Guild Wars 2

I know this probably has been discussed already but…why is the elixir X a mix of 3 elites put together?

I mean, it has a 102 seconds cooldown and benefits from all elixir traits, including the duration extending trait.
Both rampage and tornado have a 150s cooldown and last less than the traited elixir X.

Which can be fine, as there’s some rng involved.

But now they added the AoE moa morph.
It has a 120s cooldown, while the mesmer’s signet has 180s cooldown.
It can hit up to 3 enemies in an area, instead that only one.
It has half the cast time.
It lasts only 3 seconds instead of 10 seconds.
It doesn’t provide a passive effect.
It can be casted twice with kinetic battery.

Now my question is: what makes the elixirX+its toolbelt skill balanced compared to other professions’ elites?
I’m not hating or anything, i’m just curious, if i were an ele or a warr i’d feel a little cheated.

No one takes Elixer X and yet every warrior takes Rampage now.

Engineers get the benefit of lower cooldowns while warriors in Rampage get HUGE synergy and like 30% bonus damage AND are tankier than engi.

Tornado is kitten for Ele and kitten for Elixer X as well. Basically if you only got Rampage then Elixer X would be worth taking, as it is now, even fully specced for elixers, its still kitten.

The fact that transforms are, by and large, utterly garbage in a PvE setting, and most things you would want to Moa are immune to it.
In PvP the massive, hulking shape draws unwanted attention to you, you still lose all your regular skills, and due to the RNG nature you and your opponent(s) are on somewhat equal footing to capitalise on the change (Tornado has no gapclosers for instance)

Then there’s the opportunity cost of giving up Crate, which provides a stun, blast finisher, heal and chip damage without locking you out of any other skills.

That is not saying the skill is perfectly balanced, Moa in particular is a recent addition in a patch that notoriously broke a lot of things.

From pvp:
Moa lasts 3 seconds, it is more an interrupt than anything else.
The elite you get from the elixir is random you will never know if it is the tordano or the warrior thing. But for both, you will never be a zerk to do the amount of damage a fresh air ele or a warrior can do (even for this ele prefer the greatsword → faster to move across the map, nice damage). So you will by far prefer supply crate which gives more stustain with a heal/blast finisher water field if you are quick and a stun or only a stun if your turrets are killed by an aoe….

Well,i never complained about elixir X’s strength by itself, i’m aware of the flaws of the transformations, i was wondering why it’s directly more powerful than Ele’s transformation or warr’s transformation (aside the fact it’s rng based) and has an AoE mesmer elite with reduced duration.

Those are fairly good points, but that’s the transformations fault, not the elixir X’s fault.

I don’t get why it would be more powerful. The only case you will run zerk as an engi is pve and maybe static discharge wvw. In case of pve the random of the tornado with the pushback can be annoying, in wvw tornado is useless compared to the sustain supply crate “can” offer (if turrets not destroyed). So the random effect prevents the “powerful” effect you are wondering. And again the 3sec moa is just an interrupt, at best.

So this elite, is limited by the engineer concept itself. You will rarely run zerk, and if you do you will prefer something to save you rather than a random elite which will not really help you against your foe.

Nieguen.6235:

I don’t get why it would be more powerful. The only case you will run zerk as an engi is pve and maybe static discharge wvw. In case of pve the random of the tornado with the pushback can be annoying, in wvw tornado is useless compared to the sustain supply crate “can” offer (if turrets not destroyed).So the random effect prevents the “powerful” effect you are wondering. And again the 3sec moa is just an interrupt, at best.

Still, if you get the tornado out of elixit X, it’s stronger than elementalist’s tornado.
If you get the rampage out of elixir X, it’s stronger than warrior’s rampage.
Both due to the fact that they’re the same ability, has a lower cooldown, and if traited, it has higher duration and procs other elixir traits.
Plus, on top of that, a watered down AoE mesmer elite.

Sure, getting the tornado may not be a good deal, same for the rampage, maybe you’d just be better with the crate or the mortar kit, that doesn’t change that the elixir X, if we ignore the RNG side of it, IS a stronger version of two other professions’ elites.

Again, i don’t say it’s powerful, useful and whatever and that it is better than engineer’s other elites, i’m asking why, if we remove the rng aspect, it is a stronger version of ele’s tornado and warr’s rampage.

So yeah, i guess it’s balanced due to the fact the profession rarely can take advantage of the transformation while eles and warriors can?
Cause afaik, eles aren’t really happy with the tornado and i never see warriors using rampage…

ButterOfDeath.2873:

I know this probably has been discussed already but…why is the elixir X a mix of 3 elites put together?

I mean, it has a 102 seconds cooldown and benefits from all elixir traits, including the duration extending trait.
Both rampage and tornado have a 150s cooldown and last less than the traited elixir X.

You forgot something: Tornado and Rampage both got a skill tag too. Rampage count’s as an physical skill, Tornado is a cantrip now. They are both effected by traits for these skill types. This means they aren’t “better”, they are “different”! Rampage benefits from a trait which reduces the recharge and dealing more damage based on adrenaline! So this skills have their adventages too.

Kodama.6453:

ButterOfDeath.2873:

I know this probably has been discussed already but…why is the elixir X a mix of 3 elites put together?

I mean, it has a 102 seconds cooldown and benefits from all elixir traits, including the duration extending trait.
Both rampage and tornado have a 150s cooldown and last less than the traited elixir X.

You forgot something: Tornado and Rampage both got a skill tag too. Rampage count’s as an physical skill, Tornado is a cantrip now. They are both effected by traits for these skill types. This means they aren’t “better”, they are “different”! Rampage benefits from a trait which reduces the recharge and dealing more damage based on adrenaline! So this skills have their adventages too.

Strictly cooldown wise, the elixir X untraited beats the others traited.
Cantrips give regen, vigor and 3 stacks of might if fully traited.
IDK how peak performance works with rampage, does it boost ALL damage done during the skill’s duration? If so that’s quite good!
As for the elixir: 20% more duration, 2 stacks of long duration might, 1 condition removed.

All in all, they’re all good bonuses, still the elixir X has the shorter cooldown and the toolbelt ability.

But really now i’m curious about the peak performance trait, if it works like that then i’m so going to do a rampage build lol.

The toolbelt ability is part of the class mechanic, though. Unless you take in account other class mechanics as well, it shouldn’t count for a comparison.
About the skill itself…well, guess it being random makes for most of its balancing. Other classes know what they’re getting, so they’ll use their transformations when it’s most appropriate.
But when we use it, we won’t necessarily get the transformation most suited to the current situation. If it happens, that’s nice. If it doesn’t…we’ll have to work something out.
And that’s the game-wise explanation.

The other explanation is that the engineer was likely made in an hurry (it was even the last profession presented) and they just recycled as many assets and code as possible. Thus making an elite that literally consisted of some other elite chosen at random (and thus reusing their already-done functions, even if with a couple of different parameters). Well, we can say the same for the other elites as well, anyway. Supply Crate just recycled other turret skills (most evident in the fact that to change supply crate’s net turret they had to nerf the normal net turret as well), and the old mortar, while having some additional skills, shared the WvW mortar model (at least, i can’t remember any visual difference between them; not that i used it much, since it was quite bad…).

vizups.3824:

Where is the downvote button here ? Stop blaming engies for everything just l2p and admit you cannot beat every engi. THANK YOU

I had and still have no issue with engineers, i was just curious.
It interests me that you’re so defensive.

Don’t forget that Mesmers Moa is now a signet. And the passive is pretty great. Very few mesmers even run Moa. Its also pretty bad compared to their other elites.

X is a solid choice for zerker 100nades. rampage has got me a lot of kills, and tornado has amazing point domination. the moa interrupt is invaluable and allows for the ‘humiliation manoeuvre’, moa + barrage.

The laziest elite ever.

Killyox.3950:

The laziest elite ever.

I think crate still takes that title.