Guild Wars 2

Hi guys. Recently many ppl ask me what build I am using in general PvE and non-zerk dungeon runs. Basicly since feature patch I use this build with little tweaks and its great in multiple ways. Massive damage, decent survability and great support in one build. I am sure lots of you using something simillar but I dont saw here anything like it so..:-)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRiDABL8AAWZ/BCVCqp6PAcgAQ4ACQxFAgLlf/pjIAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8SBAzyI-e

Why Celestial is so good.
I heard lots of ppl lately throwing dirt on Celestial on how bad its in PvE compare to Berserk because it has only half of power ect and so on. Well wrong. Those guys dont realize damage wise are raw stats on gear only quite minor part of actual dps. You need calculate with Might, Vulnerability, traits, runes, sigils, food, class buffs ect. So when we compare Zerk vs Celest its not 50% dps loss its barely 16%. In exchange for that you get great survability and healing power boost what opening support possibilities while still outputting massive dmg.

So what this build can do
- Perma 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability, massive dmg output
- Great survability compare to dps
- Stacking might or stealth for party via blasts
- Very decent party healing and condi removing via Healing Turret and Elixir Gun.
- Great fo dung speed runs. You can use Zerk gear instead but trust me your zerk buddies dont even notice you not wearing Zerk:-P
- Great for solo farming (T6 mats for example)

WTF Condi duration food in PvE?
Yes thats right. With +100 power food you will see bigger numbers but trust me if you manage keep 25 stack of vulnerability overall damage of whole party will much bigger than you get from +100 power food. Also while solo condi are big part of your damage and its help melt mobs even faster.

Rotation and stuff
- Rotation is easy: Blunderbuss-> Jump Shot -> Shrapnel Greande -> Freeze Grenade -> Fire Bomb -> Acid Bomb -> spam Bomb (#1) repeat. Toolbelt skills everytime they are ready
- Might stacking is pretty easy basicly you will get Might as byproduct of rotation just dont forget use Healing Turret/Med Kit swap every 10s
- You can boost your stealth duration up to like 16s if you use Shield and Thumper Turret instead Greanders for smoke blast (7 blasts in total 8 if you use Elite)

Modifications and tips
Different situations will need small modifications to build to be even more effective
- In dungeons if someone else stacking might switch Enhanced Performance for Explosive Powder and weapon for another rifle with Night and Bloodlust sigils.
- For solo farming is best change Moddified Ammunition for Bunker Down. Its significantly increase your dps while kiting smartly.
- While soloing is better switch Healing Turret for Med Kit its much better for stacking might fast.

Enjoy:-)

Sounds good, I’m kind of looking for something like this.

Rozbuska.5263:

Why Celestial is so good.
I heard lots of ppl lately throwing dirt on Celestial on how bad its in PvE compare to Berserk because it has only half of power ect and so on. Well wrong. Those guys dont realize damage wise are raw stats on gear only quite minor part of actual dps. You need calculate with Might, Vulnerability, traits, runes, sigils, food, class buffs ect. So when we compare Zerk vs Celest its not 50% dps loss its barely 16%. In exchange for that you get great survability and healing power boost what opening support possibilities while still outputting massive dmg.

yeah but you can just use the same build, dodge better, and do more damage with zerk and stuff will die faster

You never dodge everything. In dungeons ok its possible but for example high lvl fractals try survive lvl 49 grubs on fire shaman in zerk:-) In celest you can easily:-)

fractals is a different matter entirely from dungeons and solo exploration/farming…

insanemaniac.2456:

fractals is a different matter entirely from dungeons and solo exploration/farming…

I know but idea of this build and gear is to have one great build for all PvE situations. It quite hard for our class to have one buld and set of gear for everything and this works pretty well:-)

Its 100% my build. Crazy good one.

Rozbuska.5263:

Hi guys. Recently many ppl ask me what build I am using in general PvE and non-zerk dungeon runs. Basicly since feature patch I use this build with little tweaks and its great in multiple ways. Massive damage, decent survability and great support in one build. I am sure lots of you using something simillar but I dont saw here anything like it so..:-)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRiDABL8AAWZ/BCVCqp6PAcgAQ4ACQxFAgLlf/pjIAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8SBAzyI-e

Why Celestial is so good.
I heard lots of ppl lately throwing dirt on Celestial on how bad its in PvE compare to Berserk because it has only half of power ect and so on. Well wrong. Those guys dont realize damage wise are raw stats on gear only quite minor part of actual dps. You need calculate with Might, Vulnerability, traits, runes, sigils, food, class buffs ect. So when we compare Zerk vs Celest its not 50% dps loss its barely 16%. In exchange for that you get great survability and healing power boost what opening support possibilities while still outputting massive dmg.

So what this build can do
- Perma 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability, massive dmg output
- Great survability compare to dps
- Stacking might or stealth for party via blasts
- Very decent party healing and condi removing via Healing Turret and Elixir Gun.
- Great fo dung speed runs. You can use Zerk gear instead but trust me your zerk buddies dont even notice you not wearing Zerk:-P
- Great for solo farming (T6 mats for example)

WTF Condi duration food in PvE?
Yes thats right. With +100 power food you will see bigger numbers but trust me if you manage keep 25 stack of vulnerability overall damage of whole party will much bigger than you get from +100 power food. Also while solo condi are big part of your damage and its help melt mobs even faster.

Rotation and stuff
- Rotation is easy: Blunderbuss-> Jump Shot -> Shrapnel Greande -> Freeze Grenade -> Fire Bomb -> Acid Bomb -> spam Bomb (#1) repeat. Toolbelt skills everytime they are ready
- Might stacking is pretty easy basicly you will get Might as byproduct of rotation just dont forget use Healing Turret/Med Kit swap every 10s
- You can boost your stealth duration up to like 16s if you use Shield and Thumper Turret instead Greanders for smoke blast (7 blasts in total 8 if you use Elite)

Modifications and tips
Different situations will need small modifications to build to be even more effective
- In dungeons if someone else stacking might switch Enhanced Performance for Explosive Powder and weapon for another rifle with Night and Bloodlust sigils.
- For solo farming is best change Moddified Ammunition for Bunker Down. Its significantly increase your dps while kiting smartly.
- While soloing is better switch Healing Turret for Med Kit its much better for stacking might fast.

Enjoy:-)

I would like to see the math
How does it compare to zerk gear and only loss barely16% dps?

here is the link for both gears

Celestial:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRROwADV/Bw+DxU+RVHRWlgkCAmxAA-e

zerk:
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRiDABL8AAWZ/BCVCqp6PAcgAQ4ACQxFAgLlf/pjIAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8SBAzyI-e

I am excitied for Celestial build but not really sure about the 16% dps off thing…
thank you very much!

because when you have 20-25 might it (relatively) doesnt matter what gear you use

Rozbuska.5263:

You never dodge everything. In dungeons ok its possible but for example high lvl fractals try survive lvl 49 grubs on fire shaman in zerk:-) In celest you can easily:-)

Show vid of you facetanking Fractals 49 grubs in Celestial please.

To be fair, most builds look good when you deck the calculator out in full ascended and infusions

Looks good though.

Yazeed.4971:

I am excitied for Celestial build but not really sure about the 16% dps off thing…
thank you very much!

You need to calculate with might, vulnerability, food, banners, sigils runes ect.

insanemaniac.2456:

because when you have 20-25 might it (relatively) doesnt matter what gear you use

That’s a good simplification. Let’s say Celestial armor has 200 less power than Zerker armor (and in reality it’s less than that)…

If your total power is 1000 with Zerkers, then just in gear you’re losing 20% power if you switched to Celestial. If you have 2000 power, then it’s just a 10% loss in power. If you’re stacking might and get up to 3000 power, then it’s only 6.7%. The more power you have, the less a couple hundred makes a difference. That’s just basic math.

However vulnerability hurts Celestial rather than helps it, and I don’t know if “calculate it against vulnerability too” was meant to help Celestial or not. If you can do 1000 DPS in Zerker gear normally, let’s say that goes up by 25% to 1250 DPS against a target with 25 stacks of vulnerability. In Celestial gear let’s say you can do 900 DPS normally. Against the 25 stacks of vulnerability you can now do 1125. Where you were once only 100 DPS behind your Zerker gear, now you are 125 DPS behind. The Zerker gear gets a larger bonus from vulnerability because it has more damage to multiply. This is also basic math.

So basically the meta build with celestial gear and a dumb trait replacing explosive powder. Sigil choice is debatable I guess. Should I make a “new” build with 66002 but with rabid gear and call it “pve condition facetank awesomeness build”? At least it would use aristocracy runes so it would be kinda different.
I mean I understand the desire to spice it up or whatever but is there a point to it really?

Vulnerability has zero effect on the relative strength (as in +x% dmg) of Zerker vs. Celestial: 125 from 1250 is still 10%. This is also basic math and is valid for any other damage increase in % (sigils, scholar runes, frost spirit etc.).

Only the absolute difference in power, precision, ferocity and to a lesser extent condition damage matters.

Full ascended celestial gear gives 501 to all stats, Zerker gives 1087 power, 745 precision and ferocity. So the difference is +501 condition damage, -586 power, -244 precision and ferocity.
On top of that come trait bonuses, runes, sigils, infusions, food, might stacks, group bonuses (Banners, Empower Allies, Spotter).

A fully decked out and buffed 6/6/0/0/2 zerker engie has:
4185 power
2281 precision (69.5 % base crit chance, 89.5% with fury)
1185 ferocity (229% crit damage)
1345 condition damage

The values for a celestial engie are:
3649 power
2037 precision (58% base crit chance, 78% with fury)
941 ferocity (213% crit damage)
1846 condition damage

Let us assume a non-crit hit from the zerker engie equals 1000 damage. Out of 1000 hits, 895 would crit for 2290 damage, 105 would hit for 1000. This equals an average hit of 2155.
The celestial engies non-crit hits for 872. Out of 1000 hits, 780 would crit for 1857 damage, 220 would hit for 872. This equals an average hit of 1640 or approximately 24% less direct damage.

Now if you take into account the 37% higher condition damage value and the fact that it is much easier to maintain the scholar bonus in celestial gear, this difference will be somewhat lessened, but it is hard to calculate. I would estimate something between 15 and 20%.

Vulnerability absolutely does give more to the Berserker than it does the Celestial. The more damage you do, the more percent boosts are going to give you.

Sure it’s the same percentage for each, but you don’t kill stuff with percentages. You kill them with the amount of damage you do, and Berserkers get more damage from Vulnerability than Celestials do.

Celestial also pushes total DPS more towards bleeds so even in terms of percentages Celestial is less.

Rozbuska.5263:

Yazeed.4971:

I am excitied for Celestial build but not really sure about the 16% dps off thing…
thank you very much!

You need to calculate with might, vulnerability, food, banners, sigils runes ect.

plz do the calculation, since it’s your topic, u must know better than other people!

i just assume both Celestial and Zerk build use exactly the same buff, traits and skill…

so the only different is GEAR…

However, Zerk build must get more Might than Celestial build since zerk has higher critical chance…

so… what does lead ur conclusion to " only loss 16% dps"?

I posted the wrong link last time, my apology.

here is the right link:

Celestial:
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRiDABL8AAWZ/BCVCqp6PAcgAQ4ACQxFAgLlf/pjIAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8SBAzyI-e

Zerk:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TxRGABAcBAGS5XCPAAQ2fgMdAAq+jUKBDAcA87vBgzP/8zP/8u+3f/93fLFAMLjA-e

looking forward to see the answer!
thanks a lot!

Adamantium.3682:

insanemaniac.2456:

because when you have 20-25 might it (relatively) doesnt matter what gear you use

That’s a good simplification. Let’s say Celestial armor has 200 less power than Zerker armor (and in reality it’s less than that)…

If your total power is 1000 with Zerkers, then just in gear you’re losing 20% power if you switched to Celestial. If you have 2000 power, then it’s just a 10% loss in power. If you’re stacking might and get up to 3000 power, then it’s only 6.7%. The more power you have, the less a couple hundred makes a difference. That’s just basic math.

However vulnerability hurts Celestial rather than helps it, and I don’t know if “calculate it against vulnerability too” was meant to help Celestial or not. If you can do 1000 DPS in Zerker gear normally, let’s say that goes up by 25% to 1250 DPS against a target with 25 stacks of vulnerability. In Celestial gear let’s say you can do 900 DPS normally. Against the 25 stacks of vulnerability you can now do 1125. Where you were once only 100 DPS behind your Zerker gear, now you are 125 DPS behind. The Zerker gear gets a larger bonus from vulnerability because it has more damage to multiply. This is also basic math.

He said the vulnerability is to help the party.

Yazeed.4971:

Rozbuska.5263:

Yazeed.4971:

I am excitied for Celestial build but not really sure about the 16% dps off thing…
thank you very much!

You need to calculate with might, vulnerability, food, banners, sigils runes ect.

plz do the calculation, since it’s your topic, u must know better than other people!

i just assume both Celestial and Zerk build use exactly the same buff, traits and skill…

so the only different is GEAR…

However, Zerk build must get more Might than Celestial build since zerk has higher critical chance…

so… what does lead ur conclusion to " only loss 16% dps"?

I posted the wrong link last time, my apology.

here is the right link:

Celestial:
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TRiDABL8AAWZ/BCVCqp6PAcgAQ4ACQxFAgLlf/pjIAwBwv/G47v58zP/8zPvrP/8zP/8SBAzyI-e

Zerk:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQFAUlUUpPrlYxdLseNicBNqrA6Okhx+5AszeC-TxRGABAcBAGS5XCPAAQ2fgMdAAq+jUKBDAcA87vBgzP/8zP/8u+3f/93fLFAMLjA-e

looking forward to see the answer!
thanks a lot!

Zerk has bit higher crit dmg and crit chance (with fury and banner chance doest matter much) but celest has higher condi dmg so its made it pretty much even. Might has fixed value.

I’ve played with with both in the past and have decided that Zerker is easily the better choice. If you play better – aka dodging / CCing mobs into the wall between damaging attacks – you’re rewarded more with higher damage.

What many here who are proponents of celestial in PvE (and don’t get me wrong, I have a full Wupwup armor set as well as a full Zojja’s armor set) do not realize is that speed clears in PvE are the meta, and condition damage is negligible there. It takes time to stack up your bleeds. Rotations are important and the highest damaging build out there is simply 66002 with nades/bombs/mine. Power damage as of right now king over condition in PvE, and a difference of 500 power is massive – moreso than 500 additional condition damage will be able to balance out.

I don’t think anybody here denies that Berserker is the best choice for raw damage.
The question was just by how much Zerker beats celestial.

In the best case scenario for celestial (highest possible power/precision/ferocity bonus from “outside” the gear) it gives 24% less direct damage.
With a smaller bonus this difference will be even bigger: e.g. with no stacking sigil, dungeon potion & condi duration food, strength runes and no buffs, celestial’s direct damage is 32% lower.

The lower effective hp (-40% compared to celestial) and condition damage of Zerker gear will lower this difference, just by how much is hard to calculate.
Conditions need to be stacked up first, take time to do damage and can be overwritten by other party members. Effective group play (reflects, blinds, aegis, positioning) makes the higher hp obsolete in many cases.

In my opinion celestial gives the best balance between damage and toughness, making it the ideal engi gear for PvP/WvW.

PvE at the moment does not offer enough reward for toughness/vitality/heal stacking. Even after the crit damage nerf, pure direct DPS is still king, making Zerker the best choice.

P.S.: Unless the boon stripping is needed, Acid Bomb gives better damage than Mines (even if traited) for any fights that last at least 5 seconds, along with all the utility of EG.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

I don’t think anybody here denies that Berserker is the best choice for raw damage.
The question was just by how much Zerker beats celestial.

In the best case scenario for celestial (highest possible power/precision/ferocity bonus from “outside” the gear) it gives 24% less direct damage.
With a smaller bonus this difference will be even bigger: e.g. with no stacking sigil, dungeon potion & condi duration food, strength runes and no buffs, celestial’s direct damage is 32% lower.

The lower effective hp (-40% compared to celestial) and condition damage of Zerker gear will lower this difference, just by how much is hard to calculate.
Conditions need to be stacked up first, take time to do damage and can be overwritten by other party members. Effective group play (reflects, blinds, aegis, positioning) makes the higher hp obsolete in many cases.

In my opinion celestial gives the best balance between damage and toughness, making it the ideal engi gear for PvP/WvW.

PvE at the moment does not offer enough reward for toughness/vitality/heal stacking. Even after the crit damage nerf, pure direct DPS is still king, making Zerker the best choice.

P.S.: Unless the boon stripping is needed, Acid Bomb gives better damage than Mines (even if traited) for any fights that last at least 5 seconds, along with all the utility of EG.

According to my spreadsheet, an all-buffs grenades Engie in zerk with Strength Runes is 11433 DPS. Replace zerk with celestial and you get 9635 DPS. Knight is 8852 btw. That gap is in part because of the bleed scaling though, if you use bombs like OP does it becomes 11337 vs 9152 which is a bigger gap. If you also cut out buffs like might and banners the gap becomes even bigger.

Can’t see the link anymore. the site is not working i think

They announce temporary shutdown