Guild Wars 2

Sometime ago I created thread expressing a….concern that myself and other engineer players were having with the way our class and our dependency on kits clashes with the game’s concept of Legendary Weapons. Some of you may remember this, but for those who do not I will post a link below so you can catch up.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Problems-with-Engineers-and-Legendaries/first

We all on the same page? Good.

As of four months ago Colin Johanson claimed that Arena Net was aware of this problem, but was not currently ready to address it as their engineering team was focused more on other issues. I’ll provide a quote.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s something we’re absolutely aware of and want to address in the future, one of my main characters is an engineer so I feel ya on this one. My poor quaggan backpack is visible like 2% of the time I play as I kit swap, never mind my weapon skins.

We’re currently focusing our engineering (programmers, not guys with net guns) resources that could work on solutions to issues like kits/skins on major systems that address issues higher priority and wider reaching like lag in large battles, LFG, custom arenas, spectator mode and so on but this issue is absolutely on our radar.

As always, please post your ideas of what you’d like to see solution wise, we love to see the fun ideas y’all come up with too!

Now as of the September third update Legendary Weapons will be getting another pass. However this isn’t just a graphical or cosmetic upgrade, the addition of player alterable stats means that a significant measure of engineering time and resources was put toward this update, an update clearly intended to make Legendary Weapons more valuable, desirable, and enjoyable to all past, present, and future owners. Except, based on the short description on the release preview, to engineers.

Arena Net, if the September third update does not at least address the engineer kit issue you will have failed at your apparent goal, and I for one will be very disappointed. How long must we wait for you to correct an oversight that never should have made it into the live release in the first place?

Well they tend to ignore us Engineers on more than just the legendaries…
Hobo-sacks unite!

Oh and i thought i had it tough when i found out that the incinerator im getting for my necro offhand will not throw daggers on DeathShroud.

The Epic feel of Legendaries will be focused in the way we need i hope, cause most people hope for more bling bling on same mechanics .

Really i don’t mind engies getting the upgrade and my miniature request gets squashed because an engineer not using kits to enjoy his legendary is sad

skullmount.1758:

Hobo-sacks unite!

^
lol
Other than that I’m working on a pistol for my engineer, that I’m very much aware I won’t be seeing that often. I really wish that tool kits would get effects linked to the legendary that you have equipped.

Yes well- I gave up on this.
I have a back piece I love that I only see underwater because of a weird glitch when I swap to kits.
I would kill for at least a different kit skin- any kit skin.
Or have my actual back piece stay on my back

For you guys who want to go for the pistol or the rifle- I really really hope this gets sorted out for you.
Engineer is an awesome class and one of the most fun in the game.
There have been multiple upgrades to Legendary Weapons and still Engineers are left out.
It sucks

I was never able to understand why they did that to engineers.
The endgame is all about cosmetics, and engineers are basically excluded from all of those.
They continue putting backpacks as rewards in the various living story events…and engineers won’t ever see them due to kits. Same as weapons. It defeats all the purpose.

Well the mods were quick to sweep this one out of the public eye. God forbid a developer actually see it…

Arkham Creed.7358:

Well the mods were quick to sweep this one out of the public eye. God forbid a developer actually see it…

Yup. Gotta say I was expecting it though.

out of sight out of mind eh?

I hope more toolbelt skills will be affected by Quip ^/\^
like BoB explodes with confetti and rabbits and emits a mushroom cloud like that of an atomic bomb

as a new predator owner im hoping next weeks updates have something about this

lindsey said quip got some changes, flameseeker prophecies did not, and didnt say anything about predator. (unfortunately i missed the livestream and watched the vod or i certainly wouldve been spamming about legendaries + kits = sad >.>)

BUT
she only said she thought quip got some animation changes and/or footsteps…. and did NOT say anything about kits specifically.

The Predator footfalls needs a fix. Currently when you walk up a hill the footfalls doesn’t show.

Welp, they’ve improved Legendaries:

Changes to Legendary Weapons

Legendary weapons now have increased stats to keep them in line with the new ascended weapons as “best in slot” items.
Legendary weapons now have functionality to allow their inherent stat combo to be changed to any other stat combo when out of combat.
The Bifrost: Updated the effects and texture to be more detailed and vibrant, enlarged the footfall effects, and added a new projectile.
Adjusted the position of the golden arrow on Kudzu and updated the effects on the Kudzu projectile.
Meteorlogicus: Updated the texture, effects, and animations; added a day/night cycle for the effects; and added a new footfall effect.
Frostfang now has larger, more impressive footfall effects.
The Juggernaut, Bolt, Incinerator, and Rodgort now have larger footfall effects.
Quip now has more impressive footfall effects.
Updated the texture and effects on The Moot.
Updated the effects on The Minstrel to be larger, more impressive, and more frequent.
Updated the pommel on Eternity and added a unique footfall effect.
Added a new footfall effect to The Dreamer.
Added a new projectile to Frenzy.
Added a new skill effect to Howler.
Updated the effects and texture on Kraitkin.

Checked the patch notes twice, though, and couldn’t find anything about Kits or Bundles. Nice to feel like they actually care, isn’t it?

yes…yes it is….do i even need to make ascended weapons :[. why do i own a quip again?? huh, what was i……(/fadesaway)

“higher priority and wider reaching”

Mad Rasputin.7809:

“higher priority and wider reaching”

If there are actually more people with a Legendary then Engineers i’d say there is a very serious problem going on.

So i just tested it.

I set my quip to zerker and put an exotic zerker in my off hand and it looked like this.

with quip = 2585 (taking into account my gear ofc)
in nades = 2548
deductions = 37

now i remove quip, keep the zeker exotic in my off hand, no changes to my gear then equip a zerker exotic pistol in my main hand.

with the exotic pistol = 2556
in nades = 2544
deductions = 12

nades (quip) – nades (zerk exotic) = 4

4 equals the increase in power from having an ascended weapon equiped over an exotic. (this is applied while in kit)
This implies that kit base strength has not been increased.
furthermore as shown above there is a base str differential of 25 over an exotic weapon and a 33 (deducting the plus 4) point differential while in kit.

Singer.8740:

So i just tested it.

I set my quip to zerker and put an exotic zerker in my off hand and it looked like this.

with quip = 2585 (taking into account my gear ofc)
in nades = 2548
deductions = 37

now i remove quip, keep the zeker exotic in my off hand, no changes to my gear then equip a zerker exotic pistol in my main hand.

with the exotic pistol = 2556
in nades = 2544
deductions = 12

nades (quip) – nades (zerk exotic) = 4

4 equals the increase in power from having an ascended weapon equiped over an exotic. (this is applied while in kit)
This implies that kit base strength has not been increased.
furthermore as shown above there is a base str differential of 25 over an exotic weapon and a 33 (deducting the plus 4) point differential while in kit.

i do not know what the base numbers were before patch so if anyone can carry on from were i have left off it would be much appreciated.

Singer.8740:

So i just tested it.

I set my quip to zerker and put an exotic zerker in my off hand and it looked like this.

with quip = 2585 (taking into account my gear ofc)
in nades = 2548
deductions = 37

now i remove quip, keep the zeker exotic in my off hand, no changes to my gear then equip a zerker exotic pistol in my main hand.

with the exotic pistol = 2556
in nades = 2544
deductions = 12

nades (quip) – nades (zerk exotic) = 4

4 equals the increase in power from having an ascended weapon equiped over an exotic. (this is applied while in kit)
This implies that kit base strength has not been increased.
furthermore as shown above there is a base str differential of 25 over an exotic weapon and a 33 (deducting the plus 4) point differential while in kit.

Point being, if I’m reading this right, now they’re not just screwing the pooch cosmetically, they’re screwing the gameplay, too, by not updating Kits to match Ascended gear base stats.

They’ll probably update Kit damage to match Ascended gear around Halloween or Christmas, I imagine; long enough for everyone else to get Ascended gear, and get us worked into a right lather about the bullkitten of it all. Who needs to actually make sure that the Engineer’s skills are working right and being scaled properly?

remember i dont know what the difference was before the patch this is just what it is now. it would be nice if someone with the information ( like a DEV cough COUGH) could put it here.

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

Nime.2089:

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

As are mesmers, but they still get better treatment than us.

BALANCE, BUG-FIXING, POLISH
•Super Adventure Box of Fun is now giftable from the Gemstore.
•Fixed an unintended damage increase that caused engineer kits, elementalist conjures, and warrior banners to deal more damage than intended.
•Fixed an issue that was causing the loading screen to drop prematurely.
•Fixed various crashes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-September-3-2013/first#post2768357

Working on capes and new legendary trinkets??

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1log4d/precursor_crafting_this_year_colin_johanson_pax/

“higher priority and wider reaching”

I see no reason to get any ascendend/legendary weapon on engineer because of this stupid “hotfix”. Translation of the hotfix: All classes damage gets buffed excluding engineer because we don’t like him.

Forestnator.6298:

I see no reason to get any ascendend/legendary weapon on engineer because of this stupid “hotfix”. Translation of the hotfix: All classes damage gets buffed excluding engineer because we don’t like him.

There is very little reason to get an ascended weapon or a legendary for an Engie at this point. Especially if you are in kits the majority of the time.

“But hey, engineers can get flame and frost dyes as prestige objects.” – must anet think.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Nime.2089:

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

As are mesmers, but they still get better treatment than us.

The grass is always greener. If you think Mesmer’s have gotten good treatment then they must come to your home and flog you while you play. We’re excited when we don’t get any patch notes.

Anyhow, as I’ve said in other threads I think you guys are jumping the gun. You have one weapon set plus potentially kits (I never did like the idea of limiting your sets because you can potentially equip kits, but that’s another argument). If you had a legendary then you now have a single ascended in your main set and an ‘exotic’ in your offset(s) – just like everyone else that had a Legendary.

The point is, you are just as likely to have had a single legendary or have gotten a day 1 Ascended drop as anyone else. The vast majority of players are still in the same range as you. Automatically updating what ANet sees as your second weapon set to Ascended status on day 1 would be silly when most of the player base doesn’t even have a single ascended weapon, let alone the potential for two sets worth.

I do think that given your restrictions it should be easier for you, but it’s not causing any imbalance at the moment. Hopefully they’ll development a method to key kit potency based on your main-hand weapon’s rarity.

Our main weapon damage is kitten because we are versatile and have access to kits.

Our kit weapon damage is kitten because we have access to an ascended weapon on our main hand and kits are a ‘secondary weapon set’ essentially?

Makes no sense.

Nime.2089:

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

I’d like to see those numbers for only level 80 characters. Just because people have made Engineer alts, it doesn’t mean they’ve played them for more than a few hours.

Mif.3471:

Nime.2089:

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

I’d like to see those numbers for only level 80 characters. Just because people have made Engineer alts, it doesn’t mean they’ve played them for more than a few hours.

This is exactly what I thought. As someone who has studied infographic and data visualization, this looked very questionable at best, and misleading at worst.

1. There is no indication that this represents hours played vs. toons rolled. kitten , I KNOW there are more guardians than that everywhere in the game.

2. There is no graphic indicating a percentage breakdown of hours played as certain professions by the Devs, Beta testers, or other affiliated parties. This would be a strong indicator of potential bias. We know where this is going, too.

3. There is no information about hours played vs. achievement points, indicating not just hours played on a toon but what content people playing these toons have been successful with. This would break out a LOT of the misinformation, including all the rangers that may or may not be played by bots.

4. Where is the breakout graphic showing break down of PvE, sPvP, tPvP, Rank Weighted PvP, and WvW hours/ranks?

I don’t think we’ll get this specific information because it will reinforce what people already assume about the game and it’s mechanics. Specifically that more insiders play the big 2 – Guardians and Warriors (Greatswords, Greatswords everywhere); The hours played by these professions correlate to higher achievement points, higher WvW ranks, and higher overall pvp ranks. With the WvW ranks there will be 2 in a close second, Thieves and Mesmers, due to OP class mechanics.

If Achievement points were used to weight percentages of hours played, I would be willing to bet there is an even bigger reverse bell curve to be had in this data.

Even more interesting would be graphs like:

Hours played per profession every month since beta – ALL game areas.

Characters created vs. hours played.

Break out races (hours played – monthly) by xPvP, WvW, and PvE only. (asuras have smaller animations, big surprise).

Achievement points / hours played – xyz graph with professions as the z-axis. (I call this graph the Bot Spotter).

WxP earned per hour played by profession.

Dastion.3106:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Nime.2089:

The problem is, we are only 10% of GW2: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

As are mesmers, but they still get better treatment than us.

The grass is always greener. If you think Mesmer’s have gotten good treatment then they must come to your home and flog you while you play. We’re excited when we don’t get any patch notes.

Right…you want proof that Arena Net likes mesmers more than engineers?

Take a look at this…
http://youtu.be/yP-bMPn8pto?t=2m50s

And then this….
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mimic

Also rumor is that Portal was originally supposed to be ours too.

They’ve ignored us on fixing condition damage.

They’ve ignored us on fixing hobo sacks.

They’ve ignored us on improving gadgets.

They’ve ignored us on legendaries.

I don’t see them listening to us at this point. Many of us posted suggestions to fix the inherent problems with this class just after launch. People have made videos about it well known names have talked about the changes made to the class that has broken it. But according to their flyer post they’re doing great on everything over the past year and nothing’s wrong.

You should know by now that in dev language, “address in the future” means “I don’t really care what bothers you my job is done anyway”

Mesket.5728:

You should know by now that in dev language, “address in the future” means “I don’t really care what bothers you my job is done anyway”

Or

“Hahahaha, why would i fix a class that would be a threat to me when i can just keep them weak and lolstomp them while playing”

On the bright side, as an Engineer I don’t have to bother upgrading my weapons (no stat increase) and as a Charr I don’t have to bother working towards any armour set (only cultural medium or Rascal looks good and fits).

Easiest class/race combination to gear up :P

I main Engineer and play solely WvW…if anyone feels like they’re alienated outside of the games development focus it’s myself and folks like me.

The one year anniversary posted some metrics that shed some light on why the issue was, is, and will continue to be unaddressed: Engineers only make up 10% of the player population.

Now when considering that only 10% of players are Engineers, if even 50% of them are actually the type of player that wants to sink their time into a Legendary, and of that number 75% run kit builds, this would mean that all the development time they put into making a Legendary Rifle, Pistol, and Shield have an effect on kit skins would target less than 4% of the entire player base. The implementation of it would be irrelevant to 96.25% of players in Guild Wars 2, and as such is impossible to justify any more than 3.75% of their development time, which in any given 8 hour work day is 18 minutes, which translates to 1.5 hours a week.

The laws of a development process rooted in the industry trend of basing every move upon metrics dictates that this fix is highly improbable no matter how much myself or anyone else, including Colin Johanson, would like to see it.

That’s just how the cookie crumbles…