Patch Frustration - 4 year Engi main

Patch Frustration - 4 year Engi main

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Posted by: Eastcorn.5901

Eastcorn.5901

(split into two posts)

So another balance patch drops, and once again, many engineer mains are underwhelmed.

The changes are documented here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-October-18-2016/first#post6368392

These changes show a clear disconnect between where the skills team want to see improvements, and where the engineer community wants to see improvements.

For the past few patches, the individuals responsible for balancing Engineers have made changes that make no sense, or are extremely inadequate.

For instance, the buff to bomb kit. A buff to power builds for sure. But here is the problem: we are ALWAYS forced into Bomb and Grenade kit. Either as condi, or power builds. Do you know what we wanted? We wanted changes to rifle. We wanted rifle (hammer, for some) to become the additional element to increase our DPS abilities. We wanted changes for rifle that would allow us to perhaps drop bomb kit in favour of other skills, so that we aren’t shoehorned into the same playstyles over and over again. In PvE we have been living in the shadow of explosives for too long.

A buff to shield is very welcome, but how can we use shield and also give up off-hand pistol? In all gametypes, the trade-off for losing off-hand pistol is too great. Blowtorch is THAT powerful and dominant in the P/P skillset. Do you want us to use Overshield more? Overshield offers a measly 4 seconds of protection! Why would we want to use that over superior traits?

The damage buff to rocket boots is laughable. Rocket boots functions as an escape. When we use it in any gametype, we reserve it for when we NEED TO MOVE. Furthermore, utility goggles having a shorter cooldown is not going to make us use it more. The problem with gadgets is FUNCTIONALITY. Why would I take rocket boots, when I can bring Elixir gun, which has a stun break (which you removed from rocket boots), condi clear, leap and more? Why would I take Utility Goggles, when I can bring far more versatile skills? Personal Battering Ram is outshined by Flamethrower, which gives me an AOE knockback, as well as a PBAOE blind. AED will never be used so long as it has that cast time. It is unreliable when there is so much CC in PvP. Cut down on CC, or cut down on the cast time on AED. Otherwise I will never touch AED.

Gadgets will never be seriously used until you address their inferior usage in comparison to kits. Elixirs will never be used seriously (with the exclusion of Elixir S and Elixir X toolbelt) until you make their supportive effects comparative to kits. Elixir B only gives ONE stack of might. ONE. The only reason I have ever taken it was for the toolbelt stability, and the condition clear with Alchemy.

Speaking of Alchemy. This traitline, in my opinion, has been the defining failure for Anet in terms of establishing Engineer diversity. For years, in PvP and WvW we have been forced to take Alchemy to survive. After continuous nerfs to Self Regulating Defenses, we are still forced to use it, because we have nothing else. How else can we deal with conditions? Alchemy, a traitline full of passiveness. A traitline that contains nothing that scales with an Engineer’s skill. Inventions is inadequate in the condi-clear department, and tools has nothing to help us with conditions.

Despite the fact that we have been stuck with Alchemy for so long, you nerf Gear shield. One of the active skills that truly helps Engineers who refuse to use Alchemy. Engineers who prefer to use Tools, which offers a myriad of more fun and exciting traits, relied on gear shield to overcome the power-creep of HoT. It was the Tools version of Self Regulating Defenses. But no, you decided to nerf it. Why?

The nerf to Gyros is the most laughable of the changes, only because of your justification. “Purity of Purpose”? Why do you mention such a thing, but not define what you mean? Is your purpose for gyros that we not detonate them early for the daze, but rather keep them out for the buffs? Why are you controlling the purpose of gyros, instead of letting the community dictate this? We don’t want to use gyros passively, we want to actively use them in an offensive manner. We want to control our enemies. It’s not our fault that the only gyros that have a good passive effect are Purge and Bulwark (and stealth gyro, but we use that for the passive anyway). Perhaps if you improved the targeting on Blast gyro (so it can fly down cliffs), or improved…EVERYTHING on Shredder gyro, we would find active uses for passive abilities. But you didn’t, so we won’t.

(edited by Eastcorn.5901)

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Posted by: Eastcorn.5901

Eastcorn.5901

This has been happening for the last 4 years. 3 years ago in an interview, someone addressed Engineer’s issues, the reply was “well they have grenades”. And we were stuck with grenade spamming for years. About one year later, Anet described their vision for Engineers. They said that “engineers are versatile, but make a tradeoff for that versatility”. And then a few paragraphs later, they dub elementalists the “kings of versatility”, with no mention of tradeoffs. And ever since then, we have been shoehorned again and again into singular playstyles, with almost no wiggle room. I don’t see any evidence that Anet has any vision for the future of this class.

I don’t see any value in this class anymore. I’m starting to consider leaving GW2 entirely, but I have friends who play, and I actually do love this game. But I am definitely changing my main now.

I’ll probably swap to Ranger, since our guild still needs a powerful condition class. We all know that Necro isn’t so hot in raids anymore. But hey, at least they didn’t touch epidemic. Heck, fractal frequenters are even saying 5 Viper Reapers might be the new meta. Fancy that?

Anyway, for those of you who read all of this, thanks for hearing me out. I’d love to hear everyone else’s opinions.

Engineer is still very very strong, but the lack of diversity has killed it for me.

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Posted by: Ivantreil.3092

Ivantreil.3092

Living with kits for forever…. sadly im already used to it

PvP Rifle Engi player no matter how dark the meta is.

Metabattle: Drunk Engineer build

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

My current build:

Rifle ( because I like ranged pew pew and rocket jump)

  • Explosives (for grenade speed + damage)
  • Tools ( for gear shield…RIP, + swiftness )
  • Scrapper ( for sneak gyro + defense )

Skills:

  • Healing Turret – takes too long to cast now, but it’s literally my only condi cleanse
  • Grenades – sucks because of HoT projectile hate and retaliation damage
  • Rocket Boots – I should be using Elixir Gun, but I like Rocket Boots even though they’re worse
  • Toolkit – for defense.. but that’s nerfed now.
  • Sneak Gyro – for defense/escape/surprise

This build has no stability, no stunbreak, only cleanses 2 condis per 20s, and now has practically no defense. What do I get for my trouble? Nothing. High risk. no reward.

(edited by coro.3176)

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Posted by: Eastcorn.5901

Eastcorn.5901

Exactly.

You should be rewarded by increasing the risk.

Unfortunately, even ballsy builds are forced into Alchemy now. This is the price of the stagnation forced on us by poor decision making.

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

The problem with Alchemy is that it then forces you to run elixirs, and I just don’t want to do that. The whole point of Engineer dating waaaaaaay back to the start of the game was that you had flexibility from switching kits and complicated skill rotations and skill-based gameplay.

Elixirs aren’t that. Hammer isn’t that.

Make Engi Great Again? .. Please? .. or at least stop nerfing things like Gear Shield?

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Posted by: Renny.6571

Renny.6571

I feel like Anet’s balance philosophy for engi is to just write down anything that’s currently viable in the meta, put it into a basket and draw to see what’s nerfed. Gyro dazes and TK struck out this time.

elite specs ruined pvp.

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Posted by: Eastcorn.5901

Eastcorn.5901

Yep. I don’t know what their plan is, but it’s frustrating as hell.

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Posted by: Samug.6512

Samug.6512

Yep. I don’t know what their plan is, but it’s frustrating as hell.

The plan is to make engi skills so messed-up and with no purpose that people stop playing it, and then just ninja-delete the profession. After few more ‘balance’ patches like this one, nobody will notice.

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

Does anyone in ANET even play Engineer? the Devs or anyone at all? If they did they would know……apparently “Scotty doesn’t know”!

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Posted by: LilBiM.3581

LilBiM.3581

Yeah, I’m going to go play something else for at least the next three-four months. Hopefully by then I remember this disaster still exists. If not, it was fun!

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Posted by: Soon.5240

Soon.5240

Anet is actively and purposefully trying to drive build diversity from the game – across ALL professions. They are “all in” on third-party sponsered, eSport PvP as their main revenue generating vehicle. And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, those of us who do not define our end game around PvP are constantly being bombarded with changes that can only be explained via PvP.

As a 4k+ hour Engi myself, it’s sad to see how the most versatile, “jack-of-all-trades and master of none” and “always the right tool for the right job” profession has been made so one dimensional.

When is the last time that any serious theory-crafting thread has been seen on the Engi forums?

Anet knows exactly what they are doing by neglecting what the non-PvP community really wants.

We really need to see a separation – once again – of PvP from the rest of the game…..

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

When is the last time that any serious theory-crafting thread has been seen on the Engi forums?

Only thing close to anything like that is my thread that took on a life of its own.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rifle-as-a-power-weapon-kinda-meh

be nice to see some more and even better if ANET had a look at them!

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Posted by: NightDugalle.7610

NightDugalle.7610

Been Engi from the very start of the game, my first class i ever played, first class i got my Legendary on, First class to get all Ascended gear. Gyro nerfs do not hurt me because i never took to scrapper, Rifle forever. However the F all care that the devs are giving to my main class has honestly made me go back to Playing Warcraft until they get their act together with fixing the class and making it worth my time playing again.

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Posted by: judgement.9782

judgement.9782

Same I’ve mained an Engi always loved the idea yet Anet never seems to come close to their potential in the world of gw2 combat. Then here when we had scrapper and were on par with other classes damage and sustain wise we get nerfed into the ground while other classes that are very op keep getting more buffs. Every time i fight I really feel like i need a new game.

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

However the F all care that the devs are giving to my main class has honestly made me go back to Playing Warcraft until they get their act together with fixing the class and making it worth my time playing again.

This I fear is going to happen more and more. And oh my god has WOW been dumbed down, its sad really as it kinda gives people nowhere to go.
Hoping ANET comes back around and tweaks this so-called “balance” patch a bit.

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Posted by: Renny.6571

Renny.6571

When is the last time that any serious theory-crafting thread has been seen on the Engi forums?

Only thing close to anything like that is my thread that took on a life of its own.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rifle-as-a-power-weapon-kinda-meh

be nice to see some more and even better if ANET had a look at them!

I’ve tried starting up a discussion about the Explosives traitline as well as offerin up some overhaul ideas. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Let-s-talk-Explosives/first#post6367021

elite specs ruined pvp.

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Posted by: Joxer.6024

Joxer.6024

When is the last time that any serious theory-crafting thread has been seen on the Engi forums?

Only thing close to anything like that is my thread that took on a life of its own.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Rifle-as-a-power-weapon-kinda-meh

be nice to see some more and even better if ANET had a look at them!

I’ve tried starting up a discussion about the Explosives traitline as well as offerin up some overhaul ideas. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Let-s-talk-Explosives/first#post6367021

Now, how the hell do we get ANET to look at that stuff? And I don’t use reddit enough to have a clue but maybe posts over there as well? I heard that’s where they look often?

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Posted by: coro.3176

coro.3176

Honestly? Post it on the gw2 subreddit. They actually read that.. unlike this forum.

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Posted by: guildabd.6529

guildabd.6529

Because our dev is a slacker. (or we don’t have any dev)
#EngiTBDForever

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Posted by: Dirame.8521

Dirame.8521

Some of the points you mention, I think, are invalid. Elixirs to be exact. Have been good and will always be good. Giving them more functionally outside of what they already do would be silly.

And whilst I think it was silly for them to remove the gyro daze when there’s so much to fix about the engie, I personally don’t regard it as much of a nerf. We can already apply more dazes than a naked person walking down the street.

I make guides to builds you may not have heard of;
http://www.youtube.com/user/ceimash
http://www.twitch.tv/ceimash

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

Elixirs good? Maybe in PvP, but in PvE they were always terrible. Tossing them is just unnecessarily clunky, aside from the weak effects, and even their effects on the engineer itself aren’t even good enough to warrant their use instead of some kit. Whatever is provided for personal use via HGH can just be given at the whole party by some other member, or via blast finishers on fire fields.
Sure, if you just have to camp a point and no one else can give you that might, they’re better than nothing. The rest of the game just doesn’t work like that, though.

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

So…this update nerfed my Bunker Busting build I created during the PvP season of bunker builds. I still have never seen any builds that came close to mine (I love non meta and original). The amount of CC’s made my build a counter to bunkers. When they nerfed bunker builds and DPS came back, I fared well vs those as well. Then came the changes to Sneak Gyro and gyros now had a cast time. I went with it as the build was still feasible vs bunker and vs dps (crap vs condis tho, but thanks to the stun on blowing up gyros, I could usually cc them down long enough without getting condi bombed) Then a change lightning clap and the #2. Less CC but still barely managed vs condi classes. Now there is no stun on the gyros, my survivability on a build I have created is nerfed hard. Its no secret that condis are 80%+ of engi’s weakness (ive also played condi builds so I know this from years of experience). I understand that now my build (and those that utilized the stuns on gyros) that relied on skill to avoid condi bombs, now are weaker to it.

I don’t usually rant, but this one hit me really hard (4 gyros and an elixir) as I PvP with this.

Time to go back to the thoerycrafting board and make another nerfable build.

*I also copied/pasted this from another thread

/endrant

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: judgement.9782

judgement.9782

So…this update nerfed my Bunker Busting build I created during the PvP season of bunker builds. I still have never seen any builds that came close to mine (I love non meta and original). The amount of CC’s made my build a counter to bunkers. When they nerfed bunker builds and DPS came back, I fared well vs those as well. Then came the changes to Sneak Gyro and gyros now had a cast time. I went with it as the build was still feasible vs bunker and vs dps (crap vs condis tho, but thanks to the stun on blowing up gyros, I could usually cc them down long enough without getting condi bombed) Then a change lightning clap and the #2. Less CC but still barely managed vs condi classes. Now there is no stun on the gyros, my survivability on a build I have created is nerfed hard. Its no secret that condis are 80%+ of engi’s weakness (ive also played condi builds so I know this from years of experience). I understand that now my build (and those that utilized the stuns on gyros) that relied on skill to avoid condi bombs, now are weaker to it.

I don’t usually rant, but this one hit me really hard (4 gyros and an elixir) as I PvP with this.

Time to go back to the thoerycrafting board and make another nerfable build.

*I also copied/pasted this from another thread

/endrant

I feel ya I tirelessly worked on a custom made build tweaking changing stats traits unlike any others in WvW. I still had a hard time against these meta hot builds but it worked now we are reduced to having only one stun/cc with no others viable. In WvW its a joke now attempting to counter anyone. we are now unable to interupt heavy hitting or healing skills with only one kitten stun while other classes run around with enough to perma stun and the crazy high damage to insta drop people. Now even with classes just walking in combat make landing hits hard and classes with high mobility or warrior with perma stab its impossible to land a stun to hold them still to apply damage.

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

Wvw problem is different and imho not bound to engineer as class.
There are specs that with food, trinkets and whatever have an incredible toughness, great condi remove , really good damage. It is a problem of stat balance more than single class imho. Wvw is completely broken from a balance point , as gametype itself ( 20 vs 200 ) and as stats

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Posted by: Rezzet.3614

Rezzet.3614

Elixirs good? Maybe in PvP, but in PvE they were always terrible. Tossing them is just unnecessarily clunky, aside from the weak effects, and even their effects on the engineer itself aren’t even good enough to warrant their use instead of some kit. Whatever is provided for personal use via HGH can just be given at the whole party by some other member, or via blast finishers on fire fields.
Sure, if you just have to camp a point and no one else can give you that might, they’re better than nothing. The rest of the game just doesn’t work like that, though.

elixirs rock in pve if you go for a perma quickness.might and fury build and 50-80% protection uptime , probably 90% with durability runes.

golden dumplings+ strength sigil

smack all the things

not so fun in pvp though , thanks to mesmers and necros eating boons (sometimes thief too)

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Posted by: redwing.9580

redwing.9580

Because our dev is a slacker. (or we don’t have any dev)
#EngiTBDForever

he is busy working on druid

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Posted by: Samug.6512

Samug.6512

Engineer dev? Don’t make us laugh.