Guild Wars 2

An engineer can set up turrets in a lower level area. Then the player goes AFK, and the turrets automatically target and kill anything that comes close.

This is botting, as far as I understand it. You’re nowhere near the computer, and your character is killing things automatically.

However this is entirely within the normal game parameters. You have not introduced a script, or any external sofware, there are no macros. There aren’t even any special skill combinations. You just need an area where the enemies will not be able to kill the turret.

Is this a reportable offense?

There is a pve timer that when you are too long afk, you will be kicked, there is a timer for loot too, if you don’t pickt it up it will disappear. The only thing he can win is xp, nothing more.

This doesn’t use a third-party product or software. It may use an exploit if you find a place to put the turret where it can attack without being attacked. This is not intended; if the turret can do damage to the enemy, then the enemy should be able to do damage to the turret. If the enemy can damage the turret, the turret will be destroyed; turrets aren’t that durable.

Edited to add: So, the way that I understand it, engineers planting a turret is not botting. An engineer planting a turret where it can do damage but cannot be damaged in return may be considered an exploit.

There’s an assumption in your post that planting a turret and walking away is going to kill things. A turret alone doesn’t do much damage. Further, it doesn’t regain health automatically once outside of battle. Even if it survives one fight (which I think is unlikely without some sort of exploit), it starts the next battle down on health. It’s not going to sit there killing things without player intervention or assistance. It’s going to be destroyed.

White Wolf.3291:

There is a pve timer that when you are too long afk, you will be kicked, there is a timer for loot too, if you don’t pickt it up it will disappear. The only thing he can win is xp, nothing more.

Where in the definition of botting does it say it has to be profitable?

Also, it’s a way to level an engineer while AFK. Seems like it’s still botting.

I have run into the PvE idle disconnection myself — went AFK and took longer than I expected before returning. But I’m not sure it would work if the character is in combat frequently, that may be enough to prevent the idle kick.

(edit to add other post)

if the turret can do damage to the enemy, then the enemy should be able to do damage to the turret. If the enemy can damage the turret, the turret will be destroyed; turrets aren’t that durable.

Depends on the level of the character and the area.

If you’d like a specific example, I’ll mention where I’ve seen this multiple times. On my server, there’s a character in the Sylvari tutorial, Fighting the Nightmare. This character plants turrets around the nightmare hounds that appear nearly constantly. The turrets drop the hounds as fast as they spawn, long before the hounds can do any damage to the turrets.

Botting? Not botting? Seems pretty gray area to me.

I wouldn’t call it botting, but it might be considered an exploit.

(And you might want to edit out the specific example describing it in your post and send the detailed question in a ticket to Support instead.)

I’m not naming character names, just the area to show where the turrets can kill the enemies faster than the enemies can damage the turrets. Just in case there’s question of my wording — Fighting the Nightmare is the name of the Sylvari tutorial area, but I can see how it might look like I’m naming a specific character.

I’m curious about your definition of botting, if you wouldn’t call it that. What would you consider a bot? (not trying to be argumentative, honestly curious, but words are not my friends this evening)

ITS no different than a ranger going afk and their pet auto attacking everything. Its not botting unless your using macros/3rd party programs. But anything with a “pet” can be more exploitable.

I think this is pretty low on the priority list of “exploits” for several reasons:

1. It’s only possible in very low-level areas. Turrets can’t beat anything above level 4 or so on their own, and if a turret is placed so the mob can’t hit it, the mobs will go invulnerable.

2. It’s impossible to get anything except a (very) small rate of xp doing this. Your turrets can’t get loot or coin for you. The problems the game developers are concerned with are people farming stuff using bots (usually to sell to actual players for real money). You can’t do that by turret-afk-ing for a trickle of xp.

3. Leaving turrets up won’t stop the game from kicking you to character select after about an hour.

4. Turrets can’t kill even level 1 mobs fast enough to be a detriment to players actually playing the game. Anyone actually sitting in front of the computer will be able to tag the mobs no problem.

So, maybe one or two people are leaving turrets around just for the novelty of it, but the bottom line is they are essentially not profiting from it or hurting other players. Disclaimer: I don’t even PvE, so I don’t care about “farming” at all. I just hope the devs will focus their bug-fixing resources on the bugs that engineers actually have with their skills and traits.

I’ve used turret farms to get enough crafting materials for some things, or to supply party members with them. I don’t know if it would be considered exploiting, but it’s really not that hard, if you trait properly, can find the right place to set up and don’t expect each turret to kill an enemy single-handedly. Can even do it in Orr.

It’ll still kick you back to the character select if you’re not actively doing anything, though if you’re watching the screen (I was actually just sitting in my chair reading a book, for example), you’ll get loot to grab often enough that you’ll be able to avoid the boot.

Overall, it’s slower for gathering than actively playing, though it does reduce the feeling of grinding for gear (even if it’s just the materials).

Guys just… since when a lvl1 in the sylvari tutorial HAS ACCESS to utilities? I thought you needed to be at least lvl10+ or smtg?

If the guy actually had access to it then it MUST be botting.

Moa Kit: Turn yourself into a moa bird and acquire its skills.

1. Claw: Wildly scratch your foe when standing still for 12 seconds.
2. Kick: Kick your foe and fall flat on your back. 2 second stun.
3. Peck: First hit does a lot of damage to any non-player, then 3 hits for about 30% of the initial damage each.
4. Screech: Imaginary AoE damage, 3 stacks Confusion on yourself for about 3 seconds.
5. Flee: Super speed dash in your enemies direction.

Rfreak.6591:

Guys just… since when a lvl1 in the sylvari tutorial HAS ACCESS to utilities? I thought you needed to be at least lvl10+ or smtg?

If the guy actually had access to it then it MUST be botting.

Only level 5+, but yes, they would have to have spent a long, long time in the tutorial for that to happen.

I wouldn’t worry about it considering they have very few hitpoints and die easily from most monsters swinging aoe hits.

Prolly one of the other reasons why these should have been bots instead of stationary so they follow the engi everywhere.

Nkuvu.2570:

…
I’m curious about your definition of botting, if you wouldn’t call it that. What would you consider a bot? (not trying to be argumentative, honestly curious, but words are not my friends this evening)

Botting to me means something 3rd party is used, something outside of the game itself. If you’re using the game and nothing else in order to do something beyond what was intended, it’s an exploit.

NevirSayDie.6235:

the bottom line is they are essentially not profiting from it or hurting other players.

Again I ask — where in the definition of botting does it say it needs to be profitable?

This is leveling while AFK. Slowly, but still possible. But it’s using ArenaNet’s own game play, so the question remains.

Also, in regards to not hurting other players, that’s another thing that’s nowhere in the definition of botting. And of course in the Sylvari tutorial my new characters couldn’t unlock any weapon skills before heading to the dragon. Not a huge deal, really, but annoying.

At the farm in Queensdale (the first one, with wurms) the turrets can prevent players from quickly completing the heart — turrets can target the wurms while they’re still underground. Again not a huge deal since you can complete the heart other ways, but you’re actively interfering with another player’s kills by “stealing” them first.

Of course now that we’re in the Engineer forum rather than Account Issues (where I think it’s more appropriate to ask about potentially reportable actions, thanks mods!) I doubt I’ll get a definitive answer.

Nkuvu.2570:

NevirSayDie.6235:

the bottom line is they are essentially not profiting from it or hurting other players.

Again I ask — where in the definition of botting does it say it needs to be profitable?

This is leveling while AFK. Slowly, but still possible. But it’s using ArenaNet’s own game play, so the question remains.

Also, in regards to not hurting other players, that’s another thing that’s nowhere in the definition of botting. And of course in the Sylvari tutorial my new characters couldn’t unlock any weapon skills before heading to the dragon. Not a huge deal, really, but annoying.

At the farm in Queensdale (the first one, with wurms) the turrets can prevent players from quickly completing the heart — turrets can target the wurms while they’re still underground. Again not a huge deal since you can complete the heart other ways, but you’re actively interfering with another player’s kills by “stealing” them first.

Of course now that we’re in the Engineer forum rather than Account Issues (where I think it’s more appropriate to ask about potentially reportable actions, thanks mods!) I doubt I’ll get a definitive answer.

That’s why I said I merely thought there were other issues the devs should resolve first (such as people using actual “bots,” or computer programs, to play the game for them) than turret farming, which is not significantly profitable, nor does it harm the economy or players legitimately playing the game. I never said this wasn’t “botting,” just that essentially, if I were running a company this would be the last problem I would address concerning engineers. Maybe in 2015 or 2016 they should take a look at it. It’s just not important.

White Wolf: “There is a pve timer that when you are too long afk”

^ this sums it up, in the 1st reply none the less. The player will be dropped after about 10 mins. Turret hits do not count towards the timer. What OP is proposing doesn’t work. Most likely the monster be able to kill 1 turret and after that the rest will fall instantly (unless you have 3 or more engineers working in together). Still, after 10 mins….

The EULA notes the following about botting:

Guild Wars 2 User Agreement

8. Prohibited and irreparably harmful activities concerning NCSoft

( c). Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game;

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct

20. You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot”) in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars 2. You may not assist, relay, or store gold or items for other players who are using these processes.

Based on that, I’d believe a bot is nothing more than a third party program providing an automated function at this point. I’d also extend that idling with turrets shouldn’t be suspect to an issue. What does everyone else think of this?

Orion the Cursed.1206:

What OP is proposing doesn’t work. Most likely the monster be able to kill 1 turret and after that the rest will fall instantly (unless you have 3 or more engineers working in together).

I’ll say it again. And I guess I’ll keep saying it over and over since it’s so hard to read the thread. I’ve watched an engineer setup like this. It works just fine. It’s really not hard in low level areas.

Just to double check, I even took my engineer to Queensdale. I went into Bandithaunt Caverns and dropped a rifle turret and a flame turret. Didn’t need to drop a third. The two turrets alone easily take care of any bandits. Two and three at a time, even.

I will mention that I set up traits for reduced damage to turrets (Adept level, “Metal Plating”) and self repairing turrets (Master level, “Autotool Installation”). So my current setup requires a level 40 or higher engineer.

Most of the time, the bandits attack my engineer directly rather than the turrets. And two or three volleys from the turrets will kill the bandits. My engineer isn’t taking much damage, but I could set auto-cast on the self heal skill I have if I really wanted.

Please test it yourself if you don’t think it’s possible.

The only thing that’s going to prevent this is an idle timer. My engineer has been idle for ten minutes or so, hasn’t been kicked for inactivity yet. And I seriously doubt most people have tested the idle timer with a turret setup to definitively say whether or not the turret activity counts as player activity.

But you know what? Kitten it all. Fuzzy, fluffy, adorable kittens. All over the place. I’m done talking about this. No one gives a kitten about it, so why should I worry about whether or not it’s reportable? Yay kittens.

“And I seriously doubt most people have tested the idle timer with a turret setup to definitively say whether or not the turret activity counts as player activity.”

I DID TEST IT. Twice i might add. I dropped a bunch of turrets and went to the loo. when i got back i was at the character screen. Second time, i was dead but still in the game. Do you actually think you are the first to think of something so simple? Have you ever considered that you aren’t the smartest person here? The most stupid thing about you is that you did was not actually test it yourself before you scream “exploit”.

Automating with or for , profit/gains/benefit = bot

purpose actions for gains/profit/benefit from unintended game mechanics; and anything that tips the balance of hardwork: reward is an exploit.

edit: where is the grey line?

Orion the Cursed.1206:

I DID TEST IT. Twice i might add. I dropped a bunch of turrets and went to the loo. when i got back i was at the character screen. Second time, i was dead but still in the game.

So… you can’t apparently figure out how to set it up to work? Strange. I already gave an example of two places where this setup does, in fact, work just fine. “Dropped a bunch of turrets then left” doesn’t count. You didn’t watch the game at all to see if it worked, then claim that it’s the idle timer kicking you off?

Setting it up then getting killed also implies that you’re not setting things up properly.

So no, I don’t count either of these as decent tests for the idle timer.

You’ve also left out details. How long were you AFK? If it’s five minutes, then that’s really strange, as I watched my engineer kill bandits for fifteen minutes without any disconnection due to idle timer. Or more accurately, my engineer’s turrets. I set it up and didn’t move the camera or even touch the computer during that time, just to make sure I didn’t interfere with possible idle timing.

How much experience did you gain while AFK? If that number is zero, then clearly your setup wasn’t working.

Do you actually think you are the first to think of something so simple? Have you ever considered that you aren’t the smartest person here? The most stupid thing about you is that you did was not actually test it yourself before you scream “exploit”.

Wow, you sound really angry. Calm down, sparky.

One. I have tested it myself. I could explain how I set it up again, but there’s really no need. It’s right there in that post above yours.

Two, I never claimed to be the first to think of this. In fact the reason I noticed it at all was because I saw the setup done by other people in the game.

Three, I am not “screaming” exploit. I was asking. In fact I didn’t ever call this an exploit, though I’m starting to think that that’s a more accurate term for it rather than botting.

Which also is a response to the later post, I considered this a grey area simply because it seemed to be botting, but using ArenaNet’s own tools. Looking at it as an exploit (even a trivial one since it doesn’t give anything other than experience) is a bit more clear to see.

Turret actions, in my experience, do not count as active play, so you can be disconnected during farming if using a gaggle of turrets to do all the work while you read a book/go to the bathroom/etcetera, and don’t do anything in-game for a sufficient length of time. Running out of the nest (as long as the nest is placed properly) to retrieve loot when it drops is certainly sufficient to stay in the game. Not a particularly efficient method, but it’s an effective one for offsetting crafting costs.

Could this be considered exploiting? Maybe; I wouldn’t consider it to be, given how little reward there really is in doing it. Botting? Probably not.

Its definitely not botting, but this can qualify as exploiting. Its unintended gameplay, you aren’t supposed to do it, it doesn’t matter if its slow xp, it matters that you are manipulating the game for gain without work. It doesn’t matter that theres an AFK timer if there are players doing this, for all you know maybe the dude is watching TV with a timer going off every 8 minutes so he/she can comeback and get his loot, if they come back and they got kicked, guess what, they are just going to log in and do it again.

I don’t think this qualifies as a banning offense but it should get you an infraction at the least.