Guild Wars 2

I quit and uninstalled the game at the beginning of December after reaching Ruby. I liked the playstyle of Scrapper, but it felt brokenly strong and wasn’t really that fun to fight against either. So I basically played up to where I felt like I racked up “enough” tokens to craft my backpack at the end of next season (and in prayers that the game is generally more fun to play).

I was interested in today’s patch primarily because of the removal of Celestial and quickness stomps/resses. But as I was waiting for the game to reinstall this caught my attention:

Vigor and other endurance-regeneration effects (such as traits) now stack up to a maximum of 100% bonus regeneration rate.

So it had me thinking: does this mean that Adrenal Implant and Vigor finally stack? And the answer is yes.

So the question is, really, ultimately—and I’m curious if others share my sentiment—is Firearms/Alchemy/Tools going to be a thing again?

More viable before patch but you must try it itself. Remember that other proffesions loose or reciew new things too. I still now at hammer scrapper, but trying change inventions for tools. And slick shoes for toolkit…

David.5974:

More viable before patch but you must try it itself. Remember that other proffesions loose or reciew new things too. I still now at hammer scrapper, but trying change inventions for tools. And slick shoes for toolkit…

I think a good place to start would be examining builds that used Firearms/Alchemy/Tools together like Cele P/P HGH or Marauder Rifle and tweaking from there.

That’s what I’ll definitely be doing today.

Nice, i will do too. My priority will be tools trait and alchemy. Without alchemy, conditions eat me. Tools can be better now because vigor and adrenail stack with loved meta tool kit buff.

I start from my own build-explosives alchemy tools(EG, Nade kit, TK, Elixir x..) – great dmg, this can counter reaper you have low boon number. With fast fingers this can work, but i am scare with thief buff..

Another one alchemy, inventions, tools (EG, TK, riffle turret) taking static discharge and focus on some minor heal support to allies with new changes.

I never much play fire arms, alchemy tools, so this must you try how it work now.

And at last scrappy with tools. It will be fun now

why play without scrapper when it provides so much sustain :/

insanemaniac.2456:

why play without scrapper when it provides so much sustain :/

Just was a thought. Nothing seriously expected here. If anything, it’s just nice to have another build to mess with. Key word here is “viable.”

Clearly this is just a buff to make vanilla builds a bit more competitive, but the function gyro provides way too much utility to ditch entirely.

Well I tried some condi builds with p/p and its even kittentier now. Condi necro is just so much better in every single way at this point.

GG ANet you still dont understand how to balance.

displacedTitan.6897:

Well I tried some condi builds with p/p and its even kittentier now. Condi necro is just so much better in every single way at this point.

GG ANet you still dont understand how to balance.

Blows my mind what they did to corrupt boons.

Condi with P/P does not change too much . Instead now, old meta with rifle is really really strong imho becouse toolkit with cd reduction is really effective .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsYJXw+KQ+FLvF13QFhBg4F1EJx4Z0F5IA-TJRHABks/AZPAAAuAAZXGAA

This is instead what i was trying with p/p but it seems not so strong , i am not satisfied by it and i am looking for something better. In any case it is quite viable …
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUh2tYJXw+KQ+FLsF1YbMG/oYHNFPBYIWiBAA-TpgYABZWGAg9HAA
Any suggestion or idea is welcome

PierPiero.9142:

Condi with P/P does not change too much . Instead now, old meta with rifle is really really strong imho becouse toolkit with cd reduction is really effective .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsYJXw+KQ+FLvF13QFhBg4F1EJx4Z0F5IA-TJRHABks/AZPAAAuAAZXGAA

i feel like maybe alchemy can be abandoned for scrapper… maybe a 1 kit rifle/tk decapper/bunker/control build with paladin(?) ammy to get bunker down procs. (inventions/tools/scrapper)

insanemaniac.2456:

PierPiero.9142:

Condi with P/P does not change too much . Instead now, old meta with rifle is really really strong imho becouse toolkit with cd reduction is really effective .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsYJXw+KQ+FLvF13QFhBg4F1EJx4Z0F5IA-TJRHABks/AZPAAAuAAZXGAA

i feel like maybe alchemy can be abandoned for scrapper… maybe a 1 kit rifle/tk decapper/bunker/control build with paladin(?) ammy to get bunker down procs. (inventions/tools/scrapper)

I think bro that alchemy is core of any pvp build. Without alchemy, conditions are eat us. Every 15 sec condi remove to boons, condi remove by elixir(with EG 2 condi remove)

So I trying alchemy/tools/scrapper right now, and I have reciew some messeges from angry players-that is succes. Many blocks, dodges, lower sustain but still good. I will continue to trying this

David.5974:

insanemaniac.2456:

PierPiero.9142:

Condi with P/P does not change too much . Instead now, old meta with rifle is really really strong imho becouse toolkit with cd reduction is really effective .
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsYJXw+KQ+FLvF13QFhBg4F1EJx4Z0F5IA-TJRHABks/AZPAAAuAAZXGAA

i feel like maybe alchemy can be abandoned for scrapper… maybe a 1 kit rifle/tk decapper/bunker/control build with paladin(?) ammy to get bunker down procs. (inventions/tools/scrapper)

I think bro that alchemy is core of any pvp build. Without alchemy, conditions are eat us. Every 15 sec condi remove to boons, condi remove by elixir(with EG 2 condi remove)

So I trying alchemy/tools/scrapper right now, and I have reciew some messeges from angry players-that is succes. Many blocks, dodges, lower sustain but still good. I will continue to trying this

god i know. prot injection, hgh, and all the minors are just so good. but im also considering our new necro overlords… it may be worth it to abandon boon spam if you see 2+ necros on the opposing team the way i seemed to see every game last week in sapphire and ruby.

I was thinking more along the lines of this with Mercenary amulet.

It’s basically the pre-HoT HGH build, just with tool kit instead of elixir gun. Why tool kit?

Because.

I think non-Scrapper builds are definitely viable again but not sure about the build you posted.

I think Alchemy + Inventions are absolute staples in any build given the abundance of Necros. This limits build diversity a lot but I think one could have moderate successes by taking Tools in the last line and running Mercenary/Paladin amulet with Grenade Kits.

chungiee.8764:

I think non-Scrapper builds are definitely viable again but not sure about the build you posted.

I think Alchemy + Inventions are absolute staples in any build given the abundance of Necros. This limits build diversity a lot but I think one could have moderate successes by taking Tools in the last line and running Mercenary/Paladin amulet with Grenade Kits.

Tools is definitely by and far one of our best trees now. Because necromancers have so much boon strip, it’s kind of pointless to roll with a Sigil of Energy or even combining Heavy Armor Exploit and Invigorating Speed together. I prefer taking Kinetic Battery for double stealth with all the burst builds floating around right now (which is normal to start for most balance patches), but I anticipate Adrenal Implant getting a lot of use in the future for that reason.

But what do you mean about Inventions? I feel like Mercenary is plenty tanky enough as it is, and a 3 second block on a 13 second cooldown is kinda OP levels strong.

I realize you were seeking ‘non scrapper’ builds, but I have been playing a p/p condi scrapper that seems to do work, and is very viable. It shines the most in stronghold games, for my play style at least.

P/p with sigil of geomancy and sigil of torment.

Rabid or wanderer’s amulet.

Rune of the undead

Firearms 3, 3, 1
Alchemy 2, 2, 3
Scrapper 1, 3, 3

Run HT, EG, rocket boots, elixir b, sneak gyro.

Fast burn application with plenty of cover condi’s. Just have to time your rotation well and you can burst down almost anyone. Enjoy!

Phineas Poe.3018:

Tools is definitely by and far one of our best trees now. Because necromancers have so much boon strip, it’s kind of pointless to roll with a Sigil of Energy or even combining Heavy Armor Exploit and Invigorating Speed together. I prefer taking Kinetic Battery for double stealth with all the burst builds floating around right now (which is normal to start for most balance patches), but I anticipate Adrenal Implant getting a lot of use in the future for that reason.

But what do you mean about Inventions? I feel like Mercenary is plenty tanky enough as it is, and a 3 second block on a 13 second cooldown is kinda OP levels strong.

Inventions (mainly Mecha Legs) is the only real defense you have vs Necros. In addition to reducing Chill (which destroys Engies), the 25% movement speed is a lifesaver. Speedy Kits in Tools is unreliable due to low CD of “Corrupt Boons” you get hit by. Once your 20s cooldown Swiftness is converted into Cripple (+Might into Weakness to reduce dodges), you are a sitting duck and will melt soon after even with a 3s block (which gets broken by marks).

I was watching Chaith’s stream from last night and saw that even he struggled when vs “noname” Necros when he was testing Tools/Scrapper/Alchemy without Inventions. I feel until Necros are nerfed or become less abundant, they will be keeping me locked into Alchemy/Inventions regardless of how low the shield CD is.

Saying that, he did seem to enjoy his new P/P Explosives/Firearms/Alchemy build so I could be overstating the importance of Inventions if you are able to stay far enough from Necro’s.

Edit: To be constructive, here a build I will try tonight when i get home.

with Paladins/Mercenary:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsY7Ww+KQ+FLvFl4F1EJx3QFhBQ4IGRpGA-TJBFwAAuAAWLD44BA0a/BA

Can potentially swap Explosives for Tools and take Toolkit over Elixir S/Slick Shoes.

for what invention better than alchemy ??? I used Chaith build for fun quite a lot and it is really strong ( i won many match with it, it is the build i won more in this period ) but it is really really squishy.
Mecha legs imho is not that great against necro … it is a strong trait but without alchemy a necro kills you easily in any case . Chaith build has 2 things : – the player , he is really strong so he is able to win even if , as against a necro , he is not favorite, we are speaking of a top player and second , it has an absurde condi damage and also a really good damage with nades so he can burst his opponents. Now for avarage players , toolkit gives a great burst to survivability and also good damage. I wanted to try a viper full hgh build with toolkit , 2 elixirs and mortar, to see if it is viable . The reduction on toolkit skills imho is really really strong but i have to try it . I can ensure that old marauder build with rifle and toolkit, with cd reduction, is really really strong , i tried it yesterday. I have to see if there are possibility to make something different with new amulets . The real problem is that engineer is limited from the fact ( imho) that precision is quite a must ( for nades if you have 33% you have perma crits … for firearms on condi build it is a must too…) so i have to check how to setup with them

chungiee.8764:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Tools is definitely by and far one of our best trees now. Because necromancers have so much boon strip, it’s kind of pointless to roll with a Sigil of Energy or even combining Heavy Armor Exploit and Invigorating Speed together. I prefer taking Kinetic Battery for double stealth with all the burst builds floating around right now (which is normal to start for most balance patches), but I anticipate Adrenal Implant getting a lot of use in the future for that reason.

But what do you mean about Inventions? I feel like Mercenary is plenty tanky enough as it is, and a 3 second block on a 13 second cooldown is kinda OP levels strong.

Inventions (mainly Mecha Legs) is the only real defense you have vs Necros. In addition to reducing Chill (which destroys Engies), the 25% movement speed is a lifesaver. Speedy Kits in Tools is unreliable due to low CD of “Corrupt Boons” you get hit by. Once your 20s cooldown Swiftness is converted into Cripple (+Might into Weakness to reduce dodges), you are a sitting duck and will melt soon after even with a 3s block (which gets broken by marks).

I was watching Chaith’s stream from last night and saw that even he struggled when vs “noname” Necros when he was testing Tools/Scrapper/Alchemy without Inventions. I feel until Necros are nerfed or become less abundant, they will be keeping me locked into Alchemy/Inventions regardless of how low the shield CD is.

Saying that, he did seem to enjoy his new P/P Explosives/Firearms/Alchemy build so I could be overstating the importance of Inventions if you are able to stay far enough from Necro’s.

Edit: To be constructive, here a build I will try tonight when i get home.

with Paladins/Mercenary:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUhSsY7Ww+KQ+FLvFl4F1EJx3QFhBQ4IGRpGA-TJBFwAAuAAWLD44BA0a/BA

Can potentially swap Explosives for Tools and take Toolkit over Elixir S/Slick Shoes.

I think that your rifle build has a big problem. You take nades with grenadeer but with 4% crits you lose a really high damage potential. When you throw 3 nades infact, if your crit is > 33% and all of them hit , you are quite sure 1 nade crits and it burst your damage. It is one of the reasons why old condi nades build was so strong Many engi traits benefits from precision . If you don’t take explosive …. nades are bad himo … really easy to dodge and really less strong … so you lose. It seems to me that now the game is shifted to “kill before be killed meta”

chungiee.8764:

Saying that, he did seem to enjoy his new P/P Explosives/Firearms/Alchemy build so I could be overstating the importance of Inventions if you are able to stay far enough from Necro’s.

Everyone is used to the crutch of Inventions + Scrapper. It will take some adjustment, but engineers survived just fine for years without both trees, and when a lot of professions had much stronger spike damage.

I really want Explosives/Firearms + Alchemy + Tools to be a thing again. I enjoyed playing as a Scrapper, but I don’t think that should be our only option. And if F2P accounts can be competitive, it’ll be healthier for the game overall.

And RE: necros, I think everyone knows they’re ridiculously overtuned right now. I’d be blown away if they’re left as-is for the second season. And if they are, I won’t be playing.

Phineas Poe.3018:

chungiee.8764:

Saying that, he did seem to enjoy his new P/P Explosives/Firearms/Alchemy build so I could be overstating the importance of Inventions if you are able to stay far enough from Necro’s.

Everyone is used to the crutch of Inventions + Scrapper. It will take some adjustment, but engineers survived just fine for years without both trees, and when a lot of professions had much stronger spike damage.

I really want Explosives/Firearms + Alchemy + Tools to be a thing again. I enjoyed playing as a Scrapper, but I don’t think that should be our only option. And if F2P accounts can be competitive, it’ll be healthier for the game overall.

And RE: necros, I think everyone knows they’re ridiculously overtuned right now. I’d be blown away if they’re left as-is for the second season. And if they are, I won’t be playing.

Ye now necro are absurdaly op …. anet should tone them down a bit

PierPiero.9142:

Phineas Poe.3018:

chungiee.8764:

Saying that, he did seem to enjoy his new P/P Explosives/Firearms/Alchemy build so I could be overstating the importance of Inventions if you are able to stay far enough from Necro’s.

Everyone is used to the crutch of Inventions + Scrapper. It will take some adjustment, but engineers survived just fine for years without both trees, and when a lot of professions had much stronger spike damage.

I really want Explosives/Firearms + Alchemy + Tools to be a thing again. I enjoyed playing as a Scrapper, but I don’t think that should be our only option. And if F2P accounts can be competitive, it’ll be healthier for the game overall.

And RE: necros, I think everyone knows they’re ridiculously overtuned right now. I’d be blown away if they’re left as-is for the second season. And if they are, I won’t be playing.

Ye now necro are absurdaly op …. anet should tone them down a bit

Well, arguably scrapper is just as strong. They didn’t touch our damage or survivability at all. Hammer still dumpsters everything that isn’t a necromancer.

Hence this thread.

Dropped Elixir B for Elixir Gun. Working pretty well, still.

try this :http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalcThSuY5Vw+KQ7FLsF1YbMG/I4HWiBgYHNFPBA-TJRGABiXGo8TAQQ7PAwDAAA
use rune of aristocracy not present in the tool ( so i set others ) . It is a little difficult to play but you can burst and have fun. Obvioulsy it will not be next meta … but it is strong .

Phineas Poe.3018:

Dropped Elixir B for Elixir Gun. Working pretty well, still.

the post is on no scrapper build in any case …. if you take scrapper … you are not in the post

PierPiero.9142:

Phineas Poe.3018:

Dropped Elixir B for Elixir Gun. Working pretty well, still.

the post is on no scrapper build in any case …. if you take scrapper … you are not in the post

I’m not using Scrapper.

I’m using this with Mercenary. Runes and sigils I’m still playing with, but I’m liking Intelligence and Leeching.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUhSuY7Ww+KQ7FLsFlYHNFPB4HeiBwYb0j/IA

if i remember correctly mercenary runes have no precision. So you have really low incendiary powder access. Is not better to take something else ? IP is really important in a condi build .

Sigil of Intelligence.