Guild Wars 2

so after spending a few days trying out turrets in dungeons as 30-10-0-030 grenade engie i found it can be good and bad.

for example, i have ground target turrets so alot of fights i can pop them on ledges above a boss and they last the entire fight.

but in other fights i can deploy a turret 10-20 seconds after a fight starts to avoid “agro” and they would be killed seconds later by a ground target aoe e.g subject alphas dragon tooth (this is just 1 example of many bosses that do this)
and lvl 48 fractals is not a turret friendly place either

so a few ideas for DUNGEONS only as i do like the idea of turrets but in there current form where most encounters in dungeons are aoe heavy.

dungeons would include the following

story mode
explorable mode
fractals
living story dungeons

as not any one of these involve any pvp at all or have any link to pvp and would only affect turrets when inside a dungeon there is no need to comment on it being OP.

imagine if warrior banners took dmg from aoe / boss attacks how long would it take before anet gave them aoe immunity ?

1. turrets cause no threat when placed inside a dungeon and have AoE damage immunity ( DUNGEONS ONLY still take full aoe dmg in pvp / wvw)

2. turrets cause no threat and immune to all damage, this would stop turrets blowing them self up on reflect spells

3. turrets cause no threat and bosses do not target turrets with any spell or affect / ground target aoe (would only apply to dungeosn only)

considering i want to use turrets to complement my build and not have a build focused on turrets or any points spent in the inventions tree.

this would also make turrets viable for any build in DUNGEONS allowing them to be used with out any worry from being killed 5 seconds after deploying them even if using the ground target turret trait.

this would not work in open world PVE WVW or SPVP / TPVP. so cant be used for “botting” or unkillable turrets in any form of pvp.
so no need for any kind of “BUT ITS OP IN PVP”rubbish.

and the turrets could use the new target system

TLDR give turrets in PVE DUNGEONS AOE IMMUNITY / no threat so engineers can atleast use a core mechanic of the class in pve with out any change to pvp at all.

i know people will try and say its a bad idea and we have traits blah blah, well i dont want to use any traits in the inventions tree and i want to use turrets along side my build.
as would many other engineers in dungeons.

The last thing ANet wants are skills that behave wildly different between PVE and PVP…

i would also like to use an example from another game and how they sorted the problem engineers in GW2 currently face. and i assure you its all relevent

a long time ago World of Warcraft came to life and they had a class called the Shaman.
the shamans mechanics was based around totems and these can be compared to turrets in gw2 as they do basicly work exactly the same.

example. the shaman would drop a fire totem and it would shoot fire balls at a target or a earth totem and it would root the target in place if it got very close to the totem.

so how is this relevent i hear you cry.

they are placed on the floor with 5 health and unable to move. they would be instantly killed by any aoe in game or any direct damage.

so how did blizzard fix this problem

they gave the totems aoe immunity but they still took dmg from direct attacks. this was all good for pvp aspect but in pve when raids came this was still a problem.

so when the totems attacked a PVE NPC all threat generated by the totem was counted as the shamans threat and the totem itself removed from any threat tables in combat (they ofc can still agro a boss if placed in its agro range as it counts as the shaman)

its 2013 and we have a aoe heavy game that does not provide protection for fragile summons / pets / minions in dungeons where they dont live very long at all

well digiowl maybe it is time they seperated pvp wvw and pve

they are ALREADY going to add a health value change to all summons / pets / minions on the 15th

and they are clearlya ble to add pve and pvp only skills

example early after gw2 release they nerfed some skills so they only did 10% less dmg when in spvp etc.

its time they fixed certain aspects of pet / minon / turret classes in pve

Turrets have the same problem Ranger pets have. They get ripped to shred by AOE, and it becomes more and more of a problem as you get to higher level WvW and PVE.

bump for turret justice

krixis.9538:

so after spending a few days trying out turrets in dungeons as 30-10-0-030 grenade engie i found it can be good and bad.

for example, i have ground target turrets so alot of fights i can pop them on ledges above a boss and they last the entire fight.

but in other fights i can deploy a turret 10-20 seconds after a fight starts to avoid “agro” and they would be killed seconds later by a ground target aoe e.g subject alphas dragon tooth (this is just 1 example of many bosses that do this)
and lvl 48 fractals is not a turret friendly place either

It realy depends on the fight, turrets shine when they are isolated from their targets and when the engineer has enough toughness to grab agro away from them. They are only bad when it comes to rooms filled with random AoEs, targeted ones are still manadgeable.

krixis.9538:

so a few ideas for DUNGEONS only as i do like the idea of turrets but in there current form where most encounters in dungeons are aoe heavy.

dungeons would include the following
…
as not any one of these involve any pvp at all or have any link to pvp and would only affect turrets when inside a dungeon there is no need to comment on it being OP.

krixis.9538:

Seperated it in different subsection for PvE is already a bad idea, A-net is already going to seperate it from PvP by adding more Hp for PvE players. It doesn’t need another category.

Banners can not be destroyed because they are bundle, you can pick them up as a weapon in any fights and relocate them where you need them to be. They also have 0 offensive abilities and their sole purpose is to buff the party and use their Blast Finisher for extra combo effects.

krixis.9538:

imagine if warrior banners took dmg from aoe / boss attacks how long would it take before anet gave them aoe immunity ?

Remember what happend to the guardian spirit weapons? You got A-net answer.

krixis.9538:

1. turrets cause no threat …

2. turrets cause no threat …

3. turrets cause no threat …

1) Ennemies should consider turret as a threat, they shoot bullets, rockets, flames, shock waves, nets and heals the Engineer allies around them, why would a foe ignore that?

2) They only blow themself up on reflects because you didn’t take the defensive tools to counter that problem. The Wrench and Autotool-Instalation trait take care of that issue. You want them to survive reflect skills, well take tools at your disposal to repair them or use a Flame or Thumper turret that doesn’t suffer from reflect skills.

3) Turrets are already ignoring some of the AoEs wich targets every players in range because they are considered as structures and not NPCs, they are only vulnerable to these effects when players are near of them or when they take aggro from that specific encounter. And it isn’t that bad either, do you prefere to see the OS abilities from a Legendary shoot one of your allies down or loose a turret instead?

krixis.9538:

this would also make turrets viable for any build in DUNGEONS allowing them to be used with out any worry from being killed 5 seconds after deploying them even if using the ground target turret trait.

It would also make almost every Invention traitlines related to turrets pointless and make turret gameplay brainless. If they get destroyed 5sec later after you deployed one, you either lack toughness or put them on the wrong spot.

krixis.9538:

this would not work in open world PVE WVW or SPVP / TPVP. so cant be used for “botting” or unkillable turrets in any form of pvp.
so no need for any kind of “BUT ITS OP IN PVP”rubbish.

Offensive turrets with defensive traits could already kill ennemies without the help of the Engineer and can sutain long enough to take care of dynamic events. A-net took care of this issue by adding a 5min duration limitation to every turrets. So even with or without invulnerability a player would still requiere to replace them every 5 minuts (+Turret cooldown), making AFK bot impossible unless you use a third party mod.

krixis.9538:

and the turrets could use the new target system

You should realy read the forum more before posting random stuff like that, Turrets are going to target the last ennemy hit by the Engineer on october 15, so we will even be able to shoot at dragons with our turrets now.

krixis.9538:

TLDR give turrets in PVE DUNGEONS AOE IMMUNITY /
…
as would many other engineers in dungeons.

Well you made the choice to make them more fragile, so don’t ask for a Jail Free card that renders other traits pointless. You want your turrets to be effective, OK, trait for them or assume the fact they are weaker than a proper traited turret Engineer.

krixis.9538:

i would also like to use an example from another game and how they sorted the problem engineers in GW2 currently face. and i assure you its all relevent

a long time ago World of Warcraft came to life and they had a class called the Shaman.
the shamans mechanics was based around totems and these can be compared to turrets in gw2 as they do basicly work exactly the same.
…
its 2013 and we have a aoe heavy game that does not provide protection for fragile summons / pets / minions in dungeons where they dont live very long at all

World of Warcraft is a bad exemple because unlike Guild Wars 2, AoEs don’t have any cap limitation. Instead they get diminushing returns when they exceed a fixed ammount of targets on the location.

A better exemple would be to take Champions Online wich use a similar limitation on AoEs and added during a period of time a 75% damage reduction on every summoning powers. This made the game ridiculous because Cosmic ennemies (wich were the toughest ones) were not even hitting players when the numbers of summons were exceeding the AoE cap from the boss (usualy 10-15). They nerfed it back to 50% and added an option with traits to get up to 70% to more specialised builds.

Now imagine this in PvE or PvP whenever that cap gets reached, any pets, minions or turrets would just soak every damage done to players should they be packed all together, making zerg rush even more unbalanced.

You are just asking for another broken mechanic and use bad exemple to make your point. So for me, your sugestion is a big no unless they make that AoE protection limited to a proc on cooldown.

Turrets are fine in fratcals! You can make a konga line of them to protect yourself against “tom’s” spinning move. Also you can have the flame turret at the back of any stacking, and have it overchange smoke giving you aoe blindness along side your smokebomb and what else the party has.

Hehe you just need to be alittle creative :-)

Sarah