Pinpoint Distribution: Not good enough?

Pinpoint Distribution: Not good enough?

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

On paper this trait seems pretty good, and synergizes really well with a lot of popular builds in PvP … especially those that use the Rabid/Rampager amulets. But there’s one big problem with these choices. Running baseline vitality as an engineer right now is pretty much suicide against half the classes in this game in any 1v1 situation, and any focus fire spells a quick end in team fights.

Conditions are just too strong right now to run baseline vitality amulets for engineers, as our condition removal is relatively subpar (and really always should be). Yet if one were to slot a condition removal skill into their build such as Elixir C, you would then be sacrificing something more valuable like Elixir S, the Elixir Gun, or the Tool Kit that alternatively keep you alive during direct damage spikes.

I think for the above reasons most would agree that, as it stands, Celestial and Carrion are our best options when it comes to running condition builds. Perhaps Settler at some point may become viable, but right now I haven’t seen reason to take it. If I continue finding Mortar Kit and Elixir Gun useful in P/P condi builds, I just might try it.

In any case, all of these amulets lack a lot of precisely what makes Pinpoint Distribution useful: precision. Settler and Carrion both have baseline precision. And when it’s cut at a 10% rate, we must ask ourselves just how much we benefit from this trait even with Celestial.

Burning scales by 15.5% per stack. Pinpoint Distribution with Celestial, then, would have burn stacks that tick for 25 more damage. For perspective, this means your Blowtorch+IP “burst” would tick for a total of 125 more damage than if you did not take PPD.

Confusion scales by 4% per stack while ticking and 6.25% upon skill activation, or for 6 and 10 more damage respectively.

Bleeding scales by 6% per stack. Pinpoint Distribution with Celestial, then, would have bleed stacks that tick for 9 more damage.

I could go on, but I think you get the point. 156 condition damage is not a significant increase for Celestial builds, and in many respects, is worse than alternative options in the very same tree because of a few conclusions.

1. No Scope grants you 4.75 seconds of fury every 10 seconds you crit. Because Celestial builds also have fairly good power damage you actually increase your damage output significantly more speccing for additional fury than you do going for Pinpoint Distribution. Some may argue you’re already getting fury from Hidden Flask in Alchemy, and this is true. But boon strip does exist and there’s nothing wrong with fitting more fury into your build to maintain better upkeep.

2. Because of the additional fury of No Scope, you actually more consistently sustain bleed stacks against your target through Sharpshooter. At a 33% chance to proc per crit with no internal cooldown, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get at least one bleed stack out of a No Scope proc, which adds, with Celestial+Balthazar, 199 additional damage to your build.

3. Taking more fury over more condition damage also better reliably procs Bunker Down and Incendiary Powder, and pretty much eliminates needing to take a Sigil of Intelligence. Between High Caliber (because I think Chemical Rounds is also not good enough), No Scope, and Hematic Focus, a Celestial build gains 40% critical hit chance on skills within 240 range, meaning Pry Bar, Acid Bomb (with dodge cancel), Flame Blast, and (shotgunning) Grenade Barrage all become stronger and will almost always crit at a 70% rate, allowing you to even further snowball your condition gains elsewhere, like taking Geomancy or Doom.

Overall, I think this was a good trait on paper, but in practical applications fury upkeep is the number one thing keeping Celestial builds still viable for us, and I just don’t see how Rabid or Rampager will get a lot of use out of engineers when Settler and Carrion are much more survivable and—especially in the case of Carrion—output similar condition damage values.

Thanks for reading.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

(edited by Phineas Poe.3018)

Pinpoint Distribution: Not good enough?

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

i agree with you. we seriously need a Condi vit prec amulet. toughness hardly does anything anymore, so rabid is basically a 2 stat amulet.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: Penguin.5197

Penguin.5197

The trait is fine, just not suited for this meta. If the meta changes or a new amulet is given, then itll see more play in that game mode.

Though I miss blood injection, wouldve been more useful right now.

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

it can be strong with rabid amulet . Rabid now with inventions line is quite strong becouse you can have a little of healingpower …. it is really really strong for me . The old rabid p/p nades toolkit , elixir S with mortar is really viable . The only thing i had to learn is to use mortar . it is strong but you have to use it when you are not “inside the fight” … and it is also a great support weapon for your team. (flash shield for example or mortar 2 )

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

with carrion you have more direct damage and more vitality but you are way much more squishy than with rabid. With rabid and shield you arrive at 3k armour, even if i prefer pistol pistol

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Posted by: Peutrifectus.4830

Peutrifectus.4830

You could try something like this. Lots of blocks, some more toughness, more healing power and the blocks inflict burning.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FvdAQJAqelUUh2uYtWwkLw6FL3F14VUiJR4HEQZGYDGhBAA-TJxCwAOOBAAeAAN3fQbZAA

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Posted by: Casia.4281

Casia.4281

so don’t take it in spvp if you think its not worth it?
its 156 cond damage with a celestial ammy. 27.8% increase from your 560. thats pretty big..

ITs value with a rabid or when you consider other sources of cond damage is more of an issue.
rabid ammy is 900 prec, 1200 cond.
so its 190 condition damage into your 1200 thats 15.8%.

25 stacks of might is 750 power/condition damage. Which also puts in into perspective.

that and duration. 40% food is a serious balance issue in pve. and it reflects on spvp as well.
40% food should be removed, and cond damage rebalanced accordingly.

Sigil of bursting is far weaker for conditions then sigil of force or its comparative 10% sigils as well.
Sigil of bursting gives 6% condition damage, but this is ONLY applied to armor, corruption, and runes. So its essentially a flat value.
Balth+celestial? 44.1cond damage. period. doesnt matter if you have pinpoint disc, 25 stacks of might, warrior banner, etc..
Compared to sigil of force 5% which multiplies into all sources of direct damage. A true 5% damage increase.

Which the changes to cond and vul, that is one thing I really want to see atm. Bursting made to actually scale cond damage by 6%.
its 4.9% of that 891 of that celestial/balth/pinpoint.
in pve, you are looking at more like 110 out of 3300 cond damage from buffs, food, etc.
more like 3.3%.

for ref, pinpoint dist is like 198 condition damage in ascended sinister with balth or nightmare runes. An actual 6% of 3300 pve condition damage.

(edited by Casia.4281)

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Posted by: Zelulose.8695

Zelulose.8695

Yes. Buff engineers. Even though I main mesmer, if they don’t buff engineer every other class will have to be nerfed. Buff engineers balance the game.

Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

for spvp i prefer going rabid condi rather than celestial condi. Pistols have very low direct damage so when you take pistols with celestial you have a strong dps loss. Pistols work well with condi so with rabid you don’t feel the loss. Rabid has a strong toughness and with ARM+AED you can survive quite a lot and you can stay more "on point ". In my opinion , for playing condition among rabid , celestial and carrion , rabid is what fit better my playstile . You have also to consider that this game is a capture game , so lasting more on a point is quite important and toughness help a lot with all the damage flying now in this patch. The best setups for me remain celestial rifle (power) or rabid p/p (condi). Celestial condi , for me is not good as the other 2

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

Yes. Buff engineers. Even though I main mesmer, if they don’t buff engineer every other class will have to be nerfed. Buff engineers balance the game.

I think engineer need some fix at some bug … like bomb radius or piercing of pistols … but it does not need a real buff. If they fix what is wrong i think engi now is really strong .

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

so don’t take it in spvp if you think its not worth it?
its 156 cond damage with a celestial ammy. 27.8% increase from your 560. thats pretty big.

It sounds like a lot, but it’s really not, which is why I broke down how much of a damage increase you’re really getting compared to other trait options.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

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Posted by: Adamantium.3682

Adamantium.3682

Thanks to Phineas I came to the conclusion that No Scope was better for my P/P Celestial build especially because it uses bombs. Neither way is going to be build defining but the numbers aren’t even close.

If you are not built to constantly be <240 range I could see why No Scope would not be attractive but otherwise I don’t really see why you wouldn’t take it.

[TNO] Gizmo Gigawatt (Engineer)
Jade Quarry

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Posted by: shion.2084

shion.2084

With Rampager you might do without it since you have 63% crit base, and likely elixir B to spike. You handle condi removal with HGH maybe?

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPku0o5V1-x0;9;4jli;0138156257;4TF3;3H7W3H7W37o

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

Too squishy. If you’re going for spike you might as well build for power.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

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Posted by: shion.2084

shion.2084

Do you have a good power bomb build?

Pinpoint Distribution: Not good enough?

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

Do you have a good power bomb build?

No. I think bombs at this point should be used with Carrion or Rabid—maybe at most Celestial.

I use Rifle, Grenade Kit, Tool Kit, Elixir S, and Mortar Kit when going power with Explosives/Alchemy/Tools. Chaith put up his build a while back. I pretty much run what he does, just with a couple trait changes.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

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Posted by: shion.2084

shion.2084

I just have always disliked Grenades… I’d really like viable options that involved bombs and try as I might it seems the devs really want you to use those grenades if your going explosives. Quite sad about the limited diversity in blowing up builds.

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

After bombs get their radius buffed back up, I imagine it’ll be a good option.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians