Guild Wars 2

Maybe not the best place to ask, since this sub-forum is browsed by fans of the profession, but still…

Probably a combination of things:
At launch, Engineer was looked at as a complex class with a lot of buttons to press and things were kinda out of tune when it came to damage. A lot of the effects that came from Elixirs were based on RNG and had a cast time before use. Turrets were A LOT worse. Kits didn’t scale with your weapon damage nor benefit from your weapon sigils. Swapping kits didn’t count as a weapon swap for the purpose of sigils. The list goes on.

On top of that, the profession was widely looked at as the one that needs to press “twice as many buttons to get half of the effects of everyone else.” Healing Turret required three button presses to be really effective. Rocket Boots used to knock you backwards, so Engineer players needed to hotbind the “Turn Around” key so that it would send them forward. Skill ceiling was high just based on understanding what you wanted to use at a given time and many of our “easy-to-utilize” builds and tactics were nerfed swiftly, like 100 Nades.

We also didn’t have much of a “purpose” when it came to ANY of the game modes. Dungeon groups had little room for an Engi and the PvP Engineer had one of the highest skill ceilings based on just how convoluted it was to be effective. Roaming WvW Engineers was probably the best we had but it’s likely that it was dominated by a few really good Engis early in the game.

Anyway, at this point, all that’s turned around. I would argue that Thieves are currently in the same spot that we were in at launch (Karma’s a real kitten). Engis are condition damage powerhouses and have some really neat utility that can be swapped in and out for PvE. We also have a decent PvP presence. Not too sure on WvW’s front but you hear about those guys every now and then.

We have a clear usefulness now that people can appreciate, I just think people don’t feel like making Engineers because of it. We had quite the slow start over the past few years.

Lots of extra key binds is what keeps me from fully enjoying the class. Some love the flexibility but in an action MMO too many “options” means a lot of skill/cooldown juggling to squeeze the power out of a class.

The Scrapper can streamline some of this but ultimately the class doesn’t do anything particularly better than classes with more straight forward game play.

because you cant play it with one finger and your face.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

A major, major part in my opinion, is just because it is so unusual in a fantasyish rpg/mmorpg; typically things like warrior, wizard, paladin (or the like such as guardians), thieves or assassins always has a solid playerbase regardless of its balance or gameplay.

But also because it’s more complex than most once you get into kits.

is it still least played? got some recent numbers?

Nilix.2170:

I would argue that Thieves are currently in the same spot that we were in at launch (Karma’s a real kitten).

Hahahah

Boy, does that bring back memories! I’ve run Engi since day one — and those Thieves could drop 21k of damage on you before you knew they were even there!

And repairs used to cost money, which no one really had at the time….

It doesn’t seem like the least played.

Engineeer is my favorite class, people like different things. I hear people that keep saying “rotation” and I just laugh. Anyhow, with engi you can do pretty much anything; I solo’d scale 50 fractal a few days ago just to see if I could do it. They’re good for pretty much anything, so long as you understand how the class works.

medium armor is horrendous, pistols and rifles look cool but you never get to see them, instead you hold our ugly kits.

This alone turns people off, Ranger and Thief are popular historically from all types of other games and lores, so they still attract people despite the ugly armor, but engi has no saving grace.

No weapon swap is obvious, no melee (until now) forever, no camping, too difficult to pick up, seems weak at first glace, seems slow at first glance, has very little cool about it, legendaries have no effect on basically any of their skills, wasnt meta in pve content for a very long time despite always being one of the higher dps classes, it just wasnt “required”.

People LOVE dual pistols (on thief, and it sucks) yet its amazing on engi, but its condi and the rotation turns people off.

Playing at medium range feels weird to people, people want to rush in or be at max range.

the list goes on

Azure.8670:

Playing at medium range feels weird to people, people want to rush in or be at max range.

While I love Engi, and don’t play anything else, it does require an active play style. To be successful you must learn to fight from from all three ranges: Maximum > Medium > Melee > Medium > Maxium. And Engi are more suited to do this than any other profession in the game. We always have the right tool for the situation.

Plus it’s funny! Belt buckles that fire bullets. Drop nails to slow people down. Personal battering Rams. Acid Bombs. Rocket Boots. Wack people with pry bars. I enjoy it for the humor as much as the challenge.

I think one of the contributing factors may be/have been the dominance of grenades. Some people really enjoy the playstyle, but for many, a kit that is so reliant on ground-targeting to be effective is tiring, and it gets a little boring when each skill feels like it’s doing the same thing (intellectually I know that each grenade skill does something different, but it still feels like you’re doing the same thing just with different conditions and damage numbers attached).

If the grenades were just one kit among many, this would be one thing – the rest of the profession offers a lot of opportunities to do fun things. The problem, however, is that for a lot of Guild Wars 2’s lifespan, any build that does not include grenades has been noticeably subpar when compared either to grenades or to other professions. So for players who don’t like how grenades work…well, the engineer becomes something that’s fun to play for less serious stuff occasionally, but it’s hard for engineer to become a go-to character for someone who doesn’t like grenades.

Particularly since the next-best kits have similar problems (bomb kit isn’t ground-targeted but has a similar feeling of doing the same thing, although the fire and smoke fields help there, and the new mortar kit is basically a grenade launcher that creates fields).

There are a lot of fun builds you can make that don’t use these, but… they’re generally not the things you want to take into high-end content.

Engie is being taken in the highest amount right now in raids. What is dis post about.

I’ve seen no shortage in engineers anywhere, and I play all gamemodes. Perhaps it’s just the complexity of having multiple kits which makes people stay away from them, but they definitely have one of the most fun ways to play (Only reason I even bother with PvE is because of Engi being fun in it). PvP they are crazy on the condi and even on power, so celestial engi is in a great spot. Really, the least played one I see are Warriors or Thieves…

Because Engineers have bugs that haven’t been fixed for 3 years, our dev never posts in the forum, Legendaries aren’t even worth it because of our kits, etc…

I only started to play this game because of Engineers. After FF14 I wanted something off of the mainstream BS and when I saw an Asuran engineer I bought the game and pre-ordered HoT. Ingame, I rarely see any Engineer and I am kinda glad for some reason. In my guild with like 50 guys there are two engineers; one is me.

All the cons (when it comes to gameplay) was the reason to play it. Throwing grenades at rabbits its the most satisfying thing! Plus it fits my Asura pretty well; tinkering and building / engineering stuff and the operation of those weapons/tools in order to compenstate for physical size and strenght.

Without Engineer, I’d probably not playing and spending money for Gems.

pretty sure that with no numbers this thread prolly just needs to die. especially considering engi’s place in raids (condi), open world (sneak), fractals/dungeons (jack of all trades), pvp (wts had engis), and wvw roaming.

All other classes look cool, and known among many fantasy books and games under a similar name. In the world of magic, engi feels absurd in the beginning for some fantasy lovers like me. I have my ele and want to play him all the time. Can I? No. Because of this stupid class called engineer.

I hate mechanization. I do not like technology in fantasy games. I really dislike steampunk. No visual on engi attracts me. The class lore is empty and there is literally no logical explanation why one would bring a flamethrower to a sword fight. All and all many of my friends think like this. But I love this silly class. I have not been able to play anything else for some time. Engineer is complex, needs you to act without thinking. No memorized rotation can save you. And you can literally do everything. Needs some time to get used to it. And like someone said, engineer needs a special mind set and a playstyle. It is batman in jla, it is a wizard in dnd, it is the guy silently saves the day but never really cared about it in the movies.

This is my reason why i play engineer and my observations, so bare with me.

I play engineer because it is the most fun in terms of “cool abilities” and i also love scrapper for having support gyros and a support rez class mechanics.

I don’t mind also being a decent damage dealer – in the form of single target conditions, or multi target power damage.

But what i notice a lot of people don’t like with engineer is – they are hard to face stomp as, in spvp and duels. Most people find it too challenging or uninteresting to be an engineer in Pvp.

I am not saying engineer are weak, or need a buff but – I know as an engineer i cannot easily go on a killing spree in solo q or with a party but i depend on my allies to carry me in game. I also focus more on cc and healing and doing fields and controlling objectives like the sky hammer in that air map, or bunkering a capping point.

I know people who play ele and warrior or guardian tell me “they hate capping points” and would rather have an “arena or kill fest” then do objectives. I know people play other professions because they are better at killing more efficiently and engineer’s play style and skills take “more work to achieve similar killing power”.

But yea that’s my opinion, i might be wrong, but i enjoy engineer in pve more than spvp. But wpvp is really fun, both in the normal wpvp, and in edge of the mists.

I play engineer for the non meta skills and non meta play style instead of pure aggressive carry role in spvp. That’s just my style.

This. Brilliant post, I +1’d. I have an Asuran engi and have loads of fun. Also some very fun roaming engi’s out there, like Koroshi and Wolfineer – bring some epic’ness to the prof.

Zedek.8932:

I only started to play this game because of Engineers. … Throwing grenades at rabbits its the most satisfying thing! ….

Probably the difficulty of playing the class to it’s most potential compared to the other classes.

With that said though, it’s currently the highest parsing class in game with the viper/sinister build.

I do see less engies than other professions. Raids have created a demand, because of the condi dps, and many have dusted off their engis for now.

Personally I:
– dislike seampunk.
– think bomb kit is silly: place a bomb at my feet; reaaly?…
– too many buttons

Hawks.5736:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

i generally just start with step 48, way more fun to play that way (though slightly less effective)

zxstanyxz.8769:

Hawks.5736:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

i generally just start with step 48, way more fun to play that way (though slightly less effective)

“optimal dps rotation” ye right … and then part time quickness and alacrity kicks in

I quit playing engi because it hurts.

No, really. It isn’t anything wrong with the class. First class I ever played. I’ve vouched since launch that Engis are one of the best classes in the game, if not the best. But it hurts my wrists to play it effectively. Playing an engi is like playing Mozart on the keyboard. After so many days of my hands aching after playing engi, I had to drop the class.

As for why other people don’t play it… I imagine it is because the engineer lacks history. The thing with most classes (warrior, ranger, guardian, elementalist, etc) is that they have ties to historical archetypes in the genre. Paladins, wizards, assassins, druids, etc. But the engineer is a steampunk themed class that doesn’t have as much as history to it. In the fantasy genre, the smart guy is usually a wizard of some kind. The Engi is adopted into the genius role later, where everyone already looks to walking sticks for know-how.

This combines with a second thing: the engi is hard. It is hard to learn, it is hard to play. You can forget about that "max DPS’ rotation in metabuilds, as it basically boils down to “use skills when off cooldown, prioritizing high damage first”. But, you still have to learn how to swiftly switch between kits fast enough to use clutch skills when needed, as well as keep track of multiple cooldowns when going for damage. Its something I say often, and it holds true: The engi takes two button presses where other classes take 1 to do the same action. This requires a familiarity with the class that is much higher.

So, combine no real history and the highest barrier to entry out of any class, and you get a wall that most players aren’t sure they even want to cross. But to anyone considering engi who doesn’t have a history of wrist problems due to past career choices: it is worth it. The Engi is totally worth it. You can take them anywhere, do anything. There is no problem you can’t solve as an Engi.

Mostly because it’s a hard class to really master and, for most of the game, the engie hasn’t had the payoff which made it feel worth the time it takes to learn it.

Also, when Engies WERE on top of the meta, it was usually for just one or two builds (Anyone remember the ridiculously powerful Alchemy builds?) rather than for overall being a solid class.

Lastly, people always got upset at how underwhelming Turrets were, as well as how easy they were to kill.

Even though my pve main is an engi, it honestly doesn’t ‘show off’ as well as other professions. Nor does it mentally excite with the whole ‘dressing up a character to roleplay to oneself’ aspect.

I play engineer because the amount of improvisation you have to do is completely asinine, and I love it. You have a kit for pretty much every situation.

Besides that, I feel like Batman and his omni-tool belt.

“Beware my crotch! It fires BULLETS!”

You all forget the main thing that make people look at engineer with disgust:
KITS BACKPACK !

:D

Cures.7451:

because you cant play it with one finger and your face.

Would have to agree.

Most people want what’s least complicated to be successful. Just look at the real world and you’ll see a lot of similarities – think escalators, automatic sprinklers, Swiffer, etc. If it’s easy it sells, people are lazy.

Less people enjoy doing extra work for the same results but some of us like it (just look at my signature and you’ll see my gluttony for punishment). Personally I have some of the most fun with Engi, although it’s not my favorite profession, but I love how engaging it feels. I’m never asleep at the wheel when I’m playing my Engi because I have to be right on top of my rotations or I’m toast. I’m not complaining that I’m putting in a lot of effort because I love that I need to, it feels more exciting than just mashing 2 buttons all the time. But, not everyone feels the same.

Personally I find Engi fun but I don’t play it often…

Because the Kit-Button DDR world championship type gameplay is mentally draining and detracts in general from relaxation or having a good time while playing.

Yes I can half kitten it or play something sub optimal but then I’m being sub optimal and I’d rather play another FUN class like Elementalist that still has lots of abilities and thinking involved but it’s a little more forgiving and less taxing on the old carpal canal.

Hawks.5736:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

Bwehehehe I actually learned almost the entire rotation.
I immensely enjoy how Engi azura was my very first early start character, playing him now and loving it! The cooldowns are quite nice to keep track of, keeps you on ur toes, and Anet => koodoes to that skill queueing! I love how in the raid I switch between kits/pistols all the time at top speed, I c a seeker coming I just queue up a frost granade at it, then queue up 3 more skills and I see my engi turn away from seeker yet those magic frost balls fly and hit it in the face.. So good.

And then mesmer comes with alacrity and u just go ‘omg everything off cooldown now go wild time’ XD

Versatility on this class is so good! And Condi dmg is a very nice break from straight dmg classes.

For new players I would recommend starting on a much simpler class, eg Warrior. That’s how I got into end game => get warrior to 80, get good gear, start running Dungeons/Fractals. I learned fast runs and value of meta from pugs, while not ever being kicked because getting great DPS from a warrior is easy.

Then once you understand things a bit better/know runs => try it on a more complicated class. Lots of fun, learning curves are quite enjoyable. There’s always plenty to learn still even when you think you know everything.

I don’t think steampunk is bad. Especially since this is not quite steampunk. This game covers a large aspect of different themese and styles and that spectrum makes me enjoy it much. What Squenix in FF14 did is actually steampunk. There is 5% of this “metal and neon light” setting and 95% is fantasy. In GW2 it feels the mix is far better (okay, coming from Rata Sum I am used to see technologic installations^^), it’s like 30%/70%.

I find nothing at this profession “odd” or “out of place”. Explosives and elixirs are not that far away from the game’s theme. I enjoy that the game is a 3rd person shooter to me. I love to randomly draw dual pistols just for the look of it. Placing turrets supports the idea of my little Asura to compensate for the lack of physical strenght.

Stuff like this just make love the game and the profession. The MedKit and Defibrilator are nice ideas off of the “I cast some random fancy magic, the screen turns bright and all are happy” sort of stuff from FF14 and other games. When I look at the traits and skills it just makes me smile. The nice mix of MMORPG, Fantasy and nice pew-pew. Plus I always wear top hats (or in this case: “Ringmaker hat”).. And that is only cool on Engineer ^^ If there would be a soap dispenser looking like the flame turet I’d buy it on the instant for my bathroom.

Or to have 4 different DoTs popping up. Poisoned, bleeding, dizzyed (or whatever that is English) and burning enemies. I see their HP bars being very low, stow my weapons, press V (to look behind me) and see them slowly suffering and doing barrel rolls while dying in flames while I walk away. I do not make insane damages and crap like that, but I have been Black Mage in FF14 and people were permanently thinking I had to be a DPS monster to the very limit and that pressure sucked so much that I like to be in the 2nd row here, firing mortar poison gas shells from a vintage point into the masses.

Sure, I am totally alienated this way of playing the game. Reading all the “look at this guide”, “do this and that” sort of people going to the very limit at everything they can. That’s cool for them, but I am here to enjoy the game at my pace. Listening to M.J.s “Smooth Criminal” or some “Strangelove” by Depeche Mode, eating a nice sandwhich while grilling stuff with the flamethrower. This is gameplay quality to me after my busy work days. (Eh, I feel old after typing this.. :P)

I also never care about other classes. I have my engineer. Period. I do not even use a single of those level-up book things you get. All 100% genuine killing-EXP. So enjoyable and totally fitting my ingame character (role play), my race and my real-life character.

Just made a picture (and shooting 500x grenades into the environment until I had a useful picture..^^) to make clear why I love that profession.

Is the OP serious or joking? Condi engi is one of the absolute best professions for both high end fractals and for raids.

Hey, I main a guardian and I love hammer, today I gave scrapper a go because I thought it is a class that takes much skill to play… I’ve never been so wrong.

Everyone says that it is hard to play due to lots of buttons and stuff. Well I see it not as something difficult but as more capabilities of fighting our enemies, seriously.
Perhaps years of playing MMORPG’s where there were lots of buttons to press brought me some good perception cause just as I picked up an engineer and studied its skill and traits, I were able to beat people on the same skill level much more easier due to lots of 24/7 boons uptime and overall damage on marauder along with the sheer tankiness of scrapper.
Or maybe I am just used to such complicated builds so it seemed easy.

style.6173:

Is the OP serious or joking? Condi engi is one of the absolute best professions for both high end fractals and for raids.

Best =/= most played, especially when it comes to piano level of kit dancing. And not everyone cares about raids or high end fractals. And yes, your first question is out of place. He simply asked why and didn’t start an argument that Engi is the worst profession for both high end fractals and for raids, according to your second statement.

Mahou.3924:

style.6173:

Is the OP serious or joking? Condi engi is one of the absolute best professions for both high end fractals and for raids.

And not everyone cares about raids or high end fractals.

engi is great at everything else too …

and has low skill floor viable builds …

insanemaniac.2456:

engi is great at everything else too …

and has low skill floor viable builds …

It is true, I have never ever played an engineer and now I start to play it more than my main guardian DH.
The reasoning that: “too many buttons is making it hard”, is borderline silly.
More buttons means more opportunities and counters against certain odds, if you study engineer’s capabilities for quite some time and practice with it trying to master a few combos and rotations then it gets much more enjoyable to play it.

For the first bunch of matches I played and PvE events that I have participated in, I was just trying to keep the synergy between swiftness/superspeed heals and 24/7 boons and regeneration, all those boons that were on my allies, it felt like being a real guardian and I could still deal considerable ammounts of damage by just droping random skills while everything went down like a warm knife through butter. It doesn’t really take that much skill to be efficient if so many boons and well synergized traits carry yo butt (auto-shrink trait says hello) and such glorious damage + sustain.

insanemaniac.2456:

Mahou.3924:

style.6173:

Is the OP serious or joking? Condi engi is one of the absolute best professions for both high end fractals and for raids.

And not everyone cares about raids or high end fractals.

engi is great at everything else too …

and has low skill floor viable builds …

I’m not denying it. Just saying that at least in Tyria zones I also haven’t seen too many Engineers/Scrappers running around. That may very well partly be because I wasn’t looking at the 80 zones and played across my characters on the heart quest maps, though.
I’m playing Engineer too, btw, as I found the gameplay more fluid in contrast to the early Mesmer experience (who was the alternative for my last original chara slot) and finally unlocked the 3rd traitline.

Hawks.5736:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

Of course I see this right when I finish leveling my engi. -.-

Redfeather.6401:

Even though my pve main is an engi, it honestly doesn’t ‘show off’ as well as other professions. Nor does it mentally excite with the whole ‘dressing up a character to roleplay to oneself’ aspect.

I kind of disagree with both of those. Engie is one of the most visually entertaining classes in the game, with a combination of gadgets, gizmos, and gew-gaws that range from the comical to the…Man I can’t think of the right word other than “action-movie cool” that won’t get me censored. DPS-wise it’s much more difficult to play, but a good engineer In PvE is both highly survivable and deals a lot of damage.

And as an admitted RPer, my engie character is a lot of fun to roleplay. He’s a former Vigil Tactitian who quit the order due to rumors of unrest at home, and is both a believer in science as well as a devout follower of the Six (in contrast to the strong atheist bent to most human RP characters). He considers the inspiration for his inventions to be its own kind of magic, and a gift from the gods. He’s also a little insane after someone drugged him with hallucinogens and left him in a box for days.

Alot of people seem to be speculating that Engi isn’t played as much due to skill rotations being complex. However, for me at least, this isn’t the case at all. The complex skill rotations are the best part.

The problem is that, after playing an Engineer for some time, it just becomes stale. Every decent build is just a slightly altered copy of another build. Most Engineer builds take many of the same traits and will always include the same old kits for utilities cause everything else is suboptimal. This creates a huge lack of diversity between builds, leading to the eventual boredom with the class as a whole.

Not that it is THE source for builds, but hop over to metabattle.com and look at the number of builds available for each profession. For example, now that I’m back on my Necro, I have so many options for how I want to play him. I don’t get that with the Engineer.

So you see, it’s not necessarily your complex rotation or anything like that, it’s simply because other people get bored with the repetitiveness of the Engi.

TeslaRaptor.5197:

Hawks.5736:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Condition_Grenadier

Scroll down to the “Optimal DPS Rotation” bit.

Of course I see this right when I finish leveling my engi. -.-

Start with step 48. Figure the rest out over time.

Also, regarding medium armor- I like the appearances far more than light armor over all. And most of heavy as well for that matter. A lot of heavy armor looks clunky as hell.

Just accept https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp3-jmRXIww as our armor theme song and own it.

As for why people don’t play it? I think a big part of it boils down to what people want out of a fantasy game. Engis don’t fit as easily as other classes, heck, mesmer DOES a bit better, and we aren’t exactly swimming in them, either!

There’s nothing wrong with that at all. I love steampunk and my engi looks like a moderate goth at most times. Some people like to log in, grab a two handed sword, strap a halfling-equivalent on their arm as a shield, and go stomp bad guys. Some people like Sam Adams, some people like Dos Equis.

Given the amount of time it takes to play a main of any profession, you better enjoy the feel/appearance of it as much as the mechanical result, or you’re probably going to burn out on it that much sooner.

alain.1659:

All other classes look cool, and known among many fantasy books and games under a similar name. In the world of magic, engi feels absurd in the beginning for some fantasy lovers like me. I have my ele and want to play him all the time. Can I? No. Because of this stupid class called engineer.

I hate mechanization. I do not like technology in fantasy games. I really dislike steampunk. No visual on engi attracts me. The class lore is empty and there is literally no logical explanation why one would bring a flamethrower to a sword fight. All and all many of my friends think like this. But I love this silly class. I have not been able to play anything else for some time. Engineer is complex, needs you to act without thinking. No memorized rotation can save you. And you can literally do everything. Needs some time to get used to it. And like someone said, engineer needs a special mind set and a playstyle. It is batman in jla, it is a wizard in dnd, it is the guy silently saves the day but never really cared about it in the movies.

This was an interesting post, but the bolded part really seems wrong…crude flamethrowers have been used for a very long time and would be pretty effective against a sword-armed opponent if used properly. I should note that if you’re going after a dragon, sword and shield will get you nowhere but killed. Siege weapons are the way to go, and nobody does those better.

alain.1659:

The class lore is empty and there is literally no logical explanation why one would bring a flamethrower to a sword fight.

how about you and I meet up, i’ll bring a flamethrower and you bring a sowrd… see how well that goes for you (oh and I’m not talking in-game :p )

Sadly I have no idea how to use a sowrd

I love engineer but really, lorewise they are a little “pushed”. They use no magic but summon a turret from their tushies?

They are masters of mechanics but no one invented a bloody sniper, or a heavy machine gun?

I am joking ofcourse. I like engi, but lore-wise it is not as archetypal as other professions. And it gives you a carpal-tunnel syndrome.

TwiceDead.1963:

“Beware my crotch! It fires BULLETS!”

And you, Sir, owe me a cup of coffee. I laughed so hard I spilled the one I started with.