Oh come on, seriously???
1 2
OP: Poses question. Preemptively mocks anyone who tries to answer question.
Serious question: Do you only have 1 character slot? You keep talking about deleting one character to make Engineer, and now you don’t want to try anything else or all your hard work on the Engineer will go to waste. I’m confused. You can have at least 5 characters without deleting anything. I’m wondering what your other 4 character slots are doing. Probably out having a party because they don’t have to be an Engineer am I right!
The most common gadget build I believe will be based on SD because most gadgets have targeted toolbelt skills, and condition damage on them is pretty much non existent so you’ll likely want rifle as well.
[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
Jade Quarry
Jade Quarry
well if you use thumper turret for the stunbreak then logic dictates you wouldn’t place the turret down in the first place.
The toolbelt skills on turrets are for when they are down so you won’t be completely defenseless. Turrets also will proc static discharge twice because of the way their tooldbelt works. And in a moment where you would need to pop a stunbreak, destroying thumper turret might not be a bad thing, as it can also knock back your opponent (if you trait for it) and nullifying the need to break the stun, letting you have 1 more stunbreak when you need it
(edited by Monadproxy.3489)
well if you use thumper turret for the stunbreak then logic dictates you wouldn’t place the turret down in the first place.
Then why use the thumper turret at all? He should rather use another stun break directly.
He isn’t wrong in this regard. A full turret build won’t ever use his toolbelt skills (aside the one to detonate them) unless some turret gets destroyed. It would be like blocking out the ranger pet/ nerfing them per every spirit summoned, or locking out the necromancer life force based on how many minions are summoned.
Sure, they needed a way to detonate them, and we can profit from that as well if we can place some combo field beforehand, but that basically means that we have to choose between using the utilities or the class mechanic.
Turrets are not designed to stand long. Place turret, overcharge, detonate. That’s how it is meant to be. No tower defense in gw2.
Turrets are not designed to stand long. Place turret, overcharge, detonate. That’s how it is meant to be. No tower defense in gw2.
I agree. Heck they even set a timer on it in case it was up for too long. Cant let those turrets be defending now can we?
The toolbelt skills on turrets are for when they are down so you won’t be completely defenseless. Turrets also will proc static discharge twice because of the way their tooldbelt works. And in a moment where you would need to pop a stunbreak, destroying thumper turret might not be a bad thing, as it can also knock back your opponent (if you trait for it) and nullifying the need to break the stun, letting you have 1 more stunbreak when you need it
Indeed. I used to have a sPvP build awhile back that used a couple turrets (Healing and Net I think) with that trait. I didn’t pack a stun break, because what I would do is drop my Healing Turret as the fight started, then just fight right on top of it. Warriors/Thieves would come stun me, then I just detonate the turret, getting my heal back and stopping their spike also. It would work a little different today, but the idea you have explained here is more effective than one might think!
[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
Jade Quarry
Jade Quarry
well if you use thumper turret for the stunbreak then logic dictates you wouldn’t place the turret down in the first place.
Who should you have to choose one over the other? I see no other class having to choose between effectively using their utilities or their class mechanic.
The engineers entire class mechanic is flawed beyond even reasonable functionality, stop defending it. The only reason we even have builds is because of the grace of two functional kits and a few traits that are far too powerful for how early they are found in the trait trees.
So basically it works out like this; it is an either/or situation. Either I slot the turrets for their tool belt skills, or the turrets themselves; we can’t actually use both. If I intend to use the tool belt, then I can’t place the turrets, and if I intend to use the turrets I can’t use the tool belt. Sort of destroys that “engineers have more skills than everyone else” theory doesn’t it?
Interestingly enough it is either/or choices like this that made me abandon the thief. Their initiative mechanic was too restrictive of weapon skills, meaning I could either use if for my offensive skills, or my defensive ones, but not both. The only way to compensate for this was to strictly adhere to a predetermined rotation for “maximum efficiency” and viability. And all that did, ultimately, was reduce the profession and its skills to nothing but a rhythm based mini-game, rather than being about tactical choices in combat. It was stale and dull, and I swiftly tired of it.
Looks like the same thing is happening here, and that rather handedly disproves the myth that engineers are “the most versatile and flexible profession in the game.”
Having the “either/or” situation doesn’t negate turret engis (much less engis in general) from being flexible and versatile because the turret engi isn’t the only build available. They have to option to play their turrets and they also have the option to use their tool belt when the use of the turret isn’t ideal. That’s both versatile and flexible.
It’s absolutely not required to choose “either/or”, though you could do that if you really wanted to for some reason. You have two cooldowns to manage per utility slot, as someone who has primarily used kits you should be very familiar with this. You can use the toolbelt skills before you place the turret (beginning of fight). Once they’re back up you can detonate the turret (in a field for blast finisher, next to enemy for damage and knockback) and have the toolbelt available again.
[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
Jade Quarry
Jade Quarry
So basically it works out like this; it is an either/or situation. Either I slot the turrets for their tool belt skills, or the turrets themselves; we can’t actually use both. If I intend to use the tool belt, then I can’t place the turrets, and if I intend to use the turrets I can’t use the tool belt. Sort of destroys that “engineers have more skills than everyone else” theory doesn’t it?
consider this:
I use rifle & rocket turrets for the toolbelt skills that are targeted projectiles for static discharge procs on low & med cooldowns respectively. Alternately in a big group fight the 2 turrets can be thrown down to do steady dps outpacing the utility skills. Further more in a pinch situation they can be dropped and detonated for either the blast finishers or the burst damage of detonation.
I don’t ever feel like an either or choice with slotting turrets.
Please, give me a rational explanation why I should slot the Thumper Turret for the stun break tool belt skill, when that skill gets replaced by “detonate turret” the second I place the kitten thing.
That’s easy. You traited well so you have knockback on turret explosion and static discharge. You eat a long stun because you missed a dodge. It’s all right, happens to the best of us.
Next instant, you have knocked your enemy back, dealt damage from the explosion, dealt damage again from the static discharge, and can either break the stun and deal damage two more times or wait it out, since you just used a knockback.
Your stunbreaker knocks your opponent back and deals 3k-6k multiple target damage. What’s the problem, again? Oh, you also got 20% of your endurance back. I know you’re a PvEer more than a PvPer so let’s say you’re also standing on some combo fields (pretty likely if you’re stacked up on a boss or something). Boom—two blast finishers. On your stunbreak.
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
This will be something of a rant, and somewhat off-topic, and I apologize, but it’s starting to bother me – am I the only person who’s seen what three Turrets do to a single target, and been unimpressed? The way people talk, it’s like they expect the change to targeting to take Turrets from bad to good like hitting a switch.
It will be an improvement, don’t get me wrong, but don’t get your hopes up that it’ll suddenly make them a good skillset. I use them because, and I’m quite open about this, I’m going to use what I like, whether it’s good or not, thus why, by contrast, I don’t use Kits or Elixirs. I’ve seen what a full set of Turrets does to a single normal enemy, and it is not that impressive. I even checked what the Flamethrower would do to the same enemy, and the Flamethrower was just as fast taking the enemy out as Rifle, Flame and Rocket Turret all focus-firing on it alongside my own Pistol bullets.
Matter of fact, that’s the experiment that pretty much solidified my dislike for Kits, seeing my favorite skillset of my favorite class shown to be that ineffective, even fully-traited and geared, by comparison.
What Turrets need, in my opinion as a stubborn-as-a-bull Turret Engineer, far more than the targeting change, is A ) bugfixing, like holy kitten how did they let them get kittened up this bad bugfixing, and B ) some manner of scaling to more stats than Conditions, Boons and Healing, so that they can be made more effective without making them overpowering – Power, at least, would be a nice addition, especially as the number of Turrets that inflict Condition Damage dwindles, with no Boon-granting to take its place, and maximum Condition stacks are shaved down.
Does anyone actually use Turrets?
I do.
When I play.
Which I’ve pretty much stopped doing, starting probably the day after the failed rally, continuing until they start fixing the massive number of bugs afflicting the Turret skillset.
I doubt it’ll make any difference, but apparently they gauge their game’s health by the number of unique logins per day – hopefully they don’t consider the forums as part of that number, but if it turns out they do, I’ll stop signing on to them, too. A small act, but if they want to pretend bugs don’t exist, then I’ll just play something else I’m actually able to have fun with. Right now, that’ll be Warframe, which has a devsquad which actually appears to give a kitten about their playerbase even when said playerbase isn’t being complimentary or they don’t have a crust to throw them.
Please, give me a rational explanation why I should slot the Thumper Turret for the stun break tool belt skill, when that skill gets replaced by “detonate turret” the second I place the kitten thing.
That’s easy. You traited well so you have knockback on turret explosion and static discharge. You eat a long stun because you missed a dodge. It’s all right, happens to the best of us.
Next instant, you have knocked your enemy back, dealt damage from the explosion, dealt damage again from the static discharge, and can either break the stun and deal damage two more times or wait it out, since you just used a knockback.
Your stunbreaker knocks your opponent back and deals 3k-6k multiple target damage. What’s the problem, again? Oh, you also got 20% of your endurance back. I know you’re a PvEer more than a PvPer so let’s say you’re also standing on some combo fields (pretty likely if you’re stacked up on a boss or something). Boom—two blast finishers. On your stunbreak.
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
Translation; turrets and their effect on the tool belt is complete and utter, indefensible crap unless you heavily trait for a specific turret play style that by its very nature undermines the whole point of placing a turret in the first place.
That is the other reason I left the thief; the profession was only really viable if you made heavy use of steal, and that only worked if you traited heavily for the bonus effects of steal. That sort of thing really limits build diversity no matter if you want to admit it or not. At least the thief could say it was their profession’s primary mechanic that needed to be so heavily traited, engineers can’t say that.
End of the day, all this recent discussion leads me to think the following about the engineer. You’re only viable if you’re using kits, or one of three or four very specific other builds. You have little to no personalization of the profession, because if you’re not playing one of those few builds then you are nothing but a burden to your guild.
Lets see…there is SD rifle, turret bomber, HGH, healing bombs, or kits. That about cover my options?
there will always be builds that are superior to others. that’s how these games work. if you don’t like them, swap classes. why continue playing a class you don’t enjoy?
there will always be builds that are superior to others. that’s how these games work. if you don’t like them, swap classes. why continue playing a class you don’t enjoy?
I know this is hard for some players to understand, but I don’t do alts. At least not until I have completed all my goals with my main character. Said main character is Arkham Creed. He’s been some form of rogue in every installment of The Elder Scrolls and Dragon Age, he was a ranger in the original Guild Wars, a smuggler in Star Wars The Old Republic, and existed in some form in literally every multiplayer RPG I have played in the last decade.
I know it is entirely in my own head, and not the fault of the game nor the community, but I simply don’t like spending the bulk of my game time and completing the bulk of my in-game goals with any other character. And I can’t stomach the idea of rerolling him again. And even if I did, I’d lose a lot of items that I simply can’t get back. Fused Gauntlets, Shattered Dragon Wings….basically every soul bound living story reward since release. Add to that the fact that the idea of deleting a character with soul bound gem shop armor I paid real money for makes me physically ill. On top of that I am trying to help my fiancee get her legendary, and rerolling will just slow her down and I’d feel like jerk for doing it. In short; simply “playing another character” isn’t an option.
The toolbelt skills on turrets are for when they are down so you won’t be completely defenseless. Turrets also will proc static discharge twice because of the way their tooldbelt works. And in a moment where you would need to pop a stunbreak, destroying thumper turret might not be a bad thing, as it can also knock back your opponent (if you trait for it) and nullifying the need to break the stun, letting you have 1 more stunbreak when you need it
Indeed. I used to have a sPvP build awhile back that used a couple turrets (Healing and Net I think) with that trait. I didn’t pack a stun break, because what I would do is drop my Healing Turret as the fight started, then just fight right on top of it. Warriors/Thieves would come stun me, then I just detonate the turret, getting my heal back and stopping their spike also. It would work a little different today, but the idea you have explained here is more effective than one might think!
You realize this doesn’t actually work, right? If you detonate a turret, it goes on it’s full cooldown. That is, you do not get your heal back after you detonate your healing turret. You must wait 20 seconds before deploying it again.
Why do you think people drop healing turret, immediately overcharge it, then pick it up or detonate it? Because leaving it out serves little purpose other than to give your enemy an advantage. It also means your toolbelt skill isn’t blocked so that you have access to another valuable water field for burst healing. Doing what you described will actually severely limit your ability to sustain yourself and could possibly hand your opponent a victory.
I use rifle turret in my SD build, but it’s generally for the toolbelt skill. I will occasionally deploy the turret, but this is when I am either healing up with the med kit or I need to retreat for a bit. In those cases, it adds DPS while I’m not directly attacking. I generally let the overcharge finish doing it’s stuff, then pick it up or pop it so I can get back to using the toolbelt with static discharge. Surprise shot will be on a 7 second cooldown with full points in tools, so it’s generally not worth the hassle of deploying the turret for direct combat.
The whole masking of the toolbelt abilities when turrets are deployed is a big flaw in their design though. Some of those abilities can provide significant damage output or utility, but you’re forced to remove your ability to use them if you decide you want to use your utility skills. The way I work around them has been to ensure I pop the toolbelt skill before deploying the turret, but this is a very cumbersome restriction to impose on a set of skills.
I mean, imagine if the other skills were like that. I drink elixir S, so I can no longer use the toolbelt skill for 20 seconds. That would just be terrible.
They could solve this by getting rid of the manual detonate functionality. Currently, the turrets are working much like deployable mines as they are turrets. This worked against their design of a limited skill bar because they’ve literally added so many skills to the turrets that you can’t actually fit them all on the skill bar. However, something tells me people would be up in arms about this, especially healing turret users (even though healing turret still has a completely flawed design as a turret).
i understand you put a lot of work into your char. so instead of complaining about what you don’t like about the class, try explaining what you do like and maybe we can help you.
for instance you say you don’t like kits. ok. how about a SD rifle build? no kits. or maybe an hgh rifle/pistol build? no kits. if you run turrets, you’ll just end up disappointed. they are bad. i mean real bad.
You realize this doesn’t actually work, right? If you detonate a turret, it goes on it’s full cooldown. That is, you do not get your heal back after you detonate your healing turret. You must wait 20 seconds before deploying it again.
I think you misunderstood me and went off on a tangent from that misunderstanding. When the turret is detonated, it goes on cooldown allowing you to get your heal back when the cooldown is up. I only meant that you get your heal back (eventually), compared to not getting it back while the turret is down. I never meant you get to heal immediately after detonating.
It was also awhile ago, and turrets didn’t work how they do now. I don’t even know if they had toolbelt skills. It was just a fun build to be able to knock people back while you were stunned, which is what I was replying to. I never said it was an ultra competitive build, but it was pretty effective and fun to ping pong people around.
[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
Jade Quarry
Jade Quarry
(edited by Adamantium.3682)
Well today marks one year since I deleted my thief and created an engineer. And I find myself shaking my head that I have only now realized yet another glaring flaw in the engineer profession. The tool belt is even more useless if you play a turret engineer. I know some will argue with that, but I honestly fail to see how they can do so with a straight face. How can you sit there and honestly tell me that the tool belt is fine, that its skills are worthwhile, when turret engineers can’t even use their tool belt skills?
Please, give me a rational explanation why I should slot the Thumper Turret for the stun break tool belt skill, when that skill gets replaced by “detonate turret” the second I place the kitten thing. Well, I was already reluctant to play a turret build, being merely sick of kits rather than legitimately interested in the skill type, so I guess it is no great loss. Anyone know any decent gadget builds?
Do not use ANY turrets…EVER.
I know this sounds dumb but in the current state they’re garbage.
Team Peenk
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
This will be something of a rant, and somewhat off-topic, and I apologize, but it’s starting to bother me – am I the only person who’s seen what three Turrets do to a single target, and been unimpressed? The way people talk, it’s like they expect the change to targeting to take Turrets from bad to good like hitting a switch.
to take its place, and maximum Condition stacks are shaved down.
I personally don’t believe in running full turrets because I like combos, I like might stacking, I like having more tools to deal with a lot of situations. So I use just 1 turret in some of my builds. The only time I use more than 1 turret is in my turret SD burst build. Very powerful and very effective.
Why I don’t really run the build too often is because sometimes you’re fighting one of those classes with a bunch of Ai things running around but you want to focus on the player but then you have to do CC gymnastics to nail the right guy. Remove all that CC gymnastics and you have a formidable turret engie that actually has to be feared. This is why many of us believe that turrets will become better if not worth complaining about in the upcoming patches.
I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash
i understand you put a lot of work into your char. so instead of complaining about what you don’t like about the class, try explaining what you do like and maybe we can help you.
for instance you say you don’t like kits. ok. how about a SD rifle build? no kits. or maybe an hgh rifle/pistol build? no kits. if you run turrets, you’ll just end up disappointed. they are bad. i mean real bad.
It isn’t so much that I don’t like kits, more that I am just sick of them.
That is my current PvE build. Not the best I know, but it gets the job done. (note that accessories are in flux as I work on getting full celestial ascended) The problem is that I’ve been using it or something similar for a full year now, and I really just need a change to mix it up a bit. Kits are actually the thing that drew me to this profession, and I feel in love with how they allowed to me actually shift roles in combat if I needed to. But spending twelve month with pretty much the exact same skill bar….to put it simply I’m bored.
Well, that is one of my issues with the current kit setup. The other is legendary weapons, or cosmetic progression in general. For months now I’ve been making and bumping threads on the subject to no avail, and have since just given up. In short; I feel like if you play a kit based engineer there is simply no reason to ever both upgrading your weapon, and certainly no reason to go for a legendary. Now don’t get me wrong; I’m not the type to simply has to have the best stats, I don’t care if I’m a little bit behind optimal (obviously), and I certainly have no desire to grind and farm my butt off for a legendary. But I would still like to have one on my main, and like the idea of such a long term goal. So if I happen to log in and have nothing to do, being between living story updates or whatever, I can make a little progress toward my legendary….except that I use kits. I’ll never see the thing, and legendary effects don’t carry over to kits, so there is no point in working so hard for a fancy skin I’ll never see. And with it abundantly clear Arena Net has neither the intention nor desire to ever do anything about this, even implying indirectly that we engineers simply aren’t worth their time, I just gave up on ever seeing a fix to that problem.
That, combined with “kit fatigue” have led me to just give up that build in favor of anything else. But the more I explore my options outside of kits, the more I find questionable or outright broken about this profession, and the more frustrated I become. If I were playing a warrior and I got bored with sword and shield, then there is still something like eighteen other weapon combinations I could try. If I got tired of banners I could try signets or shouts. The engineer is the only profession that has one truly viable skill set with all others being passable at best. I can’t be the only one who sees that as a problem.
well here’s the issue. there are many, many, many builds you can run with an engi, but if you refuse to swap armor stats then you’re just limiting yourself to a few. ok you spent a month crafting celestial armor. i understand. i’m still working on a celestial set for my necro. it’s a pain i know. but if you’re bored, then you have change or you’ll be stuck in a perpetual state of disappointment and forum complaints and you can’t be helped.
well here’s the issue. there are many, many, many builds you can run with an engi, but if you refuse to swap armor stats then you’re just limiting yourself to a few. ok you spent a month crafting celestial armor. i understand. i’m still working on a celestial set for my necro. it’s a pain i know. but if you’re bored, then you have change or you’ll be stuck in a perpetual state of disappointment and forum complaints and you can’t be helped.
On the contrary; the whole point of crafting celestial armor was so that I would be free to change my build as I saw fit. What I didn’t want to run into was not being able to play a direct damage build because I was in tank armor, or not being able to play support because I was in condition damage armor. I’ve already said that I don’t care about being slightly below the curve in any given stat spread. That was why I crafted armor with every stat on it; so I wouldn’t run into “well you can’t do X because you need stat Y.”
so you have gear that you plan on using with every build. how can you be bored then? there are so many builds out there to choose from. tell me what you like about the class and i’ll do my best to help you create a build.
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
This will be something of a rant, and somewhat off-topic, and I apologize, but it’s starting to bother me – am I the only person who’s seen what three Turrets do to a single target, and been unimpressed? The way people talk, it’s like they expect the change to targeting to take Turrets from bad to good like hitting a switch.
to take its place, and maximum Condition stacks are shaved down.
I personally don’t believe in running full turrets because I like combos, I like might stacking, I like having more tools to deal with a lot of situations. So I use just 1 turret in some of my builds. The only time I use more than 1 turret is in my turret SD burst build. Very powerful and very effective.
Why I don’t really run the build too often is because sometimes you’re fighting one of those classes with a bunch of Ai things running around but you want to focus on the player but then you have to do CC gymnastics to nail the right guy. Remove all that CC gymnastics and you have a formidable turret engie that actually has to be feared. This is why many of us believe that turrets will become better if not worth complaining about in the upcoming patches.
Oh, it’ll improve them, I know – people just keep talking like they’re going to be good with just that one change, and I know they won’t be.
so you have gear that you plan on using with every build. how can you be bored then? there are so many builds out there to choose from. tell me what you like about the class and i’ll do my best to help you create a build.
After becoming bored with kits….not much. I dislike that turrets are so riddled with bugs (and I can all but guarantee that impending update won’t help in the slightest) and absolutely loath the idea of having to sacrifice my tool belt if I want to use turrets, or my turrets if I intend to use the tool belt. I know some people argued that point and have proposed strategies to work around that ridiculous limitation, but that whole thing just stinks of set rotations and that puts me off the concept. I want a playstyle that can’t be done equally well by a bot.
Elixirs have been a big part of my character since the beginning, and have no problem continuing to use them….in spite of the fact that I never use their tool belt skills (I don’t see that changing after this update because the tool belt alterations are for only two elixir skills, and as luck would have it they are elixirs I never use anyway), but I seem them as more of a secondary element; I wouldn’t create an entire build solely around their use.
Gadgets…well I admit to having little experience with them. Some of them can be fun to mess around with, like Rocket Boots or Personal Battering Ram, but I find others to be rather bland (Slick Shoes and those goggles). Either way I find that they all have too long cool-downs, even when traited for that, and their tool belt functions are too…..unreliable, if you’re trying for a Static Discharge build.
As far as actual weapons…I hate the off-hand pistol with a passion; one skill feels like a cheap imitation of the much superior flamethrower, and the other has too slow a projectile speed to be of use when enemies are fast approaching and the manual aim is too cumbersome for me to use when enemies get in my face. Same reason I dislike the grenade kit. Main-hand pistol is nice because of all the conditions it causes, but I don’t like how its three skill has a nasty habit of aggroing everything on the map. Then there is the rifle….the damage to attack speed ratio just feels off to me, not really sure why. And beyond that the rest of the skills just feel kind of bland, and I don’t like how Jump Shot roots you at the point of impact after landing. It might be brief, but I like to stay mobile. Then you factor in that its one bleed proc is so mild as to make it a definite damage weapon, but that just means it is only worthwhile as a Sitting Duck or Static Discharge weapon, and making the most of those both require at least the net turret, and I’ve already covered my thoughts on turrets.
Shield….I like the shield. I like blocking projectiles and knocking back melee enemies. And the daze when attacked/projectile daze is a handy skill to use. Definitely a bright spot in out weapon selection.
“Well today marks one year since I deleted my thief and created an engineer. And I find myself shaking my head that I have only now realized yet another glaring flaw in the engineer profession.”
i wonder how much credibility as an engineer you have left after having played engi 1 time in the past years, loggin into the class 1 time for 5 mins is all it takes to realize your shocking discovery
Engineer forums are suppose to be to help new players, share ideas and have constructive convos, not a place to seek attention by shouting random stuff..
“Well today marks one year since I deleted my thief and created an engineer. And I find myself shaking my head that I have only now realized yet another glaring flaw in the engineer profession.”
i wonder how much credibility as an engineer you have left after having played engi 1 time in the past years, loggin into the class 1 time for 5 mins is all it takes to realize your shocking discovery
Engineer forums are suppose to be to help new players, share ideas and have constructive convos, not a place to seek attention by shouting random stuff..
Forgive me for hearing about all the bugs turrets faced early and never bothering to use them until now. You don’t get to level eighty, have a full set of soul-bound, time gated, craft only armor, nearly a million karma, and eighty percent world completion by “logging into the class one time for five minutes.” You know what assumptions make you right? Its in the word.
here are some out of the box builds that i’ve used in the past that i’ve found success with or have just been really fun (smacking things with a wrench). i modified them to use celestial armor. naturally your stats won’t be optimal with celestial gear but you said you were ok with that so here goes.
gadget/toolkit+rifle dps
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIq6dX7SyF87IyoHkmo1ZgeAY+1IKqQ+B-jgxAoeAyCQyvIasFyioxqqJiq11YA-e
pistol/shield variant:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6dX7SyF87IyoHkmo1ZgeAY81IKqQ+B-jwxAo+ASWAICgJ/ioxWILiGrqmIqWXjBA-e
hgh double pistol
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspSXnvShF87ICoH5FfNiie8YU2k9pAbB-jQCBoeBkyAgIAM5rIas1hht6KalXBRVjIqWXDDA-e
rifle variant:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlspSXnvShF87ICoH5lfNiie8YU2k9pAbB-jACBoeAUGAJfFRjtOMsVXRr8KIqaER16aYA-e
these are pve builds for the pvp fanatics who will most definitely come in to criticize. obviously none of these are meta builds of any sort, but being the hipster that i am, i don’t care for meta builds. i’ve cleared dungeons and killed teq with these without any complaints even from elitist zerk warriors so they work fine.
that’s even worse…
if you’ve never used skills because you heard they are “bad”, that means you havent tried over 50% of the engineer skills (including healing turret which is a standard for engineers now days ), soooooo……. by assumption, i could guess you’ve ran the same build for the past year, and since you think toolbelt is “bad”, that build is something like nades + elixirs… which would then explain ur dislike for the toolbelt mechanic due to your “limited” knowledge of the class
that’s even worse…
if you’ve never used skills because you heard they are “bad”, that means you havent tried over 50% of the engineer skills (including healing turret which is a standard for engineers now days ), soooooo……. by assumption, i could guess you’ve ran the same build for the past year, and since you think toolbelt is “bad”, that build is something like nades + elixirs… which would then explain ur dislike for the toolbelt mechanic due to your “limited” knowledge of the class
I didn’t hear they were bad, I heard they were broken. And that was confirmed by the nearly two dozen bugs the set is riddled with. And I never said I didn’t like the tool belt, I said it was underpowered and overshadowed by our utility skills. Clearly you have nothing to add to this discussion but snide remarks and accusations without feeling the need to know what in the kitten you’re talking about, so kindly remove yourself from this thread. Trolls are unwelcome.
well if you use thumper turret for the stunbreak then logic dictates you wouldn’t place the turret down in the first place.
Who should you have to choose one over the other? I see no other class having to choose between effectively using their utilities or their class mechanic.
The engineers entire class mechanic is flawed beyond even reasonable functionality, stop defending it. The only reason we even have builds is because of the grace of two functional kits and a few traits that are far too powerful for how early they are found in the trait trees.
Mesmer. =p
Actually, the way turrets work are a lot like Phantasms.
Either keep them out for more overall DPS/effect gain, or detonate them for more upfront Dmg/effect.
(edited by Knote.2904)
Well, they could always just swap detonate and overcharge
Actually, the way turrets work are a lot like Phantasms.
Either keep them out for more overall DPS/effect gain, or detonate them for more upfront Dmg/effect.
Personally I think they should simply remove detonate from the tool belt and make it a chain skill with the turret itself. Most players tend to detonate their turrets after overcharging them anyway, so just have the detonate option appear after overcharging. Since there may be players who want to keep their turrets up and overcharge them multiple times, just make it available turning the overcharge cool-down cycle; sort of like how the thief’s Shadow Return is only available for a few moments after using shadow step.
For example you place a Healing Turret, and the skill changes to the overcharge Cleansing Burst. Then you active Cleansing Burst and the skill changes again to Detonate Healing Turret for Cleansing Burst’s cool-down, giving the player a fifteen second window to detonate the turret and take advantage of the combo field that overcharging creates. Plenty of time considering that most detonate immediately after overcharging anyway.
Well, they could always just swap detonate and overcharge
Actually, the way turrets work are a lot like Phantasms.
Either keep them out for more overall DPS/effect gain, or detonate them for more upfront Dmg/effect.
Personally I think they should simply remove detonate from the tool belt and make it a chain skill with the turret itself. Most players tend to detonate their turrets after overcharging them anyway, so just have the detonate option appear after overcharging. Since there may be players who want to keep their turrets up and overcharge them multiple times, just make it available turning the overcharge cool-down cycle; sort of like how the thief’s Shadow Return is only available for a few moments after using shadow step.
For example you place a Healing Turret, and the skill changes to the overcharge Cleansing Burst. Then you active Cleansing Burst and the skill changes again to Detonate Healing Turret for Cleansing Burst’s cool-down, giving the player a fifteen second window to detonate the turret and take advantage of the combo field that overcharging creates. Plenty of time considering that most detonate immediately after overcharging anyway.
Yeah exactly, that’s what I meant to say, well put.
Detonate after overcharge would be good, only downside is it would hide the cooldown on Overcharge.
Well, they could always just swap detonate and overcharge
Actually, the way turrets work are a lot like Phantasms.
Either keep them out for more overall DPS/effect gain, or detonate them for more upfront Dmg/effect.
Personally I think they should simply remove detonate from the tool belt and make it a chain skill with the turret itself. Most players tend to detonate their turrets after overcharging them anyway, so just have the detonate option appear after overcharging. Since there may be players who want to keep their turrets up and overcharge them multiple times, just make it available turning the overcharge cool-down cycle; sort of like how the thief’s Shadow Return is only available for a few moments after using shadow step.
For example you place a Healing Turret, and the skill changes to the overcharge Cleansing Burst. Then you active Cleansing Burst and the skill changes again to Detonate Healing Turret for Cleansing Burst’s cool-down, giving the player a fifteen second window to detonate the turret and take advantage of the combo field that overcharging creates. Plenty of time considering that most detonate immediately after overcharging anyway.
Yeah exactly, that’s what I meant to say, well put.
Detonate after overcharge would be good, only downside is it would hide the cooldown on Overcharge.
Not if it resets like Shadow Return does. In that way detonate would be the cool down on overcharge. Returning to the above example with Healing Turret; the detonate option would only be available while the overcharge is on cool-down, hence the “fifteen second window” comment.
snip
snip
I think I understand. I don’t play much PvE, so it’s a bit difficult for me to see things from your points of view. Remember that many of the engineers giving advice are primarily PvP/WvW players. It seems you guys are somewhat picky in what you would like your experience in the game to be, and the rest of us are just telling you what works or doesn’t work.
Also remember that the targeting fix will be huge for PvP. I guess it doesn’t matter to much what your turrets shoot in PvE, but in PvP it is crucial. There’s no reason to make more out of a disagreement than is actually there—just clarify what you’re looking for (turrets as sustained dps/utility in PvE) and everyone will understand what you’re after.
Turrets are not designed to stand long. Place turret, overcharge, detonate. That’s how it is meant to be. No tower defense in gw2.
I disagree, if that was the case they wouldnt have such long cool downs. Look at Mesmers for example – Now they can some Clones and Phantasms ALOT most of them have >20second cool downs. They do MORE damage, cause MORE conditions and can be used in various ways with the shatter system
Surely if ours were meant to be a use and destroy system such as is the case with the Mesmer clones and Phantasms ours wouldnt be on such long cool downs, they would be doing great damage.
Anyone that runs a Turret build in my opinion is running at like 50-75% effectiveness when it comes to Engineers.
Just throwing this out here for the PvE players getting their hopes up about this so-called turret fix. All they are doing is adding a bit of code that every other pet type in the game has had since release; nothing more, and certainly not fixing anything. Having turrets prioritize your target might be a boon in PvP, but it won’t fix the problems of PvE. Primarily the world boss targeting issue. Basically if there is some bug in the code that prevents turrets from seeing world bosses as viable targets in the first place, this “fix” will do nothing to resolve that issue. In fact it will probably break turrets even more.
Please, give me a rational explanation why I should slot the Thumper Turret for the stun break tool belt skill, when that skill gets replaced by “detonate turret” the second I place the kitten thing.
That’s easy. You traited well so you have knockback on turret explosion and static discharge. You eat a long stun because you missed a dodge. It’s all right, happens to the best of us.
Next instant, you have knocked your enemy back, dealt damage from the explosion, dealt damage again from the static discharge, and can either break the stun and deal damage two more times or wait it out, since you just used a knockback.
Your stunbreaker knocks your opponent back and deals 3k-6k multiple target damage. What’s the problem, again? Oh, you also got 20% of your endurance back. I know you’re a PvEer more than a PvPer so let’s say you’re also standing on some combo fields (pretty likely if you’re stacked up on a boss or something). Boom—two blast finishers. On your stunbreak.
Seriously, turrets have been broken for a while but they’re about to become pretty good with the new targeting patch.
Translation; turrets and their effect on the tool belt is complete and utter, indefensible crap unless you heavily trait for a specific turret play style that by its very nature undermines the whole point of placing a turret in the first place.
That is the other reason I left the thief; the profession was only really viable if you made heavy use of steal, and that only worked if you traited heavily for the bonus effects of steal. That sort of thing really limits build diversity no matter if you want to admit it or not. At least the thief could say it was their profession’s primary mechanic that needed to be so heavily traited, engineers can’t say that.
Well, first of all, I would consider that playstyle an excellent utilization of turrets; they don’t have to be “drop and forget.” I would even argue that it’s better to have detonation as an important mechanic, since it encourages more proactive play.
Second, you have to trait heavily to get the maximum impact out of any build, in any class. Otherwise, what is the point of having traits at all?
#ELEtism
By Ogden’s hammer, what savings!
By Ogden’s hammer, what savings!
Second, you have to trait heavily to get the maximum impact out of any build, in any class. Otherwise, what is the point of having traits at all?
Traits are meant to make something better, not just “viable” Turrets are far from it in my opinion, even when traited they are still very weak. Still take alot of damage, die easily, not mobile and dont do enough damage.
Just throwing this out here for the PvE players getting their hopes up about this so-called turret fix. All they are doing is adding a bit of code that every other pet type in the game has had since release; nothing more, and certainly not fixing anything. Having turrets prioritize your target might be a boon in PvP, but it won’t fix the problems of PvE. Primarily the world boss targeting issue. Basically if there is some bug in the code that prevents turrets from seeing world bosses as viable targets in the first place, this “fix” will do nothing to resolve that issue. In fact it will probably break turrets even more.
You’re just a glass half-empty kind of guy, aren’t you?
[EG] Ethereal Guardians
Snip.
You’re just a glass half-empty kind of guy, aren’t you?
That wasn’t to me, but as he’s essentially saying the same thing I’ve said:
It’s hard to be optimistic about Turrets in PvE. Or Turrets in general, really – especially when they start trying to change things about them. I’ve noticed, after all, that people report very few new Turret bugs when patches don’t do anything to them, while patches that change anything about Turrets lead to reports of several new ones.
While correlation is not causation, and it’s entirely possible that people discover ancient, but unknown, bugs while using Turrets to see if they like them after the patch more than they did before, I think it’s pretty likely that they just keep causing bugs when they change Turrets.
Depending on how they set the turret target thing up (as in, does it just attack the last thing the Engineer damaged, regardless of what it actually is, or does it only target enemies?), the change to targeting may fix the World Boss issue or it may break something else. Maybe Turrets will (ineffectually) attack their users as soon as the user takes damage. At this point, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised, because they just don’t seem to have a clue how to get them running properly and keep them there.
Even if it does fix the bug, I’m not going to be jumping for joy – they’re doing their jobs, nothing more, and they’re not even doing those well, considering how long (at least a couple months; it was in evidence for a while before I made the list of twenty godkitten bugs they’ve let sprout up) the bug has been in evidence. They didn’t even bother to get Turrets attacking all World Bosses before the big revamp of said World Bosses.
Should PvE Turret Engineers be cheering at the mention of a potential, indirect bugfix, which can allow them to actually use their skills to damage World Bosses like Tequatl, focus of the latest Living Story, like any other godkitten build even if it comes a month after said World Bosses are revamped, and, being indirect, may not even resolve the issue? Why would we be cheering? To make them want to fix our bugs faster? They won’t, or we wouldn’t have twenty, at last count, cheering or no.
Come to think of it, I may need to check how many Turret bugfixes there’ve been. I have a nagging feeling we may have more bugs than fixes, but this might be that I didn’t consider people doing their jobs as noteworthy as people not doing so.
Edit: Actually just finished going through the Game Release notes to check. Results will be in my next post.
So…you can call me, and him, pessimists if you want, I honestly don’t care, as I admit that I am – but their track record ain’t exactly inspiring any particular confidence that isn’t ’They’ll muck something up.’
When somebody drops a ball most times you hand it to them, you start expecting it, is the way I see it.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
Just throwing this out here for the PvE players getting their hopes up about this so-called turret fix. All they are doing is adding a bit of code that every other pet type in the game has had since release; nothing more, and certainly not fixing anything. Having turrets prioritize your target might be a boon in PvP, but it won’t fix the problems of PvE. Primarily the world boss targeting issue. Basically if there is some bug in the code that prevents turrets from seeing world bosses as viable targets in the first place, this “fix” will do nothing to resolve that issue. In fact it will probably break turrets even more.
You’re just a glass half-empty kind of guy, aren’t you?
Well what do you think is going to happen if your turret has one line of code telling it to attack something that another line of code says it can’t attack? At best it will glitch and lock up, just sitting there without doing anything. Worst case; it glitches so badly that it crashes your client. Now wouldn’t that be fun after standing around for three hours waiting for their new Elder Undead Dragon (that way they have an excuse to not update Orr) to spawn?
As mentioned above, here are all Turret Bugfixes I’ve found in the Game Release notes; I commented on some in brackets.
Rocket Turret: This turret can now be detonated underwater.
Harpoon Turret: This turret will now spawn at the engineer when the Deployable Turrets trait is equipped.
Net Turret: Fixed an issue where spamming Net Turret would allow it to fire the electrified net three times in a row. [Now it occasionally simply doesn’t fire.]
Rifled Turret Barrels: This trait no longer makes Rocket Turret fire invisible rockets.
Explosive Powder: This trait now functions with detonating turrets. [Uncertain if this is a bugfix or a balance change.]
Steel-Packed Powder trait: Now applies when detonating turrets. [Uncertain if this is a bugfix or a balance change.]
Fixed a bug that prevented certain traits from functioning correctly, including Rifled Turret Barrels, Metal Plating, and Autotool Installation. [Note: Rifled Turret Barrels still doesn’t function correctly, and this change was listed twice in the Game Release Notes, on May 14th’s thread and May 28th’s thread.]
Flame Turret skill: Now has the proper recharge when the Deployable Turrets trait is equipped. [They somehow didn’t hit the Deployable version of Flame Turret with the cooldown reduction on the patch before.]
Picking up a turret no longer triggers effects from the Accelerant-Packed Turrets and Shrapnel traits.
Deployable Turrets: This trait now works for all turret abilities in PvE. Also fixed a bug that caused engineers to have an incorrect tool belt skill when this trait is active.
Healing Turret: Fixed issues with this skill’s description when the Deployable Turrets trait was equipped. [This was actually the fix for the incorrect toolbelt skill, as I recall.]
Removed collision from engineer turrets that were causing player pathing issues. [Not sure if this is a bugfix, but I’ll be generous.]
Mortar: This skill is now properly affected by the Inventions trait Rifled Turret Barrels. [I guess this makes Mortar technically a Turret, so I guess this counts?]
That’s a total of 13, several of them (3) ambiguous as to whether they’re balance or bugfix, and one that still doesn’t work right.
Now, I suppose the Fire Rate bugs can be compressed, but that still leaves Turrets with 15. If the ‘review’ they’re supposedly doing on it says that this isn’t a bug, somehow, then we’ll still only be breaking even.
(edited by Anymras.5729)
Well, they could always just swap detonate and overcharge
Actually, the way turrets work are a lot like Phantasms.
Either keep them out for more overall DPS/effect gain, or detonate them for more upfront Dmg/effect.
Personally I think they should simply remove detonate from the tool belt and make it a chain skill with the turret itself.
I think if they did that, this conversation would be about how they should move the detonate button to the toolbelt because you’re losing a utility slot.
I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
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