Guild Wars 2

My favorite build on my favorite class has been gutted.

I’ve played GW2 pretty hardcore when it was launched and continued for quite some time. A few months ago I decided to take a break, only to come back and see that Turrets are completely ruined. I noticed that Rifle Turret no longer bled, and Rocket no longer burned.

After research I found out that they instead scale with power now, but their damage is laughable. Testing things out on the PvP dummies with Berserker gear really hit it home.
Time it took to kill the Heavy Dummy. Overcharges included, as well as Rifled Turret Barrel trait.
Rifle: 1:58.5
Rocket: 1:06.4
Thumber: 2:20.3

Turrets used to be great, they were my favorite build… now i guess I’ll go back to HGH in hopes of maybe one day turrets are useful beyond pushing people around with a trait.

Ruined? How so? As far as I can tell, they have done nothing but buff them regularly over the past few updates.

They have, they are still a shadow of what they once were. Anet is making turrets tankier, which turret’s have needed for a while, but they do no damage whatsoever.

If there was a trait that brought back the bleed and burn I’d gladly take it… even if i had to waste 30 points into Explosives.

How much DPS did you do before you left compared to now?

The rocket turret alone was able to burn a glass cannon thief down to 70% in a single shot+burn. I usually never complain about engineer issues but this threw me over the edge.

I’m trying to find a semi-decent way to use the new turrets, i really am….. they are weaker than they ever have been in my opinion…

I am asking for numbers because you were gone for a good while. In my experience, memory gets skewed over time. I do not know how your determining your damage in relation to thieves for example.

In my memory I won tournaments constantly, but I can say that even with Zerk gear the physical damage of Rocket Turret is only about 30% higher than what the old Rocket Turret did, not including the burn damage (which was most of the damage.)

Rocket Turret seams to be AoE now, which is cool i guess. Something as little as a trait adding a 2 second burn to that AoE would make it worth it.

What was the burn damage that was removed from rocket turret?

Yeah it is AoE, but I do not personally care for the new rocket turret functionality.

it used to be a 3 second burn, and Rifle turret used to have a 3-4 second bleed on each overcharge hit

Zaviel.1245:

My favorite build on my favorite class has been gutted.

I’ve played GW2 pretty hardcore when it was launched and continued for quite some time. A few months ago I decided to take a break, only to come back and see that Turrets are completely ruined. I noticed that Rifle Turret no longer bled, and Rocket no longer burned.

After research I found out that they instead scale with power now, but their damage is laughable. Testing things out on the PvP dummies with Berserker gear really hit it home.
Time it took to kill the Heavy Dummy. Overcharges included, as well as Rifled Turret Barrel trait.
Rifle: 1:58.5
Rocket: 1:06.4
Thumber: 2:20.3

Turrets used to be great, they were my favorite build… now i guess I’ll go back to HGH in hopes of maybe one day turrets are useful beyond pushing people around with a trait.

Turrets do not scale on power. There was a time where the tooltips were displaying values that were based on the user’s power – but still doing static damage. Your rocket should hit dummies for around 1300 whether you’re completely naked, or completely berserker.

3s burn at 750ish a burn is 2250ish. What is a glass cannon thief’s HP? 10,000hp-12,000hp ??

I an just having trouble buying that the rocket turret lost 5k damage output in its attacks.

They don’t really scale with power, the tooltips just look like they do, I think.

Here’s the numbers on the tooltips when I went to test this, with and without PvP Berserker’s Amulet:
Rifle Turret: Without 183, With 367
Rocket Turret: Without 548, With 1,100
Thumper Turret: Without 244, With 733
Regardless of damage suggested by tooltips, their damage was the same in all tests:
Rifle Turret: Light 566, Medium 532, Heavy 476
Rocket Turret: Light 1698, Medium 1598, Heavy 1428
Thumper Turret: Light 754, Medium 710, Heavy 635

In light of this, I really don’t think they’ve implemented power-scaling yet. I’m not sure whether they intend to, even, or if they’ve just broken tooltips again.

Anymras.5729:

They don’t really scale with power, the tooltips just look like they do, I think.

Here’s the numbers on the tooltips when I went to test this, with and without PvP Berserker’s Amulet:
Rifle Turret: Without 183, With 367
Rocket Turret: Without 548, With 1,100
Thumper Turret: Without 244, With 733
Regardless of damage suggested by tooltips, their damage was the same in all tests:
Rifle Turret: Light 566, Medium 532, Heavy 476
Rocket Turret: Light 1698, Medium 1598, Heavy 1428
Thumper Turret: Light 754, Medium 710, Heavy 635

In light of this, I really don’t think they’ve implemented power-scaling yet. I’m not sure whether they intend to, even, or if they’ve just broken tooltips again.

seams that you are right :/ who’d have thought that GW2 has miss-leading tooltips right?

This post… lol

I have played engi from beta, turrets were stronger at one point but never have they been viable. You could “make them work” you still can but the suck now… Always have. If your mad about changes to aditonl burning read up on dec 10th patch notes and you will really cry. Overall I feel like engi is in a good place right now and upcoming changes aside (prolly won’t be a big deal btw) we are one of the stronger pvp classes. Don’t. Ty for turrets it is just in bad taste.

The Inc. Powder change does really upset me… it has been a great staple in my old CondiTurret build as well as my Pistol HGH… I could still use it with HGH but at the cost my my pistol attacks piercing, which cripples another build i love.

I fail to understand how the changes promote build diversity when every single build I love to play is/will be ruined </3 I hate using kits but by Dec 10 any non-kit build will be useless except for Static Discharge…

Surprisingly most of you still doesn’t understand Anet’s definition of “Build diversity” lol

Turrents are still can be destroyable too easily at wvw and arenas and dungeons !!! So these buffs are useless ;and turrents are not giving good damage too…

Turrents’ cooldowns should be more less – rate of fire should be more faster – the damage given by turrnets should be more really !!!

Once the enemy come near you at engineer – you die too fast for sure ;and enemy is giving better damage than you : instant much damage !!! If I am wrong say it here too…

imo the turret fix should be: Fix bugs then give em the same damage they do underwater.

And I’m also disappointed that rocket turret and rifle lost their condition damage in favor of vulnerability/more straight up damage

Zaviel.1245:

The Inc. Powder change does really upset me… it has been a great staple in my old CondiTurret build as well as my Pistol HGH… I could still use it with HGH but at the cost my my pistol attacks piercing, which cripples another build i love.

I fail to understand how the changes promote build diversity when every single build I love to play is/will be ruined </3 I hate using kits but by Dec 10 any non-kit build will be useless except for Static Discharge…

It seems more like anet probably doing unintended coercion to use turrets by nerfing condy. I hope they leave Incendary powder an adept tier and will move empowered Exploit Weakness to master tier for example.

Yeah I’m disapointed too,

That patch pretty much ruined my Turret Engineer, I was playing Pistol/Shield and Rocket Turret was my main source of Burning damage.

I have tried alternate builds with a Rifle, but the damage just isn’t there anymore, even with all my turrets up.

Also I have to disagree with posters saying they got improved on the long run, they lost most of their control power. Rocket and Net turret used to CC targets twice when overcharged now rocket turret only shoots 1 overcharged rocket and the net turret is so broken it gets stucked and doesn’t shoot anymore. Not to mention, Net Turret fire rate bug got normalised to 13sec (instead of getting fixed) while it was supposed to shoot a net every 10sec. Rifle Turret lost its bleeding damage for a weak vulnerability application while a ton of skills already apply vulnerability in a way more effective way.

A-net was going forward when they improved Healing Turret and made the others of them scale on condition damage. Now they made two step backward and created even more broken powers (rocket turret toolbelt underwater…), not to mention the broken new AI, while still not having fixed turrets most important bugs like overcharges, firerate, hitbox, etc…

Zaviel.1245:

My favorite build on my favorite class has been gutted.

I’ve played GW2 pretty hardcore when it was launched and continued for quite some time. A few months ago I decided to take a break, only to come back and see that Turrets are completely ruined. I noticed that Rifle Turret no longer bled, and Rocket no longer burned.

After research I found out that they instead scale with power now, but their damage is laughable. Testing things out on the PvP dummies with Berserker gear really hit it home.
Time it took to kill the Heavy Dummy. Overcharges included, as well as Rifled Turret Barrel trait.
Rifle: 1:58.5
Rocket: 1:06.4
Thumber: 2:20.3

Turrets used to be great, they were my favorite build… now i guess I’ll go back to HGH in hopes of maybe one day turrets are useful beyond pushing people around with a trait.

Did you try them combined? Because I think it’s quite silly that you’re taking just one turret and expecting it to kill things fast.

Dirame.8521:

Zaviel.1245:

My favorite build on my favorite class has been gutted.

I’ve played GW2 pretty hardcore when it was launched and continued for quite some time. A few months ago I decided to take a break, only to come back and see that Turrets are completely ruined. I noticed that Rifle Turret no longer bled, and Rocket no longer burned.

After research I found out that they instead scale with power now, but their damage is laughable. Testing things out on the PvP dummies with Berserker gear really hit it home.
Time it took to kill the Heavy Dummy. Overcharges included, as well as Rifled Turret Barrel trait.
Rifle: 1:58.5
Rocket: 1:06.4
Thumber: 2:20.3

Turrets used to be great, they were my favorite build… now i guess I’ll go back to HGH in hopes of maybe one day turrets are useful beyond pushing people around with a trait.

Did you try them combined? Because I think it’s quite silly that you’re taking just one turret and expecting it to kill things fast.

I did use them together, I ran Healing Turret, Rifle Turret, Rocket Turret, then Elixer C for condition removal. I’d sometimes use Net Turret over Elixer C, but Turret builds have issues with conditions.

The removal of the conditions they apply neuters the damage output of turrets… I want to use turrets and I want them to be good…. I can only lie to myself so much as I try and make a new viable turret build.

Why would you bother with elixir c to remove conditions when you have the healing turret? It removes conditions fairly well on its own, and your losing a slot for another turret.

Healing Turret is only 2 every 15 seconds, that is very little condi-removal. Facing up against a condi-thief or necromancer would have eaten me without Elixer C.

Popping Elixer C as they do their condition burst will negate most of their damage, all the while my turrets would be bleeding and burning.

I can see about condition removing turret too. Too late for many situation.

And … About Autotool installation, it’s not work with Mortar right? so it’s not turret?

they didnt nerf the turrets, they just defined their roles better

rifle for steady single target
flame for burn
rocket for long range AoE (toolbelt is similar to big ol bomb damage now)
thumper for tanky
net for…netting

previously the rocket turret was directly better than the flame turret at both direct damage, bleeding and even had a knockback for utility…

however the problem now is their cooldowns arent equal to one another even with their now specific roles.

and i think they can actually scale now…

Stalima.5490:

they didnt nerf the turrets, they just defined their roles better

rifle for steady single target
flame for burn
rocket for long range AoE (toolbelt is similar to big ol bomb damage now)
thumper for tanky
net for…netting

previously the rocket turret was directly better than the flame turret at both direct damage, bleeding and even had a knockback for utility…

however the problem now is their cooldowns arent equal to one another even with their now specific roles.

and i think they can actually scale now…

Rocket turret used to be single target, so in 1v1 situations it was better. Flame Turret pierces though, so it AoE burns. Against minion necros Rocket Turret was useless, whereas Flame Turret won the day. Each had their perfect situation.

Their roles were already defined plenty :/ and they do not scale yet even though the tooltips say they do.

Stalima.5490:

they didnt nerf the turrets, they just defined their roles better

rifle for steady single target
flame for burn
rocket for long range AoE (toolbelt is similar to big ol bomb damage now)
thumper for tanky
net for…netting

previously the rocket turret was directly better than the flame turret at both direct damage, bleeding and even had a knockback for utility…

however the problem now is their cooldowns arent equal to one another even with their now specific roles.

and i think they can actually scale now…

They don’t scale to anything that isn’t Condition Damage, Condition Duration, Healing Power or Boon Duration. Somebody broke the tooltips. Again.

Problem I have with turrets is that a couple whacks and there gone. Similar to a Mesmer clone. Yet mesmers can keep making clones over and over where my engi gets stuck with a long cooldown. I was in spvp the other day trying out builds. I was using soilders trinket and got hit by a Mesmer clone for 4.5k and crippled.

Yeah, turrets are

Thumper Turret: 11950 50s
Flame Turret: 8960 25s
Rifle Turret: 7470 20s
Net Turret: 7470 30s
Rocket Turret: 7470 50s
Healing Turret: 5980 20s

Clones also vary

Clone (PvE) 4,096 (WvW)2,304
Phantasm (PvE) 7,955 (WvW)3,332
Illusionary Defender (PvE) 19,943 (WvW)8,354

Looks like phantasms are relatively congruent to turrets. Clones are a bit more paper. 6 of phantasms have 20s CD ( 2 are 30s, 1 is 25s, 1 is 18s)

Mesmers can make clones on dodge though. Staff #2 is a clone and a retreat 8 second cooldown. Scepter #1 makes a clone every 3 seconds or so. Good mesmers can keep clones/phantasms up pretty much indefinently. Turrets also sit in one place and become useless if the fight moves outside its range.

Right, they can make clones easy, I get that. All I am saying is that clones do zero damage themselves, and have 40% less HP then most turrets. All of that information is untraited though.