Guild Wars 2

Our technology is ancient compared to what we see in the world; just look at scarlets minions.
When you guys add stuff in the future, make it more like that technology!

Heh. Would like a minor engineer profession overhaul after Scarlets been dealt with. You know, vivisecting her creations might yield some interesting insights into new technological developments that engies would be unwise not to explore.

Yeah… We got megalasers and kitten mechanical Killing machines that repair themselves and the engineer profession still trys to be a technologial avantgarde by using gunpowder…

im always green in envy if i see the twisted clockwork stuff…man id give an arm and a leg to have armor, turrets, kits and weapons designed like those things. They got gears… GEARS for kitten sake! Man.. alone to have some armors or backpieces or whatever with spinning gears available would make my day…well one can dream i suppose.

Add a post-scarlet auto-tool intallation effect: Turrets repair themselves after being destroyed in x time if destroyed by an enemy. X is half their normal coolown. There. Now we have reliable turrets that are up with the times.

Mh…. I can’t help but imagine a laser gun attached to moving legs (new rifle turret) that if destroyed scatters into swarming minature clockwork spiders (new detonation animation) :O

cylon eye helmet anet pls

Yeah, hope Arena Net gives more thoughts into this. Maybe give us kits that reflect the abilities of Scarlet’s technology.

Grenades that lob accurately at 1500 range aren’t haxing reality?

Excuse me, while I go barf some of my ancient gooness.

The problem with this is that the lore of the engineer class is that they specifically use charr tech. Not just any tech. other races are just now starting to slowly incorporate their own tech into the class, by way of racials. I don’t see how it would make sense that an entire class based around charr tech would suddenly be proficient with the tech of scarlet

they wont any nice things like that anyways.. so whats the point XD

Dustfinger.9510:

The problem with this is that the lore of the engineer class is that they specifically use charr tech. Not just any tech. other races are just now starting to slowly incorporate their own tech into the class, by way of racials. I don’t see how it would make sense that an entire class based around charr tech would suddenly be proficient with the tech of scarlet

Technically their technology is no longer limited to charr tech. The new heal skill clearly has a more asuran influence. Personally, I hope they continue to add more multi-racial tech because if any race can be an engi then engis should be able to use the tech of any technologically advanced race. Also, in my opinion: guns, bombs and grenades are boring when compared to asura and Scarlet tech and reflect reality too closely… and sometimes not enough (I’m looking at you bombs… the last thing I want to see is my character laying eggs that explode underneath them.) Why can’t we have a variety?

indeed the bombs are quite lame they can be useful sometimes but could use a change and my idea for the engie turrets would be to make them or multi-race like someone said before OR focused on a race individually like if they are charr focused give them a little boost to visuals bam done for charr asura i dont even need to say golem-like turrets!
Human style version plant turrets and on norn! TURRETS WITH THE SPIRITS ON THE DESIGN “raven rifle turret” “Sleopard flame turret” and stuff like that!

i feel the same about necro minions despite this not being the necro discussion thread u start from lvl 1 to 80 with the SAME MINIONS EVERY TIME they dont change they should “upgrade” visually as you progress…

True enough, i seem to remember that GW1 Necromancer minions grew in size slightly with the more points in Death Magic. GW2 necros deserve no less.

As for engies and our own would-be well deserved aesthetic upgrade to reflect a technologically developing world….

yeah…. hobo-sacks. Minor issue. Never fixed or addressed. So aaa…not gonna happen.

Would be cool though.

It’s laughable at best that the Engineers of GW2 are using outdated technology while there is easy accessable superior technology available.
Story wise we are “the commander”, with only Trahaerne above us, yet we are running in with outdated technology while the troops below us are using vastly superior tech, makes no sense story wise nor lore wise.

Especially if you now see Scarlett running in with vastly superior tech as well, yet here comes the hero of the day, the commander, wielding a deadly hobo sack and a turret that looks like it was made over 50 years ago, what a joke.

Outdated technology? Seriously? Outdated compared to what? Compared to the arcane and ancient magics of some other professions?

I see entirely too many hypocritical names on this list who posted on the “I demand we have hammers” thread, or in the threads in which you discussed how you feel we should use maces or bows. As if that is some grand demand that will further our technological advance. Either way, it is laughable to see posters complain about there inaccurate perception of the professions technology level after demanding we be permitted to fight with dark age weapons.

So what is so ancient about our technology again? We have James bond style rocket boots and slick shoes. We have rifles and pistols far ahead of today’s fire arms, that can fire completely different rounds.

We have turrets that all though their traits are all buggy, work better and completely unmanned then anything current governments make.

We have elixirs that surpass today’s pharmaceutical developments.

The hobo sack is no different then what our current military soldiers wear on the march, so although they may be a bad aesthetic in game, to claim they are an “out dated joke” is a bit uneducated of a statement.

We have ruffles that can fire nets, slugs, and spread shot.

We have laser technology today.Just because every Johnny Comelately doesn’t have one, does that mean what they do have is out dated. Similarly, just because something exist in game in rare and limited situations, doesn’t mean everything else is out dated.

As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

The basic Pact technology that was released with the game looks more advanced than engineer tech. It doesnt take Scarlet’s beutifully animated watchwork abominations to see that a rifle turret that has a topload for fist-big round bullets is more like a joke than actual technology. And dont bring turret targeting AI into the arguement. As far as i see, mindless necromantic rats have more sense in them.

coglin.1867:

As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

Way to go missing the post right above you and ignoring the fact that “pact” weaponry is far superior, but i guess there is no good retort for that one huh

JoxerNL.3752:

coglin.1867:

As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

Way to go missing the post right above you and ignoring the fact that “pact” weaponry is far superior, but i guess there is no good retort for that one huh

Wait, what? What point did I miss? What part of my post says anything about the pact not having some advanced weaponry? I never even mentioned them.

My post simply encompasses the fact that comparatively, nothing the engineers use is particularly out dated. Especially when you figure in the fact that engineers avoid and dislike magic, and some of the assumed technology in the game is actually magi-tech. Which makes it not so technical as magical.

coglin.1867:

Outdated technology? Seriously? Outdated compared to what? Compared to the arcane and ancient magics of some other professions?

I see entirely too many hypocritical names on this list who posted on the “I demand we have hammers” thread, or in the threads in which you discussed how you feel we should use maces or bows. As if that is some grand demand that will further our technological advance. Either way, it is laughable to see posters complain about there inaccurate perception of the professions technology level after demanding we be permitted to fight with dark age weapons.

So what is so ancient about our technology again? We have James bond style rocket boots and slick shoes. We have rifles and pistols far ahead of today’s fire arms, that can fire completely different rounds.

We have turrets that all though their traits are all buggy, work better and completely unmanned then anything current governments make.

We have elixirs that surpass today’s pharmaceutical developments.

The hobo sack is no different then what our current military soldiers wear on the march, so although they may be a bad aesthetic in game, to claim they are an “out dated joke” is a bit uneducated of a statement.

We have ruffles that can fire nets, slugs, and spread shot.

We have laser technology today.Just because every Johnny Comelately doesn’t have one, does that mean what they do have is out dated. Similarly, just because something exist in game in rare and limited situations, doesn’t mean everyt?hing else is out dated.

As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

Stop comparing in-game examples to real life technology when gauging how ‘advanced’ our Engineer tech should be now. It doesn’t work. It’s just bad. You can’t compare ‘ancient and arcane magics’ in one line and then move onto referencing current day pharmaceuticals in the next.

People are arguing that in terms of lore, a precedent has been set and that the issue is that it’s not in any respect retroactive. It’s like, have we not heard of reverse-engineering before? What Scarlet has been using the entire time?

I’m not necessarily arguing ~for~ any changes, as nice as they would be, but I do see where people are coming from, and it wouldn’t hurt. There’s no point in impending possible progress, aesthetic of otherwise, of the Engineer class just for the sake of it.

(And this is beyond the point but I’ll address this: if you think that the government(s) of the world have disclosed the full extent of how advanced the technology in their possession is, you’re kidding yourself. Truly.)

kylwilson.9137:

Stop comparing in-game examples to real life technology when gauging how ‘advanced’ our Engineer tech should be now. It doesn’t work. It’s just bad. You can’t compare ‘ancient and arcane magics’ in one line and then move onto referencing current day pharmaceuticals in the next.

I am not comparing in game technology to real life. I am comparing how things in combat in both the game world and ours compare, by showing how some items never go out of use with new technology, such as fire arms. It does work, because technology does not always cause fighting techniques or implements to go out of style.

kylwilson.9137:

People are arguing that in terms of lore, a precedent has been set and that the issue is that it’s not in any respect retroactive. It’s like, have we not heard of reverse-engineering before? What Scarlet has been using the entire time?

What does reverse technology have to do with anything in this situation? Just because Scarlett has mechanical or robotic minions does not mean that fire arms, grenades, or bombs are “ancient”. Like it or not, it takes more then that to push explosives into what will be considered “ancient” in game.

kylwilson.9137:

(And this is beyond the point but I’ll address this: if you think that the government(s) of the world have disclosed the full extent of how advanced the technology in their possession is, you’re kidding yourself. Truly.)

And your making my point here, thanks. I was very clear already, in pointing out, that just because in game or out, that a advanced technology exist, does not by default, make current weapons “ancient” as the OP is suggesting. Hence my comparison to the real world.

coglin.1867:

JoxerNL.3752:

coglin.1867:

As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

Way to go missing the post right above you and ignoring the fact that “pact” weaponry is far superior, but i guess there is no good retort for that one huh

Wait, what? What point did I miss? What part of my post says anything about the pact not having some advanced weaponry? I never even mentioned them.

My post simply encompasses the fact that comparatively, nothing the engineers use is particularly out dated. Especially when you figure in the fact that engineers avoid and dislike magic, and some of the assumed technology in the game is actually magi-tech. Which makes it not so technical as magical.

1. Engineers do use magic (new heal skill, clearly more asuran)
2. Just because magic is incorporated into technology does not mean it is not advanced or considered true technology. The magic appears to be primarily a power source, just like my computer runs on electricity. Just because lightning appears in nature doesn’t make electrical devices any less advanced. Technology is pretty much the understanding of nature and the use of it. Magic in Tyria is part of nature, so that means it can also be part of science.
3. Megalaser > mortar. Have fun trying to kill Teq with that tech! If there is something more efficient than current engineer tech, that makes it outdated. The only reason I can see for using the tech is the likely lower cost. Since the player character is high ranking in the Pact they should have access to more advanced technology easily, making this no problem at all.

Aguri.2896:

1. Engineers do use magic (new heal skill, clearly more asuran)

There is a difference between conjecture & assumption and fact. As Engineers “shun” magic. I call shenanigans on your statement there.

coglin.1867:

Aguri.2896:

1. Engineers do use magic (new heal skill, clearly more asuran)

There is a difference between conjecture & assumption and fact. As Engineers “shun” magic. I call shenanigans on your statement there.

I should have worded that as magi-tech.

Charr technology has in no way demonstrated that it is capable of such a device. I haven’t seen charr use energy like that to create the blue electricity effect. The closest purely charr device I can think of would be the ghostbore musket. It is most likely a mix of asura and charr technology. It also closely resembles aetherblade tech. Engineer may have started with the charr, but as other races have begun to experiment with it reasonable to think they might add their own touch. So, while I don’t have literal proof to say it’s asura tech I’ve seen holes in lore of many things before so I wouldn’t be surprised even if they did shun magic that this would happen. I tried to look for where you found that engineers shun magic but the only thing I could find about engineer lore was this:

“Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.”- taken from the GW2 wiki.

All this really says is engineers started a trend that other races took advantage of. So again, it seems reasonable these other races would add to it in their own way because it only started with the charr tech.

Could you post a link to where you found that the engineers shun magic? I always like finding out new things about GW2 lore so I am very curious about it.

Completely switching from one specialty to another that is vastly diffrtent makes no sense for an entire class. Coglin is right that engineer tech is no where near outdated. It’s new to Tyria. new and highly effective. That’s the entire reason for the engineer class. People don’t normally just quit their life work the minute something else is introduced.

Scarlets tech had just now been introduced into the world. it is comprised of the greatest technological achievements of the playable races and some of the non-playable ones. Wouldn’t it make sense that engineers would need to take the time to study that tech before they can start to utilize it? For engineers to specialize in scarletts tech, all playable races would need to be scarlett.

Dustfinger.9510:

Completely switching from one specialty to another that is vastly diffrtent makes no sense for an entire class. Coglin is right that engineer tech is no where near outdated. It’s new to Tyria. new and highly effective. That’s the entire reason for the engineer class. People don’t normally just quit their life work the minute something else is introduced.

Scarlets tech had just now been introduced into the world. it is comprised of the greatest technological achievements of the playable races and some of the non-playable ones. Wouldn’t it make sense that engineers would need to take the time to study that tech before they can start to utilize it? For engineers to specialize in scarletts tech, all playable races would need to be scarlett.

Again i’d like to point out that the “Pact” weaponry is neither Magi-tech but is vastly superior to the Engineers weaponry, furthermore your the commander there, only surpassed by Trahaerne in rank

I posted about this a while back in hobosack thread and it still really bugs me. I think there is a misunderstanding here though on whether it’s outdated. People are right in saying that the tech looks outdated compared to other tech in the game, but it is actually rather up to date, given what it does.

In terms of function, the engi’s tech should stay the same (well except turrets and mortar). But when it comes to aesthetic appeal, it really needs to be updated to match other tech in the game which includes charr tech as well. I know the engi is based off charr tech, but if you walk around Black Citadel, Iron Legion’s kitten nal, and the Plains of Ashford area where you throw mortars, you realize our tech looks nothing like their designs. Whereas they have a gothic/excessive metal use/ exposed gears theme, we have like a scrap-yard/makeshift thing going on that is cartoonish, which clashes with the whole vibe of the game and causes apparel problems that we’ve all heard about.

IMO, the designers of this profession made huge mistake trying to base it solely off charr/iron legion sentiments instead of it just being the lore for how a tech based profession came about. It would of been nice to have magi-tech instead with a unique design to it. Imagine, floating turrets with force fields so there mobile and more durable, and a laser instead of the boring/ineffective mortar. And of course all our aesthetic problems would have never been. With Scarlet Briar (a magi-tech engineer) being introduced, I really don’t see this as being far-fetched. In fact, she justifies it (just read her story).

And I agree with lakdave and JoxerNL. Our character is very special story-wise, we shouldn’t be using tech that looks like the skritt made it in there spare time while others have far superior looking stuff. How Arenanet every thought this was acceptable in a game like this is beyond me.

JoxerNL.3752:

Dustfinger.9510:

Completely switching from one specialty to another that is vastly diffrtent makes no sense for an entire class. Coglin is right that engineer tech is no where near outdated. It’s new to Tyria. new and highly effective. That’s the entire reason for the engineer class. People don’t normally just quit their life work the minute something else is introduced.

Scarlets tech had just now been introduced into the world. it is comprised of the greatest technological achievements of the playable races and some of the non-playable ones. Wouldn’t it make sense that engineers would need to take the time to study that tech before they can start to utilize it? For engineers to specialize in scarletts tech, all playable races would need to be scarlett.

Again i’d like to point out that the “Pact” weaponry is neither Magi-tech but is vastly superior to the Engineers weaponry, furthermore your the commander there, only surpassed by Trahaerne in rank

Pact tech is also an amalgamation of the brilliance of multiple races. Asura included. Not sure what the point of our rank is.

Malcolm.9671:

With Scarlet Briar (a magi-tech engineer) being introduced, I really don’t see this as being far-fetched. In fact, she justifies it (just read her story).

We’re special, but we didn’t go to every asuran college, or surpass out charr teachers, or gain the knowledge of the hyleck. As I said, in order for scarletts tech to be the norm for the engi, each member of the playable races would need to be on par with Scarlett. because the professions are equal opportunity.

Though, I do agree that the current models could get better charr designs.

Dustfinger.9510:

Malcolm.9671:

With Scarlet Briar (a magi-tech engineer) being introduced, I really don’t see this as being far-fetched. In fact, she justifies it (just read her story).

We’re special, but we didn’t go to every asuran college, or surpass out charr teachers, or gain the knowledge of the hyleck. As I said, in order for scarletts tech to be the norm for the engi, each member of the playable races would need to be on par with Scarlett. because the professions are equal opportunity.

I never stated we have to be on par with scarlett intectually. I brought her up to show that an engineer doesn’t have to be based on charr sentiments and can use magi-tech without it destroying the lore. Plus they don’t need to do everything scarlett did to simply be magi-tech users. And if your referring to profession equality in opportunity lore-wise, isn’t there already a requirement to be naturally leaning towards the profession’s magic to become it? I remember this being discussed in another thread. I mean I really don’t see how just anyone can become an engineer (lore-wise), given the functions of the tech they make, there already must be a high intellect requirement.

Inventing something on your own does not require the same knowledge and intelligence as just reverse-engineer, disect and get to know the workings of an already built device. Thats exactly what science is best at. Examine something that already works in nature, find out why it works, and utilize it in similar or entirely different scenarios.

After Scarlet is dealt with, you can bet your legendary that the pact will not just discard everything she built. They will use it. Maybe they wont build poorly balanced metal marionette giants, but you can be sure that the flying thing it descends from will find a use. Her receiverless portal technology will prove invaluable. Her holographic army concept will save lives by the hundreds in the battle against the dragons.

So why would engineers, specialized in combat-engineering sit on their laurels with their bulky turrets, their scrap-heap mortar design, their hilarious battering ram that should break their pelvis every time they use it, their giant hobo-sacks… when they should be on the forefront of advancement?

Heck, make it a thing for all professions. Skill effect customization. Magic is getting stronger, technology is advancing. Have it in Gem Store for all i care! I would pay for it sooner than another back-piece item i never see. Or another fancy armor i cant match my hobo-sacks with.

EDIT: To clarify, im talking about design customization, not gameplay mechanic changes. Balance is a factor that should not have lore-backing.

Malcolm.9671:

I never stated we have to be on par with scarlett intectually. I brought her up to show that an engineer doesn’t have to be based on charr sentiments and can use magi-tech without it destroying the lore. Plus they don’t need to do everything scarlett did to simply be magi-tech users. And if your referring to profession equality in opportunity lore-wise, isn’t there already a requirement to be naturally leaning towards the profession’s magic to become it? I remember this being discussed in another thread. I mean I really don’t see how just anyone can become an engineer (lore-wise), given the functions of the tech they make, there already must be a high intellect requirement.

We already know that engineers have access to racial abilities. So there is already a creeping in of other technology. but that is a far cry from replacing the base technology with tech that nobody knows anything about because it’s so new and built by someone that needed to do those things in order to have it.

The equal opportunity comes from not needing to be on scarletts level in order to be the class. which is implied by the idea that scarlett sets the precidence.

edit: realized what you meant. Lorewise, the engineer class is going to need to remain rooted in charr tech. Otherwise, every asura already is an engineer because they are all inventors. So the charr needs to remain a defining characteristic of the class. We may get more magitech or plant tech (Inquest already does it with magitech turrets). But the the charr tech will always be a major base. Atleast for the playable class. I suspect the reason behind the charr tech base involves the effort involved with customizing each ability effect (which is what kit skins would be doing)

lakdav.3694:

Inventing something on your own does not require the same knowledge and intelligence as just reverse-engineer, disect and get to know the workings of an already built device. Thats exactly what science is best at. Examine something that already works in nature, find out why it works, and utilize it in similar or entirely different scenarios.

After Scarlet is dealt with, you can bet your legendary that the pact will not just discard everything she built. They will use it. Maybe they wont build poorly balanced metal marionette giants, but you can be sure that the flying thing it descends from will find a use. Her receiverless portal technology will prove invaluable. Her holographic army concept will save lives by the hundreds in the battle against the dragons.

So why would engineers, specialized in combat-engineering sit on their laurels with their bulky turrets, their scrap-heap mortar design, their hilarious battering ram that should break their pelvis every time they use it, their giant hobo-sacks… when they should be on the forefront of advancement?

Heck, make it a thing for all professions. Skill effect customization. Magic is getting stronger, technology is advancing. Have it in Gem Store for all i care! I would pay for it sooner than another back-piece item i never see. Or another fancy armor i cant match my hobo-sacks with.

EDIT: To clarify, im talking about design customization, not gameplay mechanic changes. Balance is a factor that should not have lore-backing.

It is already happening at what seems to me to be a reasonable rate. As I said, scarletts tech is brand spankin new. The knowledge behind her tech is going to have to become common place enough for each engineer of every plable race to have access to it in general usage.

(keep in mind that Im speaking to the origioanl post here. Which is calling for her tech over the “outdated” charr tech wich isn’t outdated at all.)

Dustfinger.9510:

Again i’d like to point out that the “Pact” weaponry is neither Magi-tech but is vastly superior to the Engineers weaponry, furthermore your the commander there, only surpassed by Trahaerne in rank

Pact tech is also an amalgamation of the brilliance of multiple races. Asura included. Not sure what the point of our rank is.

[/quote]

The commander of the pact, an organization that is currently equipped with the bets of the best each of the races together could have created, in certain missions (personal storyline) you go out and troops have far superior weaponry within their hands, led by us, the commander, who claims to be an Engineer, using vastly inferior technology.

Dustfinger.9510:

Pact tech is also an amalgamation of the brilliance of multiple races. Asura included. Not sure what the point of our rank is.

The commander of the pact, an organization that is currently equipped with the bets of the best each of the races together could have created, in certain missions (personal storyline) you go out and troops have far superior weaponry within their hands, led by us, the commander, who claims to be an Engineer, using vastly inferior technology.[/quote]

I don’t understand this idea that Scarlet’s technology is some kind of miracle/so advanced. All you have to do is walk around Rata Sum to see dozens of examples of technology more advanced than hers by an order of magnitude.

So, to date, she’s built the shanty town equivalent of a tower, some clockwork monstrousities, and a giant laser canon. Yay.

Asura have super computers attached to holographic displays AND holographic input terminals, fully functional robotic assistants with advanced AI, their entire CITY is held in place by an advanced anti-gravity anchor, and when Scarlet sabotaged one of the asuran reactors the fallout left an entire region that screws with the very fabric of reality.

Why again are we supposed to be impressed by her?

coglin.1867:

…
As far as Scarlet goes, just because one evil genius has invented or created something advanced, doesn’t by default make every thing else in the world out dated.

Actually, this is specifically what determines when a weapon is made obsolete.

Sticks and stones became outdated when the bow and arrow arrived. Sure, they have their place, but the bow and arrow introduced ranged combat, effectively changing the face of war.
The first gunpowder cannon made traditional armor outdated and ineffective. Cultures and armies were forced to adapt or die.
The A-bomb changed the notion of war and diplomacy. The Cold War existed because of what happened in 1945.

Drastically advancing military technology makes old weapons outdated very fast…as fast as your armies die. And I’d say a 200 foot tall metal marionette than charges a floating laser that can instantly kill everyone in an entire zone makes kitten near every one of an engineer’s weapon outdated.

Maybe if the class was called “Scavenger” we wouldn’t have this stigma
Would fit our current tech nicely

Seras.5702:

Actually, this is specifically what determines when a weapon is made obsolete.

Sticks and stones became outdated when the bow and arrow arrived. Sure, they have their place, but the bow and arrow introduced ranged combat, effectively changing the face of war.

LMAO, You my friend have an odd concept of out dated. As well, you do not know jack squat about war or combat. In the very early 90s I was deployed to the gulf. Do you think no one used a knife there, just because guns exist? Just because a more advanced technology exist does not make everything else obsolete. How long has laser technology existed? Do you know why everyone doesn’t carry a Mega laser in combat in Tyria?

Seras.5702:

The first gunpowder cannon made traditional armor outdated and ineffective. Cultures and armies were forced to adapt or die.

That’s nice, but what does this have to do with anything? You sure have a loose definition of out dated. It doesn’t mean “Ancient”, it doesn’t mean useless.

Seras.5702:

The A-bomb changed the notion of war and diplomacy. The Cold War existed because of what happened in 1945.

Feel free to get back on topic at any time. Although the atomic bomb is completely irrelevant, It has been around how long? Yet every military in the world is still chalk full of combat engineer, rifles, pistols, grenades, bombs, and mines. I have even served along side some foreign military engineers that are still called “sappers”. Care to tel them they are out dated? No, because you do not even know what it means in the case of battle as it seems.

Seras.5702:

Drastically advancing military technology makes old weapons outdated very fast…as fast as your armies die. And I’d say a 200 foot tall metal marionette than charges a floating laser that can instantly kill everyone in an entire zone makes kitten near every one of an engineer’s weapon outdated.

That doesn’t make sense, You appear to be confused as to what out dated actually means. It does not mean obsolete. And if you would actually read the title of this thread, you might even realize we are talking about “ancient” not out dated.

So she created a second rate marionette, that me and several of my friends with bow & arrows, hammers, swords, shields, maces, axes, and torches, walked into and destroyed. Clearly it was so highly advanced……….If engineer equipment is so “ancient”, why does every other profession we fight against use significantly lesser technology then us?

I would like them to make unique turrets for each race (Similar to WoW Shaman totems) That would b awesome

JoxerNL.3752:

Dustfinger.9510:

Pact tech is also an amalgamation of the brilliance of multiple races. Asura included. Not sure what the point of our rank is.

The commander of the pact, an organization that is currently equipped with the bets of the best each of the races together could have created, in certain missions (personal storyline) you go out and troops have far superior weaponry within their hands, led by us, the commander, who claims to be an Engineer, using vastly inferior technology.

[/quote]

So the best of the best of each race have come together to create the best weaponry. How does that translate into one character being intellectually on par with the best of the best of each race?

Using your logic, a person playing a warrior would need to be turned into an engineer simply because a gun is better technology than a sword. But in Tyria, swords are still effective. Just as steam and clockwork tech is.

being an engineer does not automatically make us master of all technology. It makes us profiscient with charr technology. Hybridizing aether tech/magitech/steam tech/clockwork tech/and hyleck potions is what scarlett as done. because she is a mad genius that has studied under and surpassed the masters of all those races during a series of unlikely events that allowed her to do so. We as characters have chosen to utilize a study of technology that has recently become widely available to all races. Charr tech.

i.e.: charr have basic mechanics on hand. Asura use magic and mechanics. But a charr would need to study before he could master magitech because adding a whole new element to his area of knowledge takes time. Scarletts tech utilizes many new technologies from many races.

edit: To add to what Coglin is saying, gunpowder has been around for 10-12 hundred years. We still use it today. Even though we have the ability to split atoms. The evolution of technology isn’t what some seem to think here. Technology doesn’t get outdated until there’s someone who can’t think of a way to make use of it in current circumstances. Hence knives, gun powder, billy clubs, pepper spray, etc.

Dustfinger.9510:

The commander of the pact, an organization that is currently equipped with the bets of the best each of the races together could have created, in certain missions (personal storyline) you go out and troops have far superior weaponry within their hands, led by us, the commander, who claims to be an Engineer, using vastly inferior technology.

So the best of the best of each race have come together to create the best weaponry. How does that translate into one character being intellectually on par with the best of the best of each race?

Using your logic, a person playing a warrior would need to be turned into an engineer simply because a gun is better technology than a sword. But in Tyria, swords are still effective. Just as steam and clockwork tech is.

being an engineer does not automatically make us master of all technology. It makes us profiscient with charr technology. Hybridizing aether tech/magitech/steam tech/clockwork tech/and hyleck potions is what scarlett as done. because she is a mad genius that has studied under and surpassed the masters of all those races during a series of unlikely events that allowed her to do so. We as characters have chosen to utilize a study of technology that has recently become widely available to all races. Charr tech.

i.e.: charr have basic mechanics on hand. Asura use magic and mechanics. But a charr would need to study before he could master magitech because adding a whole new element to his area of knowledge takes time. Scarletts tech utilizes many new technologies from many races.

edit: To add to what Coglin is saying, gunpowder has been around for 10-12 hundred years. We still use it today. Even though we have the ability to split atoms. The evolution of technology isn’t what some seem to think here. Technology doesn’t get outdated until there’s someone who can’t think of a way to make use of it in current circumstances. Hence knives, gun powder, billy clubs, pepper spray, etc.

I had expected to see someone try to nitpick what I said, but it seems you completely missed the part where I said the troops you lead at certain points have better weaponry, or are you going to tell me the pact “grunts” have had better training specially made for their weaponry, considering the pact was just created
Nice try though.

JoxerNL.3752:

I had expected to see someone try to nitpick what I said, but it seems you completely missed the part where I said the troops you lead at certain points have better weaponry, or are you going to tell me the pact “grunts” have had better training specially made for their weaponry, considering the pact was just created
Nice try though.

Im saying this entire line of reasoning is flawed. I’ve described how and you’ve either failed to defend the details or you’ve tried to do it with false information. What specific class weapons do the grunts have that are better?

edit: and please don’t try to infer that Im picking you at random in order to nitpick your post. You specifically responded to one of my posts. Im responding to your response. This is how conversations work.

JoxerNL.3752:

I had expected to see someone try to nitpick what I said, but it seems you completely missed the part where I said the troops you lead at certain points have better weaponry, or are you going to tell me the pact “grunts” have had better training specially made for their weaponry, considering the pact was just created
Nice try though.

What is there to nitpick, when the basic premise of your point doesn’t really even make sense? So to try to bring logic to your illogical question, what weapons should the engineer be using in your opinion? Clearly we are going to have to take a different route to the path of understanding here. Because I am not seeing any actual comments from you that support a logic that our weapons are archaically, as you keep claiming, that they need to be cast aside for some more futuristic technology.

engi tech isnt outdated.. it just looks like kitten thats the issue XD

Dustfinger.9510:

edit: realized what you meant. Lorewise, the engineer class is going to need to remain rooted in charr tech. Otherwise, every asura already is an engineer because they are all inventors. So the charr needs to remain a defining characteristic of the class. We may get more magitech or plant tech (Inquest already does it with magitech turrets). But the the charr tech will always be a major base. Atleast for the playable class. I suspect the reason behind the charr tech base involves the effort involved with customizing each ability effect (which is what kit skins would be doing)

The profession engineer refers to a combat-engineer as stated by Eric Flannum (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Engineer#Background) which means anyone who is an inventor isn’t an engineer, they have to use their tech in combat as well. What tech we use doesn’t define the profession, it’s the way we use it. Char tech having to be the defining point of the class is dubious at best since it doesn’t matter what tech we use, and its doesn’t make sense to have one race’s tech to be the only option of a multi-racial class. This was the point I was trying to make. I understand the charr tech being the origin of the class and being a base in that way, but limiting the class to only that is just wrong (especially when it causes issues in-game).

Malcolm.9671:

The profession engineer refers to a combat-engineer as stated by Eric Flannum (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Engineer#Background) which means anyone who is an inventor isn’t an engineer, they have to use their tech in combat as well. What tech we use doesn’t define the profession, it’s the way we use it. Char tech having to be the defining point of the class is dubious at best since it doesn’t matter what tech we use, and its doesn’t make sense to have one race’s tech to be the only option of a multi-racial class. This was the point I was trying to make. I understand the charr tech being the origin of the class and being a base in that way, but limiting the class to only that is just wrong (especially when it causes issues in-game).

All asura can utilize their tech in combat in the form of golems. The sylvari can do it in the form of plant turrets. so your way would make all asura and sylvari engineers. Im not advocating limiting it to only charr tech. What Im advocating is keeping the base in charr tech as we expand on the tech. The same way the class already does with racials and the new heal. This seems to be the plan anyways. And it prevents the line between races and the engineer class unperforated.

As the poster a few posts above this one said, ArenaNet could give the turrets and kits different looks based on race. Kinda what they did with totems in WoW.

Without getting into (or too far into) the current/outdated debate, non-charr engineers definitely deserve some love. Asura really ought to get turrets and other gadgets that are based on Asura designs, not charr. And Sylvari? Why can’t they be bio-engineers, whose ideas are taken from growing and manipulating plant matter (like seed turrets, for example!). Humans, too, are a race in dire need of a technology change for their engineers. Who made the original watchwork guardians? Not Scarlet – she stole them from the humans. And certainly not Queen Jennah – she’s a Mesmer, not an engineer.

The common human made those things. So why is it that an engineer can’t have some kind of funky watchwork turret?

Admittedly, I can’t think of anything for the Norn or the Charr, but it’s my personal opinion that for the charr, the current turrets are good enough.

Except they don’t look like charrzookas. <—— Make it happen, Anet!

And do something along these lines about kit backpacks too. Or make them go away.

What I think would be awesome would be racial engineer tech.

That is to say, just the graphics part. Especially the kits. The current ones would fit Charr well I suppose, especially with just using a giant keg of powder for BOB.