Guild Wars 2

I was doing a bit of napkin math, and it seems to me that, ignoring the potential for allies to blast the turret’s water field, Med Kit puts out significantly more HPS than Healing Turret does. Here are the results of my quick and dirty math (I ignored regen from both because regen is very easy for most classes to apply so you will likely never have JUST your regen on your allies):

Med Kit (no Health Insurance trait):
Med Blaster (no boons): 99 healing, 3 hits, 1.25s cast time = 238 HPCT & 238 HPS
Throw Bandages (no regen): 505 healing, 0.5s cast time, 5s CD = 1010 HPCT & 202 HPS
Throw Stimulant: 505 healing, 0.75s cast time, 10s CD = 673 HPCT & 67.33 HPS
Throw Accelerant: 505 healing, 0.5s cast time, 15s CD = 1010 HPCT & 67.33 HPS
Throw Antidote: 505 healing, 0.5s cast time, 20s CD = 1010 HPCT & 50.5 HPS

Healing Turret:
Cleansing Burst: 2520 healing, 15s CD = 2520 HPCT & 168 HPS

So even without Health Insurance, Med Blaster alone puts out more HPS than Healing Turret. Healing Turret definitely has more burst healing, but is the loss of overall HPS worth the burst?

Also, while the “Throw” abilities from Med Kit are all single target and thus not super useful in a 10 man group, the Med Blaster has a 5 target limit in a 600 range cone, compared to the Healing Turret’s 5 targets in a 480 radius circle. So Med Blaster not only does higher HPS even when players have no boons on them, but also allows you better control over who gets your healing (you can aim the cone) and more range on your heals.

Also, even though Cleansing Burst has a higher Healing Power coefficient (0.5 compared to Med Blaster’s 0.033), with Cleric’s gear (1200 Healing Power), Cleansing Burst only rose to 208 HPS while Med Blaster (no boons) rose to 334 HPS.

Of course there is the glaringly huge downside of Med Kit: You lose almost all ability to deal damage while you are healing people. That is why I am looking at this strictly from a raid healing point of view.

tl;dr
So I have three questions:
1) Is my math here generally correct, or did I miss something huge?
2) I highly doubt Med Kit plus whatever healing/support utilities we take will be able to match Druid healing, but if a Druid is not available, could a Med Kit engi take their place?
3) For raid healing purposes, am I correct in asserting that Med Kit beats Healing Turret?

Medkit costs engineer basicly all of their damage for some poor healing.

And with regards to it versus healing turret, healing turret has solid regen uptime 12/21s assuming you blew up the turret, higher if you pickup. And you can’t make an arguement for the throw skills on medkit when you could blast atleast 2 times in your own water field for a base 2.6k extra for every ht cast. you also have the toolbet water field which can be combo’d for another 1.3k heal if timed with FT 2. And then you have to account for all of the blasts your party could put into the water fields, which can tally up fast and all of the blasts can hit up to 5 people.

Is… is this serious?

This might work.

Under the following conditions:

-Throw Bandage becomes a water field
-Throw Bandage becomes AoE
-Throw bandage applies AoE Regen
-At least one blast finisher is added to the kit
-Toolbelt skill becomes AoE
-All the skills can be executed in less than 1.5 seconds
-Med Kit AA is able to output the full sinister DPS by itself whilst healing

The point that the snark is trying to get across in what I hope is not an overly hostile way is that Healing Turret is a contender for best heal in the game.

Most other personal heals do not even come close.

It is not that the math is wrong—although on the most basic level it is—it is also that it ignores real world situations.

Sometimes med kit better, cos engi is so sloooooow. Ally usially run away from you turrent and water combos. + Foes always will focusing at you, when too close to them.
Medkit more WvWvW skill, turrent best pvp skill (sometimes, cos now much clases can hit you by 1/3 of your max xp per hit).

Sollinton.6842:

Of course there is the glaringly huge downside of Med Kit: You lose almost all ability to deal damage while you are healing people. That is why I am looking at this strictly from a raid healing point of view.

tl;dr
So I have three questions:
1) Is my math here generally correct, or did I miss something huge?
2) I highly doubt Med Kit plus whatever healing/support utilities we take will be able to match Druid healing, but if a Druid is not available, could a Med Kit engi take their place?
3) For raid healing purposes, am I correct in asserting that Med Kit beats Healing Turret?

Just add a Superior Sigil of Water (370 heal / 5 sec = 74 hps) with let’s say FT to the HT and it already beats Med Kit while allowing you to do DPS (which will be important in raids due to enrage timers).
Then there’s traits like Soothing Detonation and Medical Dispersion Field that work a lot better with HT than with Med Kit.

Take a look at Ceimash’s guide here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3glrSTasKI
It’s for PvP but the part about maxing group aoe heal also applies for PvE.

And you can still do DPS.

Sollinton.6842:

tl;dr
So I have three questions:
1) Is my math here generally correct, or did I miss something huge?
2) I highly doubt Med Kit plus whatever healing/support utilities we take will be able to match Druid healing, but if a Druid is not available, could a Med Kit engi take their place?
3) For raid healing purposes, am I correct in asserting that Med Kit beats Healing Turret?

I’ll check your math later. As far as I’m concerned the numbers aren’t as important but there are a couple of things.

First, the comparison between HT’s 480 radius compared to MK’s 600 cone.
In a battle where you are aiming to maintain focus on your opponent, a radial coverage is far better than a cone when you don’t have much leeway to turn and aim. Especially if kiting is involved, the ability to face a certain direction isn’t something you can so easily assume you’ll be able to do. Of course, the “range” is shorter, but the “coverage” becomes a lot better. You can maintain your facing and provide benefits in an indiscriminate push. For someone who’s frontlining, this is very important to you because your attention isn’t in danger of being split and your positioning is a non-factor. Simply speaking, it’s just easier and more efficient.

Second is the balance of damage v healing. Removing yourself from your combat role to provide healing will cost your fight some seconds. In a battle against a timer, those seconds may or may not be crucial, but it’s important to remember how your team is lined up. Everyone has a heal and can sustain themselves in some way. It might not be necessary to pull yourself out of combat to sustain someone. Of course, this kind of decision only comes up when using the Med Kit. None of the other heals require this kind of management, and HT is already able to provide a lot for your team.

If you’re considering a backline, healing-priority spec for the Engineer, it’s going to take ssome time before anyone considers that a good option. As it stands, there’s not much reason to do such a thing when you can be doing considerable amounts of damage while also providing a decent group heal.

OP: Have you actually tried using the medkit in such way? And analyze your combat log, count in your lost damage output and total heal in real life situation, not just theoretical math.

Medkit #1 affects just 3 allies, not 5. In non zerging/stacking situations you are lucky to have it’s cone affect more than 2 . And it doesn’t heal the engineer at all. The engineer is not doing any damage while using it. Healing turret’s water fields + any other water fields (e.g. mortar #5, ele water staff #5 )+ lots of blast finishers is far superior. It takes much less than and affects 5 allies within the radius.

When you use medkit #1 are basically giving up doing about 3-5k AoE damage to your enemies for about 250 hp/s heal which doesn’t affect you and max 3 allies. It makes no sense in any game mode. Medkit #1 healing either needs to buffed significantly (more than doubled) and made to affect the engi as well or it should do damage + heal, like ele water staff #1.

I have made another thread, which analyses medkit vs healing turret vs other heals and I explain why medkit doesn’t work that well for real and what should be done about it.

The med kit has its uses, but it’s primarily to help the player rather than the whole team. Its best skill is the toolbelt heal with the ridiculously low recharge time, after all. It can go down to, what, like 14-15 seconds recharge time between uses? It can also condi cleanse and give fury/swift to one person.

The auto attack is flavorful and I guess could see use as healing for others during a running battle or something, but in 99 scenarios out of a hundred, you’ll likely be better off with the turret.

I just finished using the med kit in a raid yesterday. The facts are that it just isn’t as efficient as the Heal Turret. People call for waters and not Healing Blast. I did heal someone with healing blast at the very end of their life bar to keep them alive one time though, but it still wasn’t close to being as effective as the heal turret. Even in full Cleric’s you don’t get much benefit for heal blast to the point it is even moderately effective. At least with heal bombs I could dps and do 400 points of healing per bomb and heal 4k in a few seconds when I popped the quickness elixir. I hope they improve the scaling for the new skills and give an attack power converter for healing power so we can have moderate dps back.

paladinecho.3024:

I just finished using the med kit in a raid yesterday.

Is the beta up right now?!