Guild Wars 2

Hello!

First I’d like to say I love the idea of kits as they are now, I love the idea of playing piano whilst killing bosses and I welcome the challenge but a lot of people want to limit kits, nerf them, etc etc.

I just had a thought and I think it could be a good idea but I need criticism. The idea was kit-overloads kind of like Elementalist overloads which would put the kit on a cooldown making it less “piano-like”. I’d much prefer a change like this to just “Make it so you can only have 2 kits plz”. But I am not sure how it’d work out in the end.

Overloads wouldn’t have to be very complicated. They could even be slight variations on the toolbelt skills (or just have the toolbelts are overcharge) eg. Overcharge Grenade Kit would throw grenades around you. Bomb kit would create a huge explosion around you. Flamethrower would shoot fire around you. Elixir gun would throw out a light field or w/e. They would obviously have to be buffed but thinking about it. Seems like a decent idea, no?

So… criticism?

I don’t think they should or will change kits.
If anything, they might, hopefully, rework the medikit and improve TK autoattack.

Kits offer a different way to deal dmg, they are the engineers weapons.

They are used in the meta dps raid build because that is what that build is about, all out condi dps. They are not mandatory for a good dps (look for the plebineer, or simple rotations for engi) and you only use one or 2 for power dps… Pvp/wvw uses one, 2 or no kit at all (rifle burst spec)…

I really don’t understand why people would ask for a kit nerf or limitations. Its like asking for eles to loose their attunements.

What I would love to see is we getting more kits, so we can have access to more engineer weapons, like gatling guns, rocket launchers, etc…

lLobo.7960:

I really don’t understand why people would ask for a kit nerf or limitations. Its like asking for eles to loose their attunements. .

For Ele it’s part of their core design, all options include the attunements. For Engi it’s something that has troubled design for a long time. How do you make an Elixir which is 2 skills as good as a Kit which is 6? The versatility of kits has pushed the profession towards that direction for a long time and maximum damage almost always comes from full kits.

So, yes I agree with what you said, I don’t want to see kits go, but they are an issue and it makes sense why these proposals come out now and then. I’d imagine if the dev team had to start over they probably would have put some kind of limitation on kits, but it’s just too far gone now. And, well, kits are the reason I love Engi, so… yeah

I suppose the biggest problem is that Kits overshine the other utility skills which this change wouldn’t adress at all. When was the last time you were running gadets, etc? ^^

I think we are already starting to see part of the solution; FT kit was given a specific purpose last patch. It’s now clear where I would use that kit if I desired a specific playstyle. I don’t doubt that if this kind of thinking is prevalent and the nerve is there, we will see more kits given more specific purpose as well. On the other hand, we know things that are difficult to fix don’t get much attention, so I wouldn’t hold my breathe for some of the more troublesome items.

Since the moment Ilobo gave me an answer to my opinion fo the kits,and seeing all the kits arguments, ive been thinking if debating the kits situation its ok in general.

Let out the types of changes the community can suggest, just the kits by itself.

Is it worth to discuss kit changes or other utility buffs if people are happy with the way they are?

If so, i don’t see the point on discussing buffs or nerfs at all.

Actually, i love what each kit does, what it had me concerned all this time its the full kit use and lack of variety builds in pve.

My argument was going with the mindset of: yes, its a skillfull playstyle, but if its the only playstyle available soon or later you will feel worn out of seeing it all the time, despite of how skillfull is.

And my second concern is, due to the skillfull playstyle they promote, Anet might threat kits as godlike utilities and never suffer severe nerfs at all..

(Thing that turrets have been living, but the other way, nefrd to hell and ignored due to the skilless playstyle they promote.)

Jerus.4350:

[…]
How do you make an Elixir which is 2 skills as good as a Kit which is 6?
[…]

It doesnt need to be “as good” just situational better.
Elixirs are the buff utility, so make the buffs useful and reliable.
In a raid or group pve scenario, elixirs are not used as others on your group are pumping buffs out for you, in PvP elixirs are almost always used because buffs are great and they clean conditions when traited. You can have a full elixir build that is quite efficient, with perma quickness, stability, fury, protection, retal and 25 might.

On a power build, where you only need bombs for sustain dps and riffle for burst, you can get elixir X for breakbars and U for the reflection. Elixir U is actually really good, its a very long reflect.

Philalive.8654:

I suppose the biggest problem is that Kits overshine the other utility skills which this change wouldn’t adress at all. When was the last time you were running gadets, etc? ^^

Kits overshines other utilities because on PvE dps overshines utility and defense.
If in any instance you absolutely need more utility and dps is not a problem, you might run a gadget.
Lets say there is an encounter where you get rooted in place (with a pulsating immob) and need to avoid an AoE (unblockable) by reaching a safe zone. You could trade your bomb kit or FT for rocket boots…
Slickshoes was on the meta build for a while as it was the best way to deal with breakbars…
But the main problem is that a lot of gadgets are just subpar, like turrets, and the traits for it are also crap.

- A.E.D. needs a lower CD and remove conditions despite of the deathblow. This could open good builds with it synergy with inventions releasing you from alchemy.
– Rocket boots is already nice on overland pve, but could have an improved distance and grant evade frames and/or swiftness
– Ram needs to have improved breakbar dmg and frontal cone AoE instead of single target.
– Slickshoes nerf needs to be reverted.
– Utility Goggles needs to make your next few attacks unblockable (so it becomes a “turn the tide” skill, breaks stun and enables you to deliver burst)

Ivantreil.3092:

[…]
Is it worth to discuss kit changes or other utility buffs if people are happy with the way they are?

If so, i don’t see the point on discussing buffs or nerfs at all.

If you are here discussing things to get changes, then its not worth it. There are hardly any response to what is said here. And any suggestion seems to be completely ignored if ever is read at all.

Post here just for the sake of argumentation and further developing the understanding of the profession and its mechanics, possibilities and limitations. Dev attention seems to be non-existent.

Ivantreil.3092:

Actually, i love what each kit does, what it had me concerned all this time its the full kit use and lack of variety builds in pve.

This is a false perspective.
Just because there is one META build, doesnt mean we have lack of build variety.
There will always be a best in slot option. The other options are viable, just not best.

You can see video of raid builds using rocket boots and flame turret, with simple rotations and doing 32k dps. Is this the META? no. but its kitten good and if anyone kicks you for using it it would be absurd.

Engineer right now has quite a few variant builds for different content…
You can run scrapper FT for zergs tagging, you can run riffle+bombs for solo content, scrapper with EU for reflection, etc…

The big problem here is the perception that there is only on build, the META DPS build, and its the only thing that works for all PVE…
It is not. and you do not have 36k dps for running that build all the time…

lLobo.7960:

Ivantreil.3092:

Is it worth to discuss kit changes or other utility buffs if people are happy with the way they are?

If so, i don’t see the point on discussing buffs or nerfs at all.

If you are here discussing things to get changes, then its not worth it. There are hardly any response to what is said here. And any suggestion seems to be completely ignored if ever is read at all.

Post here just for the sake of argumentation and further developing the understanding of the profession and its mechanics, possibilities and limitations. Dev attention seems to be non-existent.

True, asking for changes are never gonna get accomplished if you simply ask it here or whatever place, but if anything, having a general concession of what we consider right or wrong it totally helps to the devs to know where to go, no matter if your opinion its in game, in the forums, or in reddit.

For example, the general opinion that all engies share that Gadgets needs some love, is starting to get reflected, as the devs said they are looking to improve the gadgets for the next balance patch.

As for what you said in my second quote, i guess you are right, maybe i haven’t seen our position in the right perspective.

Ivantreil.3092:

For example, the general opinion that all engies share that Gadgets needs some love, is starting to get reflected, as the devs said they are looking to improve the gadgets for the next balance patch.

Did I miss that? It would be awesome.
But I think you might be confusing it with the dev taht said that they didnt had time to review unused skills on the last balance patch and its something they would like to do sometime in the future, her/him particular gadgets, mantras and something else.

lLobo.7960:

Ivantreil.3092:

For example, the general opinion that all engies share that Gadgets needs some love, is starting to get reflected, as the devs said they are looking to improve the gadgets for the next balance patch.

Did I miss that? It would be awesome.
But I think you might be confusing it with the dev taht said that they didnt had time to review unused skills on the last balance patch and its something they would like to do sometime in the future, her/him particular gadgets, mantras and something else.

I did Re-read the dev comment you said, yeah, i was wrong, is likely, and wasn’t confirmed for the next balance patch, yet, i think thats still a good sign about devs knowing what its not working with us.

I have said it before but everything repeats thousands of times in this forum.

The problem isn’t with kits but with our other utilities. People had no issue taking slick shoes when it was actually good. The real trouble is that our other utilites are mostly garbage. Elixirs are rng, Turrets and Gadgets are crap and Gyros still cant follow us properly.

If they made actually worthwhile changes to our other utilies beyond “25% more damage on rocket boots” they would see use. Dont fix whats working fix whats broken.