Guild Wars 2

Since this is a long post explaining my opinion on Engineer healing together with how I found the healing turret bug, I’ll put the TL;DR here on top.

TL;DR: As long as the healing turret is able to die in any way, shape or form, don’t ever use the healing turret as a turret. Press 3 buttons to drop, overcharge and pick up or detonate. This is also quite unfair as no profession needs to press 3 buttons to get a heal.

My story including how I found this bug goes here:

Up until now, I have been using the Med Kit instead of the Healing Turret. Two main problems bugged me by using the Med Kit. The first one is that I cannot remove immobilize from myself since Drop Antidote is not consumed until I can walk into it, which I cannot do while immobilized. The second problem is that it takes way too long for me to do a full heal with the Med Kit. I have to use Bandage Self and then 3 uses of Drop Bandages which takes me away from combat for far too long. Sure it heals really well if it’s all you do as shown here, but that does not take into account the amount of time you are out of combat.

So I wanted a change and had to decide between Elixir H or Healing Turret. Since I was not going to trait for Cleaning Formula 409 and I would have no option to remove conditions, I decided to try out Healing Turret. So I read the changes Anet has done to it and how they mentioned the changes should make it be more compeling to keep it out instead destroying it or picking it back up right away. So I start using it this way and I noticed I started dying a lot more in WvW. I never had my heal available I started to think I was playing really bad. I even thought that I was just not used to the new timing for the turret.

So at this point I start to watch some people playing with the Healing Turrent and they always blow it up right away. I started doing so and I started to do much better. The main problem is that I’m back to the very cumbersome heal of dropping the turret, overcharging it and then either picking it up or detonating it. Why should I press 3 buttons every time I need to heal (and lose time doing so) when no other profession in the game has to do this?

So I found the reason why you should never, Ever, EVER leave the Turret out.

Even if we disconsider that leaving the healing turret out is the worst heal the engineer could do as reported here, this chart considers ideal conditions which are really hard to obtain. First of all, we know that turrets die way too easy because of their lack of armor and hitpoints. We also know that the hitbox is bugged, which makes it even more likely for it to be destroyed as reported here. Now for the icing in the cake. Consider the following situation. You drop your healing turret and overcharge. Now you have a 15 second delay to be able to overcharge again. Now say that the healing turret dies exactly 14.99 seconds after you used overcharge (I noticed because I was looking at it waiting to use the overcharge again and it happened to me). So now, after the 15 second wait to use your healing skill, the healing turret cooldown is reset and you’ll have to wait 20 extra seconds to use it again. This made the total cooldown on using your lackluster healing to 35 seconds total (14.99 seconds waiting for the overcharge cooldown + 20 seconds of the healint turret cooldown).

So there you have it. Don’t ever leave the healing turret out. If it gets destroyed (which you know it will), then every second you left it out is a longer cooldown you will have to wait.

So don’t ever leave it out. You are only crippling yourself. Now you only have two options to use it. You drop, overcharge and either pick it back up or you detonate it. If you don’t you are only increasing the cooldown in your healing. So again, just like the Med Kit, a single use of a heal with the healing turret must be accomplished with 3 button presses and not being able to move freely if you decide to pick it up. Does any other profession in the game have this problem with healing skills?

Please fix this Anet. We need better healing options…

I would say that its not bugged, turrets are just lackluster in PvP (this is not always true and does not include putting the healing turret out, overcharging, then detonating/picking it up). The turret is semi-viable when left out in PvE, but almost never in PvP.

I don’t really mind the the button presses except when I want to pick it up but its next to a dead person so of course I have to resurrect instead of just picking it up.

Only change I’d like is to give priority to the turret pick up. Other than that I actually like and use the new turret a ton in both PvE and PvP.

Victoitor.2917:

1)This is also quite unfair as no profession needs to press 3 buttons to get a heal.

2)I cannot remove immobilize from myself since Drop Antidote is not consumed until I can walk into it, which I cannot do while immobilized.

3)Sure it heals really well if it’s all you do as shown here, but that does not take into account the amount of time you are out of combat.

4)Why should I press 3 buttons every time I need to heal (and lose time doing so) when no other profession in the game has to do this?

5)Even if we disconsider that leaving the healing turret out is the worst heal the engineer could do as reported here, this chart considers ideal conditions which are really hard to obtain.

6)Consider the following situation. You drop your healing turret and overcharge. Now you have a 15 second delay to be able to overcharge again. Now say that the healing turret dies exactly 14.99 seconds after you used overcharge (I noticed because I was looking at it waiting to use the overcharge again and it happened to me). So now, after the 15 second wait to use your healing skill, the healing turret cooldown is reset and you’ll have to wait 20 extra seconds to use it again. This made the total cooldown on using your lackluster healing to 35 seconds total (14.99 seconds waiting for the overcharge cooldown + 20 seconds of the healing turret cooldown).

So there you have it. Don’t ever leave the healing turret out. If it gets destroyed (which you know it will), then every second you left it out is a longer cooldown you will have to wait.

7) Does any other profession in the game have this problem with healing skills?

8) We need better healing options…

1) I do not have the time right now to compare all of the healing skills in the game. But if you ask me hard enough, one day, I just might. However, I can tell you this: All professions are not created equal. So, erase the concept of “fairness” from your mind in terms of balance. It’s not about fairness, it’s about effectiveness. Not many healing skills can grant you 7K HP, Fury, Swiftness, and Cleanse a Condition without Healing Power. Nor can they Heal you for 5k, your team for 2.5k, and then remove 2 conditions from up to 5 people in range, while providing a Water Field for additional Combo Finisher abuse. They just don’t. If all you want is simple healing, Elixir H is your best bet. If you want Condition Cleansing attached, then you’re going to have to either trait or use something with a bit more effort (i.e. The other two Healing Skills) That’s the give and take of being an Engineer.

2) With 20p in Tools, you can throw the contents of the Med Kit. I’ve never used it myself because it felt like extra work, but there was someone who said that it was perfect for their build because they can Throw Antidote right where they stood and cleanse immobilize.

3)Hey, I made that chart! But no, it doesn’t take that into account. It’s really just raw data without any assumptions on your situation. Immobilize can kill the timing of your full heal of Med Kit, Boon Removal can cripple the benefits that HT and Elixir H give you. But the chart can’t predict your future. That’s up to you and your opponents.

4)You don’t have to. You can go Elixir H and have everything simple.

5) Don’t neglect the fact that the untraited Elixir H in question is granting you regeneration every single time, and that only wins by 50. If it becomes Swiftness or Protection even once, you aren’t healing as much. But you’re right, those are perfect, ideal conditions that aren’t necessarily feasible. Leaving out the Healing Turret assumes that it stays out and doesn’t die for a full 60s.

6)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA.. ha.. ahem. Yes, that’s absolutely unfortunate. And that’s the same reason why everyone believes that picking up your kit immediately after overcharge is better than leaving it out. It’s less susceptible to damage while also being a stronger heal for you in the long run. Also, you left out the 0.5s cast time that it takes to drop the turret, so it’s really 35.5s

7)Who knows? You would have to play them and see.

8)The options we have are pretty good and fit a variety of playstyles. What we really need is a buff to turret armor and HP. Especially the Healing Turret which has the least amount of health of them all.

Nilix.2170:

1) I do not have the time right now to compare all of the healing skills in the game. But if you ask me hard enough, one day, I just might. However, I can tell you this: All professions are not created equal. So, erase the concept of “fairness” from your mind in terms of balance. It’s not about fairness, it’s about effectiveness. Not many healing skills can grant you 7K HP, Fury, Swiftness, and Cleanse a Condition without Healing Power. Nor can they Heal you for 5k, your team for 2.5k, and then remove 2 conditions from up to 5 people in range, while providing a Water Field for additional Combo Finisher abuse. They just don’t. If all you want is simple healing, Elixir H is your best bet. If you want Condition Cleansing attached, then you’re going to have to either trait or use something with a bit more effort (i.e. The other two Healing Skills) That’s the give and take of being an Engineer.

2) With 20p in Tools, you can throw the contents of the Med Kit. I’ve never used it myself because it felt like extra work, but there was someone who said that it was perfect for their build because they can Throw Antidote right where they stood and cleanse immobilize.

3)Hey, I made that chart! But no, it doesn’t take that into account. It’s really just raw data without any assumptions on your situation. Immobilize can kill the timing of your full heal of Med Kit, Boon Removal can cripple the benefits that HT and Elixir H give you. But the chart can’t predict your future. That’s up to you and your opponents.

4)You don’t have to. You can go Elixir H and have everything simple.

5) Don’t neglect the fact that the untraited Elixir H in question is granting you regeneration every single time, and that only wins by 50. If it becomes Swiftness or Protection even once, you aren’t healing as much. But you’re right, those are perfect, ideal conditions that aren’t necessarily feasible. Leaving out the Healing Turret assumes that it stays out and doesn’t die for a full 60s.

6)AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA.. ha.. ahem. Yes, that’s absolutely unfortunate. And that’s the same reason why everyone believes that picking up your kit immediately after overcharge is better than leaving it out. It’s less susceptible to damage while also being a stronger heal for you in the long run. Also, you left out the 0.5s cast time that it takes to drop the turret, so it’s really 35.5s

7)Who knows? You would have to play them and see.

8)The options we have are pretty good and fit a variety of playstyles. What we really need is a buff to turret armor and HP. Especially the Healing Turret which has the least amount of health of them all.

Thanks for the reply and you’re right that Med Kit has many advantages. I just came back to using it instead of the healing turret. I could have posted just the problem with the Healing Turret itself, but I ended up posting about other complaints I have. The Med Kit one is something that does bother me in combat, but it does bring a lot to the table. Maybe I should have just written about the Healing Turret since it’s the main focus of this thread.

About the Healing Turret, Anet stated that they wanted for it to stay out and for it to be used as a turret, and not for it to be blown up right after you use it. The main topic of this thread (which is what I put into the TL;DR) is the Healing Turret viability to be used as a turret and to stay out. It’s just not viable at all. Actually, even if it had much more armor and much more health, the moment it’s destroyed, it can greatly increase the cooldown between your heals. 35.5s is just too much. Seems broken to me.

Nilix.2170:

Victoitor.2917:

1)This is also quite unfair as no profession needs to press 3 buttons to get a heal.

1) I do not have the time right now to compare all of the healing skills in the game. But if you ask me hard enough, one day, I just might. However, I can tell you this: All professions are not created equal. So, erase the concept of “fairness” from your mind in terms of balance. It’s not about fairness, it’s about effectiveness. Not many healing skills can grant you 7K HP, Fury, Swiftness, and Cleanse a Condition without Healing Power. Nor can they Heal you for 5k, your team for 2.5k, and then remove 2 conditions from up to 5 people in range, while providing a Water Field for additional Combo Finisher abuse. They just don’t. If all you want is simple healing, Elixir H is your best bet. If you want Condition Cleansing attached, then you’re going to have to either trait or use something with a bit more effort (i.e. The other two Healing Skills) That’s the give and take of being an Engineer.

If it’s your only option, why would you need to press 3 buttons to do your normal heal? Sure you get used to it, but isn’t it even a bit weird?

It’s not my only option. I also don’t have to press all three to heal. I can simply press my toolkit for a good 4.9k amount. Or I can use two med packs for a smaller 2k heal. Or perhaps drop 3 in one place, come back 20s later, consume all, +my regular heal and the next 3 off of cooldown for a considerable burst of HP (10.9k assuming no Healing Power). It’s a kit that drops bandages and for all of its required micromanaging, you gain a lot of functionality that you wouldn’t get if it were as simple as any other classes heal. Pressing three buttons may seem like a downside, but how many of them can physically save their heal for later? How many can give portions of their normal heal to other players? With extra work comes additional utility and additional ways to affect the situation of the battlefield.

And yes, what you say is true. Healing Turret, both in its current and former form, rewarded picking your turret up and detonating it over leaving it on the ground. But that’s ArenaNet’s problem, not mine. We are Engineers. Engineers exist to solve problems. And we do so using the tools we have in the best way that we can. If leaving it out isn’t reliable enough, then I’ll detonate or pick it up. And I’ll keep doing this until leaving it out becomes a reliable option… or I’ll just use the Med Kit. I love the Med Kit.

You can’t just say that something will work because you made it with that idea in mind. It has to be executed, tested, and then evaluated. That’s the magic of game design: What you believe will happen, and what actually happens are often two different things.