Am I the only one who feels like the off-hand Pistol is completely worthless? I mean, most of the time I like to stick to using kits anyways, but when I use my “real” weapons, I can’t help but stick with Pistol+Shield over Pistol+Pistol.
Let’s look at this objectively for a moment.
Shield gives:
That, against what the off-hand Pistol gives:
To begin with, the off-hand Pistol’s two skills conflict with each other. One skill is designed to keep enemies away, while the other one is most effective when they’re in melee range.
The Shield’s abilities, however, work together, completely focused on protecting the Engineer from enemies – reflecting, blocking, interrupting, and just plain keeping enemies away.
Then there’s the simple fact that the “goal” of both weapons overlap, at least slightly. Why should I want a glue shot, when I can instead get the Shield’s knockback and ranged double-daze, and be much more effective at keeping enemies away? This suggests that the only reason for us to want the off-hand Pistol, is to get the Blowtorch skill that applies Burning – even though it’s only truly effective against melee enemies. It doesn’t even have an automatic backwards leap!
It seems to me that Glue Shot should be brought in line to match what the rest of the Pistol skills do – not just Blowtorch, but also the Poison and Confusion/Blind applications. It should be more offensive/damaging in nature.
And of course, it’s obvious that the Shield just plain gives more, even if the four abilities it gives are compacted onto two buttons with fairly long cooldowns.
I just don’t see the incentive to equip an off-hand Pistol, in any situation, over the Shield. I’m thinking they need to tweak the off-hand Pistol’s kit so that, not only does it have a different focus than the Shield, but that you have a desire to use it.
I’d love for Glue Shot to be changed to, say… coating an area with burning tar. A Tar Shot. Replace the Immobilize with 1 second of Burning applied every second the enemies in the tar, leave the Cripple… and also make it a Fire field while we’re at it.
That, imo, would give me incentive to use off-hand Pistol over Shield, and obviously only in the specific situation that I feel like I should grab skills that apply Burning (and can safely go into melee range to do so) over picking defensive skills. Suddenly I’m making a real choice.
(edited by DrakeWurrum.6049)
Consider the stat bonus you’d get from a solid off-hand pistol. It’s worth it depending on what sort of gear you have.
I, however, use a shield in my off-hand for both PvE and sPvP. The knockback and stun abilities are too good to pass up.
In general I agree that the shield is much more beneficial than the offhand pistol. The survivability the block abilities, as well as CC + finishers provide is simply fantastic.
But don’t look down on the offhand pistol. It may need some slight buffs to be on par with shield but it’s still a great weapon depending on what your doing.
The blow torch does massive damage 6-7k AoE in condition specs. So it’s fantastic if your stacking burns.
The AoE cripple / immobilize is a bit broken since the animation seems to have some issue right now, but even it when paired with the AoE chill, or glue bomb from bomb kit, does wonders in pvp, wvw, and pve for kiting. Toss down the chill grenade then use glue shot and you can stop or slow groups at a time while siege cut them apart.
I love doing this at the gate to the fishing village on border land maps. Build a few carts and a balisita, bait the enemy thru the gate and then drop the multiple slows / immobilizes to lock them in the arch way so they can’t escape.
Consider the stat bonus you’d get from a solid off-hand pistol. It’s worth it depending on what sort of gear you have.
I, however, use a shield in my off-hand for both PvE and sPvP. The knockback and stun abilities are too good to pass up.
Shields give stats too. O_o
In fact, it kinda gives “more” stats since it also boosts your armor.
But don’t look down on the offhand pistol. It may need some slight buffs to be on par with shield but it’s still a great weapon depending on what your doing.
The blow torch does massive damage 6-7k AoE in condition specs. So it’s fantastic if your stacking burns.
The AoE cripple / immobilize is a bit broken since the animation seems to have some issue right now, but even it when paired with the AoE chill, or glue bomb from bomb kit, does wonders in pvp, wvw, and pve for kiting. Toss down the chill grenade then use glue shot and you can stop or slow groups at a time while siege cut them apart.
I love doing this at the gate to the fishing village on border land maps. Build a few carts and a balisita, bait the enemy thru the gate and then drop the multiple slows / immobilizes to lock them in the arch way so they can’t escape.
I’m not so much “looking down on it” as failing to see why I would ever pick it over the Shield.
The only logical response that I can come up with is Blowtorch, because the Shield does everything that Glue Shot does better. And then you have to realize that, while Blowtorch is useful, it’s only really useful at close range, even though Glue Shot is designed for keeping enemies away from you.
So then the real question becomes: Should the off-hand Pistol have something other than Glue Shot?
And I can’t help but think that if instead of an immobilizing Glue Shot, we could lay down a burning Tar Shot, which still crippled, then not only would the off-hand Pistol be more consistent with all the other Pistol skills, but it would actually be a real choice of offense vs defense.
And we could still do some ranged kiting if desired, we’d just be weaker at it in some ways, while stronger at it in others. (May not have an Immob, but now they’re crippled while moving through a puddle of burning tar? Delicious)
(edited by DrakeWurrum.6049)
For me it is all about Magnetic shield. Not only do I completely negate incoming ranged attacks, but I reflect it back to them getting the benefit of my crit rate. Its like a 2 fold bonus.
I guess it depends on how much dmg you wish to dish out? In my experience the weapon dmg bonus from a shield is a huge difference to an offhand pistol.
While I understand the comparison between shield abilities and glue shot (which is a bit rubbish due to the slow travel speed etc) You’re essentially comparing two completely different set ups due to the large dps drop of having a shield compared to a pistol. I would agree glue shot should be reworked. Maybe a snare with a small poison or vulnerability debuff would be more appropriate.
But yeah, shield vs pistol needs to be considered more in terms of playstyle than straight ability comparison.
Anyone have any good pistol/shield builds they’ve been using? I’m thinking 20/30/20 Explosives/Firearms/Inventions (Inventions for that shield toughness/cooldown bonus). I’m just having trouble coming up with skills to go with it.
I like 30 fire arms…..20 inventions and 20 tools.
I personally like shield a lot more. Skill #4 works great vs Quickness short bow rangers, it will reflect most of the burst, almost killing themselves.. and the 5 stun and daze has many apllications, like stomping a rezzing.. as well as any melee burst from a warrior or thief..
I like 30 fire arms…..20 inventions and 20 tools.
Yeah actually, since I made my post about build help I found that going 20 tools would be really cool.
Is it really THAT great of a DPS drop?
For me I leveled with shield’s for at least 10 levels. I found the level of control with the shield amazing.
However I know find myself with dual pistols simply because of the damage increase and the lack of control required for most PvE mobs.
Like all weapons skills the off-hand pistol takes practice. My rotation is as follows
1. Poison Volley – pull mob
2. Static Shot
3. Glue Shot – by now the mob is pretty close so I aim it at my feet
4. Blowtourch + dodge backwards – almost instantly ofter glue shot
The trick is to dodge backwards as the cone targeting is still pretty buggy and I found this way you get a lot less misses, you also get a cool back-flip and flame animation.
Also keep in mind that static shot also applies blindness so it’s okay to be at close range for a short amount of time.
It is always interesting to see how everyone opinions vary so greatly on this issue. Every 10 levels I bought 2 new pistols, a shield, and rifle. That way I could judge how they felt as I leveled, and see if my opinion changed.
I never got a feel for P/P at any level, and rifle almost won me over with its control. In the end, the AoE control of the shield always wins out for me.
I suggest to everyone, to drop a few copper or a silver or two, every ten levels and try to have a little fun with all 3 options, and find out what works for you.
Fun fact: on another forum, the opinion is completely opposite.
Shield has one main downside holding it back: The cooldowns. 30 seconds and 20 seconds, that’s huge. Depending on what and how you’re fighting, you’re not going to use those more than once every 2 fights or so. Kind of awkward. If shield had lower cooldowns, I’d definitely prefer it unquestionably.
Pistol’s main advantage is Blowtorch. It does huge burning damage, and it also does huge damage, which is pretty good in general, because pistol engineer is generally condition focused. Glue shot is what makes it versatile: instead of thinking about it as conflicting with blowtorch, think of it as complementing: blowtorch lets you deal the damage, glue shot lets you run away afterwards.
Guys, don’t forget about the blast finisher on Shield #4 second ability!
To begin with, the off-hand Pistol’s two skills conflict with each other. One skill is designed to keep enemies away, while the other one is most effective when they’re in melee range.
This shows a lack of understanding of how the off-hand pistol works.
Glue shot isn’t for keeping enemies away. It’s to keep them standing in place.
The Blowtorch skill does more damage when your enemy is close to you. It’s also a conal attack that is not easy to aim. Dropping a Glueshot to keep your target still and then dropping a Blowtorch on them.
Granted, this is a more PvP-centric tactic.
Blowtorch inflicts burn, which is the most damaging condition. It is on a very short cooldown, and hits up to three targets.
Meanwhile the shield abilities have long cooldowns, #4 forces you to stand still to reflect projectiles, and #5 will only block the first hit.
But in all honestly you should not compare the two offhands. They are used for different Engineer builds and strategies. I play a condition build, so I would never pick shield over pistol.
I run a conditions build in sPVP as well, but I still like the shield more. My build uses the Bomb Kit too, so I can set people on fire by dropping a Fire Bomb and shooting through its aura.
It all comes down to your build and playstyle tho. Offhand Pistol definitely has its uses.
Engineer condition damage is more reliant on burning and confusion. If you’re playing a build with low crit, i.e. Carrion Amulet, you will probably want to go pistol offhand to provide reliable burn uptime. I generally only use shield if I have high enough crit to provide a reasonable amount of Incendiary Powder procs. And glue shot is very good for kiting, escaping, or getting that root to ensure you get a full blowtorch.
I’ve always preferred the Pistol honestly. It’s really just a trade-off of offense versus defense here. Pistol 4 is a lot of damage, and Pistol 5 is incredible offensive utility.
To begin with, the off-hand Pistol’s two skills conflict with each other. One skill is designed to keep enemies away, while the other one is most effective when they’re in melee range.
This shows a lack of understanding of how the off-hand pistol works.
Glue shot isn’t for keeping enemies away. It’s to keep them standing in place.
The Blowtorch skill does more damage when your enemy is close to you. It’s also a conal attack that is not easy to aim. Dropping a Glueshot to keep your target still and then dropping a Blowtorch on them.Granted, this is a more PvP-centric tactic.
Blowtorch inflicts burn, which is the most damaging condition. It is on a very short cooldown, and hits up to three targets.
Meanwhile the shield abilities have long cooldowns, #4 forces you to stand still to reflect projectiles, and #5 will only block the first hit.
But in all honestly you should not compare the two offhands. They are used for different Engineer builds and strategies. I play a condition build, so I would never pick shield over pistol.
ha yeah. I was going to quote him and say the same thing.
to op,
Wait, you think glue shot is to keep people AWAY? no no no. Glue shot is to lock people down, so you can get on top of them and WRECK them.
p/p is a MELEE, to middle range spec. You WANT to be in melee range 90% of the time.
Blowtorch’s dmg is awesome but you have to be in the same range with those high dps melee classes… which it is the last thing i would want to do ….
Really?
between gearing for prec/tough/cond.
High retaliation uptime.
Cond damage dots.
Confusion and blind.
Static shot bounce, static discharge bounce.
Also allows easy supply drop, and grenade barrage’s. Closer to me, means shorter delay, and easier to aim.
Up close and personal is a very bad place to be vs me.
With bouncing damage, and explosive shots aoe. I want to be in melee, and I want to draw any pets in with me, to be on top of you as well. So, when I hit you with static shot, I hit you, and your pet bouncing back and forth. 2 hits, and 4 stacks of confusion for you. (illusions, pets, summons, turrets, guardian weapons)
Why tough, not vit.
Vit is anti condition damage. raw hp. First, you get vit from alch traiting. Second, 409 makes all your elixirs remove conditions. And thus is rare for any to last long on you really. toughness is anti burst/direct damage. which is most people in the first place, but secondly, the only real threat. A cond build already leans on requiring survival before burst.
(edited by Casia.4281)
you can talk how wonderful in the world you are on forum dude ….. at the end it doesn’t show anything ….
Yes, because a RANGED immobilize is meant to keep enemies away? That’s obviously all it’s good for. Same with the Mesmer’s Illusionary Leap, right?
A pistol off-hand is most useful for glue shot, I admit, as the flame weapon is just there for looks, but it is a lot better for some engineers. Landing a glue shot directly on another player so you can catch up with your wrench/flamer/mines/whatever is a pretty good application for the ability. Considering the shield stun is so inconsistent and misses a lot, Glue Shot is a pretty good option.
The point is, a ranged AoE immobilize AND slow is great for catching up to someone. While some of the engineer melee builds aren’t nearly as viable right now (Especially Flamer for it’s bugs :/), it doesn’t mean that there aren’t melee engineers that can use glue shot. I like Glue Shot for it’s consistence and it’s range.
Blowtorch’s dmg is awesome but you have to be in the same range with those high dps melee classes… which it is the last thing i would want to do ….
That’s only a problem if you make a glass cannon build. Regardless of what build you’re using, you need toughness and/or vitality. Glass cannons of every class fall over flat, there’s no point in dealing huge damage if you can’t take it in this game.
Yes, because a RANGED immobilize is meant to keep enemies away? That’s obviously all it’s good for. Same with the Mesmer’s Illusionary Leap, right?
A pistol off-hand is most useful for glue shot, I admit, as the flame weapon is just there for looks, but it is a lot better for some engineers. Landing a glue shot directly on another player so you can catch up with your wrench/flamer/mines/whatever is a pretty good application for the ability. Considering the shield stun is so inconsistent and misses a lot, Glue Shot is a pretty good option.
The point is, a ranged AoE immobilize AND slow is great for catching up to someone. While some of the engineer melee builds aren’t nearly as viable right now (Especially Flamer for it’s bugs :/), it doesn’t mean that there aren’t melee engineers that can use glue shot. I like Glue Shot for it’s consistence and it’s range.
The thing is, you can land a Shield Throw and catch up to them very similarly with Shield equipped, too.
If people try and get away in WvW I always pop an Elixir B and then Shield Throw once I get in range… They almost never get away.
I worship my P/P in spvp (well… tpvp actually) atm i have an condition build without any kits thus relying on my pistols to do the dmg. Im totally focussed on precision and conditiondmg.. next to that i have an nice avarage 2500 armor. But to make sure i survive while they die quite quickly thanks to my conditions i also specced in something else.. dodging :P dodging is a masterfull mechanic… combine p/p which is an medium/close range combination with a unlimited supply of swiftness and vigor and you can keep running and dodging around melee-professions as if it was a roundabout :P
Also nice to keep up with rangers and magic professions who try to keep distance.
I have been using shield since level 30
The ability to reflect projectiles is very useful when fighting many ranged mobs together
The pushback gives you space to run away when needed
The blast finisher is just awesome, blast finisher has some of the best abilities (like AoE stealth and AoE 3 stacks might)
The stun on being attacked helps a ton against strong mobs, not only it nullifies the damage but it gives you time to kite too
The daze on demand is fantastic against channelers
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