Guild Wars 2

Thanks for recognizing that Mortar needs to be improved, but adding only 100 range to it is still not enough.

There is no excuse for an “elite” skill to have equal range to the Grenade Kit on a significantly slower attack speed.

Not to mention it has a minimum range, so you can’t even defend yourself with the knockback or heal.
Those two at least need to have zero range.

And it’s stationary but hits less than traited grenades.

pure damage wise, on brainless dummies who don’t move or don’t hit back… grenades still win on damage.
Now what if those dummies move or hit back?
Than grenades would win even more compared to the Mortar.

I’m not sure what I find more depressing: the fact they ignored it for so long, or now that they finally look at it, they come up with this very meaningless changes…
If this is what they do to ‘improve’ it, than I guess this is what they expect from the elite skill.

Absolutely terrible design there, no way around it.

I really think Anet just needs to throw out Mortar and Elixir X and give us two new eliete skills.

I find it difficult to imagine how Mortar will be more useful than just equipping a grenade kit, even if you are not traited into it. The projectile speed is it’s main problem. By the time the mortar lands whatever I’m attacking probably isn’t there anymore. In WvW, which I assume is the targeted use case for this, there are too few situations where it would be useful. Again the grenade kit or siege weapons will outdo it.

Elixir X has always just been a sad skill. Randomly borrowing one of two elites from other professions has always felt like an insult of sloppy design. Whirlpool is extremely good underwater, but not good enough to risk only 50% chance of getting it when I can just take the ever reliable supply drop.

Of all my characters, engineer is the only one where I never swap elite skills and use the same one in WvW, PvP, and PvE.

I haven’t really played the game much at all for a while, but I haven been following the patch notes periodically and it looks like Elixir X and the Mortar are pretty much he same as they always were with the same flaws that can’t really be fixed by changing numbers.

Is there any engineer that doesn’t use the Supply Drop?

Byuu.2308:

I haven’t really played the game much at all for a while, but I haven been following the patch notes periodically and it looks like Elixir X and the Mortar are pretty much he same as they always were with the same flaws that can’t really be fixed by changing numbers.

Is there any engineer that doesn’t use the Supply Drop?

sometimes in tpvp engineers use Elixir X because it gives them the option to knock people of a point.
Also because it’s an elixir after all, and it works for their HGH build anyhow.

As I said: ‘sometimes’…
I don’t think it’s common practice, and I have no clue if it happens at the serious levels.
But I’ve seen it here or there, and once or twice someone mentioned doing this on the forums.

Aside these rare cases… no, almost every engineer uses supply drop I’m sure.

I’ve seen the use of Elixir X as a underwater skill, and the tornado can be nice as an above ground skill. But the mortar… yeah that thing is unusable.

The Hermit.3542:

I really think Anet just needs to throw out … Elixir X and give us … new elite skills.

With an emphasis on NEW, and not recycled from another profession /lazy

Mortar must stay for wvw! the basic’s of mortar is great! Problem is the range. Why set mortar when u can throw nades half longer?

Chuck it and replace it with Kit refinement elite skill.

The mortar is awesome for WvW tower defense. Being able to shoot over the wall from a safe distance is great. Watching a zerg get blasted all over the place while they are cluttering around the gate is pretty funny. The bad thing about the mortar is the size of the hit box. the mortar will take damage even if you are not. What i like to do is use mortar to back off the enemy then switch to grenades.

I would love if they just removed our elites and gave us a fourth utility slot.

TBH this needs to be at something like 2000 range seriously, a mortar is a long range weapon not a short to med range. Heck even a warrior has 1500 with a rifle so what good is this?

It’s also weak so having 2k range would be perfectly fine. Try using it in WvW like I do and you will see how weak it really is….. I mean even Ele’s out range it because of the aoe size of their aoe attacks, so pointless….

I have to say I find it “ok” from walls, now. The high angle helps a lot with this, allowing me to stand behind something and attack over it.

I do agree that a base range of 1650, modified 1800 or so would be superior. 2000 would be too large IMO.

I agree on the statement of the op, based on a realistic point of view, why my arm can throw a grenades at the same range than a mortar?? make no senses, its like “forget about the mortar, just give the kitten ammo and i throw it”

Now based on the game, its like ANet doesn’t want to break the 1500 range barrier, every attack must have that range at max, even if it’s a elite skill with 0 chance of mobility. A better option would be to increase the projectile speed and reduce the cd of the shells with the trait imho, since i can’t move when i shoot the kitten thing, at least let me send more mortars on the way before every single aoe of the game rains above me (from a wvw perspective, on pve mortar it’s almost useless and since i don’t go to pvp with my engi, i can’t tell how is over there)

ikiturso.4026:

Mortar must stay for wvw! the basic’s of mortar is great! Problem is the range. Why set mortar when u can throw nades half longer?

Now there’s an idea…

Will the WvW skills work for the Mortar (as a “siege weapon”)? If it does, I can see how the elite skill can be potentially powerful.

Mortar should be dropped to a regular skill. Its bad, but atleast its somewhat fun to use from time to time and that alone is enough reason not to kill it off entirely.

I agree that Mortar and Elixir X need to go. Mortar is bad, not worthy of an Elite. Elixir X is completely uninspired, a copy/paste from two other professions. Neither of which use the elite we copy from them. Boring!

We should have our own proper elites.

Phineas Poe, they didn’t add 100 range, they moved the range trait from the Rifled Turret Barrels to the Elite Supplies. So now instead of getting range on all turrets + 15% dmg, you now only get 100 extra range and no other turret buffs. It’s actually a nerf. The funny thing is if you’re going to be on a mortar, odds are you are going to have a turret build so that you can protect yourself and deal extra damage. This trait change will now force you to sacrifice a valuable turret trait just for the added mortar range. And to add on that mortar skills are still bugged where they don’t always fire and sometimes there’s like this lag buildup where the game stacks up your attacks and like 5 seconds later a massive barrage just fires out.

Kimbald pretty much hit the nail on the head. The engineer has been looked at in the past, anet knows about our concerns, and this patch was designed to change things up a bit. Despite all that, I still feel like my original builds are the best ones. I have no need for mortar, rocket boots, or elixir gun. My standard skills I use have either been left alone or buffed, so there’s no reason for me to change anything. Had anet released the game where grenades only had a max range of 1200, then I would say the mortar would have value. By giving grenades the same max distance and making them so good, it’s really difficult to give them up.

I posted this on another thread but i reckon Mortar is salvagable. I suggested this on another thread but i think it’d be more viable if it could Crit, had no minimum range and gave some sort of Banner of Defense buff to anyone using the Mortar instead of some useless Stability.

low hp?slow fly speed?can’t move,only 1500 range,Mortar just a toy.

Does anyone else find it ironic that objects that we need to blast thru aren’t affected by conditions but this thing dies as fast as the turrets do and aren’t immune like the objects are?

It’s sad when turrets/mortar are weaker then the racial elites are. If you’re a charr you’re pretty much kittened.

Mortar needs to have a base range of 1600 and a buffed range of at LEAST 1800. You know….cause its a mortar. Hell, I’d put it to 2000 if they kept the min range portion of the skill. Also it needs to do more damage and zoom you out when you equip it so that you can hit things over a wall….cause again still a mortar.

Idk, thats just my 2 cents.

Nate.8146:

Phineas Poe, they didn’t add 100 range, they moved the range trait from the Rifled Turret Barrels to the Elite Supplies. So now instead of getting range on all turrets + 15% dmg, you now only get 100 extra range and no other turret buffs. It’s actually a nerf.

I didn’t know that about Rifled Turret Barrels. Good to know. Thanks.

Nate.8146:

Had anet released the game where grenades only had a max range of 1200, then I would say the mortar would have value. By giving grenades the same max distance and making them so good, it’s really difficult to give them up.

Well, ArenaNet did release the game where grenades had a max range of 1200. It’s Grenadier that gives them 1500 range, and a possible solution is that they nerf the trait making Mortar more viable. That’s a pretty hefty subtraction though, especially when Mortar has more issues than just its range.

I derive a good bit of pleasure from knocking ppl off ACs/walls with Mortar #5 during seiging of towers/keeps. It is more of a nuisance of course, but trolling with Mortar can be rewarding. Only other use I can think of is for dungeon bosses.

Kimbald.2697:

Byuu.2308:

I haven’t really played the game much at all for a while, but I haven been following the patch notes periodically and it looks like Elixir X and the Mortar are pretty much he same as they always were with the same flaws that can’t really be fixed by changing numbers.

Is there any engineer that doesn’t use the Supply Drop?

sometimes in tpvp engineers use Elixir X because it gives them the option to knock people of a point.
Also because it’s an elixir after all, and it works for their HGH build anyhow.

As I said: ‘sometimes’…
I don’t think it’s common practice, and I have no clue if it happens at the serious levels.
But I’ve seen it here or there, and once or twice someone mentioned doing this on the forums.

Aside these rare cases… no, almost every engineer uses supply drop I’m sure.

X is actually really good for far point assault. Whichever form you get, there’s a lot of CC.

elixir X can also be a good escape tool due to the stability it gives and the high amount of CC on both forms.

I use mortar from time to time but it is so situational and it dies so easily I really feel it is a waste to slot.

Even the coolness of letting someone else use it doesn’t really help since your better off just building an arrow cart in such situations in WvW.

I honestly don’t think the mortar would be unbalanced even with 3000 range, especially if it keeps this projectile speed. And good luck firing out more than 2 rounds before some random AOE land on top of you quickly destroying the mortar.

I have to agree with the sentiment in this post. Try as I have I cannot find the mortar useful except in extremely rare instances.

As a piece of siege it has pitiful range and does not survive for more than a few seconds. The only place I have found it somewhat useful is defending the 3rd floor of garrison against people trying to come up the ramp.

What it needs more than anything is additional range. Also I would love to see that if two players click on it the mortar fire rate increases.

You all do realise that we need to compare this with other available elites? They are almost universally trash skills… We have supply drop, perhaps one of the least pathetic elites in the game… Relax fellow engineers, we have it far better than most.

tbh i don’t even consider mortar an elite, and I’ve never seriously used it, I think it should be made to a regular skill and replaced by a better skill for an elite.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Relax fellow engineers, we have it far better than most.

Why are you saying to relax? No one is raging here. I even thanked them for this change.

I just don’t think it goes far enough. Whether or not we have it “far better than most” is totally irrelevant and contributes nothing to the conversation.

I think it would solve a lot of problems if they just made it a kit, made the projectiles fast, be able to crit, and remove the minimum range.
Survivability wouldn’t be an issue since there is no turret to destroy.
Range is less of an issue because you can move and fire, plus you can target close enemies
Being able to crit allows you to use more sigils and traits with it.
Faster projectile speed means you can actually hit something

then they need to do is remove/reduce the stability and add a cooldown to the 6th Superior Rune of Lyssa so it isn’t too crazy. There are some useful skills on it but its wrapped up in a fragile, immobile package that can’t hit anything.

Elixir X would be 20x better if it just gave stability

rifle engineer, grenade 1 damage 1700~2000+
mortar 1 damage just 11xx ,slowly speed,and 2 second cd.

i have grenade,why i need take the mortar?

SmallCat.7413:

rifle engineer, grenade 1 damage 1700~2000+
mortar 1 damage just 11xx ,slowly speed,and 2 second cd.

i have grenade,why i need take the mortar?

. . . and the Grenade Kit itself only has 1s CD compared with Mortar’s 120s CD.

Looking forward to the day ANet do a side-by side comparison of our Kits and Elites, and base their on the results of that.

The mortar needs to outrange an arrow cart for it to be worthwhile. It’s too easily destroyed and has too long of cooldown otherwise.

Fix the bugs and it could be semi-useful for condition builds.

example : Caltrops shot, leave the mortar and then throw nades.

Post that goes to more detail: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Mortar-Is-this-intended/first#post2109786

Terrahero.9358:

Elixir X is completely uninspired, a copy/paste from two other professions. Neither of which use the elite we copy from them. Boring!

The only issue I have with Elixir X is that it only has 2 elites on it. It should have 7 (one from each class except us).

Ideas:

• Rampage as One (our turrets and kits count as the pet attacks for this purpose, our weapon attacks as our own).
• A slightly modified Renewed Focus (Toolbet skills cause 25% less CD for 1 minute in addition to the invulnerability).
• A version of Spin to Win where we throw grenades to random distances.
• Mass Invisibility.
• Lich Form

Carighan.6758:

Terrahero.9358:

Elixir X is completely uninspired, a copy/paste from two other professions. Neither of which use the elite we copy from them. Boring!

The only issue I have with Elixir X is that it only has 2 elites on it. It should have 7 (one from each class except us).

Ideas:

• Rampage as One (our turrets and kits count as the pet attacks for this purpose, our weapon attacks as our own).
• A slightly modified Renewed Focus (Toolbet skills cause 25% less CD for 1 minute in addition to the invulnerability).
• A version of Spin to Win where we throw grenades to random distances.
• Mass Invisibility.
• Lich Form

Um no. Lich Form might be ok but mass invisibility would be a disaster while trying to take or hold a point.

Yeah. Pretty useless. In small engagements the Supply Crate always owns. Stun, towers(net tower – immobilize) and free heal.

Elixir X can be fun sometimes(but I usually prefer the tornado… a bit bad with the random – there should be a toolbeltmechanics with one tranformation at the basic skill and the other at toolbelt skill – so you could choose… resetting CD for both so you can’t use 2 elite one after the other).

Mortar = crap. 1500 is not enough. Grenades much better. 2000… maybe a bit better but then you just could go for real siege in WvW(that also do tons of more damage). And WvW seems the only place where you could use Mortar.

I’d prefer a movable NPC ally instead of Mortar – like elementals for elementalist, thief guild for thief…
A golem. With CC knockbacks and launch that gives protection boon to the allies nearby.

Edit: Also the Elixir X could be redesigned to work as “Elite Elixir kit” – a kit you can equip 1 time to get 5 different elixir skills being able to choose from one. Then after 1 skill use the heavy CD. Would give you 5 different elite with 1 slot where you could choose one. Lol.

I would think it could have some presence if 1. the healing mortar becomes a water field and 2. that mortar #1 is a blast finisher on every shot.

As someone said earlier, mortar don’t need a better range (since Anet don’t want to go further than 1500). In WvW you can find some spot where grenades are useless (ennemies can focus you or bring you down of the wall).

And a too big range would cause some balancing problem : I’m sure some clever Engi will find unreachable spot ^^^

But A-net definitly need to change the hit box of the mortar… or to make it tougher. I mean, when I try to use it, 95 % of the time the mortar is destroyed in less than 10 sec. And I’m still full hp ( or almost full hp).
Come on, ít doesn’t even match with the RP… the weakest part of mortar is always the operator !

and A-net should fix the animation too. Sometimes the mortar can’t fire over the tiny wall which is on the ramparts. It’s a mortar, not a rocket launcher !!

Arenanet needs to improve or redesign 90% of all classes’ elite skills. They are either too weak, have too long a cooldown, or both. The only classes with all around good elites are Thieves and Mesmers (go figure).

Truth is a decently done mortar would likely be overpowered, it is a complete failure at the moment and would be better replaced with another option.

Mortar is an artillery piece – Artillery is a weapon of war that operates by projection of munitions far beyond the effective range of personal weapons.

Its like having a jet fighter that can’t fly or a tank without armor.

The range is far too low to be useful in WvW. It’s really easy to wreck it even with 1200 range weapons. And it’s not useful outside WvW since in other modes anyone is better off using their own weapons.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Well, ArenaNet did release the game where grenades had a max range of 1200. It’s Grenadier that gives them 1500 range, and a possible solution is that they nerf the trait making Mortar more viable.

Wouldn’t matter. Try lobbing things at enemies from the keep wall. Enemy necros/eles etc will simply walk into 1200 range and drop their AoEs on you. Rangers can barrage from 1500 range.

They need to buff the range buff to Mortar to be much longer than it currently is. Sorry but 1500 range is terrible for something that can be achieved with Grenades. It’s an Elite Skill that should be buffed and when traited, should be even better.

Likewise, Elixir X needs to be changed completely. It’s pretty much worthless outside of novelty usage.