Guild Wars 2

Hello !

if you take a look at the engineer’s traits, you can see that there are only two traits that allow the engineer to deal with conditions :

- Cleaning Formula 409(CF)
- Automated Response (AR)

As many already know, AR is getting nerfed. It clearly is a lazy trait that does not promote skilled gameplay, that was OP in 1v1s (given that the ennemy couldn’t overload with conditions at 40% hp) and useless in team fights. Since it won’t be an immune anymore, even the sore losers won’t use it.

Cleaning formula poses another issue : engineer needs to run at the very least one kit due to the inability to have another weapon set, otherwise it won’t deal enough damage. CF won’t prove amazing outside of a HGH build because it requires you to give up very strong traits like vigor on swiftness, protection injection, backpack regenerator (because you will need -20% CD on elixirs). If you go with the setup : Elixir B / Kit / Stun breaker (Elixir S) you only gain 3 condition removals.
Indeed, you won’t use your stun breaker to cleanse conditions (and probably won’t use Elixir S throw to cleanse anything either..).

So this is not exactly viable (nor fun, but that comes next to most people).

Now condition-related traits are out of the way.

Then what do we have left? Elixir R throw with 15 in tools, we stay in the AoE and spam Throw Wrench and we use #5 shield? that’s not reliable at all. Elixir R was good, but removing the stun breaker from it means it’s really hard to fit it in a build when you might want another kit or a stun breaker instead.

In terms of heal, we have the healing turret (2 conditions/ 15 -20s), which is good. But that is that only condition removal most engineers use.

The only other viable option to cleanse conditions is Super Elixir from Elixir Gun which will remove one condition (and more if you use Throw Wrench/#5 shield in it). Sadly, if you are standing in the AoE you are also at risk to get condi-bombed so again, this is not good.

We used to have a Super Elixir from Kit Refinement, which allowed EG to provide two Super Elixirs. That way, the condition removal was okay-ish. It’s not the case anymore.

TL;DR :

I would like to see some new condition removal introduced to the class because it’s been in dire need of it for a long time and the nerf on AR should probably be compensated somehow even if that trait isn’t very popular (except for decap engis).

How about a trait that would go like this :

- Remove 2 conditions when getting in or out of a kit (15s CD)

Do you agree? do you have any better ideas? Please discuss

You forgot transmute. We also have elixir C.

Personally, I have this slim hope the patch Tuesday will fix kit refinement slightly.

My biggest problem is that our main weapons are balanced to be weak because we have kits, but requiring utility slots for kits takes up a slot I could put the condition removal of Elixir C in.

I thought that we took a giant leap forward when they added a stun breaker to the elixir gun tool belt skill.

Oh yes indeed.

Well transmuste is cute but you can’t control it and it’s one condition per 15s.

The way the class is designed is wrong. You need kits to make up for your damage but kits don’t have condition removals. Most kits don’t have a stun break either, which means two things :

1) Everyone must run EG to get 1 stun breaker and some slightly better condition removal

2) You should sacrifice your survivability/damage/stun breaker just to get condition removal via elixir C

Both options don’t sound really good to me. I doubt really much that there will be more trait changes than those announced so far.

you could use purity + generosity sigils after the 15th.. might be really good along with the cleanse-1-on-heal food and healing turret and rocket boots and rifle 4

elixir c is borderline unviable

I do not think it is designed “wrong” at all. They simply need to tweak a few of our options.

Personally, I think transmute should be on kitten ICD. 90% of the time I get swiftness, because most profession open on me with a ranged immobilize. The plus side, is that for a minor trait, I get to see my enemy burn their ranged immobilize.

I actually run generosity as part of my tanky condition bomb spec.

@insanemaniac

What I don’t like about this idea is that both sigils (because engineer will only get 2 sigils while the other classes get 4) can trigger even if you don’t have a condition on you, so you would have to give up both your sigils to get RNG removal that would require you to hit your ennemy.

Let’s say both sigils trigger when you don’t have a condition yet or that it removes a condition you don’t really care about (one with a very short duration for instance), then for 10s both sigils are useless. Truly not the best solution.

@dancingmonkey

What I mean is that you have many other utilities : gadget, turrets, elixirs. And you can’t build without a kit because that’s how the class was designed. You can build with 3 turrets and be useless once they’re destroyed (let’s not consider the fun factor here). You can’t do enough damage without kits and that’s why there’s an issue. Not to mention that ArenaNet is literally trolling us with the new Tools GM trait that will be introduced in the next patch. As if anyone was using a gadget build…

On a side note : do you know of any class who is forced to play with one type of utility and give it one or two utility slots (or even three)? outside of engineer, I don’t.

Now it’s not that I don’t like kits, they’re the funniest part of engi (apart from slick shoes and rocket boots), but this is paradoxical.

Really, I think ArenaNet needs to introduce one or two traits that would remove conditions such as the one I mentionned. That would be far from OP and it would probably be enough to give engi decent condition removal.

Uhtameit.2413:

@insanemaniac

What I don’t like about this idea is that both sigils (because engineer will only get 2 sigils while the other classes get 4) can trigger even if you don’t have a condition on you, so you would have to give up both your sigils to get RNG removal that would require you to hit your ennemy.

most of these issues should be solved come the 15th. idk if the balance pass will address wasted triggers, but both sigils are changing to on hit instead of on crit. if you have issues with hitting 2~3 autoattacks…. well… …. hmm.

i dont think ill use both myself, i think energy + generosity is a more useful combo.

i do agree tho that another condi removal trait would be really helpful.

The fact that such a sigil can proc without a condition on you isn’t a bug, I don’t think it is anyway. It’s just part of the RNG. If it is “on hit” instead of “on crit” it might be indeed worth it.

Uhtameit.2413:

On a side note : do you know of any class who is forced to play with one type of utility and give it one or two utility slots (or even three)? outside of engineer, I don’t.

Look, I am trying to argue some points that vary a little from yours, but that are on the same side of the fence as you are. The problem is you make a lot of over the top comments. For example, you clearly d onto understand what the word “forced” means here. You may “need” it for what you personally consider a certain level of optimization, but you are by know means forced to do anything.

As well, you are completely wring to tell me I cannot build with out a kit. I often run a very successful SD build that uses no kits. I have been to be a bit of a beast while roaming in WvW with a full elixir build as well.

Please do not try to force your opinion on me in that manner and tell me what I can and cannot accomplish. As I mention, I am on your side of the fence here, but your approach isn’t going to win you many fans.

Forgive me if I wasn’t clear, how would you run a succesful condition build without kits? I’m talking about sPvP but that’s probably true for WvW as well, you need kits.
As for direct damage builds, they aren’t really reliable in PvP but you’d better have Grenade Kit imo.

Uhtameit.2413:

Forgive me if I wasn’t clear, how would you run a succesful condition build without kits? I’m talking about sPvP but that’s probably true for WvW as well, you need kits.

With a might stacking 4 elixir build, incendiary power trait, duel pistols, runes that benefit conditions, and 2 sigils that benefit conditions.

Hum, I have three objections :

1) it sounds awfully boring

2)you won’t kill anyone with any decent amount of condition removal

3)your survivability would be really bad (without tool kit or shield, I mean)

pistols’n’pots was all the rage back near launch… and then people started taking a kit to augment the build

The game has come a long way since launch, many things that were viable back then are no longer a threat to anyone.

IMO the new tools GM trait should also cure a condition on gadget use…

Uhtameit.2413:

The game has come a long way since launch, many things that were viable back then are no longer a threat to anyone.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This quote is so true my frands! Just take a look at HGH builds! Anet never nerfed those builds! In fact, Anet actually buffed them by adding stability to Elixir B and stealth to Elixir S! However power creep rendered those builds completely useless in PvP! Yay power creep!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Change transmute to:

Transform one condition into a boon when you use a toolbelt skill (maybe put a 10s icd cooldown or something so it wouldn’t be too strong w/ surprise shot and other low cd toolbelts)

ellesee.8297:

Uhtameit.2413:

The game has come a long way since launch, many things that were viable back then are no longer a threat to anyone.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

This quote is so true my frands! Just take a look at HGH builds! Anet never nerfed those builds! In fact, Anet actually buffed them by adding stability to Elixir B and stealth to Elixir S! However power creep rendered those builds completely useless in PvP! Yay power creep!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Actually it was sort of nerfed when they moved Incendiary Powder to 20 points because you can’t have 3 mights on heal and Incendiary Powder at the same time which is kinda annoying.

I see conditions as being our strength (applying) and our weakness (taking).

If anything, I would argue we need more ability to move and break stuns(Love to see the e-gun’s acid bomb) move us forwards not backwards for example.

As for condition removal, we have a very good turret for that. 2 every 15 seconds.
You get another from e-gun super elixir that is very fast (but only 1 condition) and tend to have a trait to remove one condition every 15 seconds as well but that is out of your control. We also have a lot of passive regeneration and healing to counter minor conditions. The problem is we can’t clear A LOT of conditions placed on us very quickly.

You can always take elixir c instead of say the e-gun if running solo or in a small group. It is very effective and the long recharge timer is ok given the other condition removals at our disposal.

If I were to make changes to add just a little help.
1) Regenerating Mist (F1 skill on heal turret) would remove a single condition (AE) or maybe two (but engineer only).
2) Fumigate would clear 1 condition every other tick for the engineer (you could call it “drift” and
3) Increase drop antidote to 2 or 3 conditions. Two mirrors HT. Three would reflect it is single person use.

That would increase the need to run HT + EG, though.

Personally I would like to see more condition removal from the Med Kit’s Antidote. Right now it feels as though Healing Turret just overly dominates our choices in healing.

I agree. It is an entire kit dedicated to pure survivability through condition removal, healing packs, and swiftness.

I wouldn’t mind a trait that cleansed a condition upon absorbing a med kit pack.

Med kit bandages could remove a condition. Antidote could be moved to short term reduction in condition duration or damage.

You would have 3 conditions removed every 15 secs which is a lot but you have to drop the heals and run over them (and not have allies do so). Antidote reducing condition damage by say 25% would be interesting or it could just be a stun break really.

Well honestly, Other then elixir C, every other ability we have to remove a condition either requires a minimum of 15 trait points or a skil that requires 2-3 organized and/or ground targeted button presses.

I run a power turret build in spvp i am not useless without my turrets because i do fair damage plus i have my tolbelt skills as well as the rifle knockback and net youre right however i am completely powerless against high condi builds because my only condi cleanser is the two condi removal on heal which is not enough against a condi engi (who stacks kitten near every condition in the game on you every two seconds) or a necro (really any build on necro has op as kitten condi with the kitten fear damage) my main concern a net is the fact that you focus warriors and are killing classes like the engi and ranger i mean honest to god gadgets and faster arrows? what kind of bull kitten is that? those are both trolly as hell and youre just trying to kill off two classes with amazing potential