Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it stupidly.

Fixed that for you.

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it. Meanwhile, other AoEs do more damage with less hits and are safer. I honestly don’t think the drawback is properly designed.

As Obtena pointed out, you can use it, and it’s really good when you do, but if you aim it at a crowd that all has retal up, then yeah you’ll kill yourself.

The thing FT has that other AE’s don’t is the ability to keep the pressure going. Drop wells/meteor/lava font/thunderclap/whatever ae field and players can just dodge out or through. Melee trains you can dodge to the side or through and be out of range. FT with it’s range the enemy dodges and I can still hit them, anything in front of me is going to be getting a solid amount of damage pushed on them. The enemy would need to double dodge through to get through unscathed but then I can just turn around and I’m applying damage again, no need to catch up like with a melee weapon.

That’s the strength of FT, and why not having retal as a counter would probably leave it too strong.

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it stupidly.

Fixed that for you.

Thank you for the very objective and serious argumentation.

Is there any skill comparable in other professions? (Other skill where retaliation of AoE kills you if you “use it stupidly”?)

“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it. Meanwhile, other AoEs do more damage with less hits and are safer. I honestly don’t think the drawback is properly designed.

As Obtena pointed out, you can use it, and it’s really good when you do, but if you aim it at a crowd that all has retal up, then yeah you’ll kill yourself.

The thing FT has that other AE’s don’t is the ability to keep the pressure going. Drop wells/meteor/lava font/thunderclap/whatever ae field and players can just dodge out or through. Melee trains you can dodge to the side or through and be out of range. FT with it’s range the enemy dodges and I can still hit them, anything in front of me is going to be getting a solid amount of damage pushed on them. The enemy would need to double dodge through to get through unscathed but then I can just turn around and I’m applying damage again, no need to catch up like with a melee weapon.

That’s the strength of FT, and why not having retal as a counter would probably leave it too strong.

I agree FT auto could easily end being too strong. That being said, I still think it is not balanced well enough. IMO the counter is too big, and too common exactly in places where you should be able to use that sort of pressure.

“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it stupidly.

Fixed that for you.

Thank you for the very objective and serious argumentation.

Is there any skill comparable in other professions? (Other skill where retaliation of AoE kills you if you “use it stupidly”?)

I already provides LOTS of argumentation in this very thread and others on why this isn’t a problem related to FT. Not may fault if you didn’t bother to read it. Bad decisions and stupid actions should result in losing in PVP. That’s why there isn’t a problem here. That’s the way it SHOULD work.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

So it hits a lot, for not so much damage, but it kills you if you use it. Meanwhile, other AoEs do more damage with less hits and are safer. I honestly don’t think the drawback is properly designed.

As Obtena pointed out, you can use it, and it’s really good when you do, but if you aim it at a crowd that all has retal up, then yeah you’ll kill yourself.

The thing FT has that other AE’s don’t is the ability to keep the pressure going. Drop wells/meteor/lava font/thunderclap/whatever ae field and players can just dodge out or through. Melee trains you can dodge to the side or through and be out of range. FT with it’s range the enemy dodges and I can still hit them, anything in front of me is going to be getting a solid amount of damage pushed on them. The enemy would need to double dodge through to get through unscathed but then I can just turn around and I’m applying damage again, no need to catch up like with a melee weapon.

That’s the strength of FT, and why not having retal as a counter would probably leave it too strong.

I agree FT auto could easily end being too strong. That being said, I still think it is not balanced well enough. IMO the counter is too big, and too common exactly in places where you should be able to use that sort of pressure.

I can agree there, but as was brought up earlier, it’s more of a retal design problem than a FT design problem. As it stands I still can find uses in WvW, but I view it more as a mop than a weapon, using it to clean up rather than as a full offensive frontline tool. It can actually be pretty nice against a squirelly backline.

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Ezrael.6859

Ezrael.6859

Whirling Wrath on a Guardian GS will also cause suicide if used against 5 retatalited targets, as it’s 14 hits per target.

Using it blindly is bad.

Retaliation and Flamethrower 1

in Engineer

Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

Whirling Wrath on a Guardian GS will also cause suicide if used against 5 retatalited targets, as it’s 14 hits per target.

Using it blindly is bad.

Thank you, Ezrael. I don’t play Guardian: how is Whirling Wrath normally used?

Are there more examples? It would be nice to know how well(or bad) balanced is retaliation in other cases.

“Only problem with the Engineer is
that it makes every other class in the game boring to play.”
Hawks