Guild Wars 2

1. Sneak Gyro

…the end.

Seriously though, I know the hammer is nice and you get Rapid Regen and whatever, but let’s assume you could have gyros with 3 core specs, would anyone still feel compelled to go Scrapper if you could have the op-as-hell Sneak Gyro with a core engi?

In my opinion it is not a problem of the weapon per se …. hammer is really strong and usefull. I don’ play hammer not becouse it is not strong … it is the strongest weapon in my opinion … but becouse i miss pistol pistol gameplay or rifle gameplay even if i know hammer is superior in pvp .

PierPiero.9142:

In my opinion it is not a problem of the weapon per se …. hammer is really strong and usefull. I don’ play hammer not becouse it is not strong … it is the strongest weapon in my opinion … but becouse i miss pistol pistol gameplay or rifle gameplay even if i know hammer is superior in pvp .

Heh, I had the pleasure of dueling a really good hammer scrapper with my pistol/pistol scrapper a while ago (I may not be the best duelist, but I know a good player on any class when I see one). Man was that fight intense and it lasted for several minutes. Unfortunetly I have barely played with the hammer so my inability to predict cooldowns and weapon effects pretty much doomed me in the end lol. My choice is still pistol/pistol though. Love my revolvers.

stupid post :P

2. function gyro is one of the best things to happen – you can double revive, or stomp+make a pressure on downstate so he wouldnt get up

3. adaptive armor is one of the things that helps us to deal with our gratest weakness all the time – condi, so now we have a chance against necros

4. hammer is like powerbased p/s with blocks, reflects, cc, movement speed/avades and even good damage

so scrapper is best thing in 3 years to happen to us

Hammer. It’s sooo good.

Dimes.6024:

stupid post :P

stupid reply :P

Dimes.6024:

2. function gyro is one of the best things to happen – you can double revive, or stomp+make a pressure on downstate so he wouldnt get up

Which is one of the reasons why Sneak Gyro is so op, considering it’s the only gyro anyone is currently using.
But I concede the point that you wouldn’t be able to use this trait with 3 core specs, of course.

Dimes.6024:

3. adaptive armor is one of the things that helps us to deal with our gratest weakness all the time – condi, so now we have a chance against necros

Overrated. Reduction doesn’t mean immunity, especially against necros it’s either cleanse or die.

Dimes.6024:

4. hammer is like powerbased p/s with blocks, reflects, cc, movement speed/avades and even good damage

All of those you can get from other sources as well. And you might argue that having those on one weapon is more convenient, but for example switching between rifle and Tool Kit for a leap and block isn’t that much work either.

Dimes.6024:

stupid post :P

2. function gyro is one of the best things to happen – you can double revive, or stomp+make a pressure on downstate so he wouldnt get up

3. adaptive armor is one of the things that helps us to deal with our gratest weakness all the time – condi, so now we have a chance against necros

4. hammer is like powerbased p/s with blocks, reflects, cc, movement speed/avades and even good damage

so scrapper is best thing in 3 years to happen to us

how do you use your function gyro to revive? I have yet to do it.

Sanguinar.3517:

Dimes.6024:

stupid post :P

2. function gyro is one of the best things to happen – you can double revive, or stomp+make a pressure on downstate so he wouldnt get up

3. adaptive armor is one of the things that helps us to deal with our gratest weakness all the time – condi, so now we have a chance against necros

4. hammer is like powerbased p/s with blocks, reflects, cc, movement speed/avades and even good damage

so scrapper is best thing in 3 years to happen to us

how do you use your function gyro to revive? I have yet to do it.

select a downed ally, press F.

flow.6043:

All of those you can get from other sources as well. And you might argue that having those on one weapon is more convenient, but for example switching between rifle and Tool Kit for a leap and block isn’t that much work either.

sure, but u get less utility slots free then.

but if your post was bout other gyros, then yes – new utilities sux. scrapper traitline – no.

IMO it depends on what mode you want to play. While in pvp/wvw hammer scrapper is amazing, in pve the other weapons and classic builds are more effective.

It’s OP and never goes down unless you 3v1 it.

leviathan.2148:

IMO it depends on what mode you want to play. While in pvp/wvw hammer scrapper is amazing, in pve the other weapons and classic builds are more effective.

Not in the slightest. Thunderclap deals 42’000 dps, Electro Whirl 18’500, Rocket Charge 12’000, Shock Shield 12’500 against a HEAVY armor target (2600 armor). To compare, freeze grenade deals 11’000 dps. Hell even the aa is strong with 8’300 dps, nade aa is only 7’200…

As for a condi build, in raids, abandoning scrapper is abandoning utility for 10% power damage. I guess you can do the math on your own. “Mor effective” is more practice oriented. Medic gyro is the best heal skill for raids in every encounter, especially due the super speed and condi engi being the ones to go to the green fields. Having super speed for everyone makes this task easier, lets the team reencounter faster, more dps, more effective. Same goes for protection in stun phase from it’s toolbelt, also helps scholar bonus professions.

Zerg inc→ activates sneak gyro → running away laughing at them → sneak gyro get stuck on some random rock on the ravine → you unstealth and die → ppl laughing at you.

Sneak gyro – flying is a lie couse he’s walking just like you but hes projection is flying.

I’d be great if gyros in general would have some sort of max range leash, so they would never be too far behind and be pulled over cliffs and rocks etc. Would be a huge qol change. Too bad then medic and purgy wouldn’t be able ot cleanse allies … wich they kinda don’t do anyway >_> … oh and btw purgy aoe pls <3

Xyonon.3987:

As for a condi build, in raids, abandoning scrapper is abandoning utility for 10% power damage.

Power damage? Come on. Condi build is not focused on power dmg.

Xyonon.3987:

Medic gyro is the best heal skill for raids in every encounter, especially due the super speed and condi engi being the ones to go to the green fields. Having super speed for everyone makes this task easier, lets the team reencounter faster, more dps, more effective.

You’re kidding, right? Medic gyro is a solid skill, however it’s still worse than Healing Turret that provides much better heal, 2 water fields and blast + knockdown cc. Super speed does not give you more dps, you do not attack faster. Also if someone is let’s say knocked away, he won’t get super speed because he’s too far, so your reencounter argument is invalid.

Xyonon.3987:

I’d be great if gyros in general would have some sort of max range leash, so they would never be too far behind and be pulled over cliffs and rocks etc. Would be a huge qol change. Too bad then medic and purgy wouldn’t be able ot cleanse allies … wich they kinda don’t do anyway >_> … oh and btw purgy aoe pls <3

Honestly I would like to see the gyros have a pretty tight leash, almost but not quite to the point of turning us into mobile AOE effects like that new warrior torch fire field thing. Imagine an engi running at you surrounded by gyros like in that early HoT trailer. Bad kitten as well as useful.

leviathan.2148:

Xyonon.3987:

As for a condi build, in raids, abandoning scrapper is abandoning utility for 10% power damage.

Power damage? Come on. Condi build is not focused on power dmg.

That’s exactly what I said. That’s why you should pick scrapper over tools.

leviathan.2148:

Xyonon.3987:

Medic gyro is the best heal skill for raids in every encounter, especially due the super speed and condi engi being the ones to go to the green fields. Having super speed for everyone makes this task easier, lets the team reencounter faster, more dps, more effective.

You’re kidding, right? Medic gyro is a solid skill, however it’s still worse than Healing Turret that provides much better heal, 2 water fields and blast + knockdown cc. Super speed does not give you more dps, you do not attack faster. Also if someone is let’s say knocked away, he won’t get super speed because he’s too far, so your reencounter argument is invalid.

Bad arguments, let me explain it deeper to you.

For Vale Guardian, you have aoe on demand super speed. You can either use it to get to a green field, or to come back to the VG after that. If someone gets hit by a blue field, it’s a mistake on his/her own. Neither the HT, nor the gyro can help those players, but they also don’t have to. Getting hit by a blue field is something that should never happen to anyone, they are easy to dodge and blockable. In our guild we always have to pay 50 silver to the guild bank if we get hit :P The reencounter argument is when you have to take a far away green field and the tank already has to move on.
Then there is the reason of protection. When you are not breaking the breakbar for max dps, you want to have protection, yet this happens while you have to stay in a green field right before the bar appears. So revs can’t give you any, so the engis do it. It’s also a water field. Wich is the next point: Blast in a water field. You will never ever be able to blast your HT in melee due to the fields overlapping. In a 10 men raid, you will be forced to move away for blasting HT wich is a dps decrease in most scenarios. Where we are at DpS, not only is the Medic Gyro instant cast wich can save you when you are stunned or knockdowned or whatever, this also means you can attack during the time you would have to set up the HT and blast it. There is then the possibility to just leave the gyro and let it deal this huge junk of damage when he dies. Yes the tooltip is wrong, you crit up to 8’000 with it. If you are the red add, you can also blast it earlier to get a super speed field wich grants 6 sec of super speed for all engis there, wich means 3000 heal. But you can also just summon it at 50% hp of the red add, so it dies when the red add is breakable, dazing him and causing the same amount of CC the HT would, just with more heal and a protection field against the white bubbles.

This about VG. I’ve got more for Gorsy and Sabby if you want to know too, just let me know

caerulean.4837:

Xyonon.3987:

I’d be great if gyros in general would have some sort of max range leash, so they would never be too far behind and be pulled over cliffs and rocks etc. Would be a huge qol change. Too bad then medic and purgy wouldn’t be able ot cleanse allies … wich they kinda don’t do anyway >_> … oh and btw purgy aoe pls <3

Honestly I would like to see the gyros have a pretty tight leash, almost but not quite to the point of turning us into mobile AOE effects like that new warrior torch fire field thing. Imagine an engi running at you surrounded by gyros like in that early HoT trailer. Bad kitten as well as useful.

Yea that’d be the best design tbh. But I’d like to have a perfect AI that would leave me (medic gyro) when I have full HP and seek for an ally to heal him, then fast come back to me. FAST come back to me …

@Xyonon I don’t think it’s a good decision, to make one of the hardest hitting classes (condi engi) run green fields, you lose a lot of short range dps. I see your point though.

I don’t think there is even a good AI. And combined with pathing issues and slow speed, I think that the leash would be the best idea. But if it can’t be done, I’d rather have a mobile aoe that sticks to me than what we have now. (And I would love to use gyros, anything else than kits, if they wouldn’t be so stupid and slow)

leviathan.2148:

@Xyonon I don’t think it’s a good decision, to make one of the hardest hitting classes (condi engi) run green fields, you lose a lot of short range dps. I see your point though.

Just use your short range skill right before you run, then your dps will only drop slightly, yet still less than other professions like rev, war, mes. Besides VG has low armor, power professions are much stronger than condi. If there wouldn’t be a red guard, condi engis would play power too.

Kaishina.6584:

It’s OP and never goes down unless you 3v1 it.

If you play 1 vs 2 and 2 does not kill you they are quite bad … 3 …. Scrapper is really good ok , but it has , in my opinion problems :
- it misses aoe you had with nades or bombs ( sometime i miss it )
- it is boring as hell to play
It is strong , ok , but it is far less fun to play that old 2-kits build … .it is quite similar to many other melee profession … it is ok but it is not what i loved of engineer so i play something different .

what about PvE? how does a zerk hammer scrapper compare to a condi p/p?

I have to say hammer is ok but still use pistol or rifle much more. Gyros could use a tweek but are alright. Traits are good for the most part the main issue is the scrapper profession mechanic which is for the most psrt useless in pve alot of times it just is forgotten. Play it for the traits the hammer or gyros you like but as far as class mechanic not worth it

rogerwilko.6895:

what about PvE? how does a zerk hammer scrapper compare to a condi p/p?

They are pretty even – I’m on to some calculations about condi and power against the raid bosses. I’m not completly done yet, but I can give you my results. Those are max dps builds with food and buffs etc, yet without alacrity and quickness and not taken into account to swap out a kit for slick shoes!!! This will be the next step tough. So don’t take it too precise yet. All I want to say here is they are even.

Here you go:

Power Engi
versus Vale Guardian -> Dps 19396
versus Gorseval the Multifarious -> Dps 15341
versus Sabetha the Saboteur -> Dps 17798

Condi Engi
versus Vale Guardian -> Dps 17799
versus Gorseval the Multifarious -> Dps 16960
versus Sabetha the Saboteur -> Dps 17468

If you got questions, let me know.

I have only tested on the golems, but I can’t get even close to condi engi with a hammer zerk setup…

PierPiero.9142:

Scrapper is really good ok , but it has , in my opinion problems :
- it misses aoe you had with nades or bombs ( sometime i miss it )
- it is boring as hell to play

rly? man, mortar is no worse then bomb kit, it even got a water field. and using a hammer creates a lot of new combo opportunities – thats what engi is great about

Dimes.6024:

PierPiero.9142:

Scrapper is really good ok , but it has , in my opinion problems :
- it misses aoe you had with nades or bombs ( sometime i miss it )
- it is boring as hell to play

rly? man, mortar is no worse then bomb kit, it even got a water field. and using a hammer creates a lot of new combo opportunities – thats what engi is great about

In pvp nobody i think takes mortar … sneak gyro is too powerfull …. will you let sneak gyro out for mortal ? i would not … so you have no aoe …

rogerwilko.6895:

I have only tested on the golems, but I can’t get even close to condi engi with a hammer zerk setup…

I used full buffed stats in pve (without alacrity and quickness). What kits did you use?

Well, I used hammer pew pew
I hoped for an instant that engi has an alternative to nades & bombs swapping…

But then reality hit

OP if this is your -only- reason to play Scrapper, you should stop doing it. Period. And no one even mentioned Bulwark Gyro, which is the best one in the scrapper kitten nal in my opinion.

Edit: Talking from a pvp perspective.

Cele scrapper has insane sustain in pvp. And decent dmg too. Function gyro is a must to finish your opponent without having to leave your point.

For example in these days i am playing this build for my engi ( it is a classic with celestial instead of rabid for condition and i use sigil of generosity which is not in this build editor ). It is not stronger as meta perhaps but i can assure you that i win many 1 vs 1 and i have fun . Celestial condi in my opinion now is quite viable becouse you have less condi damage that rabid ones but with nades you are able to make good direct damage and it helps you a lot against Elementalists or other classes. Other than that the real problem of “Pure” condi engi is the lack of vitality. With sigil of generosity , HT and 21k of vitality you can hope to survive to condition … with 15k of rabid it is really impossible

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqalUUhSsYJXw+KQ+FLsFF4HWiBQYKeRv2XSdhdIA-TJRHwAV2fQwJAAwDA4YZAA

Scrapper is really strong but for me it si not the “only” viable build … at least for “no pro” gamers and really scrapper misses aoe … when you play something with it you feel the difference of gameplay .

PierPiero.9142:

Dimes.6024:

PierPiero.9142:

Scrapper is really good ok , but it has , in my opinion problems :
- it misses aoe you had with nades or bombs ( sometime i miss it )
- it is boring as hell to play

rly? man, mortar is no worse then bomb kit, it even got a water field. and using a hammer creates a lot of new combo opportunities – thats what engi is great about

In pvp nobody i think takes mortar … sneak gyro is too powerfull …. will you let sneak gyro out for mortal ? i would not … so you have no aoe …

As always it depends. I play 80% matches with mortar. We dont need stealth to stomp anymore, stealth prevents point capture and defence, mortar gives more team support. Not even saying that 3 waterfield leaps give u tons of heal + condi clean.

Dimes.6024:

PierPiero.9142:

Dimes.6024:

PierPiero.9142:

Scrapper is really good ok , but it has , in my opinion problems :
- it misses aoe you had with nades or bombs ( sometime i miss it )
- it is boring as hell to play

rly? man, mortar is no worse then bomb kit, it even got a water field. and using a hammer creates a lot of new combo opportunities – thats what engi is great about

In pvp nobody i think takes mortar … sneak gyro is too powerfull …. will you let sneak gyro out for mortal ? i would not … so you have no aoe …

As always it depends. I play 80% matches with mortar. We dont need stealth to stomp anymore, stealth prevents point capture and defence, mortar gives more team support. Not even saying that 3 waterfield leaps give u tons of heal + condi clean.

I tried it but i found mortar quite slow to swap and use … probably it is a limit of mine with it . I have no problem to put pressure on points with nades for exampel ( which are ground targett skills ) but i have difficulties with mortar . Usually i put a field … fire 1 or 2 shot and then switch … for pvp i find elixir X, sneak gyro or also crate better .

PierPiero.9142:

I tried it but i found mortar quite slow to swap and use … probably it is a limit of mine with it . I have no problem to put pressure on points with nades for exampel ( which are ground targett skills ) but i have difficulties with mortar . Usually i put a field … fire 1 or 2 shot and then switch … for pvp i find elixir X, sneak gyro or also crate better .

well, you know , if you have “difficulties with mortar” doesnt mean it is useless or scrapper doesnt have enough aoe pressure

Dimes.6024:

PierPiero.9142:

I tried it but i found mortar quite slow to swap and use … probably it is a limit of mine with it . I have no problem to put pressure on points with nades for exampel ( which are ground targett skills ) but i have difficulties with mortar . Usually i put a field … fire 1 or 2 shot and then switch … for pvp i find elixir X, sneak gyro or also crate better .

well, you know , if you have “difficulties with mortar” doesnt mean it is useless or scrapper doesnt have enough aoe pressure

Yes but for pvp , imho , Sneak Gyro is much stronger… it is really really op … ( too much op … )

In WvW sneak gyro is uber necessary, so to is bulwark and sort of for medic gyro. Medic’s water field, and bulwark shield tool belt skills are necessary for survival in a hard ranged fight and when water fields are needed. Same is true to the stealth reveal of sneak gyro, which makes it harder for mesmers and thieves, and other scrappers to sneak up on a blob or small group of players roaming.

I won’t say its OP, but it is highly necessary at times as most time people miss hitting me instead they hit the sneak gyro…

KayCee.4653:

In WvW sneak gyro is uber necessary, so to is bulwark and sort of for medic gyro. Medic’s water field, and bulwark shield tool belt skills are necessary for survival in a hard ranged fight and when water fields are needed. Same is true to the stealth reveal of sneak gyro, which makes it harder for mesmers and thieves, and other scrappers to sneak up on a blob or small group of players roaming.

I won’t say its OP, but it is highly necessary at times as most time people miss hitting me instead they hit the sneak gyro…

Is not better healing turret rather than medic gyro ?

PierPiero.9142:

Is not better healing turret rather than medic gyro ?

I like medic gyro for the tool belt skill cause when commanders like myself call for water, we can blast our own water field or tell others “Water field on tag, blast it” and they blast it or go without. The protection boon it offers is nice too.

I only use healing turret when I’m doing something like Claw of Jormag fights where I’m going to be stationary and trying to heal others. Medic gyro isn’t the best for that. However, in WvW or even in dungeon fights, I rather medic gyro and bulwark than to rely on the healing turret cause the reflect from bulwark gyro and the protection/water field from medic gyro’s tool belt skills are super cool and often makes it where I can out last and not be limited to the place the turret is dropped. Example, Hammer 3 skill leaps you forward, with medic gyro’s tool belt skill it sends the water field along with you at each hop and gives additional healing and others can blast it for even more healing.

KayCee.4653:

PierPiero.9142:

Is not better healing turret rather than medic gyro ?

I like medic gyro for the tool belt skill cause when commanders like myself call for water, we can blast our own water field or tell others “Water field on tag, blast it” and they blast it or go without. The protection boon it offers is nice too.

I only use healing turret when I’m doing something like Claw of Jormag fights where I’m going to be stationary and trying to heal others. Medic gyro isn’t the best for that. However, in WvW or even in dungeon fights, I rather medic gyro and bulwark than to rely on the healing turret cause the reflect from bulwark gyro and the protection/water field from medic gyro’s tool belt skills are super cool and often makes it where I can out last and not be limited to the place the turret is dropped. Example, Hammer 3 skill leaps you forward, with medic gyro’s tool belt skill it sends the water field along with you at each hop and gives additional healing and others can blast it for even more healing.

the noooobiest thing i’ve ever seen

Na, he’s actually pretty right. HT gets ourclassed in PvE almost everywhere now. You only take HT for the condi cleanse. Also a full buffed engi crits for about 8k when MG dies.

Xyonon.3987:

Na, he’s actually pretty right. HT gets ourclassed in PvE almost everywhere now. You only take HT for the condi cleanse. Also a full buffed engi crits for about 8k when MG dies.

I prefer HT by far. With medic gyro you have to take condition gyro or elixir C …. and you have to take scrapper . For pve, for me , pistol pistol with bombs, nades ,ft/eg with rampager or viper or sinister is the best …. ( explosive, firearms , inventions )

Depends on situation. Against every boss in raids, the Gyro is better than the HT. There is no need for condi cleanse and you are unable to blast the HT in that pool of mesmer wells anyway (unless you move away and deal no damage for a few sec).

Ofc there are places for HT to be, mostly fractals. Yet isn’t that exactly what we wanted? A heal skill with the same strength as HT? Finally we have it.

Xyonon.3987:

Depends on situation.

Ofc there are places for HT to be, mostly fractals. Yet isn’t that exactly what we wanted? A heal skill with the same strength as HT? Finally we have it.

Yeah in WvW, HT is not much useful unless you are using it to heal where the back line is. or do a deploy, overload, blast tool belt skill rapidly in a spar of the moment sort of thing. Gyro is more useful, but its bad too, in other situations in WvW. So its a toss up… like most things with Scrapper, its entirely situation dependent.

I do a lot of organized WvW play, therefore I don’t have to worry about a mobile water field, then I’ll use HT. However, roaming or when I don’t have a lot of eles calling out water fields, I’ll fall back on healing gyro. The overall game playstyle I have works well with Elixirs, HT, and gyros. So for me, its not so important to stick to one or the other, I change up depending on what the situation calls for or what I want to do that day.

Orange is the new Black…

… and Scrapper is the new Warrior…

Tristan.5280:

Orange is the new Black…

… and Scrapper is the new Warrior…

“Scrapper the new warrior”? Why do you say that?

KayCee.4653:

Tristan.5280:

Orange is the new Black…

… and Scrapper is the new Warrior…

“Scrapper the new warrior”? Why do you say that?

I main both Warrior and Engi. Scrapper made engi a bruiser, with the hammer, which is the sum of a lot of warrior weapons (GS, Shield, Hammer…) with the utility of an engi.

ask choovanski. He will tell you the same (more or less)

Ah I see what you mean, would explain why the hammer is the hardest hitting weapon Scrappers can use.

Tristan.5280:

I main both Warrior and Engi. Scrapper made engi a bruiser, with the hammer, which is the sum of a lot of warrior weapons (GS, Shield, Hammer…) with the utility of an engi.

ask choovanski. He will tell you the same (more or less)

But it hasnt really replaced anything – the Warrior in WvW was obsolete before the Scrapper came along. The only reason we brought warriors was for banner and perma-speed (netiher of which the Scrapper provide). Speed was replaced long ago by Guardian marks and bannering has gone out of style in favor of pirateshipping and steamroll pushes. Warrior hammer stun pushes? Oh man… that’s like years ago.

That said the Scrapper is a fun frontliner.

Dawdler.8521:

Tristan.5280:

I main both Warrior and Engi. Scrapper made engi a bruiser, with the hammer, which is the sum of a lot of warrior weapons (GS, Shield, Hammer…) with the utility of an engi.

ask choovanski. He will tell you the same (more or less)

But it hasnt really replaced anything – the Warrior in WvW was obsolete before the Scrapper came along. The only reason we brought warriors was for banner and perma-speed (netiher of which the Scrapper provide). Speed was replaced long ago by Guardian marks and bannering has gone out of style in favor of pirateshipping and steamroll pushes. Warrior hammer stun pushes? Oh man… that’s like years ago.

That said the Scrapper is a fun frontliner.

Actually, for some groups I ran with pre-HoT Warriors weren’t even sought after for banners cause when they did have fights on lower tier servers, it was more of what T2 would call a small group vs a small group. Back then we wanted Guardian more for the ring of warding thing than anything.

And yeah, scrapper is capable of frontliner, but I am still seeing people in a WvW guild I’m in are more focused on what they used pre-HoT and right after HoT released with the elite specs than putting Scrappers in the frontline Hence, why I just do my own thing and push with the frontline when I want to. Though, most in the guild know by now that I’m not squishy nor weak compared to what they claimed engi was when “They” supposedly played it. I wonder now thinking about it, if they even understood how to play engi or scrapper cause we have the highest skill curve in my opinion of all the professions.

I mostly just wish pistol gameplay were more interesting. I ran shield pistol before HoT came out, but hammer is just so fun comparitively. As far as I can tell shield pistol doesn’t even get more utility.