Guild Wars 2

THIS IS ABOUT PVE. STOP TALKING ABOUT WVW OR PVP.

Specifically, please nerf grenades. They are ruining the class’s skill diversity because they are literally the only weapon worth using and pretty much all the traits are balanced around them. Bombs, rifles, flamethrowers, etc. are all useless because the traits supporting them are super weak because they have to be, or they end up becoming super OP when used with grenades.

The inconsistency in grenade damage output relative to the other kits is also troubling from a design perspective because it’s the only engineer weapon that functions as a mainhand weapon. Pretty much every other weapon has a weak auto-attack with multiple spammable cooldowns (i.e. rifle with 3 burst damage skills, bomb kit with 3 pulsing utility AOEs) which encourages rapid swapping to take advantage of them. That is generally balanced as a concept because it means engineers in general can have access to lots of powerful cooldown skills without actually becoming broken, except for the fact that they do have a strong auto-attack in the Grenade Kit, so now they have a strong auto AND loads of cooldowns. No other class has that and so Anet opted to balance by weakening the kit cooldowns, which again makes Grenade Kit even more dominant.

A nerf to grenades (many different ways to do that) would enable:

1) Buffs to traits and skills across the board, i.e. Steel-Packed Powder, Sharpshooter, Precise Sights, etc. to be useful more generally and not just for grenades.
2) Buffs to engineer skills generally, because without an OP auto on grenades, engineer having strong cooldowns (or individual weapon autos) won’t break the class balance.

The third option of course would be to implement traits that buff the other weapon autos along the same lines as Grenadier, so that they are equally viable but won’t enable on-demand swapping between multiple OP autos (which would just be silly) since viability would be tied to a large trait investment. Modified Ammo was a good step in this direction (before they made it just another lolgrenade buff) but the boost given was too small. Since most other engineer weapons are very weak at base, something along the lines of Grenadier’s +50% buff actually isn’t that extreme.

Either way I want to actually be able to play my engineer without feeling like a scrub playing the easiest and most OP profession.

Haha, the other day someone was asking about my sPvP build after we had good fights. When he found out it didn’t have grenades he was disappointed; was looking for a grenade build. :p

yeah… not all builds use grenade kit believe it or not. i actually rarely use grenades in my builds since you have to invest a full 30 trait points to make them up to par with other weapons/kits. otherwise they are just underpowered.

I don’t want to come off sounding like a kitten… But that was entirely TL;DR after the first 3 lines.

Not everyone uses grenades and even if everyone did it wouldn’t mean they were OP. They’re just one of our most versatile kits and not locked into a certain fighting range for max dmg.

Also I personally laugh at grenades fear me and my SD!!!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Specifically, please nerf grenades. They are ruining the class’s skill diversity because they are literally the only weapon worth using and pretty much all the traits are balanced around them. Bombs, rifles, flamethrowers, etc. are all useless because the traits supporting them are super weak because they have to be, or they end up becoming super OP when used with grenades.

Give me an effing break. The flamethrower may not be the maximum dps setup, but it has a ton of utility in both World vs. World and structured PvP. And it still comes in handy during things like Dredge Fractal and Shoggroth (Arah path 1) where you need to just face tank something, which is not something you can do with the grenade kit.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Pretty much every other weapon has a weak auto-attack with multiple spammable cooldowns (i.e. rifle with 3 burst damage skills, bomb kit with 3 pulsing utility AOEs)

The bomb kit has a better scaling auto attack than the grenade kit does, so I’m not sure how what you’re saying here makes sense either.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Modified Ammo was a good step in this direction (before they made it just another lolgrenade buff) but the boost given was too small.

Modified Ammo was a buff for every kit in this game, including the bomb kit that applies bleeding (Sharpshooter), vulnerability, burning, confusion, blind, crippled, and immobilized—most of which can be maintained integrating the rifle with Sitting Duck in your build.

Don’t nerf what’s strong and call it ‘encouraging diversity.’ Buff what isn’t to match it.

In other words: Don’t make everything equally bad, as the original post seems to feel, make everything equally good.

Anymras.5729:

Don’t nerf what’s strong and call it ‘encouraging diversity.’ Buff what isn’t to match it.

In other words: Don’t make everything equally bad, as the original post seems to feel, make everything equally good.

Exactly… Take pointers from how hard the hit eles… Don’t do it again. Plus nades are no where near OP in any form so l2p and try different builds.

Top 150 solo queue spvp from bomb/tools/elixir gun wonders what you are talking about

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Either way I want to actually be able to play my engineer without feeling like a scrub playing the easiest and most OP profession.

this right here makes me think this guy is 100% just trolling

Don’t nerf the Engineer’s only good ranged option ~_~

Bombs. Static Discharge. Grenades. Pick 1-2. Welcome to engineer damage.

ukuni.8745:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Either way I want to actually be able to play my engineer without feeling like a scrub playing the easiest and most OP profession.

this right here makes me think this guy is 100% just trolling

Agreed, grenades are way the best and only skill worth using, but there is no fun in it. Other eng skills are so pathetic that it would be a joke to nerf grenades.

That’s why you nerf the grenades first, then buff other things. Otherwise buffing other aspects of the engineer just results in engineers still using grenades and just swapping to the other skills whenever needed, because engies have no cooldowns on their swaps.

I should also mention I’m talking about PvE, not lolPvP. Was late at night, my fault.

The grenade kit gets more mileage than the flamethrower, elixir gun, and tool kit in PvE but that doesn’t mean that anything needs to change.

If the flamethrower did equal damage to the grenade kit, it would be overpowered since it provides 200 passive toughness and self-stacks might doing nothing but wielding it. By design it cannot be equal to the grenade kit in this regard. The same goes for the tool kit, which has the best block skill in the game.

These skills still hold a purpose in PvE. You cannot perma burn Shoggroth with the grenade kit in Arah. You can’t tank a button in Dredge Fractal with the grenade kit. The grenade kit doesn’t give you stealth for skipping content, nor does it grant might for your entire party. It does not cleanse conditions for your allies.

Every kit serves a purpose. The grenade kit’s purpose is damage. It only makes sense that it outperforms most of them in this manner, at least all but the bomb kit. Because if it didn’t, why would you use it?

In PvP there’s more to just dealing damage, and in PvE there’s situations where the grenade kit is hardly the optimal slot choice. Please do not pretend that the grenade kit is the be-all, end-all weapon for engineers. Clearly you’ve put that to mind in this thread, but most responses in this thread better present the reality of the situation.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

That’s why you nerf the grenades first, then buff other things. Otherwise buffing other aspects of the engineer just results in engineers still using grenades and just swapping to the other skills whenever needed, because engies have no cooldowns on their swaps.

I should also mention I’m talking about PvE, not lolPvP. Was late at night, my fault.

That’s even more confusing. Are we talking like solo open world playing, dugeons, fractals? Engineer’s optimal dps speedclearing build should use the bomb auto nearly all the time I believe.

I have absolutely no idea what kind of build variety exists in 60+ fractals, but if you’re talking about that, you really need to specify that you’re talking about that. If you’re not, I don’t think you have much of an argument. Every profession has one optimal dps build—it’s just not possible to have two optimal dps builds. For engineers, it’s not even grenades. I’m really unsure what part of the game you’re interested in.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Every profession has one optimal dps build—it’s just not possible to have two optimal dps builds.

Precisely.

And there’s more to this game than just DPS. A guardian doesn’t wield his mace or hammer for maximum DPS. They wield them for their defensive/utilitarian abilities. I think expecting the flamethrower and tool kit to be on par with the grenade kit in damage is delusional, and something I have never asked for or expected.

If you want to maximize your damage as an engineer, you structure a build around the grenade kit or bomb kit just as you would structure your warrior around the axe and greatsword. Sensibly speaking not every kit we have can be DPS-oriented.

Yes but FT is still useless. They should give back the old juggernaut with perma stability while in FT. Else they can’t bring any sence behind this Kit.

Forestnator.6298:

Yes but FT is still useless. They should give back the old juggernaut with perma stability while in FT. Else they can’t bring any sence behind this Kit.

Yeah, that would definitely be nice to have.

I still think that the 200 toughness, the instant-cast knockback, and the AoE blind that can be activated while stunned still makes the flamethrower the best “face-tank” weapon we have. When running Dredge Fractal I usually put it on with the tool kit and Elixir S when you have to stand on the plates.

We’re actually one of the best at it, since we have such powerful defensive skills between the flamethrower and tool kit.

Phineas Poe.3018:

If the flamethrower did equal damage to the grenade kit, it would be overpowered since it provides 200 passive toughness and self-stacks might doing nothing but wielding it. By design it cannot be equal to the grenade kit in this regard.

You got to be kidding. Ft stacks might by using it, Grenades stack vuln by using it. Ft gives some toughness, grenades enable you to use 1.5k range. Theyre practically identical in numbers of offensive and defensive feats, just a different approach on it where grenades are better in PvE.

Even if ft stacked 25 might and vuln on its own grenades could still be balanced to be better through the skills.

I’ve got to agree, personally because of Build diversity, but if ANet are going to ‘nerf’ the ‘Nader kits in terms of Traits, they should at least listen to what we can recommend via complimenting the Standard Weapons (pistol, rifle, shield) and maybe even Turrets as they’re buggy-that’s what I’d ask for in replacement for all the Grenade-Boosting Traits.

Let’s get fact straight.

I have played, not level crafted, all 8 professions to level 80 and done WvWvW with them. Engineer is the most difficult profession to master well. Try solo roaming with power rifle engineer using grenade kit and you will know.

If you want easy profession try comparing engineer with the heavy armor professions, like guardian and warrior. Guardian has tons of passive things going on (health regeneration, aegis, burning, condition removal etc) which do NOT require any interaction from the player. Warrior has always been the king of pve and now arguably very strong in spvp and the strongest profession in WvWvW as well. If you argue that engineer has higher dps than an axe/mace + greatsword warrior, then please proof that using videos or show us the build.

Bomb kit autoattack hits stronger than grenade kit auto attack. In fact the grenade kit auto attack is really weak auto attack considering it is just 120 radius (bomb kit #1 is 180 radius). If you want to compare the dps you really need to take in account the actual attack rate, which is always lower than the listed number (1/2 activation time). Even when traited with grenadier grandmaster trait bomb kit #1 is 25% stronger, larger radius = huge difference.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bomb
Just look at the damage multipliers and do the math. Bomb kit wins.

I don’t have much experience in spvp / tpvp, but I know WvWvW. Power engineers and rifle engineers in general seem to be rare as hen’s teeth. About 90% of the enemy engineers are running condition based builds and using either pistol/pistol or pistol/shield. Grenade kit #1 isn’t viable option for them as it would do so little damage in a condition build and just be semi-viable in a hybrid power + condi build (e.g. celestial gear) as you need to be in very close range to make all those grenades hit.

Bomb kit seems to be as common as the grenade kit. Flamethrower and elixir gun are also often used kits. Healing turret seems to be the most popular healing skill. Since they are also so often used, do you plan to nerf them as well?

I agree on one thing with the OP: condition spam semi-bunker / full bunker builds are a bit too strong at the moment. Most builds cannot squeeze in enough condition removal, conditions ignore the armor and the attacker needs to invest only in one stat (condition) instead of three stats (power, precision, critical damage). To fix this Arenanet could consider an overall nerf to some of the most problematic conditions e.g. shave off some dps from burning (the most damaging condition) and make poison last a shorter time. Or make it so that each dodge roll removes one condition. This would affect all professions.

If you want to change grenade kit somehow, then make it more into a smart control kit, instead of just spamming all the grenade skills on cool down:
flash grenade would do only blind, no damage (pure control)
reduce damage of freeze and poison grenade, BUT at the same time slightly increase the damage of grenade kit auto attack (#1) to keep it on par with the bomb kit.

grenades and bombs are the only offensive kits so obviously those are going to be the kits that deal the most damage.

I run a power build in WvW. The reason probably rifle engineer is rare there is due to the fact that pistol/shield is the best weapon set for group synergy. It is what I use.

I agree to what has been said, to get the most out of granades you will be stuck on 30 power traitline. Otherwise Granades are not that good. Bombs are very powerfull too. And i seen dozen engies being really strong with elixer gun too. Next to that Granades are not easy to use, like thiefs heartseeker spams… We actually need to keep spamming while aiming, and they are rather easy to dodge/see comming…
They are stong, this is true. But other classes have tons of strong skills like those as well so.. And they are even easier to handle.

this topic keeps getting off course into how grenades are easy to see coming or to dodge, while OP mentioned he was talking about pve. Yes grenades are strong but they aren’t as strong as in their auto attack as bombs are that’s why for pve if you are going for maximum dps you use grenade skill #2, #4, and grenade barrage on cooldown (#5 if its a boss that heals or regenerates), BoB and firebomb as well as any other blast finishers to stack might, while using bomb #1 auto attack when not doing one of these other things.

On a side note I also play power engi in wvw with P/S

For the past several months I’ve been playing PvE exclusively. Under certain conditions I actually agree with the OP but I do not agree with nerfing.

When going into dungeons with a party that knows the path very well (public or not), performs well, and its members are looking to clear with the fastest possible speed, the only measure of worth/success is DPS. In this limited-scope area of play, but probably comprises perhaps 80% of all dungeon LFGs, very little matters outside of DPS.

In this regard, the grenade kit by far offers the most value because many of engineer’s offensive traits proc with crit or attack especially vulnerability stacks (highly valued) and bleeds, and the grenades throw out 3 attacks. Moreover, skill 2, 4 and toolbelt are all bursts that can be used freely and quickly.

With the bomb kit, the effectiveness of these traits is reduced by two-thirds. None of the skills 2-5 offer any burst and the toolbelt bomb is undesirable in far too many situations mainly because of the popularity of melee stacking and the bomb would push the mobs away from the stack. No other kits come close.

Even so, I do not agree with nerfing grenades, because the situation is similar with other classes. A warrior only outputs his best damage with the axe combination (and its relevant traits) and the performance drops considerably when using other weapons/traits. A mesmer would almost always trait celerity/blades with small variation in domination/duelist allocation. And so on.

Most importantly, if grenades is nerfed, the engineer would lose its de-facto last and only on-par weapon in pve dungeon speed runs. We have other kits that do just fine, true, but not if you want a dps that is not embarrassing when compared to warrior axe. Heck, even as it is, the pve public dungeon-goers at large do not believe that grenades are on par and generally regard engineers as a burden to be carried.

Finally, before you ask for any engineer nerf for PvE, try making a party of three engineers and then put yourself on the LFG specifying speed run (or perhaps fotm 49). See how long it takes for you to get two more.

Not quite sure what’s going on here. Has anything changed since the claim of Engi 9K max DPS compared with Elementalists 16K? Why would you ask for a nerf?

If anything I would expect a ‘Buff Engineer’ request.

Depending on group makeup Grenades brings so much to the table that it is hard not to run it and DPS wise is one of our top options. Modified Ammo was a great step towards helping Engi but Grenades gets the most benefit which just makes it even harder to run something different. Bombs scale quite well and are a good option if others in the group are supplying Vulnerability.

We need a buff to everything else before a nerf to Grenades.

Blood~

Honestly OP, did you get frustrated losing to a grenade build
or does everything that is actually efficient in the game need a nerf?

I don’t know a single legit post where someone begs to get
their own class nerfed.

Deniara Devious.3948:

If you argue that engineer has higher dps than an axe/mace + greatsword warrior, then please proof that using videos or show us the build.

this isnt mine and i dont run this build, but i can tell you that nothing beats this for sheer dps in WvW ive got a mate who runs this and he literally 1 shots anything even vets, is it more viable then a axe/mace + greatsword warrior, probly not since it lacks the great defensive options a warrior has but for sheer damage it hits harder

ukuni.8745:

Deniara Devious.3948:

If you argue that engineer has higher dps than an axe/mace + greatsword warrior, then please proof that using videos or show us the build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KPSp0_NlFk

this isnt mine and i dont run this build, but i can tell you that nothing beats this for sheer dps in WvW ive got a mate who runs this and he literally 1 shots anything even vets, is it more viable then a axe/mace + greatsword warrior, probly not since it lacks the great defensive options a warrior has but for sheer damage it hits harder

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

lemme level with you every class has an instant killing option or more as glass cannon

what sets them apart and makes some unbalanced is their survivability like thief and mesmer survivavility they all share something in common one slip and they die

incoming mine nerf ? since its been used as 100nades was in the past lol

ukuni.8745:

Deniara Devious.3948:

If you argue that engineer has higher dps than an axe/mace + greatsword warrior, then please proof that using videos or show us the build.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KPSp0_NlFk

this isnt mine and i dont run this build, but i can tell you that nothing beats this for sheer dps in WvW ive got a mate who runs this and he literally 1 shots anything even vets, is it more viable then a axe/mace + greatsword warrior, probly not since it lacks the great defensive options a warrior has but for sheer damage it hits harder

That is Static Discharge (SD) build. It has amazing burst and good dps, but I am having a hunch that axe/mace + greatsword pure dps build has better long term dps than SD (I should someday measure it, not just guess). Note that warrior’s kill shot can also one shot things with full bloodlust + ascended zerker gear it does around 20k crits against medium armor. Combine that with crack shot (now just 10 point trait) = epic fun against enemy zergs.

SD builds seem to be very rare in WvWvW. In all of my hundreds of WvWvW roaming hours I have run into just one SD engineer. He hit me and my allies hard like a brick, but his armor was also made out of paper. You kill fast, you die fast.

This applies to all professions. You want maximum burst and damage, your health and armor is going to be low (warrior has advantage here). Usually only main hand dagger thieves, shatter burst mesmers and non-roaming staff elementalists pure berserker set. Massive damage and burst, but dies fast. I would argue that all those 3 builds are better in WvWvW setting than SD, because elementalist can have mist/vapor form and staff eles are a vital part of the zerg, mesmers and thieves have teleport and stealth to get out of combats which go awry.

I am not an expert in spvp/tpvp, but I would guess that SD engineer would do okay in hot join / solo queue, but I am pretty sure that in top tournament level condition engineers > power engineers. Based on the current meta and recent balance changes I would guess engineer is good middle class in spvp, not bad, but in the super tier either.

Mind you that one exception doesn’t break the rule, it just wrecks the budget. ;-)

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

For roaming, a GCSD build is very good for smashing the odd one or two solo guys running to meet their buds. It is great for soloing supply camps and dolyaks. When it can be so effective at those task that it is designed to do, I don’t see a problem with it.

But we are getting off topic here. I know a great many engineers who often do not care to use grenades and they thrive, as I do. The simple fact that you are required to put a 30 point investment in them to achieve the level of strength that makes the OP inaccurately claim they need a nerf, supports the fact that do not need change. Logically if a player makes that kind of trait investment into a kit, then the kit should certainly feel stronger then the others to them. Both, because of the traits supporting the kit, as well as the traits not applied to the other aspects of a build.

engis is about only class in pvp that makes me want to quit this game, tanky aoe spam with full bar of conditions and dazes.. yeah, gl fighting that unless you are necro

Okay every few months of coming back to the forums waiting to see what they’ve improved (if anything) I find it funny that I see this type of nonsense just about as much as I find the nonsense about stealth on Thieves, seriously you can stop posting this now.

There’s nothing wrong with engineers cept they were a little weak (especially in PVE hopefully they’ve improved that now and will continue to improve them to bring the profession out of the beta stage) but they don’t need anymore nerfs in fact if they haven’t already they need to go back and check the nerfs they’ve done in the past to make sure the numbers are closer to the class favorite, Warrior.

tigirius.9014:

Okay every few months of coming back to the forums waiting to see what they’ve improved (if anything) I find it funny that I see this type of nonsense just about as much as I find the nonsense about stealth on Thieves, seriously you can stop posting this now.

There’s nothing wrong with engineers cept they were a little weak (especially in PVE hopefully they’ve improved that now and will continue to improve them to bring the profession out of the beta stage) but they don’t need anymore nerfs in fact if they haven’t already they need to go back and check the nerfs they’ve done in the past to make sure the numbers are closer to the class favorite, Warrior.

engy got nerf cause no bug fixed on turrets
perma vigor on kit got nerfed
no cond remover or just on elixir and HT
SD got incendiary powder nerfed
HgH nade high dmg but low def
what can we run next time if they nerf engy???

Dredd Spirit Caller.4082:

perma vigor on kit got nerfed
SD got incendiary powder nerfed
HgH nade high dmg but low def
what can we run next time if they nerf engy???

The kit refinement as a whole got nerfed and hurt in many different ways. We lost damage with nades for example. Lost Box of Nails when swapping to the tool kit, harming a handy free set of bleeds and a cripple for CC or getaways. We lost one condition removal from swapping to FT and one from just swapping to EG. Not to mention some of the things you listed.

All this talk just keeps making me thing of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

GK, where are you ranking Grenade Engi’s now? IIRC they were coming in last on your DPS spread sheet. Have they jumped up a bunch or what?

coglin.1867:

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

For roaming, a GCSD build is very good for smashing the odd one or two solo guys running to meet their buds. It is great for soloing supply camps and dolyaks. When it can be so effective at those task that it is designed to do, I don’t see a problem with it.

But we are getting off topic here. I know a great many engineers who often do not care to use grenades and they thrive, as I do. The simple fact that you are required to put a 30 point investment in them to achieve the level of strength that makes the OP inaccurately claim they need a nerf, supports the fact that do not need change. Logically if a player makes that kind of trait investment into a kit, then the kit should certainly feel stronger then the others to them. Both, because of the traits supporting the kit, as well as the traits not applied to the other aspects of a build.

precisely why i said what i said OP bashed the whole engineer class for its grenades claiming it needed to be nerfed when grenades even traited are a joke next to SD builds grenades are only useful in wvw from shooting from or at towers

NOTE: I’m speaking from an sPvP point of view here.

Personally, I think that bombs and grenades should be nerfed and made less spammy (let’s be honest, they’re turning the class into the most spammy class in the game), and that Incendiary Powder should be nerfed as well. Magnet and Gear Shield should both be nerfed by reducing Magnet’s range from somewhere from 600 to 900 and Gear Shield should be reduced to a 2s duration. Healing Turret could use a slight nerf. In return, I think buffs to the Inventions line should be made so that turret builds become more viable. I’d also like to see some of the unused utilities buffed (specifically Battering Ram and Throw Mine, along with the turret utilities, though only slightly).

In buffing turrets, I think that to avoid what has recently become a problem of over-reliance on AI, the turrets should become more reliant on player input in order to be effective- for example, you could move/turn turrets by hotkeying controls that allow you to independently control and switch between turrets in order to improve their positioning and overall effectiveness (though this change might be too complex to ever occur).

That’s what I can think of off the top of my head.

I think the only thing I’d change about Grenades would be to increase the maximum spread radius, substantially.

Basically, maybe even add +1 grenade (nerfing the necessity of the Grenadier skill indirectly), but double the radius they land in. Or even 2,5. This means a very large area is targeted, and it’s unplannable whether any specific target will be hit by every grenade.

In turn, I’d balance the power.

Basically, Grenade would take a more randomized balance compared to Bomb. Bombs are PBAE, powerful, reliable. Grenades are even more powerful, huge range, but absolutely unreliable in wanting to hit 1 specific target, yet of amazing power if just saturating an enemy group is all you want.

coglin.1867:

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

He already defended himself, but I can’t help but still write what I thought when I’ve read this post:

Read the OP again, then look at the video which is meant to prove OP’s point, and then read Rezzet’s post.

What Rezzet was lol-ing about wasn’t a build without grenades. It was about the fact that a video of an SD-build was posted to prove that Engineers are overpowered because of grenades.

Saturn.6591:

coglin.1867:

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

He already defended himself, but I can’t help but still write what I thought when I’ve read this post:

Read the OP again, then look at the video which is meant to prove OP’s point, and then read Rezzet’s post.

What Rezzet was lol-ing about wasn’t a build without grenades. It was about the fact that a video of an SD-build was posted to prove that Engineers are overpowered because of grenades.

Someone gets it Thank You ! lol

coglin.1867:

For roaming, a GCSD build is very good for smashing the odd one or two solo guys running to meet their buds. It is great for soloing supply camps and dolyaks. When it can be so effective at those task that it is designed to do, I don’t see a problem with it.

As always, players have an odd obsession with 1v1 combat (or balance), a PvP mode which is not supported (or promoted) in GW2.

1v1s are a large part of pvp. being good at 1v1 will help you immensely in both tournies and hot joins.
grenade kit is one of two offensive kits we have. nerfing it does the opposite of “promoting build diversity”
i thought this was a pvp thread at first. at least a pvp complaint would have some merit. grenade kit isn’t even the best kit for pve. unfounded claims in a joke thread

Rezzet.3614:

Saturn.6591:

coglin.1867:

Rezzet.3614:

if anything that guy isnt even using grenades LOL

The simple fact that this is the first line of your post is a problem in itself, but if you, by default, assume a build is bad simply for not having grenades, your closed mind will limit you greatly. If they want to build a SD build and were smart enough to realize that they have alternatives that they find more fun and of greater damage value to their play, why do you feel you need to mock and belittle that.

He already defended himself, but I can’t help but still write what I thought when I’ve read this post:

Read the OP again, then look at the video which is meant to prove OP’s point, and then read Rezzet’s post.

What Rezzet was lol-ing about wasn’t a build without grenades. It was about the fact that a video of an SD-build was posted to prove that Engineers are overpowered because of grenades.

Someone gets it Thank You ! lol

My apologies. I completely misunderstood your meaning. Sorry about that.

Well, while 1v1 happens frequently in sPvP (a pretty serious structural problem with it and it’s reward structure, actually – shouldn’t happen as 1v1 cannot be balanced in games which are still RPGs), it’s certainly not a desired conflict mode.

Otherwise, there’d be an actual 1v1 supportive mode. If you base your balance on 1v1, you – as a developer – want a 1v1 game mode, or you get no useful statistical data from the servers.

The absence of which – and in fact how much WvW was always the selling point of GW2 – tells a lot about the balance focus.
And mind you, the WoW devs even openly admitted that 2v2 might have been a bad idea (4v4 was scrapped for it). And that is 2v2, in a much more balanced game due to 9 years of simmering. 1v1 is a pipe dream in RPGs, nothing more.

It happens, yes. There are specs which exploit the fact that a) it happens and b) plenty players oddly seem to think it’s something they should expect to be balanced, so they accept the fight.
Not accepting the fight is the proper way to defeat them. Yes, there are still unavoidable 1v1s in unorganized sPvP but then, there’s only so much such a small-format gameplay mode can be balanced. Any combat below the # of effective classes (which isn’t the same as the raw number of classes) is usually unbalanced in RPGs, a result of their basic class-based nature.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I should also mention I’m talking about PvE, not lolPvP. Was late at night, my fault.

Guys n gals, this topic is directed at PvE not PvP/WvW.

lol, op, you have some balls crashing in this forum with this thread. but doesnt look like you know engies. grenades are not at all that popoular. dunno why they get that much hype, may be ostrich popularity and his videos.

i use bombs and elgun always, grenades alternates with toolkit, elixir, else