Guild Wars 2

Wanted the engineer. Rolled the engineer. Played the engineer.

Bottom line:

Grenades are aggressively superior to other specs in terms of results. Which sucks. I wanted to play a steampunk pistoleer with turrets. Now I’m running a crazy efficient build spamming grenades, tossing res elixers and spamming vigor/swiftness.

Its cool because I’ve been having a good time finally in dungeons, but I wish I had more options.

I think ANet needs to make turrets more viable, give me a reason to use the tool kit and give us a better elite skill besides supply crate.

The DPS of grenades at 80 is just absurdly superior to every other option. It isn’t OP, it just makes us useful in dungeons. So grenades don’t need a nerf – other things need a buff.

I also tried the “naga mouse” spec where you run with all kits. It was a blast and I loved it – but it totally blows for getting things done in a real way with groups and pvp.

All in all, I adore the game and the class – but it definitely needs some work to fulfill it’s potential.

Agree with OP.

The only spec that I thought was comparable in damage was a bomb kit build. It was super fun too. But when I started wvw’ing, the 1500 range on grenades is so useful, that I put aside the bombs. However, I suspect if you’re going pure pve dungeons, you can make the bombs work, assuming you are increasing your survivability in some way.

I believe there are still elixir gun and flamethrower fans out there as well.

I must personally say i agreee with you to. Trough what you dont see is : Whats behind all this.

Because its not your problem only, and its not an engineer only problem, end even more so not only a “granade” problem.
Classes and there skills and weapons are extremely unflexible currently. Trough you have “utility” and “traits” you are getting basically a block caracter Anet designed, and you cant change anything on it.
For example : What if i want to play a sniper tipe of Engineer? Or a Sniper Ranger? Or Thief?
I cant do it any, since Engineer does not have tipical long range setup skills on rifle and you cant change it. Ranger cant use a rifle, and his “long bow” skills are not to “carefully aim” tipe of skills, and the thief is more of a tricster then a Assasin, even trough it should also represent Assasin, since there is none and wont be any.

So to say, we eather lack classes or class costumization options.

In blunt : You cant costumize your gameplay, not even slightest.
This is a real hard and bad issue that many wont realize, but they do come out sooner or later as players get unhappy with classes they are “supposed” to love.

Thats all i want to say abaut this, but i kind of made a whole topic on this, sicne noone reads or comments, i am guessing ppl wont agree with me, trough it will destroy the game sooner or later.

No, compared to other classes Grenades are absurdly OP. The other stuff can be brought up but Grenades need toning down.

Grenade damage can be nerfed when we can easily hit moving targets, whether through auto aim, or lower arch and faster flight time. I wanna see 1 second max before i hit 1500 range, not 3 seconds.

Would be minted if next expansion they gave us alternate weapon skills, so can choose between rifle shotgun or rifle sniper, pistol gadgets or pistol bullets.

Every class would have them, not for hot swapping in combat but changing before it. No reskins needed, no animations needed for most, just new skill set we can choose in the hero panel. Its unlikely though, because it would basicly be like redesigning every weapon.

Levetty.1279:

No, compared to other classes Grenades are absurdly OP. The other stuff can be brought up but Grenades need toning down.

You can’t compare grenades to other skill simply with damage for damage.

For one, all grenades are aimed. There’s no autoattack, and they have travel time. Meaning poor aim, or target changing direction, guarantees a miss. This is not the case with many ranged attacks of other classes. Further, grenades spread in flight. They don’t all land on one spot. Most of the time, only 50% hit.

Toning them down will simply push them past the point where pistols with piercing shot or power rifle builds will become superior, and people will stop using them. Too much hassle and no guarantee of any damage being done PLUS nerfed damage would make the grenade kit obsolete.

Just look at turrets. Crappy damage, destructible, weird target tracking and selection, stationary nature? Almost nobody uses them. Few builds do, but for the most part people just don’t use them. Same thing would happen to grenades if they are nerfed further.

Having said that, I DO believe grenades will be nerfed and soon. Simply because I’m sure ANet’s statistics will show that far too many Engineers use them. This, so far, has been their modus operandi for balancing – find something that works, and nerf it. Instead of fixing all the stuff that doesn’t work.

I agree with the OP.

As far as pure numbers go for dps I have not been able to beat grenade. So it is the go to spec for dps’ing right now.

I do not think it is as fun or interesting as other spec’s but until changes are made it is what it is.

Grenadier sure does a lot of damage in pve, but it’s a whole different story in pvp.

They are pretty good too, but hitting a target in a 1v1 that keep moving around is a challenge.You will miss half of them, so the dps is on par wit the difficulties.

Other kit need some love. Hells even the bomb kit, it does as much damage as my grenade, but I can’t throw them and they delay before exploding.

Tool kit only have 2 viable abilities + the toolbelt.

Flamethrower lack of damage and bugs aren’t viable for pvp. Sure flaming a pvp group is fun, but the autoattack as a very low damage output, and it’s our only viable dps source. (and the aiming is bad, miss miss miss)

Elexir gun isn’t bad, didn’t test it enought to be sure. I used it before lvl 80, didn’t try it again. I has a nice slow, but very low damage output. But since it’s more a support kit, it’s hard to judge.

Turret… oooh turret. I wanted to be a turret engineer, I really wanted. But I just cant do it. They are underpowered in every aspect. The only use I have, is the rocket turret overload that stun. And the rifle turret toolbelt for instant damage. Otherwise, how annoying to see smoene AoE and kill in 1-2 hits all your turret. Or the fight move around and you can’t cast them for 15-45 sec.

DO you guy think Grenade are more powerful in the hand of the few that know how to use them well? I find them hard to use as i often turn myself with my mouse so I lose aim quickly. however I will use them for WWW defense all the time.

Please do not call for nerfs to grenades. I re-rolled engineer from elementalist and have been pleased as punch with the profession. Being a long-time player of spell casters, I was sad to see how ineffectual elementalists are. Engineers are much more fluid and fun to play. Grenades just happen to be more efficient than the weapons or other kits. It is not to knock our other abilities., but grenades work well and are hopefully working as intended. Drunk, fat, and nerfed is no way to go through life son.

Grenades are great for ambushing / skirmishing / hit and runs / attacking stationary blobs and targets.

Against players that know what they are doing however, they will dodge your nades every time and attack you from range.

Grenades are a very high skill cap weapon and only have good DPS when you make good judgements and choose the right moment to strike. What is that great DPS if all it takes is the target to start moving to negate all of it?

Grenades don’t need a nerf, they are one of the only effective weapons we have. Other things need a buff to be brought in line. They don’t need as much DPS though because you have to take into account the fact that not all grenades are going to hit.

Grenades are just flawed due to the face that it IS very hard to hit moving targets. It pretty much has to be this insane damage due to the totally natural miss ratio that even the best grenade user will experience. Problem: it is the by far best skill vs relatively immobile targets (aka pve, dungeons). It is a classic example of a game design flaw.

They DO have to remove this mechanic. I don’t even hate the targeting system but there is no way to solves this problem (beside removing any travel time whatsoever and make the explosions appear instantly what kind of destroys the weapon theme).

TLDR: They have to make the targeting system similiar to under water (atleast for 1 and 2) and thus nerf the damage.

Personally, if they are to nerf the Grenades in any way, they need to lower the range.

The damage and targeting are fine, but how exactly do you explain grenades have more range then pistols? That’s what is really absurd here.

I also totally agree that the other kits / specs need buffs.

• Flamethrower needs more scaling damage in general since it doesn’t benefit from equipped weapons.
• Bomb kit should all have a bigger blast radius (to distinguish them from grenades as “explosives”), and maybe remote triggers (that can’t be activated immediately of course) for better control.
• Turrets – I’m not sure what to do with these, but they could definitely use some improvements. At the very least, they should never attack something the Engineer has not attacked – Better focus fire.

I’ve yet to try the elixirs or gadgets.

The thing is if you nerf grenades range from 1500 you take away our ranged option. I don’t disagree with you but they’d need to give us another ranged option if they were to nerf grenades, and the only way to do that is to add in a new kit / weapon or to scrap and completely redesign a current kit / weapon.

I don’t like the way grenades play, but I use them all the time, because they are our only ranged option for WvW, and a lot of dungeons.

Even if I am not explosives spec’d with grenadier I still use them in those situations because we have nothing else really in the 1200+ range.

Hipshot is not enough, neither is elixir gun, and mortar is far to situational, and even un-traited grenades will do damage that is slightly better than hipshot.

You can do spec’s that are around 900 and those specs work well, but there are to many places that 1200+ is a most, and for those we have grenades.

I can usually carry a team through dungeons with elixirs and pistol/shield. I don’t see big numbers but I got down last and I cure conditions so often that TA and the spider queen in AC are pitifully easy

IMO regarding all this proselytizing for grenades….
Spock: He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two-dimensional thinking.

I don’t think grenades are OP so much as everything else on the engineer is horribly ineffective. I’ve already left this class because of what kitten poor shape it is in, and if Anet nerfs the one functioning build instead of fixing this broken profession, I won’t be coming back any time soon. This class was such a joy to level, and then at 80 you realize that it has the least viable builds of any class, the funnest stuff to use is the least effective, the worst selection of elites in the game (mortar my god, it is useless and just plain horrible), and just suffers from the most horribly implemented design choices of any class (kits don’t scale with weapons, no weapon swapping). I had the bad luck of making my first character to 80 an engineer, and he is benched pretty much indefinately because of the immense amount of work that is needed for engineer to be comparable to other classes in terms of effectiveness, build variety, and fun factor.

The DPS of grenades at 80 is just absurdly superior to every other option. It isn’t OP, it just makes us useful in dungeons. So grenades don’t need a nerf – other things need a buff.

You are one of the few sane people talking about grenades. Those indeed need no nerf (unless you think Engineers should be less able than any other class, and in this case, what are you doign here?)

Yes, you are right, some of our skills can use buffs, turrets in particular. Pistol needs a buff severly, it was overnerfed to hell. And gun could use some love as well, that’s for sure.