Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

In the context of PvP, which do you think of the 2 point Invention traits is better?

Assume you already have 20 or 30 points in Alchemy and you are running something bunkery as your yoloq team has no one to stand on points?

Protective Shield: Gain Protection for 3 (3.75 if running 30 in Alchemy) seconds when you are critically hit. 20 second cooldown.

Stabilised Armour: You take 20% less damage when you are knocked down or stunned.

I’ve personally gone with Protective Shield but I’m never sure about this decision. I looked on the forums but couldn’t find a similar thread.

Discussion welcome!

Why would you suggest that they are not used in WvW? Protection when stunned+stabilized armor together is -53% damage when stunned. A great combo for the hammer train and small groups with a lot of CC, when you figure out stun breaks are 25s or longer cool downs.

coglin.1867:

Why would you suggest that they are not used in WvW? Protection when stunned+stabilized armor together is -53% damage when stunned. A great combo for the hammer train and small groups with a lot of CC, when you figure out stun breaks are 25s or longer cool downs.

Won’t claim to know anything about WvW so you may be right. I just never see any meta builds running points into Inventions.

I take it from your post you are a big fan of Stabilised Armour + Protection Injection then?

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee thinks Inventions is the worst tree that the Engineers have! It has ok defensive traits but the Alchemy tree is always better! And if you go both Inventions and Alchemy it’s just going to poop on your offensive power! But if you really wanted to pick up Protective Shield or Stabilized Armor, well Vee Wee thinks it’s situational! If you are against many hambows, take Stabilized Armor! Stabilized Armor + Protection Injection work great together! If you are against many burst classes like Fresh Air Ele or Thieves, take Protective Shield! If Vee Wee absolutely had to pick one for general use, Vee Wee would pick Protective Shield! Protection is an amazing boon!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee thinks Inventions is the worst tree that the Engineers have! It has ok defensive traits but the Alchemy tree is always better! And if you go both Inventions and Alchemy it’s just going to poop on your offensive power! But if you really wanted to pick up Protective Shield or Stabilized Armor, well Vee Wee thinks it’s situational! If you are against many hambows, take Stabilized Armor! Stabilized Armor + Protection Injection work great together! If you are against many burst classes like Fresh Air Ele or Thieves, take Protective Shield! If Vee Wee absolutely had to pick one for general use, Vee Wee would pick Protective Shield! Protection is an amazing boon!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Thanks for your input!

I used to hate the Inventions tree myself because most of the traits suck but recently, I’ve been putting 20 points into Inventions for Power Shoes (so I don’t need to take Speedy Kits) and Automated Medical Response.

As you say, it “poops” on offense but for bunker builds – the Toughness and Healing Power is absolutely essential.

Edit: I always assume at least 20 points into Alchemy for builds nowadays :P

stab armor in wvw!

its just a little perk along the way to getting power shoes & the heal reset.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee thinks Inventions is the worst tree that the Engineers have! It has ok defensive traits but the Alchemy tree is always better! And if you go both Inventions and Alchemy it’s just going to poop on your offensive power! But if you really wanted to pick up Protective Shield or Stabilized Armor, well Vee Wee thinks it’s situational! If you are against many hambows, take Stabilized Armor! Stabilized Armor + Protection Injection work great together! If you are against many burst classes like Fresh Air Ele or Thieves, take Protective Shield! If Vee Wee absolutely had to pick one for general use, Vee Wee would pick Protective Shield! Protection is an amazing boon!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Um…you are kind of way off base about inventions. Reinforced shield, power shoes, turret traits (which stack AMAZINGLY well with a condition engi build that needs added burst damage to really make conditions hurt)

I can run the same build for PVE/PVP/WVW

0
0
6
6
1

insanemaniac.2456:

stab armor in wvw!

its just a little perk along the way to getting power shoes & the heal reset.

The heal reset provides endless instances of severe trolling.

Blackjacks.9856:

insanemaniac.2456:

stab armor in wvw!

its just a little perk along the way to getting power shoes & the heal reset.

The heal reset provides endless instances of severe trolling.

The 90 second cooldown really prevents ‘endless’ instances of trolling, but it’s a solid 15pt trait.

Also you’re saying that 25% speed increase, 3 seconds of prot every 20s, and static turret damage is so great for condition Engineers?

I’m sure it can do the trick sometimes but..

Why would you ever need Protective Shield over Protection Injection or Invigorating Speed – while you’re simply on the way to getting godly traits like Transmute and Backpack Regenerator?

Why would you ever need 25% speed increase when you have 33% speed increase for less investment?

Why would you need a base damage increase on turret auto attacks when you’re running a condition build?

Instead, try investing all of those 6 points in Inventions into Explosives and destroy everything?

Inventions won’t be worth taking in condi builds until it becomes at least situationally better at surviving than Alchemy will, point for point. So far, Alchemy wins out. Explosives is pretty much a must, too. Firearms and Inventions are the poor man’s Explosives and Alchemy, respectively.

0/0/6/6/2 is only going to really work for a build that either doesn’t need offense (pure support/bunker), or derives it’s damage purely from A.I turrets.

Chaith.8256:

The 90 second cooldown really prevents ‘endless’ instances of trolling, but it’s a solid 15pt trait.

no i troll pretty much endlessly with it

Chaith.8256:

Blackjacks.9856:

insanemaniac.2456:

stab armor in wvw!

its just a little perk along the way to getting power shoes & the heal reset.

The heal reset provides endless instances of severe trolling.

The 90 second cooldown really prevents ‘endless’ instances of trolling, but it’s a solid 15pt trait.

Also you’re saying that 25% speed increase, 3 seconds of prot every 20s, and static turret damage is so great for condition Engineers?

I’m sure it can do the trick sometimes but..

Why would you ever need Protective Shield over Protection Injection or Invigorating Speed – while you’re simply on the way to getting godly traits like Transmute and Backpack Regenerator?

Why would you ever need 25% speed increase when you have 33% speed increase for less investment?

Why would you need a base damage increase on turret auto attacks when you’re running a condition build?

Instead, try investing all of those 6 points in Inventions into Explosives and destroy everything?

Inventions won’t be worth taking in condi builds until it becomes at least situationally better at surviving than Alchemy will, point for point. So far, Alchemy wins out. Explosives is pretty much a must, too. Firearms and Inventions are the poor man’s Explosives and Alchemy, respectively.

0/0/6/6/2 is only going to really work for a build that either doesn’t need offense (pure support/bunker), or derives it’s damage purely from A.I turrets.

Th secret strength of turrets: Being able to do guaranteed sustained damage without actually having to be “there”. Kiting is something engis do well, thumper turret makes kiting almost TOO easy, an AoE cripple that does just under 700 damage with an AOE higher damage launch (that is also a blast finisher, mix with the smoke screen from smoke turret or the water field from healing turret)? Not to mention you have the ability to THROW it at someone with it applying 5 seconds of prot every 10 seconds it’s already a winner, toss in your weapon skills, other turrets (that free elixir B you get at 75% health), it’s a very effective and versatile set up that is easily tailored to your tastes.

Plus you don’t look stupid swapping between 4 kits to do the exact same thing, kill something.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Deleted my old post because Vee Wee was being too unfrandly! It was very unlike Vee Wee! Anyway “Turret Engis are trash Engis!” -Hiba, ToL2 winner!

And he is right! Vee Wee explained why Turret Engis many times in previous threads! Inventions is just a worse Alchemy tree! Taking both means you have no offensive power! That’s just how it is my frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Deleted my old post because Vee Wee was being too unfrandly! It was very unlike Vee Wee! Anyway “Turret Engis are trash Engis!” -Hiba, ToL2 winner!

And he is right! Vee Wee explained why Turret Engis many times in previous threads! Inventions is just a worse Alchemy tree! Taking both means you have no offensive power! That’s just how it is my frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Oh I see it’s just like the Moba scene where if a “pro” does it or says something, it’s law right? Builds aren’t hard man, if you need to constantly be told what is/isn’t good then you yourself aren’t good.

Part of being an engi is engineering your own build, I have seen some seriously (and even come up witha few) wacky engi builds and the only thing that really separates any of them is skill/understanding their skills and their opponents.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

No thilly! Vee Wee has been creating Vee Wee’s own builds for 2 years now! Some of these builds are even quite popular Vee Wee has been told! Vee Wee was just giving an example! Turret builds are garbo! Someone who is really good at Engi, and even played a turret build in tournaments agrees! Even though Vee Wee has been saying turret builds are jokes since April 15, Vee Wee is not as efamous as a tournament winner! People are more inclined to listen to efamous people!

Also turret builds aren’t really that original!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Blackjacks.9856:

Part of being an engi is engineering your own build, I have seen some seriously (and even come up witha few) wacky engi builds and the only thing that really separates any of them is skill/understanding their skills and their opponents.

Very true.

Fortunately, Engineers that are great at running kit based builds well are on a tier well high and above Engineers that are great at running turret builds.

You can thank the hobbit-sized skill ceiling of turrets for that.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

No thilly! Vee Wee has been creating Vee Wee’s own builds for 2 years now! Some of these builds are even quite popular Vee Wee has been told! Vee Wee was just giving an example! Turret builds are garbo! Someone who is really good at Engi, and even played a turret build in tournaments agrees! Even though Vee Wee has been saying turret builds are jokes since April 15, Vee Wee is not as efamous as a tournament winner! People are more inclined to listen to efamous people!

Also turret builds aren’t really that original!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

People are also inclined to develop deaf ears towards someone who tried to bash players with negativity for using a working build just because you do not like it. If you do not like turret builds, go make your own thread over it and stop being a “derail” troll and making this topic about it. You las few post offered nothing to the topic, but simply bashed a build simply because someone said they enjoyed it, yet the topic of your bashing has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Thanks for all the input although I see the thread has derailed slightly into Inventions vs Explosives.

I believe there is currently a common assumption that anyone running Inventions is running full turret. I don’t believe this is the case as Inventions offers defensive stats which will be extremely useful for surviving. While not the purpose of this thread, the discussion should be more Inventions vs Firearms vs Tools.

With the incoming FT/Bomb Kit might stacks, I imagine Inventions will be used even more ala (4,0,4,6,0).

For the record, I agree that full Turret builds aren’t so good and I feel terrible if I’m not running at least 2 kits.

With this in mind, I have edited the OP to assume the Engineer is running 30 points into Alchemy already (as any good Engineer speccing into defence would).

Any other thoughts on Protection Injection vs Stabilised Armour would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee was just responding to someone who says going full inventions is good for condi builds! It’s not! That’s a fact! But you are right! People have a right to play whatever build they want! It doesn’t matter how effective the build is! Vee Wee hasn’t played an optimal build in weeks! Just Kill Shot Warrior and Gadget Engi because it’s funny! The difference is though, is that Vee Wee knows these builds are just thilly builds!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Aww, how cute. A random, self promoter assumes there opinion on the forums is a “fact”…….That’s a first.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

You are right! Vee Wee was insane! Going 30 Inventions is the condi Engi meta! How could Vee Wee have been so blind!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

You are right! Vee Wee was insane! Going 30 Inventions is the condi Engi meta! How could Vee Wee have been so blind!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Meta doesn’t mean “good”. I can run a full turret build or a turret/elixir gun hybrid and both are insanely effective, neither are meta.

Blackjacks.9856:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

You are right! Vee Wee was insane! Going 30 Inventions is the condi Engi meta! How could Vee Wee have been so blind!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Meta doesn’t mean “good”. I can run a full turret build or a turret/elixir gun hybrid and both are insanely effective, neither are meta.

Another off topic post but i’d say you have it the wrong way around.

I’d say Full turret build is very much meta with every 2nd rerolled Engie running it. Definitely not insanely effective.

Blackjacks.9856:

Meta doesn’t mean “good”.

:)

Meta (from the Greek preposition and prefix meta- (????-) meaning “after” or “beyond”) is a prefix used in English to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter.

chungiee.8764:

Blackjacks.9856:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

You are right! Vee Wee was insane! Going 30 Inventions is the condi Engi meta! How could Vee Wee have been so blind!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Meta doesn’t mean “good”. I can run a full turret build or a turret/elixir gun hybrid and both are insanely effective, neither are meta.

Another off topic post but i’d say you have it the wrong way around.

I’d say Full turret build is very much meta with every 2nd rerolled Engie running it. Definitely not insanely effective.

The amount of frustration a Thumper/Flame turret combo (that is also providing 5 stacks of might and 5 seconds of protection every 10 seconds to allies in the area) is kind of amazing for general defense, the ability to throw them turns you into a battlefield mastermind.

Blackjacks.9856:

The amount of frustration a Thumper/Flame turret combo (that is also providing 5 stacks of might and 5 seconds of protection every 10 seconds to allies in the area) is kind of amazing for general defense, the ability to throw them turns you into a battlefield mastermind.

Well, not to be picky, but it’s 3 stacks of might for 10 seconds, and 3 seconds of protection. You’d need +66% increase to protection to get 5 seconds, where Alchemy only gives 30%.

Also, let’s say that I really DO like Thumper and Flame Turret combo, and being a battlefield mastermind with AoE Boons. I can still get all that and actually run a full power condition build that can AoE condi-wreck things, and still duel well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpErVWxqKseNCbBNqxI6NWlZ/5IEgkC-TJxHwAT2fYwDA4YZAAnAAA

Boom. Sacrificing points in Inventions, even with Turrets, takes the build’s performance to the next level.

To tie back in to the original post, the Protective Shield vs. Stabilised Armor debate simply comes down to whether you are expecting to encounter enemies who depend on long duration stuns/KDs to land burst, or face enemies who simply tear into you like Thieves and Mesmers.

The debate of whether an Engineer should be in Inventions at all, if he’s aiming to be the most effective, is definitely a more interesting topic, which apparently there are some varied opinions :P

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

Shaogin.2679:

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

No he isn’t he is an annoying self important troll who holds his opinion over all others, even when he is wrong. This whole “Pro worship” culture of gaming really needs to stop, now.

Blackjacks.9856:

Shaogin.2679:

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

No he isn’t he is an annoying self important troll who holds his opinion over all others, even when he is wrong. This whole “Pro worship” culture of gaming really needs to stop, now.

I agree re: “pro worship” but you’re making a fundamental mistake in your reasoning. Veewee isn’t touting his opinion from a position of fame or because he’s just a good player, he’s explaining from two years of experience and build trialing. There is a wide margin between talking like you know it all because you have position and talking like you know it all because you actually have done it, tried and tested .

He’s also correct.

My first engi builds were centered around the inventions line because I wanted healing bombs. I pretty much dropped them though because the other traitlines offered more power and versatility. The fact is that elixir infused bomb builds have all but died out because the rest of the tree is so god-awful. Some of the traits sound good on paper but in practice they are too situational and provide too little benefit to warrant the cost to offensive power. The uptimes of the effects are so low that they’re forgettable and many of them can be replicated in a more effective way, or just plain replaced through other trees, for greater benefits to survival and damage output, across a wider range of scenarios.

I know where you are coming from and I really want to like Inventions, but it really is our weakest traitline.

As for OP, yeah if you’re gonna stay in inventions then Stabilized Armor can be a good choice situationally. Alternatively you can pick up freqeuent vigor, constant healing, aegis, automatic condition cleanse every 15 seconds and protection through other traitlines such as tools and alchemy to replace the loss of stabilized armor, you probably won’t miss it. I don’t.

wolfyrik.2017:

Blackjacks.9856:

Shaogin.2679:

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

No he isn’t he is an annoying self important troll who holds his opinion over all others, even when he is wrong. This whole “Pro worship” culture of gaming really needs to stop, now.

I agree re: “pro worship” but you’re making a fundamental mistake in your reasoning. Veewee isn’t touting his opinion from a position of fame or because he’s just a good player, he’s explaining from two years of experience and build trialing. There is a wide margin between talking like you know it all because you have position and talking like you know it all because you actually have done it, tried and tested .

He’s also correct.

My first engi builds were centered around the inventions line because I wanted healing bombs. I pretty much dropped them though because the other traitlines offered more power and versatility. The fact is that elixir infused bomb builds have all but died out because the rest of the tree is so god-awful. Some of the traits sound good on paper but in practice they are too situational and provide too little benefit to warrant the cost to offensive power. The uptimes of the effects are so low that they’re forgettable and many of them can be replicated in a more effective way, or just plain replaced through other trees, for greater benefits to survival and damage output, across a wider range of scenarios.

I know where you are coming from and I really want to like Inventions, but it really is our weakest traitline.

As for OP, yeah if you’re gonna stay in inventions then Stabilized Armor can be a good choice situationally. Alternatively you can pick up freqeuent vigor, constant healing, aegis, automatic condition cleanse every 15 seconds and protection through other traitlines such as tools and alchemy to replace the loss of stabilized armor, you probably won’t miss it. I don’t.

He is NOT correct. Inventions is incredibly useful for anyone running turrets/shield/wants more defensive options. The whole idea of “MOARDPSPLZ” is great for pve, great strength is nothing without the ability to APPLY it and make it effective.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand Blackjacks! Listen! Inventions is an ok defensive tree! But Alchemy is miles better! If you go deep into both the Inventions tree and Alchemy tree, you are just useless offensively! You are right in that damage isn’t everything! But Vee Wee never said that! Survivability is important! It’s the reason why we put points into Alchemy! But how do you plan on beating people without any offensive capabilities whatsoever! Especially in this tanky sustain meta! Yes if you want to go triple turrets then obviously you want to go deep into Inventions! That’s where all the turret traits are! But it’s a general consensus that these builds aren’t that good and will almost always lose against competent players! Vee Wee gave reasons why this is so in previous threads but Vee Wee will say them again! Just for you!

• Zero mobility!
• Long cooldowns!
• No kits!
• Can’t fight off point! At all!
• Essentially worthless without any turrets!
• Worthless in team fights!
• No stunbreak unless you sacrifice strongest turret + protection uptime!
• Weakness to conditions, though to be fair all Engis are weak to conditions!
• Bunker without stability!

Hope that helped! Wahoo! Bye frands!

Blackjacks.9856:

Shaogin.2679:

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

No he isn’t he is an annoying self important troll who holds his opinion over all others, even when he is wrong. This whole “Pro worship” culture of gaming really needs to stop, now.

Actually I don’t even like Vee Wee. I just recognize that he knows what he is talking about and for the most part does what he can to steer engineers trying to learn away from bad information. His posts may be annoying to read and he may seem self-centered, but his posts are constructive and for the most part do not resort to personal attacks against other players, unlike yourself. Then also the fact that he has experience with such builds outside of HotJoin, unlike yourself. Then add the fact that anyone else who has made it out of HotJoins (hell I’ve only been to 536 soloqueue) has had the same experiences and know what he says to be correct.

I like Vee Wee.
Wahoo !

Shaogin.2679:

his posts are constructive

Yes because using this line after you state your opinion is constructive
V

ArrDee.2573:

That’s a fact!

Intentionally declaring nonfactual statements as fact is not constructive. Neither is supporting those that do so. Newer players or newer engineers will not find this helpful either.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand coglin! If you find me a successful condition build that goes deep into both Alchemy and Inventions, I’ll retract my statement! But let me save you the trouble and tell you that no such build exists! That’s a fact!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand coglin! If you find me a successful condition build that goes deep into both Alchemy and Inventions, I’ll retract my statement! But let me save you the trouble and tell you that no such build exists! That’s a fact!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Vee Wee is actually a very good engi and knows his stuff. But this just sounded like a challenge I couldn’t resist
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPr1XxdLseNiaBF6MuxAIyQ2kPGhCA-TJhIwALLDA4EAsa/hvPAAA
LA BUILD! (Tested it a bit, works pretty well, nothing too amazing.)

Thanks for everyone’s input so far. The consensus seems to be that Stabilised Armour is best vs Warriors but Protective Shield is generally better.

I agree with Chaith in that the value of Inventions is a very interesting discussion.

As an aside, I think Inventions is very underrated. The extra sustain you get really helps (espcially with Bombs) as it lets you stay on point longer and land your hits. A standard 6,0,0,6,2 build forces you to stay on the edge of the point/fight and potentially reduces the damage you can deal as you constantly have to kite.

I fully expect 4,0,4,6,0 to be a fantastic build post patch with Bomb + FT.

Twigifire.8379:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand coglin! If you find me a successful condition build that goes deep into both Alchemy and Inventions, I’ll retract my statement! But let me save you the trouble and tell you that no such build exists! That’s a fact!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Vee Wee is actually a very good engi and knows his stuff. But this just sounded like a challenge I couldn’t resist
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPr1XxdLseNiaBF6MuxAIyQ2kPGhCA-TJhIwALLDA4EAsa/hvPAAA
LA BUILD! (Tested it a bit, works pretty well, nothing too amazing.)

Ooooh challenge accepted ehhh gleeful hand rubbing. Love the spirit!

I didn’t quite agree with some of the traits/runes/amulet though so made some changes.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPr1XxdLseNCbBFyZcRRfkq0xP2gAA-TJRHwAV2fIZZABnAAAPAAA

What do you think Twigifire? As Vee Wee and Chaith said, Alchemy is always better than Inventions and Elixir Infused bomb is generally not that great. I’ve also changed Stabilised Armour → Protective Shield as per the post’s topic.

chungiee.8764:

Twigifire.8379:

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

My frand coglin! If you find me a successful condition build that goes deep into both Alchemy and Inventions, I’ll retract my statement! But let me save you the trouble and tell you that no such build exists! That’s a fact!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Vee Wee is actually a very good engi and knows his stuff. But this just sounded like a challenge I couldn’t resist
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPr1XxdLseNiaBF6MuxAIyQ2kPGhCA-TJhIwALLDA4EAsa/hvPAAA
LA BUILD! (Tested it a bit, works pretty well, nothing too amazing.)

Ooooh challenge accepted ehhh gleeful hand rubbing. Love the spirit!

I didn’t quite agree with some of the traits/runes/amulet though so made some changes.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpPr1XxdLseNCbBFyZcRRfkq0xP2gAA-TJRHwAV2fIZZABnAAAPAAA

What do you think Twigifire? As Vee Wee and Chaith said, Alchemy is always better than Inventions and Elixir Infused bomb is generally not that great. I’ve also changed Stabilised Armour -> Protective Shield as per the post’s topic.

Yeah I was just making up for lack of stunbreak. My build was sort of thrown together quickly and I wanted to go heavy into inventions to see how it works (not great XD elixir infused bombs has always been pretty useless) Your build is much better XD

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Actually Vee Wee thinks Elixir Infused Bombs is really great for sustain! It’s just you have to go 30 Inventions to get it! Inventions is, like we covered already, the worst tree Engineers have! If Elixir Infused Bombs replaced that useless Smoke Bomb on disable grandmaster in the Explosives tree, I’d wager we’d see a lot more builds that focus on Bomb Kit!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

It’s only my limited experience as I don’t run either often but I prefer the Smoke Bomb trait over Elixir Infused bombs.

With the smoke bomb, I get hit with the first hit or two but then I am protected long enough to blast into a Stealth.

The Elixir Infused bombs require you to constantly stay in bomb kit and drop bombs for minor healing when you’d be much better off kiting away and shooting your enemy. I have a hunch that the extra sustain you feel is largely because of the +300 Toughness and Healing Power rather than the trait.

Wouldn’t say no to swapping the Smoke Bomb trait around with the Elixir Infused Bombs though.

Blackjacks.9856:

Shaogin.2679:

Vee Wee just trying to keep players that have never been ranked from steering newer engineers the wrong way is all.

Now, on topic, if you’re going to bunker a point, I’d say Stabilized Armor. For a more mobile build that can avoid much of the hard cc I’d say Protective Shield.

No he isn’t he is an annoying self important troll who holds his opinion over all others, even when he is wrong. This whole “Pro worship” culture of gaming really needs to stop, now.

I agree with you.
No matter how cute he tries to act on forum, in game attitude tells it all.
I didn’t even talk rudely in the first place.
He’s a self-important troll who holds his opinion over all others indeed, treated people with different opinion like kitten.

PS: We did win that match, but it’s quite obvious because he’s a in a 4-man premade team anyway.

PS2: I did try his build before (well, those build are so obvious that all the old engi used them all along), but find it harder to play than hybrid kit turret in unorganized team. (I play Team Q solo rather than playing Solo Q, and I do have a higher win rate in Team Q than in Solo Q by playing Team Q solo. (Rank 3xx on leaderboard )

PS3: That “you” in my sentence is not directly linking to Vee Wee, it’s just saying that someone should care more about home.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee doesn’t hold Vee Wee’s opinion above all others! Just not so good players! Like an Engineer who thinks going deep Inventions and Alchemy can produce a quality condition build! Or a turret Engineer who feeds his turrets to the enemy treb at mid and then whines about nobody being home when you should have been there!

And lol @ real Engineer builds being harder to play! Obviously! A real Engineer build is more than just setting turrets down and auto attacking! But Vee Wee can assure you these builds are lightyears ahead of useless turret builds!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Welp, vee wee, we had it before and I repeat it again:
turret builds are amongst the most effective engi builds in pvp.

yes, the offense is mediocre, but the short turret-cd’s, buffs they provide are perfect for a roamer to tip over fights on points.

My build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpdrVVx2KseNSiBNqUE6A8iCI6xth8C-TJhHwAPLDQZ/BAnAgDPAAA

What I do:
bounce between home and mid with the perma-swiftness I have (so much about zero mobility), drop supply-crate onto contested points where allies fight, drop my turrets where needed off point, clean condis and heal allies for mayor amounts, spam condis on acceptable amounts and disrupt enemies as good as I can with FT overcharge and pistol #3, while disrupting their own regen/heals with pistol #2 / EG #3.
With shield I can prevent stomps on allies quite easily, and also rezz them myself while blinding everybody around.
Once the point is saved, I pack my turrets and settle on to the next fight.

Yes, bunkering down with turrets on one point for the whole match is kittened, but with this build I can 1v1 every bunker-build I’ve met so far pretty fast, so invading far and decapping it / keeping it decapped/capped is not a problem, and I sustain long enough against most zerker builds to have allies respawned and rejoined on the point.

I still get not your hate.
You complain about zero offense on turrets, while the condi-pressure on this build is actually acceptable, while the power-dmg / cc / soft-cc brings all the support / utility you’ll ever need.

I have lots and lots of condi-cleaning, perma-swiftness, survivability for ages AND offensive capabilities that are unmatched by every single other bunker build out there.

And guess what, I play engi since 2 years as well, ran basically all the engi builds you could imagine, so our experience in pvp is the same. And no, the only thing that splits turret builds from those you deem as “real” is higher dps/wider versatility, being more squishy and requiring higher apm, without gaining anything in terms of 1vx capability/support, compared to turret-builds.

People like you are just angry that a frekkin-easy-to-play build performs as good / excels against conservative builds, given that both players behind them share the same experience and knowledge.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Whatever you say my frand! Turret Engis only work well in low rated games and hotjoins! If you see any successful high level turret Engis let me know! I’ll change my stance then! But let me save you the trouble and tell you that out of the thousands of Engineers in this game, there are literally 0 high level turret Engineers! The reason is obvious! Turret builds are godawful and only work against people bad at this game! They are easily countered, have a buttload of weaknesses, etc etc etc. Vee Wee can only repeat the same things for so long before Vee Wee gets tired! People just have to learn for themselves! Vee Wee learned real quick that turret builds are pooptastic! Some people just learn slower than others Vee Wee guesses!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I dont like the long cooldown on protective shield.. 20 sec is a lot for a 3 sec dmg reduction. I would pick stabalized armour over protective shield simply because stability is our weakness and offers a constant effect, and ppl know this. Projection injection is much better with a 5 sec cooldown.

I always loved alchemy traitline, but the grandmaster traits in Alchemy dont seem all that good. Experimental turrets only shines in a pure turret build, hgh only in an pure elixer build and automated response is a joke. Inventions have either elixer infused boms wich is an ok trait indeed. Or again something that focusses on full turret builds.

ellesee.8297:

But let me save you the trouble and tell you that out of the thousands of Engineers in this game, there are literally 0 high level turret Engineers!

Cite needed.
the rest of your post was the usual anecdotal fallacies and hatespeech that you like to spill so often about builds/concepts you personally don’t like for whatever reasons, while also dodging the point entirely.

You claim to know about every single match on high tier, claim to know every single engineer playing on high tier and therefore ultimately claim to have the authority to judge something factual and objectively.
At least address the point properly next time, because you provided as much to the argument as me with this post.

To give you this, this game is full of scrubs that know no better, therefore its natural to find many engis that you can steamroll over easily. and since turrets are easy to play you will of course find many beginners/scrubs on these builds. But they would have not performed better on any other build, maybe even worse, while the other side of the medal is filled with skilled engis that wreck groups of other skilled players with turrets.
Just because a small minority of offended “pros” feels uncomfortable with giving up so much keys on the piano, it does not decrease the effectiveness of the build in the slightest. get that into your head.

This matter of whether there are 0 turret engineers in high level play is difficult to solve, but if you were to rather ask “how many professional tournament players use turret builds”, then the matter could be partially settled by looking at how many engineers played turret builds in the latest tournament, and how successful they were.

In most of the matches I saw, they were either P/S rabid 2Kit, or rifle celestial 2Kit, but I didn’t see all of the matches. I thought I saw one turret build, but I can’t remember if they were successful.

As for the actual question, I prefer stabilized armor. Stun breaks are not something the engineer has easy access to all the time (granted, we have it easier than necromancers). Having the longer-duration defense when CC’d is a little more useful to me.

Helo frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee does indeed know all of the high level Engineers! The 3 ToL winning Engi players, to the really, really, really, good Engineers that Vee Wee encounters in arenas, to the Mistpedia tournament Engi players! The universal consensus is that turret builds are subpar! Take all of their words for it if you do not trust Vee Wee’s word! Vee Wee congratulates you on winning a few solo/team arena games with turret Engi but Vee Wee guarantees you if you face anyone competent you will get your butt kicked!

To prove Vee Wee and every other high level Engineer wrong, simply form a team that has synergy with a turret Engineer and beat good teams! Then Vee Wee will say, “OK this Arantheal guy proved turret Engineers are good!” Vee Wee is very reasonable!

Vee Wee is sorry you did not find Vee Wee’s post detailed enough for you but Vee Wee has already outlined why turret Engis, and the Inventions tree in general, is just not so good! Vee Wee is tired of explaining! If you want a more detailed response just scan the Guild Warts 2 4ums and you are sure to find more in depth reasonings on why turret builds are poopy scoopy!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Arantheal.7396:

ellesee.8297:

But let me save you the trouble and tell you that out of the thousands of Engineers in this game, there are literally 0 high level turret Engineers!

Cite needed.
the rest of your post was the usual anecdotal fallacies and hatespeech that you like to spill so often about builds/concepts you personally don’t like for whatever reasons, while also dodging the point entirely.

Not really, You talk of fallacies but don’t seem to understand them or the burden of proof, you also claim veewee used hatespeech, which is plain false and a fallacy called Ad Hominem. You attack the person’s character, rather than the argument. Furthermore, Veewee’s argument is that no high-level players use turret builds because they’re too flawed compared to other builds and that the inventions line simply is subpat compared to other traitlines. Veewee is talking from personal experience, involving time spent building and experimenting with numerous builds. Hell, VeeWee even managed to get a decent gadget build going. He and the other high-level players don’t just make up builds and decide that they work or not. Nor is the general consensus reached soley on faith. It is the result off avid gamers, spending countless hours building and experimenting to find the optimum builds for these areas of play.

Now you’re asking Veewee to prove that turret engis are bad, but you won’t accept the experience of veewee and others at the top-tiers of competetive play, who have tried these builds and found them lacking. You’re asking veewee to prove a negative, which is impossible.

Furthermore you’re committing a fallacy of shifting the burden of proof. You claim that Turret builds and the inventions line are good and can compete at top-tier. This claim is possible to demonstrate, it’s a positive claim and therfor carries a burden of proof. The onus is on you to demonstrate that this is the case, yet you want veewee to demonstrate that the claim is false before you change your position. Shifting the burden of proof. You should be easily able to demonstrate the “top-tier turret” claim, by showing us some top-tier turret build users. As Veewee challenged you to do, get a team together and win tournaments.

Arantheal.7396:

You claim to know about every single match on high tier, claim to know every single engineer playing on high tier and therefore ultimately claim to have the authority to judge something factual and objectively.

He does, within his sphere of experience as a top-tier player. He has authority of demonstrable experience, evidenced by the leaderboards and tournament wins.

Arantheal.7396:

To give you this, this game is full of scrubs that know no better, therefore its natural to find many engis that you can steamroll over easily. and since turrets are easy to play you will of course find many beginners/scrubs on these builds.

That’s a no True Scotsman fallacy: “Of course they lost they weren’t REAL turret build players, just people copying”.

Arantheal.7396:

But they would have not performed better on any other build, maybe even worse, while the other side of the medal is filled with skilled engis that wreck groups of other skilled players with turrets.

Baseless assertion backed up with an undemonstrated claim.

Arantheal.7396:

Just because a small minority of offended “pros” feels uncomfortable with giving up so much keys on the piano, it does not decrease the effectiveness of the build in the slightest.

That’s a fallacy called a “Strawman argument”. Veewee hasn’t claimed that turrets aren’t effective because “fewer buttons”. He has pointed out that top-tier players don’t use turret builds because they’ve found them to be less effective. This is a fact, though you can argue that those players are wrong. You should also be able to demonstrate that they are wrong.

Arantheal.7396:

get that into your head.

Why? Because you say so? So far you haven’t demonstrated it. Asserting that you’re right, doesn’t mean you are right. You need to demonstrate that claim.

wolfyrik.2017:

Not really, You talk of fallacies but don’t seem to understand them or the burden of proof, you also claim veewee used hatespeech, which is plain false and a fallacy called Ad Hominem. You attack the person’s character, rather than the argument.

No. He is right. He did indeed use hate speech. In a thread with the actual topic on the matter veewee specifically stated that if you used a turret build you were a bad person.

He continues to go out of his way to derail this thread to a bash turret build threads when it is a thread about Protective Shield vs Stabilised Armour.

I hardly call it fallacy when he has made comments in multiple threads, directly insulting players for a build preference, as well as using profanity to fling insults on the matter at players in game. There have been multiple screen shots of his map chat insults and attacks. I hardly call it fallacy when there is video and pictorial proof.

So whats your opinion on the actual topic of Protective Shield vs Stabilized Armour? Are you going to share your perspective of the subject matter of thread, or are you simply here to perpetuate breaking the forums CoC in order to replicate your mentor in the same endeavor of thread derailing.