Guild Wars 2

What do you think about the recent engineer changes? Here are my thoughts:

Something you didn’t mention is that Elixer S is still actually NOT affected by fast acting elixers. The tooptip is, but the actual cooldown is not,

Edit: incendiary powder was not nerfed, it already had a 3 second internal cooldown since beta, it’s just a tooltip correction

Looks like Grenade and Bomb will suck a bit more in PVP. PVE seems ok for now but I don’t see myself in sPVP on my Engineer soon using Grenades and Bombs

I was expecting some bug fixes. Like Flamethrower not missing. Didn’t get that.

I was expecting skills being moved around, deleted, and added (to reduce the redundancy of many of our skills and increase functionality/synergy of skills in a kit with each other). Didn’t get that.

I saw Elementalist got their spawned weapons to have default stats… I then wondered why our Kits (if they can’t use our stats and sigils) didn’t get the same treatment—to have default stats and sigils added to benefit the kit.

I expected Tool Kit to be… I don’t know… I just expected changes there. People hate it. Even those that find it useful, find it boring. You hit people with a wrench and throw nails for monkeys sake. I might as well pick up the trash on the ground like Wood Planks and hit things with that. Just as useful and just as boring. And why aren’t we using some novel Engineer tools for our tool kit? We are using tools that a stay at home mom has—nails and wrenches.

1: I think that Anet really needs to remember their own freakin’ category designations. The Turret section of the changes includes Underwater skills, Kit changes, a couple traits and other miscellaneous non-Turret changes – there’s actually only six Turret changes in the Turret section, which includes thirteen bullet points total. Good job, Anet.

2: I think I’m going to take this next month off playing, too, since they still haven’t bothered to fix Deployable Turrets. What, since it works in Heart of the Mists, it’s not a freakin’ problem? Or is there some kind of issue making it crazy difficult for them to just make it work in the game as a whole? I once asked for an ETA on when the trait might be fixed, no response (hadn’t expected one, but they still didn’t respond – in fact, I only ever see them responding to things in more general forums [Edit: Read back a bit through the Dev Tracker, they actually did respond to something on the Ranger forums. Guess that’s…something.]). The only staff members who seem to let anybody know they look in the profession-focused areas are the moderators. I’d ask every Engineer who reads this to make a bug report about Deployable Turrets in hopes that the sheer number of voices going “HEY THIS THING IS BROKEN” would help get it addressed, or at least lead to some kind of response regarding it, but I doubt it would, so screw it. I’ve tried having patience, I’ve tried being disappointed, I’ve tried being angry – I’m not even sure what I’m feeling at this point. Impsappagry? Whatever the case, this is stupid.

3: That said, I’m glad they’ve finally started giving Turrets a little bit of a boost. Still rather they just made them work properly before they rebalanced them, but whatever. They’ll just nerf them when they’re finally properly Deployable – maybe sometime in March. At the earliest. They’re certainly not going to bother fixing it until more people use turrets in PvP.

I think that after these patch notes I’m done playing. These patch notes were mostly a joke. I only play the Engineer and see no real changes to the engineer.

After announcing Ascended Gear I was going to give ANet the benefit of the doubt. If the patch notes were good, I was gonna stay. No real fixes or changes to the engineer + Gear Treadmill = lost customer. Good job, ANet.

That we still get no weapons stats or sigils while in kits is a disgrace

Elixir S was nerfed. Damage is sometimes bleeding through it, and myself and several others have had interrupts bleed through the effect as well.

Overall I’m really confused as to what they expect engineers to do.

They nerf damage builds.
They nerf Utility builds.
They (indirectly through rune changes) nerf durability builds.

I do not see a clear role where Engineers can excel, and I see few where Engineers can even perform to par with other classes.

Hsinimod.5784:

I was expecting some bug fixes. Like Flamethrower not missing. Didn’t get that.

I was expecting skills being moved around, deleted, and added (to reduce the redundancy of many of our skills and increase functionality/synergy of skills in a kit with each other). Didn’t get that.

I saw Elementalist got their spawned weapons to have default stats… I then wondered why our Kits (if they can’t use our stats and sigils) didn’t get the same treatment—to have default stats and sigils added to benefit the kit.

I expected Tool Kit to be… I don’t know… I just expected changes there. People hate it. Even those that find it useful, find it boring. You hit people with a wrench and throw nails for monkeys sake. I might as well pick up the trash on the ground like Wood Planks and hit things with that. Just as useful and just as boring. And why aren’t we using some novel Engineer tools for our tool kit? We are using tools that a stay at home mom has—nails and wrenches.

Tool-kit is useful, you just have to think of it as a utility kit, and not as a weapon kit.

I have a feeling that thinking of the Toolkit as a utility kit would be easier if it A ) Weren’t listed as a Weapon Kit and B ) (god kitten you automatic emotes just go kitten yourselves) didn’t seem to focus on dealing damage. It gives a way to pull enemies into melee, a block, two direct damage effects, and two condition damage effects. Seems like a weapon kit to me.

I did use it for a little while as an attempt to keep my turrets up for longer, but it was pretty much useless for that.

I’d actually rather it be more of a Utility kit than a Weapon kit, myself – maybe give the ability to slap together a short-lived barricade to control the flow of battle, a better repair effect, a way to keep enemies away, etcetera. The Engineer has so many ways that a kit of just random tools -could- be awesome that “Yeah, I’m just gonna hit that guy with stuff.” “What kind of stuff?” “Well, I guess I got a wrench and a prybar. Pass me that box of nails, then I’ll have that, too.” is almost embarrassing.

What I always said pre-patch for what the toolkit needed was the 1 attack needed to be changed(it does decent damage..but we’re not exactly a class that can survive in melee range swinging a mace around), the nails need to be instant, prybar’s knockback should be restored, and the magnet either needed to be an instant or have it’s range doubled. I always mentioned the range doubling as more of a joke, but they apparently took me seriously on that one.

Now, I dance around the idea of a rifle/nades/toolkit/bombs and rifle/mines/toolkit/bombs (if I take out nades, I take 10points from explosives and put them in tools, getting the shorter cooldowns, giving me a shield to use every 16 seconds)

The former is better in more chaotic settings, and the latter is FAR superior in 1v1’s.

I think I need to start looking for a better game.

At first we weren’t a ‘top-notch’ class and still after 3 major updates we are not. Why is that? Why just some random minor bug fixes? Why?!

Call of duty four it is…

I think it’s hilarious that Arenanet couldn’t even get the Box of Nails’ AoE marker working right.

There are still quite a few bugs that need to be worked out of the class.

I’m seeing some really buggy graphical behavior when coming out of elixer S now.

That said, I’m loving running with Tool Kit and Rifle. I may experiment with P/S and Tool Kit tonight.

I’m pretty much WvW exclusive.

Anymras.5729:

The Engineer has so many ways that a kit of just random tools -could- be awesome that “Yeah, I’m just gonna hit that guy with stuff.” “What kind of stuff?” “Well, I guess I got a wrench and a prybar. Pass me that box of nails, then I’ll have that, too.” is almost embarrassing.

I kind of enjoy the wrench graphic. Smack, whack, thwack cracks me up.

Turrets just got worse – rofl.
Grenades our main option just got worse.
Nothing about kit stats & runes got fixed.
None of the important bugs got fixed.
None of the important weapon and kit skill balancing happened
miss miss miss issues were missed…
Looks like various of the very few engy builds took a range of nerfs, without new worthwhile builds becaming viable.

I think A-net need to source some devs (e.g. class balance guys from Shadowbane) and hire them in to fire-fight their balancing process. A-net sorely need some really experienced devs who can get a lot of viable builds across many classes into much much finer balance inside weeks not years.

I think it’s pointless giving feedback.
3 months with glaring bug fixes (or at least zero feedback regarding them)

I think my time with this class and time in WvW means very little to this company.

now we can be paratroopers!!
Death from Above!!!

Kalan.9705:

Grenades our main option just got worse.

How so?

The damage reduction is only in spvp/tpvp and it was necessary it’s all ready the highest sustained damage ability in the game it has an inflated scaling ratio to compensate for the lack of weapon stats/sigil.

Grenades now travel faster to hit their targets it is very noticeable and grenade barrage now properly benefits from traits. Both of which directly increase our damage output.

Edit: incendiary powder was not nerfed, it already had a 3 second internal cooldown since beta, it’s just a tooltip correction

In beta it didnt have any cd , and later on they put a 4 internal cd , without showing in the tips :P
Its a stealth buff (if u have enought crit) , for the nerf of grenades and for some other specs :P

MariuszGGG.3892:

now we can be paratroopers!!
Death from Above!!!

New Elite skill. Hot air balloon. – Floats in the air for 30 seconds.

Riot ArenaNet pls

Engineer is being killed with every patch. Now when i want to use my grenade skills its like debuffing myself by 2000 hp, 128 power etc.

Well I’m guessing one of the things holding them back from making sigil and weapon stats work on kits is the balance. If they just did it without doing anything. Nades would get even more out of hand. Once they get the rifle weapon damage and stats. Also having the sigils proc with them. There will be very little reason damage wise to switch out of the Nades kit.

Now the following is my opinion on how they could address these things:

1. Allow kits to gain from the base stats on the weapons. Much like they did with ele conjured weapons. In exchange you lose sigils(Maybe allow runes/jewelry there instead) Basically making rifle/pistol/shield a stat stick when kits equipped/

2. Redesign kits so that u can equip lets say 3 and swap between them much like other classes. inherit all weapon features

3. Move kits more into a utlity type thing by removing their auto attack function and just make it 5 utility skills. This way u dont spend much time in a particular kit. inherit all weapon features

Just some food for thought.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Well I’m guessing one of the things holding them back from making sigil and weapon stats work on kits is the balance. If they just did it without doing anything. Nades would get even more out of hand.

I’m sure this is largely part of it since there are many kits and a lot of testing to be done with each one if stats/scaling is adjusted. However even if they allow stats from a weapon to come through with a kit equipped that can be compensated for by simply reducing the scaling ratio to an acceptable figure which is still a “time” issue as it needs to be tested. However it’s just conjecture on our parts they haven’t really communicated anything to us. There are definitely a lot of ways to deal with the issue it would just be nice if they spoke with us on it.

It also needs to be kept in mind not everyone is using weapons for damage stats too some people rely on toughness/vitality on weapons as well you can lose literally thousands of HPs switching from Standard Weapon -> Kit and if you’re low on health all ready when that happens it’s not pretty.

My opinion just turned into a “Why… just… why?…”

After being so hyped about hearing engi would have gotten those so waited fixes, I visit the forum page, check for updates… OMG the 15th nov. update! I read it… slowly and I notice I didn’t read anything about flamethrower or jump-shot, so I read it again, ‘coz it couldn’t be… I stay silent… for about 5 mins then go back to study, with a sad feeling though…

We’r left with nothing new, I mean, ok they made turrets available… just in pvp ok but that’s a start I guess… too bad most people won’t use’em anyway ‘coz of the LONG CD they take (seriously why? why would they keep the shared CD on turret death) not to mention accelerant-packed turret trait, I’m wasting a whole utility, I deserve to get the blowout knockback without a CD, especially if I use multiple turrets and they retain the shared CD, what if I wanna blow’em up all together? just 1 explosion? seriously? I can’t even check which one caused the actual explosion and I’m left clueless about their actual trait-CD, USELESS.

I mean I’ve been waiting for these dam bug fixes since day1 and they are still to be addressed, I don’t care about people crying saying we’ve been nerfed ‘coz that ain’t true, we simply traded some damage in order to make granades “sufficient” for pvp (though I’m still not rly confident with that, at least a continous grenade barrage, not the skill, can scare some people either seige a crowded place but the nerfed damage kinda hurts, I actually don’t see the reason of it…).

Why just why the flamethrower AND jump shot have yet to be addressed? WHY??

Flamethrower means a WHOLE weapon set in my opinion, trust I’m one of those that uses its utility the most, but having those kittenarget bugs simply make it useless on slightly mobile targets in pvp (which ultimately means useless in general ’coz any1 with half a brain kites when possible), not to mention the STILL completely broken skill-2.

If you didn’t know yet there’s a flamethrower pve-bundle that even other classes can use, to try it check around the claw of jormag event, you’ll notice it has a JUMP SHOT, WORKING! on top of it, why would we deserve a broken one?

Last but not least: we are simply left clueless as to when would those fixes ever happen

^This is my opinion

I at first I thought the changes looked bad, but in use, i actually like them. Play mostly WvW with a grenade spec (30/0/20/20/0). First, i can hit people much easier now with the faster toss speed (not faster cast) also the increased range for the tool it magnet skill is fantastic for pulling people off walls and stopping people from getting ways. almost too good honestly. magnet pull, grenadge barage, freeze grenade, blunderbuss, hip shot, net shot, jump shot, overcharged shot. still have supply drop and box of nails if you still need to stop them from getting away.

of course this patch didnt really change much to this but the added range for magnet (of walls is so easy now) and the easier grenade hits (at least for me) makes me pretty lethal in WvWvW.

completely agree, X is almost never used. I’ve used the supply drop like consistantly…and it’s not that much of an enhancement to get a rifle turret as it’s traited extra supplies…seriously, it needs more love.

there are a ton of problems with targeting on kits…they needed to address those FIRST since they’ve been in the game since before launch.

grenades…..they might as well have taken them completely off the class along with the elixir gun, the flame thrower, and every other kit they’ve nerfed to oblivion since start…..the only viable option to trait into now is bullets. seriously that’s it and here’s why.

grenades you have to manually press 111111111 and point with a mouse that continuously disappears in large groups, bye bye farming in Orr.

FT/EG consistantly misses when you strafe. Seriously, I moved an inch, that’s not far enough away for the next 8-10 attacks to say miss miss miss miss miss miss miss miss smh

can’t trait into anything that gives us bleed or poison abilities because quit simply they don’t do a darned thing for damage compared to burning. since when has anyone in RL been able to shrug off belladonna or hemlock like they are a mosquito bite. really?
Or get hit by a mine but still run around like Honey boo boo child on her speshal drink? yeah useless….

For support: why do four abilities from four of the healing skills all use the same regen buff? Who thought of that? AND why don’t using these skills do a heal when used and then a regen? Doesn’t make any sense.

I’m going to come up with a list of all of the traits that pretty much are useless and no one ever uses and compare them to their equivolents in other classes so we can see exactly where the inconsistencies are.

Instead of fixing the common problems we have, they decided to nerf the abilities that keep us alive while we contend with the bugs and issues we have had with this class since day 1.

I think NOT a SINGLE person at ANET in the dev department actually plays this class. It’s that obvious.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Well I’m guessing one of the things holding them back from making sigil and weapon stats work on kits is the balance. If they just did it without doing anything. Nades would get even more out of hand. Once they get the rifle weapon damage and stats. Also having the sigils proc with them. There will be very little reason damage wise to switch out of the Nades kit.

This line of reasoning is bullkitten IMO because it is purposely putting Engineers at an uneven level. If balance was an actual concern, you would implement a mechanic across the board and THEN balance abilities (read: give everyone use of sigils/weapon stats and then balance other abilities around that). You don’t purposely exclude a profession from a major mechanic — that creates imbalance itself.

Edit: I want to just state that I am not saying you are “bullkitten,” because you were just bringing up a perceived issue. I think the rest of your post is spot-on in your analysis.

pulling and 3 sec block from toolkit is pretty for mass pvp in WvW . the rest i dont feel so much

Your looking at it the wrong way guys; it not that engineers didnt get any of the fixes they need, its that Anet kittened over all th class by forming a balance team of 2 guys to fix all the class bugs in the game. it must be hard to get that many bug fixes done.

You should give our 2 balance devs a round of applause. And demand the immediate firing of every other director/lead/manager because one of the should know better

BTW – did u notice – no flamethrower fixes but they have nerfed inc ammo. NICE heh.

maciora.9542:

BTW – did u notice – no flamethrower fixes but they have nerfed inc ammo. NICE heh.

thats what the icd has always been, it finally is in the tooltip

I always had an odd love for the Tool Kit, so those buffs make me smile.

The sad part is that I am seriously thinking of giving up my flamethrower since they didn’t adress that at all.

In terms of fun factor, I play my engineer for the kits, that’s the main draw for me.
I love having a ton of options (was playing a hunter in WoW which has about the most keybinds there, so I wanted something with a lot of skills to pick from).

So yes: I expected more from this patch, aside my Tool Kit being better now there isn’t much else for me…

Kimbald.2697:

I always had an odd love for the Tool Kit, so those buffs make me smile.

The sad part is that I am seriously thinking of giving up my flamethrower since they didn’t adress that at all.

In terms of fun factor, I play my engineer for the kits, that’s the main draw for me.
I love having a ton of options (was playing a hunter in WoW which has about the most keybinds there, so I wanted something with a lot of skills to pick from).

So yes: I expected more from this patch, aside my Tool Kit being better now there isn’t much else for me…

Same here I played an engineer hunter since day one in WoW. one of the very reasons i stopped playing WoW is they never addressed the sheer stupidity that used when they nerfed engineering tools.

The same thing is starting to happen in this game now. Why is it so hard for people to actually develop a game where the engineering or technical classes aren’t borked and remain in oblivion forever?? is it too much to ask to make an engineering class that’s not pigeonholed into a single role or that has so many bugs that we see countless patches of content before the bugs that have been there since beta are fixed properly We are paying customers.

-Grenades got better imo. Grenade barrage, our highest damage skill, got buffed. Grenade travel time was reduced. In wvw and Pve grenades got a straight up buff.

-In spvp grenades have a higher burst (thanks to grenade barrage buff) and faster travel time at the expense of 10% damage. In spvp Burst>sustained damage, so I’ll take this change.

-The smoke bomb nerf ticks me off a bit, but honestly Big’ol bomb was left untouched, and that was bomb kit’s largest contribution to our node defense build. Concussion bomb was also left untouched so on balance it was a modest nerf.

-The toss elixir-r nerf isn’t that big a deal, and will be a fairly impotent change, but I’m not gonna give anet any ideas as to why.

-Toolkit was fairly worthless before the patch. Now it’s a gimmick kit. Meh.

Tbh though, I really like the new grenade barrage.

Maybe the grenade nerf, is not a big deal but I (and I’m sure a lot of others) am having a hard time sticking with a game that makes it a point to nerf one of the least played professsions (ANET hint: most played profession generally equates to it being superior in at least one aspect of gameplay, and how many warriors, thieves, mesmers are there compared to engineers?).

To compound this we didn’t get any major fixes. I think most engineers would have been alright with a slight nerf to grenades if kits actually worked with weapon stats/sigils but to lower damage before you implement scaling…really?

</Rant off>

grenades are only nerfed in sPvP – and they deserve it there.

Hey there,

grenade dmg got nerfed pretty bad and i`d like to argue that there was no reason to do so.

Classes with a serious damage focus still deal the same serious damage that the engineer was capable of pre nerf. Like warrior/mesmer/thief – they are all still insanely viable to nuke the living kitten out of defs even with full toughness gear (will need 2 of the aforementioned classes and stunlock/interrupts or poison).

That alone should be enough to allow engineer to keep his damage. Because even when we still had 10% more damage we were only able to apply it when the enemy was immobilized or slowed and out of endurance!
It is pretty much impossible to hit a target moving at full speed! (if the target can actually play)

This is not because of the travel time for grenades – when i play nades i run an as close as possible against ALL ranged enemies – the issue is the animation that comes before the grenade is actually thrown! This animation takes a pretty long time!

^Thief and Mesmer do not have these Problems and Warrior only has them because the warrior has very little options in terms of CC.

Not only that but unlike thiefs/rangers Grenade engineer was never able to apply poison over a LONG amount of time unless you play with the horrendous pistol shield as weapons which honestly i personally will never understand how anyone can use them for any other reason than poison and poison only. And in case you go pistol shield you again lose A LOT of CC which in turn again is NECESSAIRY to apply any damage at all.

I`m not even going to mention how easily all the net abilities of the engineer are dodged.

So in conclusion – why nerf a spec that is ALREADY so much inferior to other damage specs?? Where is my perma poison? Where is my perma invisibility so i can survive with my glasscannon grenade build? Where in gods name is my Portal and Aoe haste ultimate? There is NO reason to choose grenade engineer over ANY of the other classes soooo you nerf it?

Rifle + Grenade was and still is one of the most viable sPvP builds. It’s burst could get out of hand sometimes so it was pulled back a bit. We were given increased nade speed to compensate which helps with dps and actually hitting your target.

“…when i play nades i run an as close as possible against ALL ranged enemies…”

^ There’s your problem.

I am aware it’s sPvP only. I’m sure you’re right – it was deserved because it has been engineers completely dominating the sPvP scene since release with their awesome damage output.

@RaynStargaze.6510

your enemy is terribad if he manages to get hit by grenades, ‘coz hitting with’em means hitting sitting ducks, the faster projectile patch was indeed needed, I have to agree about the damage nerf tough, as kits still have to retain stats from the weapon, no point nerfing if there’s still TONS of important things not working.

thankfully this only affects pvp ppl.

no nerf at all for pve ^-^ yay

well if u ever got to play a grenade engie at 1500 range when you your team attacks the enemy that is turtleing at the point, then u will understand why the dmg was reduced. it was like chucking nuke grenades.

besides who cares its only pvp thats affected and not pve. just roll a warrior for pvp if your that upset.

Cast time has nothing to do with actually hitting enemies.

The grenades have a random dispersal pattern.

If the grenades travel faster that pattern is harder to predict & dodge. This means more grenades hitting their targets.

As I pointed out to the OP – the speed increase can best be seen at max range. If you’re using nades exclusively at point blank, you’re doing something very wrong.

Anyone else got their life nerfed after today’s small update? I had 27500 and now its 25000 which is making me very unhappy at the moment. Additional other nerfs and kitteny adjustments to our class this one made me a very PISSED engineer….

Grenades were/are horribly op.
However, they nerfed the wrong thing.
Nerfing grenades at their base level effects how they preform untraited, as well as fully traited.
This is the main flaw with engineer design atm. supposed to be versatile, be able to swap kits, use mutiple kits.. but we can’t. you cant run grenades without grenadier, flamethrower without juggernaut, turrets without deployable, tools without power wrench, etc. So instead of versatile builds we need to be super focused. If I play my mesmer, I can go confuse build, with almost any weapon. Phanstasms with any weapon. Glamours with any weapon, etc. Traits effect a wide range of weapon builds. Glamours are eth fields, and phantasms do whirls, leap and projectile combos for more interrelationships.

back to grenades.
Grenades being super op lies largely with 2 traits.
Grenadier and steel-packed powder.

Grenadier is the single strongest trait in the game.
Default is 2 grenades. 1200 range.
Grenadier adds +1 grenade. Its easy to overlook exactly what that means.
50% damage upgrade. 1 is 50% of 2. Imagine it said + 50% damage, and + 300 range. People would clue into how absurd a trait it is a bit more.
But even then, if it were + 50% damage, it would be less powerful then it is now.
Shrapnel bleeds, frost chills, blind blinds, poison poisons.
+1 grenade means frosts 4s chillx2 giving an 8s chill, is not 4sx3, for 12s chill.
shrapnel is now 3 bleeds, not 2.
3 hits per throw. This is compounding. Its not just +50% damage.

Grenade attack is .8s. Same as pretty much everything.
Having 3 hits per .8s.
Steel packed powder. 5s vul ever explosion. +cond duration. 6.5s just by traiting down explosives. This trait was not designed for grenades AT ALL. even at x2 its op. But with x3 and grenade barrage its completely broken.
6.4s at .8s/throw is 8 throws. 8 throws is 24 hits. 24 stacks of vul in 6.4s with grenadier. AoE. Name something else that even comes CLOSE to that.

Grenade barrage. 8 grenades vs 6 with grenadier. yeah. 8 stacks of vul in .8s, on top of its damage. Again, steel packed was not designed with grenades in mind at all.

Sharpshooter. 10 points in firearms gives 33% chance on crit to place a bleed. Again the problem here is 3 hits per throw, or 8 with barrage.

30 point explosive grenades are 88% stronger then 20 point explosive grenades.
Think about that design. clearly flawed. 10 points nearly double your power.

Grenade damage scaling in pve. I have not tested claims of pvp changes.
g1 is .478 per. x2=.956, x3=1.434
g2 is .524 per. x2=1.048, x3=1.572
g4 is .478 per
barrage is .357, x6=2.14, x8= 2.856

Notes say -10% to g1, g4, and barrage. and 15% to g2. That would be .430 and .44 respectively. however, I see equal values on damage. so one of those was not true.
let me check. in mists.
g1 is .429
g2 is .429
g3 is .429
barrage is .356
Dirty liars. Barrage didnt change at all. g1, and g4 lost 10.2%, ok.
g2 lost 18%

The nerf to g2 was justified.
g1 has 150 aoe.
g2 has 180, does 2 or 3 15 second bleeds(at 30 explosives), and was scaling at 18% more. on a 5 or 4s CD. Its a crazy powerful skill.
3 15s bleeds, on a 4s CD. That is 12 stacks of bleed alone.

Continued here….

Kits versus weapons. The only thing keeping grenades remotely balanced was the kit vs weapon damage, and loss of stats.
Imagine if/when they fix that?

Rifle 1 is .599 every .8s. Compare that to g1’s 1.434. (And vul stacking..)
The skill coeffs are clearly not comparable.

But a rifle is 1205 max damage vs kits 969. 19.6% difference.
Effectively meaning that .599 is * 15% due to damage being:
skillcoeff*weapon damage*power/armor=damage.

But even with that weapon damage, grenades are still clearly outscaling other weapons by incredably large amounts.
And other kits are completely trivial in comparison. bombs, flamethrower, EG.
FT1 is 1.43 over 2.5. G1 does more in .8s, then FT1 does over 2.5.
Over that same 2.5s G1 will do 4.3.
If you have ever heard me railing on how FT is broken, there you go. Even without the vul stacking grenades to 3times as much damage at FT.

If kits get fixed to have ascended/exotic levels of weapon damage, then grenade scaling will be out of control. So, at that point, yes grenade base damage will need to be reduced.

But right now. as stated .599 rifle +15% exotic rifle. .688 scaling.
Nerfed grenades without grenadier . 429×2= .858 scaling. While the scaling itself is still higher. The amount of scaling is not really on par with ground targeted projectile nature, and of course the loss of stats.

I don’t how any one could defend timewarp+grenadier as not being completely op.

WvW bonus, why not do some research?

It was not WvW bonus, it was in PvE. And no bonus – I always had 27k until today.

maciora.9542:

It was not WvW bonus, it was in PvE. And no bonus – I always had 27k until today.

No. wvw realm bonus. wvw awards stats to your entire world, not just WvW.
one of those is life up to 10.