Let’s look at weaver real quick and notice all of their weapons get cool new additions. Can we PLEASE have heat interactions with all weapons for Engineer? it’s not like we have many weapons to begin with. I want a reason to want to use my Rifle or Pistols again. There are just so many cool options that could be, if this were a thing.
Edit: Removed “Side note” as it added nothing to this very important issue.
I can agree with the first point: It would be nice if we got heat upgrades to all weapons we can use. Its not like we need completely new skills like weaver, only a trait that scales damage and/or applies some condies based on heat level.
on the side note however, nah, not needed I think. that would increase the amount of stuff they would need to properly balance.
Instead of trying to tailor each skill, it should just have a trait that modifies outgoing damage, outgoing effects, or generically trigger on crit/hit. That would be the most efficient way to include both weapons and kits into the spec, without having to generate a second set of skills that have to balanced separately.
IMO this HAS to be done. BUT only AFTER fixing the many imbalances and weakneses on pistols, shield and rifle (Hammer seems to be in the right place).
It has to be done because Elite Specs must create new options for all the profession elements, not limit their synergy to the new traits, skills and weapons.
It must happen after weapon fixes, because weapons must be able to stand on their own without Elite Specs. ESpecs are there to add diversity, not to repair base problems in the profession.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
I’m totally fine with my side note being received poorly, it should have been its own thread (not that it’s even that important.) But heat benefiting all weapons (or at LEAST a skill with each?) is absolutely necessary.
I don’t think ANYONE wants to feel locked into sword as the only weapon that we should use because otherwise we would gain way less benefit from our heat outside of Holo Forge. Rifle really needs some love, that’s the one I’m most hoping for. Just make heat increase its damage or make Rifle 3 do full damage at its max range or something. Longer leap? I dunno, there’s lots of options… Longer net? Faster shots? \o/
Did anyone try Holo underwater? Does it even work?
Revenant haven’t gotten a single elite spec that functions underwater yet, so I’d say it’s possible Engie is the same… But maybe not, there is an ever decreasing level of care and energy put into some of the elite specs.
Revenant has the least players, maybe that is why they didn’t bother to give us a single choice for underwater combat. Not even after two elite specializations.
However, as someone who loves the engineer, I fully support giving heat mechanics for other weapons. It’s like the weaver was designed to remind the other specs how little time they had for them. ;P
Revenant haven’t gotten a single elite spec that functions underwater yet, so I’d say it’s possible Engie is the same… But maybe not, there is an ever decreasing level of care and energy put into some of the elite specs.
No, they just completely forgot that underwater combat exist. Like really, in the beta there were no underwater ANYTHING for Revenant and answer to questions about that on forum can be summarised as “ups, kitten”.
Revenant haven’t gotten a single elite spec that functions underwater yet, so I’d say it’s possible Engie is the same… But maybe not, there is an ever decreasing level of care and energy put into some of the elite specs.
No, they just completely forgot that underwater combat exist. Like really, in the beta there were no underwater ANYTHING for Revenant and answer to questions about that on forum can be summarised as “ups, kitten”.
I completely agree. Engineer only has a few weapons, the heat mechanic really should do something to all of them. This to me is the last missing piece of Holosmith, otherwise I think it’s a really solid spec.
Oh and Holosmith works underwater so let’s add to speargun also
From what I remember, Sword (as well as the Exceed skills) having built-in Heat bonuses comes from the fact that the traits only affect the Forge mode. There are no Sword or Exceed utility traits so they used the Heat mechanic to give them bonuses. We also have the two GM traits that provide bonus damage (2 might stacks per second while above 100 Heat, Gain Laser’s Edge after overheat explosion). So there are some alternative weapon benefits to heat use.
That said, I DO wish that we gained some other kind of benefit from ECSU other than might stacking. (Precision or Ferocity perhaps), and that Thermal Release Valve gave some kind of damage boost for conditions. Something like +150 Expertise while above 50 Heat. Although I’m personally afraid of that kind of buff as it puts you in one of those “don’t dodge or you lose your damage” situations like that Tools minor trait that was reworked.
Mortar Shot is STILL nerfed by 28%
Purity of Purpose
I don’t get this thing: Engineer whole point it’s that it’s not based on his “military” weapon skills (it’s not a sniper, the base atk is called “hip shot”), but on the use of amazing tools of mass destruction.
This is the core of the spec, kits, gyros, slick shoes, bombs and the holo, which basically is another kit based on holograms.
That’s for the “we don’t have many base weapons” complaint. We can go with five kits maximum for a devastating amount of 25 abilities not counting the tool belt. I mean.
Yes having heat on other weapons would make sense but it would also unbalance the game: if heat boosts them too much then the Holo’s way too strong. So they would nerf them, but then non-holo would be too weak.
A solution could be that baseline holo has a passive that decreases let’s say damage by 10% on the weapo but has heat intervals: let’s be honest, no one wants that crap.
Sword is a very weak weapon, that’s why it needs heat to be played along: pistols are strong and rifle is too, compared to sword, I think things are fine as they are
Sword being intentionally weak to justify the heat bonuses is just about the worst argument against this topic I can think of.
The thing to me is they chose to have the trait line exclusively affect PF. Which is cool, it’s an interesting design choice but I’m not against that. It’s unique and at least the general feeling in the first few hours was the trait choices are meaningful.
The reason why I feel strongly about this topic is because you do not only need to compare to other PoF elite specs, but no other trait line in the game period is so isolated from the rest of the profession. The fact they chose to go with PF exclusive traits is okay in and of itself, but without also spreading the heat mechanic to the rest of the profession—at the very least the other weapons—it is a big reason of why people say the Holo feels very disjointed from Engi. It’s not just the playstyle is a bit different, it’s that it is literally disjointed from the rest of Engi like no other trait line is.
We can go with five kits maximum for a devastating amount of 25 abilities not counting the tool belt.
You know those kits share the cooldown you get when you enter holo forge right? Running a bunch of kits is kind of a terrible idea with holosmith. It’s also not all about the fact that things work, it’s about wanting MORE things to work.
I for one will be using Rifle most likely, simply because I missed it, and I love it. But we could still get a little Holo interplay with old stuff, other elite specs got changes for their old weapons, why not engineer?
Also the fact that you mentioned all those kits, which all benefit basically 0 from heat. You see the argument goes both ways.
As a long time Engineer main, you’d think I support this, but I don’t. At least not this year. Sword looks fun and interesting and I’m excited to see where Holosmith fits in the meta.
Comparisons to Weaver and Soulbeast in terms of mechanic envy or skill numbers don’t work with Holosmith. Photon Forge is the new weapon swap kit swap. While Weaver and Soulbeast may have umpteen new skills, they don’t get to use them all at the same time.
Again, maybe down the road like a year, when the meta is settled, but calling for heat to affect rifle, pistols, and shield can be boiled down to this argument: “we are already pigeonholed into a weapon set. Please don’t let us try out a sword and make sure we remain pigeonholed into weapons we’ve had for five years.”
“we are already pigeonholed into a weapon set. Please don’t let us try out a sword and make sure we remain pigeonholed into weapons we’ve had for five years.”
You don’t see the irony in that statement? You don’t see how we could easily get “Pigeonholed” into only ever using sword, because none of the other weapons are affected by the heat mechanic?
I for one miss our core engi weapons more than I am excited for sword. Yeah it’s fun, but It doesn’t represent Engineer as iconically as pistols or rifle. The biggest thing is, like you said, I want options meaning NOT being pigeonholed into any one weapon.
1- Balance base weapons and trait lines so they are viable without elite specs.
2- Balance elite specs traits and skills so they aren’t OP and have sinergy with every base weapon.
3- Balance sword and hammer so they are on par with the base weapons while highlighting their spec mechanic.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
Yes having heat on other weapons would make sense but it would also unbalance the game: if heat boosts them too much then the Holo’s way too strong. So they would nerf them, but then non-holo would be too weak.
You’re looking at it from only one angle, they can nerf Photon Forge which is unique to Holosmith and create/improve weapon synergies with heat.
It just depends on how much dependence on Photon Forge they think is good to keep for Holosmith theme, they can play with that all they want. At the moment, Photon Forge is a huge dependence, naturally.
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1- Balance base weapons and trait lines so they are viable without elite specs.
2- Balance elite specs traits and skills so they aren’t OP and have sinergy with every base weapon.
3- Balance sword and hammer so they are on par with the base weapons while highlighting their spec mechanic.
Pretty much.
Until step 1 is done, we will continue to have issues.
Yeah if in fact heat damage is limited to sword that has GOT to change definitely because it pigeonholes the class into a single weapon and many people including me, hybridize our elite specs to suit our needs. Losing that damage to rifle for example is simply unacceptable.
One example of how I hybridized the last elite spec you placed on the class, is I made a healer Engineer with multiple quickness options so that I could heal myself whenever I entered a blast and whenever I hit max on my gadget points (5), I used heal+condi armor for my armor and it had toughness on it but I also included the toughness building options for my traits in the elite spec line. I didn’t use a hammer at all I used pistol/shield to synergize protection with lower cooldown and used it as another blast. Instead of using all gyros I used healing turret thumper turret cleanse gyro Elixir R and Supply Drop. I was able to also include explosives as a trait line so that I could benefit from the turrets exploding damage and the extra mines from dodging and the mines from the other trait line for bunker. I also included the boons from building turrets. All of these combined into a great support spec with lots of defense with ranged as the focus.
I plan on doing something similar with explosives with the new elite spec but we definitely need to fix this damage bonus lock that you have on the sword because that goes against your philosophy of “playing how you want to play” and “diversity”.
It would be cool, and I fully support this change, but sword is pretty pathetic as is. You have PLENTY of reason to continue using Rifle and Pistol. In fact, I think most ‘meta’ Holomancer builds will continue using Rifle and Pistol.
Which is saying a lot, because all of our core weapons are pretty crap compared to other classes.
It’s almost like their engineer “theme” is “weak.”
Yeah if in fact heat damage is limited to sword that has GOT to change definitely because it pigeonholes the class into a single weapon and many people including me, hybridize our elite specs to suit our needs. Losing that damage to rifle for example is simply unacceptable.
The funny thing is all the people claiming it would unbalance the class. Umm… have they seen our core weapons? They’re all bad. Giving them heat buffs would only bring them up to an acceptable level. Considering that these core weapons absolutely require kits to be useful, and PF locks us out of kits, there needs to be work done.
Rifle:
Garbage damage in PvE.
Serious projectile hate in PvP and WvW.
Single-target, moderate damage, moderate CC’s = weak in PvP and WvW
Pistol:
Acceptable damage in PvE, when combined with kits, but worthless compared to grenade kit
Serious projectile hate in PvP and WvW
Condi-only, vulnerable to heavy condi removal or reversal by virtually any necro
Auto attack is trash, only skills worth bothering with are blowtorch and lightning shot
Shield:
Actually ok, but cooldowns are crap
I’d also point out that engineer is the class worst affected by projectile flight times (by rapidly strafing many of our shots can be avoided), but that seems like piling on at this point. Hell, a heat bonus affecting projectile flight times might actually be a serious buff.
I’m not going to do the Harpoon Gun, but it also needs to beneficiate from heat, and the Sword should be slightly buffed, especially the core damage and Refraction Cutter:
Refraction Cutter – Level 2 – Additional Blades: 4 (in a cone in front of the holosmith) / Level 3 – Additional Blades: 8 (in an AoE around the holosmith)
Rifle 1: Gain increase damage/crit chance, increased range and reflects have no effect. Lose 10% heat per shot
Pistol 1: Gain additional burning (3s) per shot and reflects have no effect. Lose 10% heat per shot.
A different take on heat management. Offers something to counter the projectile hate and improve both the pistol and rifle without going too overboard.
I’m not going to do the Harpoon Gun, but it also needs to beneficiate from heat, and the Sword should be slightly buffed, especially the core damage and Refraction Cutter:
Refraction Cutter – Level 2 – Additional Blades: 4 (in a cone in front of the holosmith) / Level 3 – Additional Blades: 8 (in an AoE around the holosmith)
Just came to say there’s a lot of great suggestions in here. Let’s hope ArenaNet reconsiders their poor decision to not include other weapons with the Heat system so we’re not railroaded into using sword.
Whose soul do I have to reap to get a Necro rework around here?
Alhtough I think some of the ideas here are really fun and interesting, I can’t support any change to the Engie weapons that “fix” them through the use of the Holosmith.
Any improvement made to weapon skills thanks to the Heat mechanic MUST be an extra for the Holosmith. Something that makes the weapon behave “Holosmith’ty”, a nice adittion that is fun and useful for Holosmith builds only.
The weapons MUST be improved, fixed and balanced on their own. Rifle have to be repaired so it properly works with vanilla engie, pistols and shield HAVE to be balanced so they become desirable outside any Elite Spec.
Elite Spects should NOT become crutches. Engie needs to be properly improved from the base.
“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks
There really wouldn’t be anything to lose if weapons were to retroactively benefit from heat. We can only use 1 weapon anyways, and rifle isn’t good on its own anyways.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
The weapons MUST be improved, fixed and balanced on their own. Rifle have to be repaired so it properly works with vanilla engie, pistols and shield HAVE to be balanced so they become desirable outside any Elite Spec.
I think that’s a fair statement as well, and hopefully we see some buffs to rifle with the PoF balance patch. Although a lot of damage for base Engi comes our kits, we shouldn’t have to run a kit to be able to put out damage.
Unfortunately, that’s the case with most professions; they’re bottle necked into a few builds while the rest of the abilities and weapons collect dust. I think that almost all base professions need a buff/rework so that they’re more competitive and on par with elite specializations.
Whose soul do I have to reap to get a Necro rework around here?
…….
-BUT not all the weapons are affected by heat and that’s sad.
So as I have seen that many ask why heat don’t affect other weapons, I decide to make news “heat” skills for all engineer weapons, including riffle but without hammer due to the spec Scrapper, Also dual sword can be done, but last skills must be powerful:
We still haven’t received a response on this even from the community managers. It would be nice to see if someone at least said “I’ll ask the balance team about this”
We still haven’t received a response on this even from the community managers. It would be nice to see if someone at least said “I’ll ask the balance team about this”
The class subforums are where conversations with ANet go to die — they don’t read them. You’ll have better luck on Reddit or Twitter.
