Guild Wars 2

I have my engineer at level 80 and it has gotten some “bad nerfs” so I decide to maybe try another class. Before anything, I go look at thieves forums and see about 20 post on how thieves got some nerfs and people crying all over it so I decide to go check the necromancer forums… Well turns out pretty much the same, so I go check the warrior forum to find the same pattern. Please tell me, if every profession forum has people saying how bad the class is now, should Anet create a class called God delete all the other classes and get only 1 skill which insta kills everybody in front of you. My point with this is that reading the forums past the 26th patch, every class is broken and not viable any more. I don’t know what to think any more and the more I go on the forums the more it depresses me and makes me want to play something else…. Are engineers that bad or are they just not played how they are supposed to.

Don’t listen to those people. Just learn to adapt to the changes and make the best out of itb

Honestly, the so called “nerf bat” came around this last patch, and I’m watching the gameplay, looks pretty much the same. I’m still the only one who doesn’t die and running around saving everyone elses butt ^^;

Well the most viable engi build imo “HGH grenades” haven’t been nerfed, so i’m not that sad.

I posted this in the engineer forum cause that’s what I main but what I wanted to actually say is that pretty much any profession forum you go on you see a lot of post about how bad the class is, it sucks in pvp or it sucks really hard in dungeons and pve. It seems like Anet thinks the game is perfect and 90% of this forum thinks the game is broken. Where is the middle line ?

Anet doesnt think the game is perfect, thus why they make large balance changes each patch and add new features. Features which absence was cutting off playstyles for lots of players.

the 10% of people who dont feel this way are fanboys and they’ll chew it up no matter what crap you throw at em.

Daxxter.8920:

Where is the middle line ?

In the game playing

Seriously though, the forums are a cesspool of opinions and misguided info. Not that anyone means wrong, but it’s bound to happen because this is a gathering place for all of us who have more time in front of a web browser than we do for actually playing. It’s hard to weed out the good info from the bad here.

Some other classes forums you’ll see whining on because:
a) they have a LOT more players, and a certain % of players will whine no matter what
b) some of the classes are pretty shocked by experiencing a nerf, it’s a rare and painful sensation for them, engineers being nerfed is just business as usual

I think it just gets to me because I come here with a smile and telling my self each day will bring a ton of new info from players on how to improve playing this wonderful class and all I get instead is you went to level 80 and spent all your time and gold for nothing, go roll a warrior and press 2 on GS from lvl 1 to 80.

Daxxter.8920:

I think it just gets to me because I come here with a smile and telling my self each day will bring a ton of new info from players on how to improve playing this wonderful class and all I get instead is you went to level 80 and spent all your time and gold for nothing, go roll a warrior and press 2 on GS from lvl 1 to 80.

It’s hard to understand why the devs choices regarding engineer are so consistently awful, and their patches are so consistently inept, e.g. kit refinement & the bugs & hidden cooldowns, turret changes & failure to think of turret deployment, smoke bomb changes and failure to think of smoke bomb GM skill, flamethrower changes fail & failure to consider food changes.

Engineer changes will continue to lack vision, focus and relevance until we get a class dev who makes a genuine commitment to learning wtf an engineer is and does.

An engineer is someone who uses whatever he’s got to make the best of the situation. He’s handed lemons and finds a way to make lemonade.

(I had to!)

dinominator.9862:

An engineer is someone who uses whatever he’s got to make the best of the situation. He’s handed lemons and finds a way to make lemonade.

(I had to!)

Noooo….

An Engineer is someone who, upon being handed lemons, makes a weak electrochemical battery.

Or someone who makes a combustible lemon grenade.

A lot more whiners on the forums than in-game. Every update is going to nerf some & buff other skills. Problem is that negativity is always louder & more prevelant than positivity. Why applaud Anet when you can just log in & play right? So banners get buffs and turrets get buffs and yet all you hear is QQ about KR and Quickness and the likes. So learn to adapt, it’s an ever-changing game.

Having said that, I’m guilty of whining on the forums. I can’t abide bugs, especially those that have been around since launch. Don’t understand why when the community creates bug lists the devs don’t address them right away. And Ranger…wow it’s in bad shape. Other than that, all other classes are “fine.” They’re playable and fun. Some better than others.

Forums always represent a small vocal subset of the population that plays the game.

In other words, it is not an accurate assessment of the state of the game. People have their own agendas, and everyone wants their class to be “OP” or “apex predator” or be able to “troll” people in wvw.

Take what you read on the forums with a grain of salt and play something that is fun to you. I love my engineer and find he is quite formidable, but sometimes I want to melee – so I go play my thief. (which btw, didn’t really get nerfed that bad unless you’re a pve pistol thief)

Saying that there are 2 types of people on forums. I do some game design using Playtesters and you see two types of post.

1. People pushing up their class, or in my case faction.
2. People that have actual issues, or places where they think things could be improved.

It’s the job of a designer to split the 80% type 1, from the 20% type 2.

I would say people that moan about no longer having silly spike damage from Grenade KR are type 1. People that are saying that KR is no longer as fun to play because it now feels more trouble than it’s worth, that Multi-kit are now a bit feels a bit light on condition removal, or people discussing how to fill the gaps in their build, IE moving away from Tools and into Alchemy, all probably fit into class 2.

Problem is, they’re addressing the wrong things. Even if turrets could destroy entire cities, they are still useless if you can obliterate them in a couple hits. Especially in dungeons, where enemies have got AOE and such things (and control is severely limited by defiant stacks).
Not to talk about fractals.

Manuhell.2759:

Problem is, they’re addressing the wrong things. Even if turrets could destroy entire cities, they are still useless if you can obliterate them in a couple hits. Especially in dungeons, where enemies have got AOE and such things (and control is severely limited by defiant stacks).
Not to talk about fractals.

Agreed, I feel Cooldown should be based on when you place them not when they are destroyed at least

Pretty much everyone has a “the grass is greener on the other side” approach to class balance on the forums. What I’d really advise you to do is make up your own mind about things and don’t let the forums sway your opinion much.

Also I already see the exaggeration with turrets here. If Turrets one shot everyone they wouldn’t be able to really be killed at all. So simply saying they suck because they have low health and that it doesn’t matter how much damage is increased is a silly line of thought. The argument that their survival is weak and that is what should be improved is a fantastic argument and one I support, but there is always a point where increasing the damage would negate the survival weaknesses of a turret. Make the argument that their survival should be increased and why that should be so instead of just making an example that can be easily defeated.

Uh, that was clearly an hyperbole, though.

Kalan.9705:

Engineer changes will continue to lack vision, focus and relevance until we get a class dev who makes a genuine commitment to learning wtf an engineer is and does.

I vote for Chaith. >.>

I started out with an idea for a build when I lvl’d up and I ended up adjusting it after every patch day so far.
I never had to drastically change anything, just adjust and adapting your playstyle a little.
We got some cool new toys to play with this patch.

I’m sure you engi has a setup running that you find fun to play.
Stick with that build but start experimenting by mixing it up with other elements, that may or may not have been nerfed/buffed.
In the end, you’ll end up playing a better version of your previous build.

In terms of other classes, every single one is fairly decently balanced.
Some might argue that mesmers are OP, but then again, some say warriors are superior. And they will all complain about their own class shortcomings on the forums.
Now, what’s the best class for you? That’s a choice only you can make.

Manuhell.2759:

Uh, that was clearly an hyperbole, though.

Sometimes it’s hard to see that in the forums via text medium of communication. It’s also shrouded and obfuscated by all the pessimism on the Engineer forums. If I misunderstood you, I really do apologize.

Everyone is biased, but I do think we can say engineers have been nerfed more than any other profession. The juggernaut nerf at launch, repeated grenade nerfs, the recent removal of the 100nades build (the only build that Anet has purposefully removed from the game), etc.

However, thieves have been nerfed hard as well. The recent 1-second revealed nerf is tiny compared to nerfs to offhand dagger, perma-daze builds, and signet nerf. Warriors haven’t really been nerfed much but were already really, really bad at tournaments before this patch, and with the quickness nerf they’re practically gone. Necros haven’t been nerfed much but have also never been a really, really strong profession in any area of the game.

It’s really subjective though. What qualifies as more? Quality? Quantity? If you go to other class forums they will pretty much all be saying the same thing. “(Our Class) has been nerfed more then any other profession. It’s unfair. We don’t get any dev attention.”)

Really go read through them. It’s enlightening.

The engineer is fine. Slightly pigeonholed into P/P condition builds due to the fixes on the Giver weapons, but remains fine whatever you do because we have solid gadgets and elixirs.

@OP – IMO Engineers are just as strong as ever. And even stronger in many ways.

If are looking for a profession that is hot right now, I think what WvW really needs right now is more Mesmers. I think Arena Nets long term goal is at some point everything you will ever do in WvW will involve a Mesmer either with you or against you..

All classes have bugs and useless traits/utilities/weapon skills. All classes get nerfs at one time or another. What matters is the state of the class overall.

Mesmers, Eles and Guardians are the top of the GW2 class tree. They have builds that are reliably powerful and useful in PvP, WvW and PvE. What’s more, they feel like finished classes, with traits/trait lines/weapon skills/utilities that synergise well and still have a little room for personalisation.

Next down the tree seems to be Thieves. They have some very powerful burst damage builds and for a while their were considered OP killers. Their 100% stealth build has been considered hard to play against (possibly because it’s so frustrating to fight). Their peak effects have been nerfed a bit, (which explains the complaints on their forum) but they are still a powerful class. They still further balancing but otherwise seem reasonably finished.

Warrior and Ranger have a mixed reputation. They each have their strengths (Warrior are considered the top dps in PvE; Bow Rangers and their pets can be effective in WvW), but are considered weaker in PvP. These classes are reasonably well put together, but Warrior in particular seems to be suffering from balance problems, and the differences in their performance across PvP, WvW and PvE seems to be impacting perception of these classes.

The bottom of the tree seems to be occupied by Engs and Necros. Eng’s are fun to play and can be very effective in PvP and WvW roaming, but require high skill levels and mastery a very complex class to achieve that (until you achieve that, Engs are often considered easy kills). Engs are generally weaker in PvE, although recent buffs to Flamethrower have improved their lot there, and as a result there seem to be more Engs in PvE atm. Engs suffer from the law of unintended consequences, with nerfs in patchs often affecting builds that didn’t warrant nerfing – expect to have to respec and/or regear after each patch (only Pistol/elixir builds seem to be exempt from that this year). Engs have more build options than any other class, and while all but a couple are marginal at best, it is possible to get surprising results out of an unconventional build if you have enough skill.

Necros are probably worse off all classes. They are considered average performers at best, and don’t seem to have the potential to reward expert play the way the Eng does.

Another factor is how the ANet seems to treats each class. Mesmer, Ele, Guardian and Thief seem to be the darling classes. They get nerfs occassionally, but they seem just as likely to get buffs as well. Warrior, Necro and Ranger have been relatively neglected for a while; when they do get attention it seems to be with some understanding of how people play the class. Engs have received extra attention in the last two patches, however, aside from Pistol/Elixir builds, ANet have shown little understanding of how people play this class at higher levels.

Daxxter.8920:

I have my engineer at level 80 and it has gotten some “bad nerfs” […] My point with this is that reading the forums past the 26th patch, every class is broken and not viable any more. I don’t know what to think any more and the more I go on the forums the more it depresses me and makes me want to play something else…. Are engineers that bad or are they just not played how they are supposed to.

Well, my complaint is not that the eng is no longer viable across the board. Certainly there are builds that still work. Some peoples’ builds were not affected at all by the patch, of course, and they aren’t complaining. But I had tried several builds people have been raving about since launch and didn’t like any of them (i still don’t understand the love for grenades). I found one build that i liked, that made sense to me, that did what i wanted it to do and made the game seem worth while. With the patch, my build is gone. All of the people saying “learn to adjust, just play something different” are right in many regards. The fact that I can’t find another build that is intuitive and fun for me to play is maybe my own problem, not the fault of the game. But it doesn’t change the fact that my build becoming non-viable means I may have to find not just another build or another class, but another game altogether. That is the part that’s disappointing to me. With all that GW2 has going for it (it’s gorgeous!), I have found it lacking in many ways from the start. I felt “at home” with my engineer build, but now it’s gone. So it’s going to take me a while to see if I can find something else about the game that feels like home, and in the meantime I’m going to pout about the changes. That’s the plan. haha.

Daxxter.8920:

I think it just gets to me because I come here with a smile and telling my self each day will bring a ton of new info from players on how to improve playing this wonderful class and all I get instead is you went to level 80 and spent all your time and gold for nothing, go roll a warrior and press 2 on GS from lvl 1 to 80.

The forums complain (usually) about aspects of their profession being broken. Not the whole thing.

Engineer is fine in playability—overall.

The problem is the last patch removed many builds from existence. It didn’t nerf them, it deleted them. Key abilities that were used no longer exist. So anyone using those is highly highly upset, especially since Engineers are not an OP class. Why did a nerf happen when the ability was fine as is?

The necromancers have issues too. They have really strong areas, and completely useless ones. So they focus on what they lack, wanting it to be just as viable as the rest.

Warriors are PvE heavy, and PvP light. Strong in one, and not in the other.

People want balance, and they want it quick.

Thieves just complain to complain. lol. But also, because they do have some limitations. They have low damage on a few weapons, making them kinda worthless. But complaints about stealth nerfs are just whiny. It just means relearning the timing of skills, to delay 1 more sec. It is a profession that attracts those that want cheap kills, so they are upset if they can’t get them as easily. Along with normal players complaining about real balance issues.

It is what it is.

Quae.5431:

Daxxter.8920:

I have my engineer at level 80 and it has gotten some “bad nerfs” […] My point with this is that reading the forums past the 26th patch, every class is broken and not viable any more. I don’t know what to think any more and the more I go on the forums the more it depresses me and makes me want to play something else…. Are engineers that bad or are they just not played how they are supposed to.

Well, my complaint is not that the eng is no longer viable across the board. Certainly there are builds that still work. Some peoples’ builds were not affected at all by the patch, of course, and they aren’t complaining. But I had tried several builds people have been raving about since launch and didn’t like any of them (i still don’t understand the love for grenades). I found one build that i liked, that made sense to me, that did what i wanted it to do and made the game seem worth while. With the patch, my build is gone. All of the people saying “learn to adjust, just play something different” are right in many regards. The fact that I can’t find another build that is intuitive and fun for me to play is maybe my own problem, not the fault of the game. But it doesn’t change the fact that my build becoming non-viable means I may have to find not just another build or another class, but another game altogether. That is the part that’s disappointing to me. With all that GW2 has going for it (it’s gorgeous!), I have found it lacking in many ways from the start. I felt “at home” with my engineer build, but now it’s gone. So it’s going to take me a while to see if I can find something else about the game that feels like home, and in the meantime I’m going to pout about the changes. That’s the plan. haha.

When you have a build that is perfect for your playstyle, and it is nerfed, you just keep using it.

When you have a build that is perfect for your playstyle, and it is deleted, you complain on the forums.

Anet deleted Engineers’ builds from existence. It isn’t fun to be forced to play something you don’t want to play. It isn’t a player problem, but a design problem. The option was there, and is now gone.

So it is valid to be upset and not passive about it.

With my build, I can use the same kits, the same rotations, and just lost some key effects. But it doesn’t feel the same. I ran with only 10 points in Tools for Speedy Kits, but often swapped it out for Kit Refinement for key encounters. I now have zero reason to do that again, and now just have Speedy Kits…. I don’t need swiftness in those encounters, but there is no other option I want.

So I’m upset. I can do the same stuff mostly, but it isn’t the same.

I totally understand you point, OP. I myself started the game with an Engineer. After reading all the comments in the forum, I thought that maybe I was indeed a miserable class, but didn’t notice it because I had only played and Engineer and thought that things were just supposed to be like that. Then I decided to roll a Necromancer. Went to the forums and surprise, everyone there says Necromancers are pretty terrible, impossible to use well and so on and so forth. Then I started leveling a Ranger just to look at the forum there and read all the posts in the first page talking about how Ranger is the worst class and how it’s ruined forever and every Ranger is rerolling.

I mean, really. After I got my Necromancer to lvl 80 and equipped him fully with Exotics and Ascended items, I can do as well as anyone in dungeons (which is pretty much all that I do in the endgame), or maybe even better than most. I managed to kick some kitten in WvW even at level 60 against fully geared 80s, and I just have a lot of fun. With my engineer I can do pretty well in Dungeons, and even though I have a rotation that is sometimes intense on my fingers and require much more attention to not get downed than I do in my Necromancer, I blame my Equipment stats.

What I mean is: play whatever you identify the most with. As long as you feel you are doing well, everything is ok. If you ever feel handicaped, then maybe it’s time to rethink your class choices. Some classes have a different learning curve and a different playstyle, and some people don’t adapt that well to them. Not saying this is always the case, but I’m sure it influences a lot many of the posts we see around here. Sometimes people just don’t adapt and then assume the issue is with the class. I for one know I’m a terribly lame Thief. Don’t run a Warrior and spam GS #2 forever if you don’t feel like it. The whole goal of the game is to be fun and entertaining. If you are doing what you want to do with the class you want to do, there’s nothing to worry about.

I have now started to level a Guardian, one of the classes usually mentioned as extremely good at support and really versatile. So let’s see how that plays out, but I can guarantee I’m not going to leave my Engineer nor my Necromancer in the backburner.