Guild Wars 2

“Profession bundle weapons (engineer kits, elementalist conjure skills, warrior banners) can now save their autoattack status.

Elixir X: This skill now gains a duration increase from both the Inventions trait Elite Supplies and the Alchemy trait Potent Elixirs.
Freeze Grenade: This skill no longer benefits from the Explosives trait Grenadier for 5-second cooldown reduction.
Knee Shot: This Firearms trait now effects all immobilize skills for engineers. The effect can only trigger once every 5 seconds to prevent players from exploiting it to stack massive amounts of cripple.
Mortar: This skill is now properly affected by the Inventions trait Rifled Turret Barrels.
Rifled Barrels: This Firearms trait now works with the Elixir Gun kit when underwater."

Before you get too giddy they have NOT fixed auto-attacks on all kits.

Grenade Kit auto-attack is locked out which seems to imply ANet believes it should not have an auto-attack option.

Bomb Kit auto-attack sorta-kinda works. By sorta-kinda I mean it works if you’re standing perfectly still, and the bomb hits your target, and you’re in constant combat. If one bomb misses, if you move, then it shuts off.

Soo yeah. My raised hopes upon reading the patch notes were thoroughly crushed…

well its a start I guess.
maybe the next patch will have enough to pull me out of borderlands and back into actually playing guild wars instead of just stalking the forums.

Not sure what you’re complaining about.

Of course grenade kit wasn’t going to get an auto-attack, it’s an aoe ground targeted skill. No other ground targeted skill that I know of is also player-targeted. And frankly it would make grenades even more powerful (like they are underwater) and further blur the line between them and bombs. I think it’s fine.

Bomb kit autoattacks works just like any melee skill autoattack in the game. I don’t notice any difference between it and autoattack with the axe on my warrior.

And all the other autoattacks work perfectly as well. FT, elixir gun and toolkit are now suddenly much less of a pain to use.

This is a great change!

MrParanoid.5728:

Not sure what you’re complaining about.

Of course grenade kit wasn’t going to get an auto-attack, it’s an aoe ground targeted skill. No other ground targeted skill that I know of is also player-targeted. And frankly it would make grenades even more powerful (like they are underwater) and further blur the line between them and bombs. I think it’s fine.

Bomb kit autoattacks works just like any melee skill autoattack in the game. I don’t notice any difference between it and autoattack with the axe on my warrior.

And all the other autoattacks work perfectly as well. FT, elixir gun and toolkit are now suddenly much less of a pain to use.

This is a great change!

Underwater Grenades = Direct Throw

Out of Water Grenades = Arced lob that auto attack would still regularlly miss like it does with ground targeting now.

Really isn’t a good excuse to not have an auto attack on it if you want it as an option. Probably a low priority for them but hopefully it’ll come one day, till then my 80 Engineer is a Oric miner bot every 7 hours :P

Although I still have complaints and bug fixing desires with Engi (who doesn’t!), this is a good patch overall for Engi’s and I feel the class is a large leap closer to being “done” than it was 30 minutes ago.

… yeah, auto-attack means that much to me :P

“Bomb kit autoattacks works just like any melee skill autoattack in the game. I don’t notice any difference between it and autoattack with the axe on my warrior.”

It’s not a melee skill. Unlike a melee auto-attack bombs don’t trigger/explode immediately and can and often do miss their target. When this happens the auto-attack is turned off.

Not to mention that builds that use bombs to heal their teammates also don’t benefit from this change.

You arguing otherwise tells me you have either not played this profession much or at least not played it using the Bomb Kit.

Don’t get me wrong – these changes are a step in the right direction, and I’m willing to concede (with great reservations) that Grenade Kit maybe should not have an auto-attack. But the Bomb Kit auto-attack realistically works 20% of the time, if that.

dont see the mortar getting the dmg from the trait, also 100 range is laughable and it still doesnt work with elite supplies trait. and grenades should NEVER get an auto attack, and if it bothers u so much just make a macro to press 1 twice, or turn on fast cast ground targetting

The auto attack was added to grenades when underwater, and the bonus damage to Mortar does work (tested both in PvE and Heart of the Mists).

well the tooltip isnt updating any dmg change, also u dont see the 1500 range increase until you are on the mortar. what if u have the range increase and someone else gets on your mortar u place, do they get the range increase or do they have to have the trait? i want the range increase to apply

I’m afraid I don’t know about the range applying to other people, I suppose it should; feel free to test it yourself and tell us the results, I probably won’t find anyone to test it myself before a few hours.

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

well the tooltip isnt updating any dmg change, also u dont see the 1500 range increase until you are on the mortar. what if u have the range increase and someone else gets on your mortar u place, do they get the range increase or do they have to have the trait? i want the range increase to apply

Just managed to test it and the increased ranged does work when someone else uses it.

tested it and only the person with the trait on benefits from the increased range

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

tested it and only the person with the trait on benefits from the increased range

Conflicting reports, heh. Someone else to test and confirm a result?

All ground targeted skills have auto-attack locked out because the game doesn’t have enough information to automate a ground-targeted skill. If you can think of a way to make ground targeted skills auto-attack (they probably wouldn’t accept auto-centering the reticle on your current target), you could probably post it in the suggestions forum.

how can their be conflicting reports? pull out a mortar, get on it, then put on the trait and notice it makes ur skill change to 1500 range, also note the trait only changes your skills in the mortar not the range of the actual mortar elite skill(still says 1400). and if a player that doesnt have that trait gets on the mortar then they only have 1400 range

Did they fix the big’ol’bomb mistakenly being labeled as a Combo Finisher: Blast?

Venoma.7052:

It’s not a melee skill. Unlike a melee auto-attack bombs don’t trigger/explode immediately and can and often do miss their target. When this happens the auto-attack is turned off.

Not to mention that builds that use bombs to heal their teammates also don’t benefit from this change.

You arguing otherwise tells me you have either not played this profession much or at least not played it using the Bomb Kit.

The bomb kit autoattack works exactly the same as it always has and strictly speaking works perfectly. I assume the attack range is considered to be 120/180, identical to the blast radius, so it it autoattacks precisely when any other attack when that range would.

Now, keep in mind that I’m not saying it’s perfect, because it’s not the ideal way it might work. Ideally we’re just crapping bombs whenever anything is within, say, 600 range, where there’s a chance they might just walk into them. Not ideal is not the same thing as broken. The simplest fix for this would be to increase the attack’s “range” without changing where the bomb drops, that way the target is technically in autoattack range even if the bombs aren’t actually going to hit.

And of course you don’t get the benefit when healing with bombs, you can’t autoattack without an enemy target in range. I’ve also never seen the autoattack “turn off.” I’ve played several whole zones with nothing but bombs, and have seen that happen exactly never.

how can their be conflicting reports? pull out a mortar, get on it, then put on the trait and notice it makes ur skill change to 1500 range, also note the trait only changes your skills in the mortar not the range of the actual mortar elite skill(still says 1400). and if a player that doesnt have that trait gets on the mortar then they only have 1400 range

Asking the other player to shoot would have been a good idea, tooltips are known for not being reliable right now since they often don’t update properly with traits. So, yeah, I’m just going to assume I’m right.

After playing the engineer and have a couple sets of gear one condition/toughness/vit and the other power/critical/condition with some crit damage increase. I’ve come to decide what we do is outperformed by everyone else.

Using all dps, I can barely kill anyone, I use my rifle burst to get them close to death then they usually heal up(while I am beating on them) and then proceed to out dps me. Warriors/Mesmers/Rangers kill me really fast, while the thief just obliterates me. This is all while I am using all my blinds, knock backs, condition damage grenades and dodging any big attack I see. I feel like I am putting 2-3x the effort of other classes just to try to beat them.

The toughness/vit/condition build is more a fun way to go with flamethrower and grenades and I tend to use it in wVw, but its just that a gimmick fun build.

I guess the engineer is stuck being support. Or I just suck playing my class, which might be the case, but I’m not too sure.

Isilith Tehroth.6047:

After playing the engineer and have a couple sets of gear one condition/toughness/vit and the other power/critical/condition with some crit damage increase. I’ve come to decide what we do is outperformed by everyone else.

Using all dps, I can barely kill anyone, I use my rifle burst to get them close to death then they usually heal up(while I am beating on them) and then proceed to out dps me. Warriors/Mesmers/Rangers kill me really fast, while the thief just obliterates me. This is all while I am using all my blinds, knock backs, condition damage grenades and dodging any big attack I see. I feel like I am putting 2-3x the effort of other classes just to try to beat them.

The toughness/vit/condition build is more a fun way to go with flamethrower and grenades and I tend to use it in wVw, but its just that a gimmick fun build.

I guess the engineer is stuck being support. Or I just suck playing my class, which might be the case, but I’m not too sure.

Not that it’s terribly relevant to this thread, but out of curiosity what build are you using?

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Isilith Tehroth.6047:

After playing the engineer and have a couple sets of gear one condition/toughness/vit and the other power/critical/condition with some crit damage increase. I’ve come to decide what we do is outperformed by everyone else.

Using all dps, I can barely kill anyone, I use my rifle burst to get them close to death then they usually heal up(while I am beating on them) and then proceed to out dps me. Warriors/Mesmers/Rangers kill me really fast, while the thief just obliterates me. This is all while I am using all my blinds, knock backs, condition damage grenades and dodging any big attack I see. I feel like I am putting 2-3x the effort of other classes just to try to beat them.

The toughness/vit/condition build is more a fun way to go with flamethrower and grenades and I tend to use it in wVw, but its just that a gimmick fun build.

I guess the engineer is stuck being support. Or I just suck playing my class, which might be the case, but I’m not too sure.

Not that it’s terribly relevant to this thread, but out of curiosity what build are you using?

Rifle/Grenade build, pretty much the only reliable competitive build.

My wVw sometimes I will use flamethrower/pistol/grenade build.

Meant with a bit more specifics, maybe a build editor link or something with what traits you use, gear, etc. Rifle/grenade can mean any of a dozen builds, some of which can burst for over 20k.

Personally, for 1v1’s I like having rocket turret. I know there’s a huge crowd out there that say “turret’s are garbage” and they’re right, mostly. But keeping rocket turret as a crutch for the eventual 1v1 is quite nice. Drop it, and use explosive rocket immediately. Even if I get cc’d, the turret (which is immune to all form off cc) will still launch its aoe burn/knockdown. Twice in 4 seconds. All told those 2 rockets (which almost never miss in a 1v1) do 2400 direct damage and 2200 burning damage, but more importantly give me control of the situation. Even if the target goes stealthy, the second explosive rocket will still hit them. At that point I’m free to do whatever I want.

This is the build I use. http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MMM9VMavwMMavwMxx9MaVkqzsao. I seem to not do that much damage even though I am specced for it(save the rocket turret which I’ll try out). Yeah I do miss sometimes with the grenades but I usually get them with a net before I use them.

This started playing in my head when I saw: “Profession bundle weapons (engineer kits, elementalist conjure skills, warrior banners) can now save their autoattack status.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=usfiAsWR4qU#t=7s

Well, I can give you a few pointers. First of all, you don’t have static discharge which is a huge component of the rifle grenade (or more generally rifle-toolbelt). Essentially, every time you use a toolbelt skill it does 1-3k damage to multiple nearby targets. The damage obviously depends on your power and crit.

Putting 20 points in tools (remove points from firearms, it doesn’t give you all that much tbh). Building off that, once you get static discharge, you’ll also have inertial converter at 15 tools which is another huge trait. It recharges all of your toolbelt skills at 25% health. To synergize with this, you grab healing kit to put your main heal on the toolbelt. That way every time you heal, you also trigger a static discharge AND your heal auto-recharges at 25% health.

A more standard rifle-toolbelt or rifle-grenade build might look something like this (I kept as many of your trait choices as I thought possible, this is by no means the best build):

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MMMM9mmanvMmavwMxa0aGVkqzmoM

You’d generally have at least 2 offensive skills in the toolbelt. Throw grenade, and one of battering ram, throw wrench (from tool kit, the toolkit itself is meh, but throw wrench can do massive damage), rocket kick form rocket boots, or one of the lower-cooldown turret skills, although I might ignore all that and use rocket turret.

Your main problem is that you neglected the main synergies of the rifle-toolbelt builds which are static discharge and inertial converter.
————————————————————————————————————————-

Edit: Also 10 pts in alchemy for a bit of survivability.

For an even higher damage rifle-toolbelt build, see here:

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MMMM9mmaCTMmaCGMxa0aGVkqzmoM

F2, F3, and F4 in series will do massive damage. Follow (or open) with rifle skills. Easily possible to burst 15-20k. Rocketboots is your stun/immobilize breaker, though it has some issues.

again no weapon stats and sigills for kits since beta

sigils no affecting kits still not fixed….

In a way it makes sense not to have weapon stats added to kits since only equipped items seem to count. (like aqua breather stats are only added when underwater). On the other hand, when I fully focus on grenade kit I don’t have to invest in either rifle nor harpoon.

Thanks for the builds btw, they are great suggestions. I’m still worried about the static discharge though, if it won’t pull mobs in pve.

What’s with this ‘Freeze Grenade’ from patch notes.

“Freeze Grenade: This skill no longer benefits from the Explosives trait Grenadier for 5-second cooldown reduction.”

On my screen I only see increased range and grenades for Grenadier, nothing on CD. What did I miss?

I was wondering about the freeze grenade thing as well

Grenadier had been giving Freeze Grenade a 5 second shorter CD for no reason (it was never in the tool-tip, and it was obviously not intended). They fixed that now.

ah, thank you. I guess I did unknowingly make use of that

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like the Static Shot (Pistol 3) skills works reliably now (bouncing the full three times rather than the two times is usually does/did).

Out of all the stuff they STILL haven’t fixed the Deployable Turrets trait. I’m grumpy.

wait lemme get this straight, this is the second time they changed grenade skills and they still havent fixed the underwater grenade range with grenadier? :/ well at least elixir gun got the range fix.

PotatoOverdose said:

“Personally, for 1v1’s I like having rocket turret. I know there’s a huge crowd out there that say “turret’s are garbage” and they’re right, mostly. But keeping rocket turret as a crutch for the eventual 1v1 is quite nice. Drop it, and use explosive rocket immediately. Even if I get cc’d, the turret (which is immune to all form off cc) will still launch its aoe burn/knockdown. Twice in 4 seconds. All told those 2 rockets (which almost never miss in a 1v1) do 2400 direct damage and 2200 burning damage, but more importantly give me control of the situation. Even if the target goes stealthy, the second explosive rocket will still hit them. At that point I’m free to do whatever I want.”

I don’t down turrets as much as others. I love the utility of some turrets.

Net Turret, to me, is by far the most useful of all the turrets with the ability to drop two nets out one after another (Toolbelt skill, THEN drop the Net Turret). Not to mention the overcharge is effective!

Thumper turret is useful for its overcharge, which I’m willing to drop near the gate of a tower/keep I intend to defend before I run into it.

Petezahut.3068:

wait lemme get this straight, this is the second time they changed grenade skills and they still havent fixed the underwater grenade range with grenadier? :/ well at least elixir gun got the range fix.

You do not talk about underwater grenades!