able to simultaneously strip enemy stability while applying stability to yourself and friends. If properly traited you’re also removing a condition (Cleansing Formula 409) and granting might (HGH).

As for turret buffs I feel making them target your target is a huge step forward. I think once implemented they should then look at changing CDs and damage numbers. As of right now they’re just functionally ineffective, fixing that is more important than changing the numbers. First time in a long time that I feel like ANet is doing something intelligent.