Guild Wars 2

I’m having a hard time liking my engineer. I really want to use the grenade kit because it’s awesome and traits fit it well…also got a little bored of the flamethrower. But I seem to not like it much because they’re all ground targeting skills unless you’re underwater. This is really annoying because I have to constantly hit 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-5-1-1-2-4-1-1-1-1 over and over. Please at least make the first skill auto-attacking and target locking. If I have to occasionally hit 2, 3, 4, and 5 to ground target, that’s totally fine. It’s just really annoying to have to ground target every single time with my auto-attack. Please change this.

I’d rather the rename it “rocket kit” and have faster flight times, THEN make 1 into a targeted aoe projectile so you can auto attack with it.

it no longer has enough damage to justify the ground-target requirements or ludicrous flight times.

The tool belt skill can renamed “lob warheads” and retain its mechanics, because it still does reasonable damage.

I want it to remain a grenade kit, I like the grenade idea: I liked it since they announced the engineer before release…but it’s just not fun when I have to just keep pushing 1 over and over just to attack.

I’d prefer it as it is. If people don’t wanna play a class with such a high skill ceiling, they shouldn’t be engineers. Starting to get a little sick of the most rewarding kit (in terms of ranged damage output to the aiming required) being ‘too hard to use’ for players supposedly, when I’ve been using it nonstop since I hit level 60 within a few days of launch. Grenades are the only weapon with a skillshot auto attack in the game, and I’d like to keep at least one option present with such a method.

If you don’t like pushing the same button over and over, I’d hate to see you play an FPS.

I actually play a lot of FPS…but that’s besides the point because it’s a whole different game. I don’t sit in a corner tapping the same button like I do with the grenade kit. I like 2-5 being ground target, but spamming 1 over and over is very annoying. The first skill should be an auto-attack (which it isn’t since I have to manually hit it every second). It would be much more fun to play this way, like it is underwater.

Kamahl.3621:

I’d prefer it as it is. If people don’t wanna play a class with such a high skill ceiling, they shouldn’t be engineers. Starting to get a little sick of the most rewarding kit (in terms of ranged damage output to the aiming required) being ‘too hard to use’ for players supposedly, when I’ve been using it nonstop since I hit level 60 within a few days of launch. Grenades are the only weapon with a skillshot auto attack in the game, and I’d like to keep at least one option present with such a method.

If you don’t like pushing the same button over and over, I’d hate to see you play an FPS.

The grenade kit has good damage to effort return?

Maybe 5 months ago, not now.

If they want to return the damage to what it was, sure, but they’re not.

Anything that does not apply a cripple or chill should be target-based at this point.

plasmacutter.2709:

The grenade kit has good damage to effort return?

Maybe 5 months ago, not now.

If they want to return the damage to what it was, sure, but they’re not.

Anything that does not apply a cripple or chill should be target-based at this point.

Try any other class’ ranged options. Nothing even compares to Grenade Kit at range. It really did need a nerf, although the travel time somewhat irks me with PvP purposes at such large distances. If you want to go into melee, you can make the difference between yourself and a warrior quite hastily with point blank grenade barrages, prybar, blunderbuss, both portions of jump shot, throw wrench, elixir F, and acid bomb. The difference in ranged damage is blatantly clear in the Jade Maw fight, when one grenade engineer will take down a tentacle while a ranger, guardian, and warrior pewpew down another – and the engineer finishes first.

I understand having the area attacks for skills 2-5, don’t get me wrong, even the tool belt skill. That’s fine, and I think with their damage/area they should be area. But the auto-attack is too annoying to keep spamming 1. Imagine playing a warrior with a greatsword and having to hit 1 every time you want to use your auto-attack. Or a ranger hitting 1 every time with the shortbow. It’s just boring and unnecessary.

Kamahl.3621:

plasmacutter.2709:

The grenade kit has good damage to effort return?

Maybe 5 months ago, not now.

If they want to return the damage to what it was, sure, but they’re not.

Anything that does not apply a cripple or chill should be target-based at this point.

Try any other class’ ranged options. Nothing even compares to Grenade Kit at range. It really did need a nerf, although the travel time somewhat irks me with PvP purposes at such large distances. If you want to go into melee, you can make the difference between yourself and a warrior quite hastily with point blank grenade barrages, prybar, blunderbuss, both portions of jump shot, throw wrench, elixir F, and acid bomb. The difference in ranged damage is blatantly clear in the Jade Maw fight, when one grenade engineer will take down a tentacle while a ranger, guardian, and warrior pewpew down another – and the engineer finishes first.

Try tossing grenades at “range” in wvw or spvp — see how well that works against anyone who is not AFK.

LOL @ comparing nade damage to kill shot.

Btw, please meet thief cluster bombs.

Grenade kit needs twice as fast flight speed.

If it was twice as fast flight speed it might become a little OP. The first skill just really needs to be auto-attack.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

It’s just boring and unnecessary.

This.

I’d like to use a Grenade build, but it’s just not worth the carpal tunnel.

Though an autoattack would certainly make it easier, I think its implementation would bring with it another damage reduction. As it stands, we’re probably the most effective long-term sniping class in the game. (Warrior has its burst, but has to charge it up first.)

I definitely understand the complaint when it comes to just being plain ol’ painful for the player, though. Far too much repetitive motion. Here’s my suggestion, which I’m sure has been stated numerous times before by others: Make it so you can hold down the button to throw it repeatedly. I know that the 1 key is difficult to hold down while moving, of course, but you’re able to bind your #1 attack to two keys at once. Something like Shift, Control, or a spare mouse button would work fine for that. Alternatively, it could be made to throw repeatedly if you have autoattack set for it, just hurling the grenades at the mouse cursor as targeting would normally function. Such an approach would take the stress off of your hand (and keyboard), while retaining the skill/prediction factor.

Toolbox.9375:

Though an autoattack would certainly make it easier, I think its implementation would bring with it another damage reduction.

They probably would add a 5-10% damage nerf, but honestly I’m so sick of spamming my keyboards 1 button, I think it would be worth it. I’m probably just slowly breaking my keyboard by hitting it so many times.

Toolbox.9375:

Though an autoattack would certainly make it easier, I think its implementation would bring with it another damage reduction. As it stands, we’re probably the most effective long-term sniping class in the game. (Warrior has its burst, but has to charge it up first.)
.

Reduce the auto-attack 10%, increase 2-5 by 5%.(example)

You’d still need good targeting skills to maximize damage/effect but the repetitive motion problems would be cut way down.

plasmacutter.2709:

Try tossing grenades at “range” in wvw or spvp — see how well that works against anyone who is not AFK.

LOL @ comparing nade damage to kill shot.

Btw, please meet thief cluster bombs.

You mean one of the slowest traveling damage methods in the game? That bugs your attack while waiting for it to land? And using it in melee is pointless because you’re a thief and at that point should swap to your S/x set? The only good thing about cluster bomb is the no-cooldown blast finisher that you’ll crank off every time you see a fire field. Kill Shot is a 3.5 second channel, you want to call that good DPS? Used for sniping in WvW and a 1500 range pull in PvE. Assuming someone doesn’t see the super tell of a warrior getting down on one knee and channeling for 3 and a half whole seconds.

And grenades are perfectly fine given their high damage in sPvP / WvW formats – if you want to make it land, learn to use a rifle. This isn’t Starcraft or Dwarf Fortress, it’s not hard to figure out, but given how many threads I see pop up about engineer and how to use them, it seems that maybe I’m wrong in that regard.

the 1 spam is the singular reason I don’t use that kit out of water.

It isn’t “skill”, it’s annoying.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

If it was twice as fast flight speed it might become a little OP. The first skill just really needs to be auto-attack.

From all OP classes i dont believe that change would make engeneeir OP,even if flight was faster your oponent can still evade them by simply keep moving.

Damage for the kit may be good. Unfortunately the travel time for the damage is absurd. Combining this with having to repeatedly spam #1 just to get all this “amazing ranged damage” makes the kit boring, annoying and downright silly.

AryasRevenge.3175:

From all OP classes i dont believe that change would make engeneeir OP,even if flight was faster your oponent can still evade them by simply keep moving.

True, as long as they didn’t decrease the interval that you could throw them at. I guess that’s more what I was thinking vs. travel time for the damage.

Imperatora.7654:

the 1 spam is the singular reason I don’t use that kit out of water.

It isn’t “skill”, it’s annoying.

My thoughts exactly. It’s so much more fun underwater because you don’t have to push the “1” key to death.

This is why I like fighting at Green Keep in EB. You can go underwater near the gate and then you get the autoattack grenades that you can hit people on the wall with.
Also really good at assassinating the cannons.

Since its working underwater why isn’t it working on land?

btw i agree. all other weapons have the ability to auto-attack so the grenade kit should be as well.

Does anyone know what that symbol around skill 1 grenade kits it? It looks like the skill is an auto-attack skill but at the top is a little lock?

If you want reduced flight time use elixir U. Other than that it is pathetic QQ thread.

I hope grenade kit #1 won’t become auto attack above ground, because it would remove so many tactics. Now you can run into any direction and spam #1 at other direction freely (yes, it requires skill). Auto targeting is fine underwater. The grenade #1 attack should do a bit more damage and grenades should fly a tiny bit faster. That’s it.

if you’ve selected a target it should be attacked automatically. if not you have to do manually. just like everywhere in that kitten game

No need to nerf the kit, gives us the option to have either ground targeting or auto attack. Auto-attack would be only efficient for stationary targets , supposing that it lands on the last recorded position(Like ground targeting automatically a target?) and it would save us from carpal tunnel. Ground targeting will be for more advanced tactics, like if you want to predict where your target gonna move and throw grenades ahead. We keep grenade dmg,speed and parabolic trajectory like normal. That’s what I think.

Deniara Devious.3948:

it would remove so many tactics.

I disagree. It isn’t worth straining my wrist/hand by constantly hitting 1. That just isn’t fun to me. The other grenades are fine, but there needs to be an auto-attack if there isn’t a recharge on the skill. Very annoying (especially when using Elixir U).

Grenade kit is a part of almost every functional build we have. I don’t think we should ask to change it, especially since we have so many other things that need so much more work.

I’m not saying grenades are great or that they’re well-designed, just I’d rather see a fix to something that currently isn’t viable than a change to our viable (but uninspired) build.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Grenade kit is a part of almost every functional build we have.

Is this coming from a PvE or PvP perspective? Because I play mainly PvE, and during those long boss fights or mobs of enemies, I hate spamming my 1 key to death. I don’t think it’s fair at all to say that grenade kit is part of almost every functional build, because it definitely isn’t. Flamethrowers also have nice builds, I developed a fun and good bomb kit build, and even more. Grenade kit has so much more potential but it’s boring, annoying, and unnecessary to keep hitting the same button over and over. Arenanet even said when they announced this game that they didn’t want a game where players hit one button over and over. I feel like this is what I’m doing when I use the grenade kit.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Arenanet even said when they announced this game that they didn’t want a game where players hit one button over and over. I feel like this is what I’m doing when I use the grenade kit.

Perhaps you should try swapping kits around then. I won’t advocate using the flamethrower in PvE – that’s monkey business unless you’re farming in Orr. I will say though, that juggling between rifle, elixir gun, tool kit, and grenade kit is not only a very fun method of playing, but it definitely drops the hammer down. If you’re attacking at long range, consider swapping to rifle for net shot every now and then – taking Sitting Duck would complement this nicely (I prefer 20% CDR myself) between grenade presses. When I play Engineer, it’s like I’m ringing off Beethoven’s Symphony with how quickly I juggle between kits and rifle, cracking off various skills, and auto’ing with grenade kit as a brief respite for ~5 seconds, before using shrapnel grenade, going back to another blunderbuss, and then.. well, I’m sure you get it.

Kamahl.3621:

Perhaps you should try swapping kits around then. I won’t advocate using the flamethrower in PvE – that’s monkey business unless you’re farming in Orr.

I have my engineer to 80. It’s not that I haven’t tried other kits, it’s just that it really bothers me that a kit with so much potential (both for fun and for relevance) is so annoying to use.

As far as using multiple kits in the same build, I don’t like doing this for a couple reasons:
-1: Seems a little unnecessary since I can only use one at a time, plus I have my main weapons if needed
-2: Other utilities are nice, such as the elixirs for buffs or gadgets for utility.
-3: Traits become a jumbled mess. When I design a build, I like to give it it’s highest potential…using multiple kits really spreads out the effectiveness of each kit anyway.

As far as the flamethrower, I used it from probably level 20 to about 75 and I got really sick of it, but it worked well. I just don’t understand why every other “weapon 1” option has the ability to auto-attack but the grenade kit does not. It becomes very redundant gameplay. I want diversity, but effectiveness.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Grenade kit is a part of almost every functional build we have.

Is this coming from a PvE or PvP perspective? Because I play mainly PvE, and during those long boss fights or mobs of enemies, I hate spamming my 1 key to death. I don’t think it’s fair at all to say that grenade kit is part of almost every functional build, because it definitely isn’t. Flamethrowers also have nice builds, I developed a fun and good bomb kit build, and even more. Grenade kit has so much more potential but it’s boring, annoying, and unnecessary to keep hitting the same button over and over. Arenanet even said when they announced this game that they didn’t want a game where players hit one button over and over. I feel like this is what I’m doing when I use the grenade kit.

Definitely, that’s why I also don’t use grenade kit. That’s also why I said ALMOST every functional build uses grenades.

There’s no reason to make yourself use a kit you don’t like, especially if you’re doing PvE. “Functional” was a poor choice of words on my part. The point was that grenade kit already does its job—damage—while many of our other options are bugged or ineffective.

because most kits have traits that make them mutually exclusive. Bomb needs deep Explosives and Inventions, Elixir gun/flamethrower needs deep firearms and alchemy, Toolkit is burred in tools.

Grenade kit is one of the few that can be effectively paired with another kit since all it needs is deep explosives (thus only pairable with bomb)

While I believe the intention was to have us swap between two or more kits in a build, the trait lines make this impractical (along with the lack of stun break).

NevirSayDie.6235:

The Eternal Grace.3157:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Grenade kit is a part of almost every functional build we have.

Is this coming from a PvE or PvP perspective? Because I play mainly PvE, and during those long boss fights or mobs of enemies, I hate spamming my 1 key to death. I don’t think it’s fair at all to say that grenade kit is part of almost every functional build, because it definitely isn’t. Flamethrowers also have nice builds, I developed a fun and good bomb kit build, and even more. Grenade kit has so much more potential but it’s boring, annoying, and unnecessary to keep hitting the same button over and over. Arenanet even said when they announced this game that they didn’t want a game where players hit one button over and over. I feel like this is what I’m doing when I use the grenade kit.

Definitely, that’s why I also don’t use grenade kit. That’s also why I said ALMOST every functional build uses grenades.

There’s no reason to make yourself use a kit you don’t like, especially if you’re doing PvE. “Functional” was a poor choice of words on my part. The point was that grenade kit already does its job—damage—while many of our other options are bugged or ineffective.

Don’t get me wrong, I like it. It’s just annoying and a lot less fun to play when I have to spam 1 key over and over. I think this would be an easy fix by ArenaNet, and as I said earlier, I hate to see a kit this unique and with this much potential for fun and effectiveness be unused because of the high risk of carpel tunnel.

if they made grenade kit on land work the same as it did underwater I would have to seriously think about changing pve mains.

Imperatora.7654:

if they made grenade kit on land work the same as it did underwater I would have to seriously think about changing pve mains.

I agree. Grenade kit is so much fun underwater. I still believe 2-5 should be ground targeting, but please save me from the carpel tunnel and boredom invested in spamming “1” on land.

I’m just going to leave it on this note – we have 1 second swaps on our kits for a reason. If you’re not comfortable juggling kits, then you should settle for not using the class to its full potential. You don’t have to dip 20 points into alchemy just to use acid bomb, it still hits like a truck late for the depot just fine. Traiting Tool Kit will only reduce it’s cooldown – and I do it anyway because there’s no better working trait (this is true until they make Scope work).

And no, other utilities are not just as nice. The only time I’d say otherwise is in certain builds, like static discharge, or… well, I’m talking about PvE, so I won’t bring up any HGH build. There isn’t a single non-kit utility I’d rather have in any PvE situation, except 2: Graveling Scavengers (Elixir S), and Jade Maw (Elixir R). Those two should be obvious as to why.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Imperatora.7654:

if they made grenade kit on land work the same as it did underwater I would have to seriously think about changing pve mains.

I agree. Grenade kit is so much fun underwater. I still believe 2-5 should be ground targeting, but please save me from the carpel tunnel and boredom invested in spamming “1” on land.

I don’t even use an explosive trait build, and I use grenades underwater because they are so much fun.

Kamahl.3621:

I’m just going to leave it on this note – we have 1 second swaps on our kits for a reason. If you’re not comfortable juggling kits, then you should settle for not using the class to its full potential. You don’t have to dip 20 points into alchemy just to use acid bomb, it still hits like a truck late for the depot just fine.

I don’t agree with this at all. The class isn’t completely built over kits. Yeah, they’re awesome and used in many many builds, but that doesn’t mean you have to. Using a class to it’s “full potential” shouldn’t have to, and doesn’t rely on having to use certain utility skills or multiple kits. I think this can be said for any class.

Besides, I don’t believe using a class to it’s, again, “full potential” involves spreading out traits to make them all semi-useful. I don’t think ArenaNet would say “Yes, we designed the 1-second recharge solely on the reason to switch between multiple kits.”

The Eternal Grace.3157:

I don’t agree with this at all. The class isn’t completely built over kits. Yeah, they’re awesome and used in many many builds, but that doesn’t mean you have to. Using a class to it’s “full potential” shouldn’t have to, and doesn’t rely on having to use certain utility skills or multiple kits. I think this can be said for any class.

You may not agree with it, but I’m gonna quote a dev post. Basically, you can choose not to use kits, and in turn lower the complexity limit – it’s only fitting that the damage should lower, as a result, within that given class. Why should something more braindead (within the same class) do more damage? And, yes, yes using kits is required if you want to have a good PvE build. I’d say the lazy static discharge PvE rifle build isn’t so bad, but it actually uses tool kit and med kit. As long as you’re using at least 3+ skills out of your kit, as opposed to the 1/2 that a regular utility skill would provide, I honestly can’t see the logic in not using them. Elixir gun – super elixir, acid bomb, vent healing mist. Tool kit – prybar, throw wrench, gear shield. Grenade kit – Everything that isn’t the 3 and 5 at all times, 3 when appropriate, 5 if you can land a shot that results in a 60 second poison on the mob. Taking things like Elixir B is just selfish, especially when looking at Elixir gun – double super elixir fields, heavy damage output on a 15 second cooldown, and AoE regen? Hnnngh. Grenade kit & elixir gun are a staple on any self-respecting PvE engineer’s bar. That last skill is up for debate, but it’s hard to go wrong with a 3 second block, a hard hitting prybar, and a throw wrench! Oh, right, and as a general fact of life it seems, all non-kit toolbelt skills are awful. Some exceptions exist, like Toss Elixir R and rocket kick, but.. well let’s be blunt, with those you’re taking them for the toolbelt rather than the utility slot.

We said the engineer is very complex because his complexity limit is very high, but you could run an engineer with simpler utility skills and fewer kits which would make it a relatively straightforward class. There would still be a lot of decision making, but it is true that some classes are intended to be a little more straightforward.

That’s true that they help and are good in many situations, I’m not arguing that. I’m just saying I don’t have to run a build with multiple kits to be effective. Anyway, this post is about spamming 1 on grenade kit, not the relevance of using multiple kits. Whether I use other kits along with the grenade kit or not, I don’t want to have to constantly hit 1-1-1-1 to use a basic AoE attack with the grenade kit.

I too would very much like Grenade #1 to be made into an auto-target, auto-firing attack. It’s not a balance issue, it’s a convenience and quality of life issue.

I totally agree with the OP. If skill 1 was target lock based (still with AoE) instead of ground targeted, it would be a lot better. Underwater the kit is absolutely fine, and if anything I use it over the harpoon gun, but on land it can be a real pain having to target the first skill every second.

I’ll guess they didn’t put it in because a moving target won’t be hit and based on that people would start complaining on the grenade speed

Solution: auto-attack + faster speed + less damage if its to op

so because my post is definetly already too far away from the beginning of the thread, but i think i have to mention a point that has not been mentioned before, i’ll use the list function. cause lists are read more often :P

• I have had the same opinion as almost everybody here for a long while. but one day…
• I realized it would be a big nerf to make granades autotarget the enemy, at least if its a moving enemy.
• granades would simply miss, because they have a long travel time and their range.

still, i think something needs to be done. and i say: cut down the range by half, reduce number of granades, but tripple the damage of each granade. then you can make it auto targeting, and at the same time put some SENSE to this.

pza.8024:

so because my post is definetly already too far away from the beginning of the thread, but i think i have to mention a point that has not been mentioned before, i’ll use the list function. cause lists are read more often :P

• I have had the same opinion as almost everybody here for a long while. but one day…
• I realized it would be a big nerf to make granades autotarget the enemy, at least if its a moving enemy.
• granades would simply miss, because they have a long travel time and their range.

still, i think something needs to be done. and i say: cut down the range by half, reduce number of granades, but tripple the damage of each granade. then you can make it auto targeting, and at the same time put some SENSE to this.

you clearly mistook grenades for Bomb kit .

Rezzet.3614:

pza.8024:

so because my post is definetly already too far away from the beginning of the thread, but i think i have to mention a point that has not been mentioned before, i’ll use the list function. cause lists are read more often :P

• I have had the same opinion as almost everybody here for a long while. but one day…
• I realized it would be a big nerf to make granades autotarget the enemy, at least if its a moving enemy.
• granades would simply miss, because they have a long travel time and their range.

still, i think something needs to be done. and i say: cut down the range by half, reduce number of granades, but tripple the damage of each granade. then you can make it auto targeting, and at the same time put some SENSE to this.

you clearly mistook grenades for Bomb kit .

nope i didnt. i think you cannot throw a granade (no, wait, SEVERAL nades) with your bare hand twice as far as you can shoot an arrow with a bow. or even farther than a mortar can. no sense at all.

in addition granades in gw2 explode on impact, not with a timer.