Guild Wars 2

Can you please put a cap or something on the amount of retaliation dmg you take?

In WvW our best kit (grenade kit) as well as flametrower are completely useless with the amount of retal dmg you take.

Trowing a grenade barrage into a zerg instantly kills me. Surely this can’t be intented? I know there’s barely any engineers left a part from HGH engi’s in spvp, so maybe you weren’t aware of this issue.

Something has to happen about this though.

Yeah I don’t think it was intended to be used the way it is right now, just like I dont think 60+ person zergs were intended to be the easiest way to roll in WvW.

Cap or something would help.
I would rather it be like a single use boon, you get Retaliation and when you get hit it deals damage and you lose it.
It could even stack in intensity as long as it is balanced.

Otherwise when a zerg has Retal you better just try and pick off stragglers rather than try and tag as many as possible.

both Retal and Confusion need a simple fix simply add a 1-2s cooldown upon damaging. because as it stands its no wonder everyone is going mesmer in wvw phantasms have perma retaliation so bam all mesmers drop clones at gates and anyone dumb enough to attack instantly dies.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Images

Fix? Retaliation is a pretty good defense against burst specs. Saved my bacon against thieves and shatter mesmers several times. So if they “nerf” retaliation, they better nerf burst specs too.

Eviator.9746:

Fix? Retaliation is a pretty good defense against burst specs. Saved my bacon against thieves and shatter mesmers several times. So if they “nerf” retaliation, they better nerf burst specs too.

that is another thing that needs fixing as well other than pretty much guardians and necros and maybe d/d eles having toughness gear is near useless because the game is too focused on raw damage and well condition damage ignores armor

Eviator.9746:

Fix? Retaliation is a pretty good defense against burst specs. Saved my bacon against thieves and shatter mesmers several times. So if they “nerf” retaliation, they better nerf burst specs too.

I don’t understand how putting a cap on retal would change anything in small skirmishes… All it would mean is that you don’t have 600 300’s ticking every nanosecond when you trow a grenade into a zerg.

Confusion and retaliation are the Guild Wars equivalent of thr adolescent favourite “stop hitting yourself”.

This happens in sPvP too. When assaulting a point that had a guardian and a couple mesmers, 2-3 tosses of grenades got me down to half hp from the retaliation alone -_-

Well it is intented i suppose. But its due for a revision. A lot of players clustering up should be punished for standing in AoEs, and by AoEs. Instead the player using the AoE on a cluster of enemies who are sitting there eating it, is getting punished.

And if Retal was actually a tactical choice i could handle it. But with so many guardians pooping light fields all over the place. Just a few accidental, unintented, blastfinishers and a whole zerg runs with retal. Just… as a side effect from people facerubbing a gate or something. No thought or skill involved.

Retalition works quite well in WvW for anti AoE porpuse, so the theory behind it is actually great, same goes for the glamour confusion mesmers doing AOE confusion! It’s designed to punish players spamming AOE Skills (and skills in general with the confusion)

The problem is, that it also (at least I hope so) uninteded punish Engineer for using FT and Nade kit useage in these situations a lot more then other AoE skills, seeing as a normal AoE skill would hit 5 targets and tirgger 5 retalition hit’s, one throw with nades will trigger 15 hit’s! Which I’m sure everyone can agree on is the trible amount of damage as the rest!

So while the theory for retaltion in WvW at least is to be a “sort of” counter to AOE damage, and that’s a good thing, it punish people that do AoE with multi attacm skills way to much, even when the multi hit attacks (like at FT Auto attack), ain’t even doing as much damage as some other AoE skills!! So that’s where the problem is, not that it works unintended on AoE skills, but it does so on multi attack AoE skills!

No! just no.. Retal needs a 100% damage buff so other classes can kill us faster! and then we can use our down #2 to pull them to us and save them the walk so they can safely finish us off! every class has a purpose in game and if you as an engi aren’t dying! then you’re not fulfilling your role good sir! /sarcasm

:P!

but yea.. 1s cd on the boon would be nice

Amadeus.5687:

:)

But, AoE is by design intented to punish targets that clump up. So why do we then give the targets who clump up a trump card to beat back what originally was intented to counter them?

Which AoE damage will still do Terra, but AoE shouldn’t be spammed mindless either, which Retalition helps with! I know from what I read in the sPvP forums AoE spells is running crazy there as well! Also in WvW the only real defence you can give your 3 guys on the rams trying to get the gate down is retaltion! The way WvW is played a lot of the time, you need to group up in larger groups, and I don’t really see it as a probelm that Random AoE damage spam get hit, but it’s a problem how our multi hits attack suffer for it

Basically the things that need to be adressed

Mesmers i’d say as normal retaliation has 10s duration and probably about 30-40s cooldowns however when it comes to defending or attacking gates mesmers simply throw 3 illusions at the gate with Permanent retaliation each so thats 3 retaliation stacks per mesmer.

the second thing to fix is obvious add an internal cooldown to both Retaliation and confusion damage confusion as it is is broken:
you take damage for dodging attacking healing changing kits( in the case of engineer)
so either you sit and die or you kill yourself .

I’ve never had problems with retaliation in wvw with my ft, and i zerg dive all the time. Maybe it’s because i got into the habit of hauling kitten when i hear the retaliation noise.
confusion dmg is too much tho, but if its nerfed I’ll miss my perma confusion build XD

Would rather the damage of confusion scale better with condition damage, but when you cast a spell it removes one stack of confusion from you instead of waiting out duration.

Retal is a good idea to prevent people from mindless spamming but it was poorly implemented because people just mindlessly apply it. It again encourages the zerg. Internal CD would make sense but would ruin 1vfew tactics. I think prioritizing to make sure you only take damage from one retal every cast should work. So just cap the damage. A person with retal up getting hit by a ranger barrage should be able to damage that ranger every single hit.

I vote for Pie without cooldown for Engineer only to counter retaliation like pre nerf.
Maybe a Gear Pie or something. :F

Im with you on this Engineer is the only class that is suited for Defensive play on gates but yeah once i gotten crit buff enemy stacked I took like 50 k damg in one sec . While we are at it WE need to remove elemental Spell hitting behind the gate there should be a line sight blockage. ITs already bad enough having to deal with retal damg as a defender.

Ever tried a Ranger with Barrage on a zerg?

12 waves hitting up to 5 Targets = 60 * retal with one Skill, if you have bad luck.
(60*250=15000 Damage)

It have to be retal/used skill, not retal/hit.