Guild Wars 2

Hi guys, I have been studying with deep calculus about the FT and numbers out of it. I tested it in sPvP since its easier to test and very versatile. My test was comparing carrion (Cond + power) vs Berserker (Power + Crit dmg). Both having 8-9 stacks of Might, same runes with +25 power and might duration, armors of course has no stats because its sPvP the only difference was 2 trinkets (the ones I mentioned above).

I tested with one single Flame Jet shot and then screenshot. For each trinket I did 7 shots, and 3 shots with incendiary ammo. I noticed that FT provides some nice bleeding condition as well as the last hit with Burn. I didn’t use the trait for incendiary powder just to make things fair and test. I also noticed I would inflict more dmg to a Heavy Golem with Carrion than with Berserker, because FT was inflicting bleed + burn. With incendiary ammo the difference was even bigger, around 85% to 95% of the hp from Golem using Carrion, and only 60% to 70% max using Berserker.

I’m starting to question myself about Power, since we inflict bleed and the new upgrade we received for flamethrowers a 10% more dmg to burning enemies makes me want to go condition dmg, carrion(cond main then power) with incendiary powder to really inflict some crazy burns. Not just thinking about the AoE dmg, but also knowing that the most important thing is how to inflict most dmg in less time. Flame Jet with power you might get like 200 to 500 or a little more, for just one tick, I’m thinking 25 stacks of Might having +875 Power and +875 condition and then adding Condition as main then power, will probably inflict more dmg one one single tick the problem is, Combat Chat mode wont display the condition dmg but we can try to calc the Bleed + Burn + simple hit = X and this one from the tests I have been running would be higher than saying going full Berserker. Another option would be Aidan set focusing Precision, then cond + power, which would make sure to get the crits to land 30% burning from traits. I’m starting to get a little confused so I would really appreciate your points of view. Please also take in consideration the 25 stacks of Might at the same time or any other ideas or suggestions. Also please remember we are only talking about FT not grenade kit or something else.
Thanks a bunch

I also go for CD but i keep some stats with power/crit since our base crit isnt that bad.

You apply bleed because of the 5pt minor trait in firearms.
You are really reducing your dmg by not having incendiary ammo.

Try Rampager’s gear in sPvP.

this is benny in sPvP with rampager amulet and 6pc Runes of the Forge

AryasRevenge.3175:

I also go for CD but i keep some stats with power/crit since our base crit isnt that bad.

Nice point of view… Im thinking yeah like probably two armor pieces with berserker stats. I think we can deal bunch of dmg if we try to imagine the total dmg conditions + power.

I always go carrion personally when i play with flamethrower in spvp. It fits into condition damage builds better imo, and like you said the fast attacks help you get off a lot of bleeds etc, and with flamewall and air blast your looking at some good burning damage.

Also consider the burn damage on flame jet is only 1 second, meaning you get to do a lot of damage that goes past toughness, but ALSO cannot be countered by most condition wipes because your conditions do a lot of damage really fast then go away till you apply them again.

Still dont think flame thrower is the greatest thing in spvp needing just a couple more minor tweaks to bring it up to par, but after last patch i have definitly made it fit into any condition spreading build i use.

EDIT: rampager works alright too.

nakoda.4213:

You apply bleed because of the 5pt minor trait in firearms.
You are really reducing your dmg by not having incendiary ammo.

Try Rampager’s gear in sPvP.

this is benny in sPvP with rampager amulet and 6pc Runes of the Forge

Hi Nakoda dear friend, yes I think you are totally right, this build works perfectly if you go as for condition duration, also tactics like hit and run or AoE range. The only problem is if you face a condition remover opponent but you will still be making some other nice kills. Good point thanks.

About the incendiary ammo, I think u meant the trait Incendiary Powder, I already know what you just said, and you are 100% right, but as I explained, I didn’t take it just to make a clear test with this experiment. My real game play includes “incendiary powder” trait, specially after the new patch. The main purpose of my test is to elaborate a new build based on how much dmg I can get all together conditions + power + crits in 1 second so I’m trying to get short conditions but maxed and mixed (all attributes) and find the best combination to inflict high dmg, that’s also why I’m centering on 25 stacks of might. For the experiment I wont be using the 25 stacks of might nor the incendiary powder just to get a clear view and calculations.

Zinwrath.2049:

Also consider the burn damage on flame jet is only 1 second, meaning you get to do a lot of damage that goes past toughness, but ALSO cannot be countered by most condition wipes because your conditions do a lot of damage really fast then go away till you apply them again.
Still dont think flame thrower is the greatest thing in spvp needing just a couple more minor tweaks to bring it up to par, but after last patch i have definitly made it fit into any condition spreading build i use.

Yup u totally read my mind, this is what I started to realize, you can inflict a 1 sec condition duration but that 1 sec can be increased a lot making it Lethal, therefore I thought about 25 stacks of might, which at the same time increases ur power, but as I tested, seems conditions would provide more of a burst than just having plain power + crits and low cond dmg. Also it’s all about how do you manage to make a burst chain. in 5 secs you wont just toss a spray of FJ, but you will also switch to guns for example, or if the oponent is ranged, then you can even toss a wall of napalm and use it to combo with fire bullets + incendiary ammo.

Anyways thank you both for your comments keep the ideas comming pelase

yes, I did mean incendiary powder.

Naioby.3705:

I’m starting to question myself about Power, since we inflict bleed and the new upgrade we received for flamethrowers a 10% more dmg to burning enemies makes me want to go condition dmg, carrion(cond main then power) with incendiary powder to really inflict some crazy burns.

It’s a 10% damage increase to Flame Jet’s channeling attack that has no effect on its actual Burn damage. If you felt that the Flamethrower scaled better with Power pre-patch, it even more so does now.

Flame Jet and Flame Blast both are more Power-based in their damage than they are Condition based. Fact is: you lose out a ton more raw output going without critical damage from Zerker than you actually gain in Condition Damage with Rampager.

FT can be either Power or Conditions.

If you want multiple conditions, your best bet is to add another kit to your utilities. Elixir gun gives you conditions and healing, while Toolkit gives you conditions, a pull and a block. You also want to stack condition damage and duration.

I’m thinking about grabbing some Apothecary’s gear, Rabid Trinkets (and crests), Giver’s Pistols. Runes: 2 x Lyssa, 2 x Rata Sum, 2 x Forge. Sigils: Smoldering/Agony, Doom

Trait Allocation: 10/30/10/20/0
Traits: Incendiary Powder, Hair Trigger/Infused Precision, Napalm Specialist, FireForged Trigger, Protective Shield, Acidic Coating/Protection Injection/Invigorating Speed/Backpack Regenerator/Self-Regulating Defenses

The idea behind this is to apply as many different conditions as possible and keep them up. Doom and pistol Poison Shot apply poison, FT and pistol Blowtorch deliver burning (Incendiary Powder’s a good plus to this!), while Bleeding is applied by Pistol’s Explosive Shot (and Sharpshooter trait or Elixir Gun or even Toolkit).

Your traits are pretty malleable, playing to your tastes. If you combine Acidic Coating with Protection Injection and Protective Shield, you can cause more Poison damage to enemies while still reducing damage to yourself. If you use Infused Precision, you might want Invigorating Speed for the swiftness/vigor effects that help in keep-away (EG’s Elixir F can help you a little with this).

I can’t remember who said it, but Condition Duration is the +Crit Damage for conditions. 10% from Explosives, Napalm Specialist, Runes, Sigils, and even food (Veggie Pizza!) will help your conditions last almost twice as long.

This isn’t as condition damage intensive as some are, but the idea is to see more conditions on an enemy and keep them away. Use FT’s Air Blast, Pistol’s Glue Gun as your mainstays, while also using Elixir Gun and Tool Kit to give you more defensive/healing capabilities.

Now. . .I haven’t put this together yet, but think it might work well. Has anyone thought about this build?

Phineas Poe.3018:

It’s a 10% damage increase to Flame Jet’s channeling attack that has no effect on its actual Burn damage. If you felt that the Flamethrower scaled better with Power pre-patch, it even more so does now.

Flame Jet and Flame Blast both are more Power-based in their damage than they are Condition based. Fact is: you lose out a ton more raw output going without critical damage from Zerker than you actually gain in Condition Damage with Rampager.

To be sincere, I have a little hard time to understand your phrasing but I want to rephrase to see if this is what you meant:
*It is an extra 10% direct damage from Flame Jet’s ticks to targets that are already burning, and it doesn’t increase the condition damage from burns. If you felt that the Flamethrower’s total dmg scaled better with Power pre-patch, then you will feel it even more now."

If this is what you meant, then I think you are pretty much right, and makes me think even more. I did tests in sPvP with 1 shot (10 ticks) of Flame Jet with a Berserker’s and Carrion’s Trinket, however I forgot about this new patch, and my tests were very simple, and I didn’t even spec with incendiary powder (because I wanted a basic test without extra stuff), so you made me think that it might be possible that if I spec with incendiary powder to get extra burns, it will ensure to have a constant +10% from my direct dmg of FJ. My base tests from Berserker’s vs Carrion’s showed after 8 separated shots of FJ (80 ticks) that Carrion’s would inflict more dmg than Berserker’s because of the bleeding + direct dmg and the 1 sec burn from the last tick. BUT now that you mention this, I’m really wondering, I might probably get more dmg from Berserker’s.

Another thing that I always try to count, is what I sometimes do when I’m completely alone and surrounded by lots of mobs, I spin my FT and hit them all, I know that with incendiary powder I will have many of them burning, and all of them available for a second fast spin to proc with the 10% dmg, specially if I had a “rare veggie pizza”. The spin tactic wouldn’t work that much for the 10% dmg if I didn’t get the pizza and I just rely on the 20% burning duration from traits since that would be 2.4 seconds and I need 2.5 seconds for the next FJ shot. But if I’m in a dungeon with my party mates and I’m aiming a boss or some targets in a line of sight, or lets say sPvP then, I think you don’t even need that pizza to really get that dmg rolling high.

This is very interesting and I actually didn’t pay attention to read carefully the patch notes, thanks for your comment. I will for sure make some tests to see how that goes. Tomorrow I will upload a picture of the best dmg out from 8 FJ shots using Berserker’s and Carrion’s Trinkets. I think I wont test the Rampager’s, in my opinion it’s not an option since precision wont give me any extra dmg, and Carrion’s will give me main cond+power. Any other suggestion on how should I test Berserker’s and Carrion’s? I will try sPvP Heavy Golems, no runes+basic rifle+30 firearms+30 alche+incendiary powder. Not sure if I should test using Sigil of Smoldering or any other Sigil, or just plain to check the total dmg. I might using incendiary ammo, but not sure if I should just use incendiary ammo and no incendiary powder, or use both. Any suggestion please let me know, I really wanna see whats the best fit for the new patch.

Thanks

Here’s the thing: Incendiary Powder’s CD affects only you. Only one enemy will get that burning.

If you want to spread burning more, I would suggest backing away slightly and using Pistol Shot #4 (Blowtorch).This affects multiple enemies, and gives you more chances for damage.

Sporadicus.1028:

FT can be either Power or Conditions.

If you want multiple conditions, your best bet is to add another kit to your utilities. Elixir gun gives you conditions and healing, while Toolkit gives you conditions, a pull and a block. You also want to stack condition damage and duration.

I’m thinking about grabbing some Apothecary’s gear, Rabid Trinkets (and crests), Giver’s Pistols. Runes: 2 x Lyssa, 2 x Rata Sum, 2 x Forge. Sigils: Smoldering/Agony, Doom

Trait Allocation: 10/30/10/20/0
Traits: Incendiary Powder, Hair Trigger/Infused Precision, Napalm Specialist, FireForged Trigger, Protective Shield, Acidic Coating/Protection Injection/Invigorating Speed/Backpack Regenerator/Self-Regulating Defenses

The idea behind this is to apply as many different conditions as possible and keep them up. Doom and pistol Poison Shot apply poison, FT and pistol Blowtorch deliver burning (Incendiary Powder’s a good plus to this!), while Bleeding is applied by Pistol’s Explosive Shot (and Sharpshooter trait or Elixir Gun or even Toolkit).

Your traits are pretty malleable, playing to your tastes. If you combine Acidic Coating with Protection Injection and Protective Shield, you can cause more Poison damage to enemies while still reducing damage to yourself. If you use Infused Precision, you might want Invigorating Speed for the swiftness/vigor effects that help in keep-away (EG’s Elixir F can help you a little with this).

I can’t remember who said it, but Condition Duration is the +Crit Damage for conditions. 10% from Explosives, Napalm Specialist, Runes, Sigils, and even food (Veggie Pizza!) will help your conditions last almost twice as long.

This isn’t as condition damage intensive as some are, but the idea is to see more conditions on an enemy and keep them away. Use FT’s Air Blast, Pistol’s Glue Gun as your mainstays, while also using Elixir Gun and Tool Kit to give you more defensive/healing capabilities.

Now. . .I haven’t put this together yet, but think it might work well. Has anyone thought about this build?

Sounds nice but, there are some things that I would like to contribute. First of all, I don’t know if Apothecary armor’s are still bugged or not. They wouldn’t provide any boon duration “even if” they would show up as extended boon duration. The only way to test this out is with a chronometer. Anybody could test this out to see if they have fixed this already?

Second point is, I’m trying to find a way to make our FT short range viable, how to get closer to target, or stuns, or immobilize a target, or using Elixir S to get closer and hit while invulnerable (one of my fav tricks in sPvP, works so kewl vs thieves). Now that we have our Flame Blast that can be activated remotely, some engineers that are very skillful will be able to land it and make some nice dmg from it, also we have a very nice air blast that increases the burning duration for skills such as the insane blow torch. All of this makes me think that, if you want to go for duration on conditions then you should be whether a “hit and run” engi or a long range engi (nadier, EG, rifle, pierce guns, etc). For instance, Guardians can easily get rid of conditions and that would make cond duration engis to just ignore guardians and try to go to another target. The build that I’m trying to put all together is a build that is centered on a fast burst using FT and some other chain skills, but FT helps me not just for might stacks but also as a walking shield with juggernaut and a nice smoke for those melee that would try to get you down in 6 secs + nice CC to get enemies out of areas in PvP using Air vent (as well extra burn dur). So In my case I prefer to be more of a 85% melee type with 25 stacks of Might and some other tricks.

Anyways I liked your comment and please let me know if you get to try it, maybe I could learn something new and get to see how viable this build could be. Since i have a close friend who runs a fast burst thief, I always test with him in sPvP, same I do with another friend that has a necro. So far everything’s good and I found a way to counter them both, especially the thief.

Sporadicus.1028:

Here’s the thing: Incendiary Powder’s CD affects only you. Only one enemy will get that burning.

If you want to spread burning more, I would suggest backing away slightly and using Pistol Shot #4 (Blowtorch).This affects multiple enemies, and gives you more chances for damage.

Wow, very good point. Then for PvE, such as Orr I might use Static Discharge to hit more targets and make sure I get more loot, or even use Kit Refinement for cond removal + AoE Burn (not a big radius but it worked for me in some dungeons such as CoF and AC). http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Burst

Uhmmm I didn’t think about the incendiary powder’s CD… that’s a problem for AoE… 3 secs CD is a lot T_T.

Apothecary’s are supposed to provide Healing, Toughness, and Condition duration. My setup doesn’t have anything regarding Boon Duration. Giver’s Weapons provide Condition Duration, though.

Sporadicus.1028:

Apothecary’s are supposed to provide Healing, Toughness, and Condition duration. My setup doesn’t have anything regarding Boon Duration. Giver’s Weapons provide Condition Duration, though.

Darn hahaha big big sorry, I got confused and I thought of Giver’s, that is the one that gives boon duration and that one is bugged, maybe it is still bugged.

As for Apothecary’s, as far as I know, it doesn’t provide Condition duration, it is Main healing then toughness + condition damage. Giver’s weapons does provide Condition Duration.

And here I’m wrong for Apothecary’s. It provides Condition damage, not duration.

Still works for my build plan,so I’m not worried about it. I’ll probably have to spend a lot of money on it, though. >.<

Sporadicus.1028:

And here I’m wrong for Apothecary’s. It provides Condition damage, not duration.

Still works for my build plan,so I’m not worried about it. I’ll probably have to spend a lot of money on it, though. >.<

Hehehe yeah, I would even think about farming and crafting it, gold hurts XD

FT fails as a purely power/crit weapon because its only two attacks is a weak flame jet (compare it to any thing else…even bombs 1 skill does more damage ae from power as does grenades, every Greatsword ability on gaurdian/warrior etc) And most importantly your rifle does more damage. You can get three 700 damage shots off from 1200 range that will peirce vs 1200 damage channeled jets at 450 range. This is noncrit ofc.
EDIT: and rifle benefits from power heavily on its blunderbuss, overcharge, and jumpshot holy god yes. it is THE power weapon for engineer.

FT’s only two power attacks is flamejet and fire blast. However condition wise, flame jet (its primary attack) does a VERY high scaling HIGH base condition, air blast does ae condition, napalm does ae condition, your toolbelt applies conditions.

Also, fire blast is great for using your toolbelt then shooting it into a group and detonating, as it will apply the burn to EVERYONE IT HITS.

Also flame jet hits multiple times which normally doesnt really help pure power/crit builds (if anything it works against you). Where with condition, that means 10x to proc your passive bleed in firearms, as well as bleed from stone sigil. meaning you get LOTS of condition spread.

So, to get the best out of this weapon, you probably want to focus more on crit/condition damage …might and power are definitly good as its a hybrid weapon, but it excels at condition spreading. Also did i mention burning is the highest damage condition with the highest scaling damage from condition damage?

Zinwrath.2049:

FT fails as a purely power/crit weapon because its only two attacks is a weak flame jet (compare it to any thing else…even bombs 1 skill does more damage ae from power as does grenades, every Greatsword ability on gaurdian/warrior etc) And most importantly your rifle does more damage. You can get three 700 damage shots off from 1200 range that will peirce vs 1200 damage channeled jets at 450 range. This is noncrit ofc.
EDIT: and rifle benefits from power heavily on its blunderbuss, overcharge, and jumpshot holy god yes. it is THE power weapon for engineer.

FT’s only two power attacks is flamejet and fire blast. However condition wise, flame jet (its primary attack) does a VERY high scaling HIGH base condition, air blast does ae condition, napalm does ae condition, your toolbelt applies conditions.

Also, fire blast is great for using your toolbelt then shooting it into a group and detonating, as it will apply the burn to EVERYONE IT HITS.

Also flame jet hits multiple times which normally doesnt really help pure power/crit builds (if anything it works against you). Where with condition, that means 10x to proc your passive bleed in firearms, as well as bleed from stone sigil. meaning you get LOTS of condition spread.

So, to get the best out of this weapon, you probably want to focus more on crit/condition damage …might and power are definitly good as its a hybrid weapon, but it excels at condition spreading. Also did i mention burning is the highest damage condition with the highest scaling damage from condition damage?

except that the Bleed on crit has an internal cooldown so you ll get 1 bleed tops per spray. burning does high damage but alone its no big threat and easy to remove and you can get perma burning pretty much with pistols and the Explosives V trait. why would you need a flamethrower again?

Rezzet.3614:

except that the Bleed on crit has an internal cooldown so you ll get 1 bleed tops per spray. burning does high damage but alone its no big threat and easy to remove and you can get perma burning pretty much with pistols and the Explosives V trait. why would you need a flamethrower again?

Easy to remove? Most the burns dont last long enough to warrant using your 1-2 TOPS condition wipes. They’re all breif, and you reapply them quickly.

And yea internal cd on all these abilities BUT you didnt read what i said. More oppurtunities. pistol for examp gets 4 1/2 attacks for one flame thrower channel which does 10 attacks. More attacks in a shorter amount of time = more chances to roll the dice for a crit.

Also no one is denying grenades are good. But they dont have a push back/reflect, they dont have an AE blind you can use while stunned or channeling another ability (like stomping someone whos downed). Also grenades work best with a high power build to make use of the crazy vuln stacking. I clearly state FT needs improvements to make its role more defined…and just generally better at what it does.

Anyway, point still stands. Offers more than average oppurtunities to crit thus proc conditions from traits/sigils. 4 ways to apply short but powerful applications of burning (highest damage condition). cannot be countered by condition wipe (Because it is a burning condition it does not last long, and does not intensify in damage the way bleeds do, so stacking is less important than simply reapplying it constantly which the FT does). Also i suggest using it between swapping out for pistol conditions…pistols do not replace it, it does not replace pistols, it works WITH pistols.

Hope this clears things up for you.

Zinwrath.2049:

Rezzet.3614:

except that the Bleed on crit has an internal cooldown so you ll get 1 bleed tops per spray. burning does high damage but alone its no big threat and easy to remove and you can get perma burning pretty much with pistols and the Explosives V trait. why would you need a flamethrower again?

Easy to remove? Most the burns dont last long enough to warrant using your 1-2 TOPS condition wipes. They’re all breif, and you reapply them quickly.

And yea internal cd on all these abilities BUT you didnt read what i said. More oppurtunities. pistol for examp gets 4 1/2 attacks for one flame thrower channel which does 10 attacks. More attacks in a shorter amount of time = more chances to roll the dice for a crit.

Also no one is denying grenades are good. But they dont have a push back/reflect, they dont have an AE blind you can use while stunned or channeling another ability (like stomping someone whos downed). Also grenades work best with a high power build to make use of the crazy vuln stacking. I clearly state FT needs improvements to make its role more defined…and just generally better at what it does.

Anyway, point still stands. Offers more than average oppurtunities to crit thus proc conditions from traits/sigils. 4 ways to apply short but powerful applications of burning (highest damage condition). cannot be countered by condition wipe (Because it is a burning condition it does not last long, and does not intensify in damage the way bleeds do, so stacking is less important than simply reapplying it constantly which the FT does). Also i suggest using it between swapping out for pistol conditions…pistols do not replace it, it does not replace pistols, it works WITH pistols.

Hope this clears things up for you.

This is a very nice point of view. Yes, 1 or 2 sec burn, + 25 stacks of Might + base dmg + bleed dmg + vulnerability = Maybe higher than just going berserker’s and a very nice burst dmg. Afaik the Combat Chat wont display condition dmg numbers, it should.

One must also be concerned about group composition in dungeons. You want your burns to tick? In many cases you better make sure you have the highest condition damage in the group, which these days means going glass cannon.

I think that’s something you should anticipate if you’re going to roll a Condition Damage setup. See who else in the group is doing a Burn build. If someone speaks up you should sort that out rather than challenge each other the entire time.

That’s true. If I see another engineer bringing an FT out, I will swap my build to my more poison-bleed based method.

Sigil of Doom with Pistol and EG works well to apply poison to enemies. If you are tanky, you can also choose the “Acidic Coating” trait (Alchemy minor trait) to apply more poison to melee types.

I think people confuse some abilities with others here, both Sharpshooter and the Precise Sights trait do not have an internal CD.

You can test that easily (just did that): take your engineer and outfit him with 2 pistols with +5% crit, rampager amulet, 6 runes of the thief and 30 pts in firearms. Now you should have around 80% crit chance. Start shooting heavy target golems with single Flame Jets and check the conditions after each blast. I was able to get up to 5 stacks of bleed and 8 stacks of vulnerability on a single golem with a single Flame Jet. Using the golem army in the back, I was able to get 11 stacks of bleed across 3 targets with a single blast. If there is a internal CD on those traits, it’s like 0.5s or something.