Guild Wars 2

VakarisJ.5619:

Zinwrath.2049:

But even if i did that only leaves toolkit which is a poor mellee ranged fighting kit and grenade kit which is an unreliable long range kit.

The grenade kit is as reliable as your arm. If one can’t aim – the other won’t be able to either.

Lyuben.2613:

I can see why they didn’t.

If it is indeed true that engineers were originally a heavy armour class, and had shotguns.
Then I guess during the stages of designing what an engineer could do, they never said ‘long range’.

You’re closer to the truth then you think on that one – google “Guild Wars 2 Commando”. It was a joke class created by Anet for april fools and yet – it’s like a heavily-armored engineer. I believe that the whole joke was a hyperbolized concept that they scrapped to make the engineer as he is now.

Lyuben.2613:

What I’m annoyed at is how Arenanet announced grenades, as if they are viable at 1200+ range.
Please don’t say and pretend that it is the case. It isn’t.

Grenades are still short-med range.

Read the first, non-quote, line.

I like that thats all you pulled out of my post. But like all the other “i just wanna make a point elitists” i see you need further explanation.

your rifles hip shot at 1200 range will always hit its target given they do not use their dodge mechanic or terrain to obstruct.

Grenades have slow travel time and do not auto lock onto the player. So no matter if you can aim where they are at, you have no control on which direction they will go after you cast your ability, it is within their ability to switch directions after seeing where your grenades are going or predicting where your grenades are going thus never being hit by them at all without the use of terrain or dodge. You can argue “i see into peoples minds and always know where they will go 100% of the time so i never miss” and you would sound like a psychopath or an enormious self-ego-stroking elitist. But realisticly you will not hit everytime, because you dont have telepathy, You can only use intelligent guessing….guessing because you have no absolute way of knowing and because of the travel time they have PLENTY of oppurtunity to last minute roll or just flat out move out of the way.

So because of this VERY large difference between hip shot and grenades…..grenades is less reliable especially at long range. Sad i had to point this out tbh, but you asked for it. So please stop pretending to be blind to this obvious difference that goes beyond “just lrn 2 play” that you like to blab around to make yourself feel smart.

I’d prefer the main attack became more shotgun-y. Thieves would be a better sniper than engineers, to me… they have the option to just expend all their points (whatever it’s called, I forget now) very quickly for a lot of damage, which would fit quite well with a sniping skillset that had mostly high damage, point-expensive attacks.

Engineers already fire the thing from the hip… making it a shotgun would be pretty fitting IMO. And it wouldn’t even need to change more than one skill, the rest are already pretty handy for mid/close range.

Zinwrath man you really need to calm down, btw I do agree with you grenades aren’t that useful on ranged mobile targets.

LameFox.6349:

I’d prefer the main attack became more shotgun-y. Thieves would be a better sniper than engineers, to me… they have the option to just expend all their points (whatever it’s called, I forget now) very quickly for a lot of damage, which would fit quite well with a sniping skillset that had mostly high damage, point-expensive attacks.

Engineers already fire the thing from the hip… making it a shotgun would be pretty fitting IMO. And it wouldn’t even need to change more than one skill, the rest are already pretty handy for mid/close range.

There is truth to this in theme. a theif does give the feeling of wanting to pick someone off with little risk to himself so i totally agree on that. But its the engineers who are wanting it. Lets assume tomorrow they put in sniper rifle for the engineer. Would you quit playing it? would you quit playing the game? Would you just never equip the sniper rifle? would you turn a 180 and realize its actually fun and say F-it and use it all the time?

There is no harm in them having it if thats what they want as far as i’m concerned. You just need to theme it to them. Instead of their abilitys being described as long range well aimed attacks. We describe them as using a rifle that has self aiming capabilitys. What if hipshot was called ’steady shot" or “aimed shot”. The ability would remain the same but suddenly you would argue differently about whether he should have it or not.

Often when considering a change to a game “if your a real developer” its best to weigh pro vs con….fun vs anti-fun. How would putting in this feature make the engineer less fun vs more fun. As described earlier it doesnt make it less fun for people who dont like it as they can just choose not to use it, for those who want it it makes the profession more fun. You simply balance it and adjust its abilitys to sound like something it should be doing with that weapon. The only way it would be anti-fun if it’s existance made it dreadfully hard to deal with for other classes…if that happend you would need to balance it so it doesnt, give it an obvious downside to its strengths.

My point is you can put in a sniper rifle type weapon for the engineer and just put in the tooltip an explanation of why hes able to do X attack that fits his theme and bam it works.

Magic Night.1308:

Zinwrath man you really need to calm down, btw I do agree with you grenades aren’t that useful on ranged mobile targets.

First i like ranting dont take it personally its fun for me, and second thats because your not an idiot. Which is why it was annoying when you kept going around saying (hunters are the ranged role) when you should know especially if you played one…that no class has a set role. Hunters can be mellee or mid range as well if they choose…infact the most popular competitive weapon choices are 1hnd sword, and short bow atm. I play a greatsword using one so i’m a mellee hunter (used to be the strongest option for them back in early beta). Other professions all have several roles they can fill as far as melle, mid range, long range.

But if you want my personal opinion…i think the reason engineers DONT have a long range weapon is the same reason they dont have a mellee (once again not including kits). We do not get weapon swapping (which i assume is balanced by our toolbelt allowing us too many options). So if your a profession with only one weapon…you do not get the luxery of a hunter who can go short bow untill someone gets up next to you then whip out your sword and unleash hell on them. So it makes most sense to give them weapon options that are decent at most range. This is just my opinion. But it makes the most logical sense to me.

Zinwrath.2049:

Magic Night.1308:

Zinwrath man you really need to calm down, btw I do agree with you grenades aren’t that useful on ranged mobile targets.

First i like ranting dont take it personally its fun for me, and second thats because your not an idiot. Which is why it was annoying when you kept going around saying (hunters are the ranged role) when you should know especially if you played one…that no class has a set role. Hunters can be mellee or mid range as well if they choose…infact the most popular competitive weapon choices are 1hnd sword, and short bow atm. I play a greatsword using one so i’m a mellee hunter (used to be the strongest option for them back in early beta). Other professions all have several roles they can fill as far as melle, mid range, long range.

But if you want my personal opinion…i think the reason engineers DONT have a long range weapon is the same reason they dont have a mellee (once again not including kits). We do not get weapon swapping (which i assume is balanced by our toolbelt allowing us too many options). So if your a profession with only one weapon…you do not get the luxery of a hunter who can go short bow untill someone gets up next to you then whip out your sword and unleash hell on them. So it makes most sense to give them weapon options that are decent at most range. This is just my opinion. But it makes the most logical sense to me.

You can like ranting but not all people would feel comfortable with it, just don’t take things too seriously. About rangers usually I see them with a short bow the most, not sure about swords but guess I missed that.

I assume you’re saying engineers don’t have long range is due to it just doesn’t fit for them, though I believe the devs made us this way is b/c it’s mainly based on history and RPing.

I think history and RP takes a play in the theme of the classes. The reason i know the playstyles are built around balance though is because this game was designed with a heavy emphasis on being an E-Sport. They even have a team dedicated to getting it all set for that. So they’re gonna make their absolute decisions on whether a class should be able to do this and that based upon what would work for SPVP.

Its like the bomb kit, why on earth should i be dropping charges at my feet that are about to go off in less than a second. From an RP stand point that seems stupid…but its an effective method for fighting. I’m surprised that the npc engineers in the world like the asura/char can create helicopters, tanks, laser cannons, portals and golems. Yet we have no access to these things. Heck they even have sniper rifles in some places…. so from an RP stand point if the npc’s in the world can i would argue i could to, but …maybe they’re saving stuff for later.

About the tanks, choppers and lasers I think it’s just for a bit of fun and jokes, other MMOs sometimes have stuff like this. I believe the devs would still prefer to focus the class and gameplay mechanics based on the history and lore of the game. This is just the feeling or impression I have from them b/c when I read the engineer lore they gave a pretty good reason why this class was created saying 200 years have passed between GW1 and 2 and having engineers and guns to exist seems pretty rational.

well, you strike me as someone who hasnt got level 80 and did the entire story. I dont want to give spoilers but when you get to the last parts of the story and intot he 80 zone, you’ll see that they’re all about using advance technology created for this war against the dragons so…lots of tanks/copters/airboats/missles/lasers you name it. I could go into more detail but i dont want to spoil it for you.

Lol that does sounds kinda funny though, but I’d still hope all those high tech stuff would stick to the story instead instead of applying it to the classes, else it’ll just feel really weird when we classes have modern technology and some still wield swords and stuff.

I think what annoys some, at least it annoys me, is the way Rifle skills are meant to be used. Optimum is to jump shot to mob, blunderbuss, OC shot, net shot, hip shot until cooldowns are up. It’s just annoying combat IMO, I enjoy my warrior more who can work at a distance and has the one distancer (rifle butt) if he needs it. I don’t want to worry about jumping in or out of a bad situation, adds, mobs around me, off a cliff, etc.

I don’t use rifle much anymore, if at all. I started out hating grenades, but as I played I realized how incredibly powerful and much better of a weapon they are than the rifle, even the CC is pretty nice, Chill is quite an awesome debuff especially when it’s an aoe debuff. Still, I wouldn’t mind the option to use rifle once in a while for fun, but I feel like it’s such a large step down from grenades I don’t even bother.

Magic Night.1308:

Lol that does sounds kinda funny though, but I’d still hope all those high tech stuff would stick to the story instead instead of applying it to the classes, else it’ll just feel really weird when we classes have modern technology and some still wield swords and stuff.

Try to think final fantasy. You had dark mages, guys with gattlin guns/pistols and guys with giant swords. While i agree i expected things to be more like what you are trying to describe and probably woulda prefered it, i’m just being realstic to the fact they’re going with a Final fantasy style of mixing in futuristic technology thanks to the introduction of the asura and their theme of being an advanced sci-fi styled race.

Zinwrath.2049:

I like that thats all you pulled out of my post. But like all the other “i just wanna make a point elitists” i see you need further explanation.

If I only ripped that part out of your post and didn’t reply to the rest, then either I didn’t find the need to reply to the rest or I didn’t feel it was necessary to quote to get the meaning.

Zinwrath.2049:

your rifles hip shot at 1200 range will always hit its target given they do not use their dodge mechanic or terrain to obstruct.

Grenades have slow travel time and do not auto lock onto the player. So no matter if you can aim where they are at, you have no control on which direction they will go after you cast your ability, it is within their ability to switch directions after seeing where your grenades are going or predicting where your grenades are going thus never being hit by them at all without the use of terrain or dodge.

Also, grenades do almost 4 times as much damage as the rifle (3 grenades, that do 120% the damage a rifle does, summing up to 360%, or 3.6 times), you’d think it would warrant some skill.

The grenades travel at a decent enough speed and player movements tend to be predictable — all you need is a frost nade and they’re sitting ducks for an incoming barrage of everything you have. Also, you throw nades fast enough to be able to throw them into multiple places in quick succession, due to the fact that grenades split apart on travel, at least one or two will always connect if you’re a decent enough of a grenadier.

Zinwrath.2049:

You can argue “i see into peoples minds and always know where they will go 100% of the time so i never miss” and you would sound like a psychopath or an enormious self-ego-stroking elitist. But realisticly you will not hit everytime, because you dont have telepathy, You can only use intelligent guessing….guessing because you have no absolute way of knowing and because of the travel time they have PLENTY of oppurtunity to last minute roll or just flat out move out of the way.

Well, I have a knack for arc-based weapons, what can I say?

You aren’t supposed to hit every time, the grenades do enough damage for you to miss a few shots and still come out a victor with little issue.

If you really want to see slow travel time, look at guardians’ foci.

An other factor is the fact that players don’t usually look at the sky, else their view of the ground is obstructed. They will not be able to effectively track the nades’ flight path to clear out of the blast zone every time.

Zinwrath.2049:

So because of this VERY large difference between hip shot and grenades…..grenades is less reliable especially at long range. Sad i had to point this out tbh, but you asked for it. So please stop pretending to be blind to this obvious difference that goes beyond “just lrn 2 play” that you like to blab around to make yourself feel smart.

“Grenades is”? Well that’s a knife to my eye.

You didn’t point out anything new, you’re just repeating the same old sludge, that I’ve addressed several times already.

Funny, how you and your “anti-elitism” were missing when I fought for speedy kit’s 5 second duration swiftness and 5 second cooldown to be merged into a constant swiftness while using a kit. That was a real issue, the issue of having to spam kits every 5 seconds in order to regain something that becomes ready for use as soon as it ends, it was an issue of annoyance that was very easy to address and had no side effects at all (no, it wouldn’t have given perma vigor, you’d still have to spam for that, as that trait has it’s own, separate cooldown and activates on acquisition of swiftness).

Unlike with speedy kits, tossing grenades at long range doesn’t create unnecessary completixy, given how it compensates for the difficulty with the grenades’ huge DPS. While they are a lot easier to use close range, I see no reason why you couldn’t be a champ and learn to use them effectively, especially since the opponent is blindsided to the grenades’ flight path already.
At worst – play with an ally and have him distract the enemy, while you shell him with your artillery-like grenades. Always start with frost.

Rick.1378:

I think what annoys some, at least it annoys me, is the way Rifle skills are meant to be used. Optimum is to jump shot to mob, blunderbuss, OC shot, net shot, hip shot until cooldowns are up. It’s just annoying combat IMO, I enjoy my warrior more who can work at a distance and has the one distancer (rifle butt) if he needs it. I don’t want to worry about jumping in or out of a bad situation, adds, mobs around me, off a cliff, etc.

I don’t use rifle much anymore, if at all. I started out hating grenades, but as I played I realized how incredibly powerful and much better of a weapon they are than the rifle, even the CC is pretty nice, Chill is quite an awesome debuff especially when it’s an aoe debuff. Still, I wouldn’t mind the option to use rifle once in a while for fun, but I feel like it’s such a large step down from grenades I don’t even bother.

It has a lot of utility and free peircing is its upside. The downside “imo” is jumpshot in spvp is difficult to use due to how sloppy it is. I hate that you hang in the air for 1/2 a second after teleporting to where your going…its like saying “one last chance to dodge this attack!” it almost requires the person to be immobilized for any hope of landing. It is however our only jump finisher which makes it really cool.

I feel blunderbuss damage should be increased on the power side and maybe lowered on the condition side to even it out. As rifle is geared towards power builds and the only reason to want to apply bleed is for the extra damage you do to bleeding targets in the firearms tree. But seeing as you have to be right in their face to even get decent damage out of it, i would like this change (keep in mind it also has a cast time which is time your not just using hip shot) So the pay off feels just slightly less than it should be. I could be wrong thats personal feelings though.

Vakarisj

All i read was a lot of fluff to over site the fact i pointed out that grenades are less reliable which was my only point to be made. Its unargueable. Do they hit harder yea, is it possible to hit people who are immobilized..yes. Anyway i’m not gonna break down how you agreed with me then shifted to talking about other perks to kits that i wasnt argueing or bringing up other stuff to distract from it, but glad we see eye to eye despite your long distraction post.

Zinwrath.2049:

Vakarisj

All i read was a lot of fluff to over site the fact i pointed out that grenades are less reliable which was my only point to be made. Its unargueable. Do they hit harder yea, is it possible to hit people who are immobilized..yes. Anyway i’m not gonna break down how you agreed with me then shifted to talking about other perks to kits that i wasnt argueing or bringing up other stuff to distract from it, but glad we see eye to eye despite your long distraction post.

Yes, well, like I said — they’re only as reliable as your arm. The kits paragraph wasn’t meant to distract, it was meant to address you calling me an elitist and a narcissist.

Rick.1378:

I think what annoys some, at least it annoys me, is the way Rifle skills are meant to be used. Optimum is to jump shot to mob, blunderbuss, OC shot, net shot, hip shot until cooldowns are up. It’s just annoying combat IMO, I enjoy my warrior more who can work at a distance and has the one distancer (rifle butt) if he needs it. I don’t want to worry about jumping in or out of a bad situation, adds, mobs around me, off a cliff, etc.

I don’t use rifle much anymore, if at all. I started out hating grenades, but as I played I realized how incredibly powerful and much better of a weapon they are than the rifle, even the CC is pretty nice, Chill is quite an awesome debuff especially when it’s an aoe debuff. Still, I wouldn’t mind the option to use rifle once in a while for fun, but I feel like it’s such a large step down from grenades I don’t even bother.

That’s fine. Play your rifle warrior and grenadier if you like that. I don’t like those at all because I find them boring as hell and I’m not willing to trade that for whatever increased effectiveness they might have, but I’m not going to ask for them warped to fit my style. I’ll just play hammer warrior once in a great while. Nothing needs changing here.

It always makes me sad when fun is tied to effectiveness, ease of use, big numbers.

Haette.2701:

Rick.1378:

I think what annoys some, at least it annoys me, is the way Rifle skills are meant to be used. Optimum is to jump shot to mob, blunderbuss, OC shot, net shot, hip shot until cooldowns are up. It’s just annoying combat IMO, I enjoy my warrior more who can work at a distance and has the one distancer (rifle butt) if he needs it. I don’t want to worry about jumping in or out of a bad situation, adds, mobs around me, off a cliff, etc.

I don’t use rifle much anymore, if at all. I started out hating grenades, but as I played I realized how incredibly powerful and much better of a weapon they are than the rifle, even the CC is pretty nice, Chill is quite an awesome debuff especially when it’s an aoe debuff. Still, I wouldn’t mind the option to use rifle once in a while for fun, but I feel like it’s such a large step down from grenades I don’t even bother.

That’s fine. Play your rifle warrior and grenadier if you like that. I don’t like those at all because I find them boring as hell and I’m not willing to trade that for whatever increased effectiveness they might have, but I’m not going to ask for them warped to fit my style. I’ll just play hammer warrior once in a great while. Nothing needs changing here.

It always makes me sad when fun is tied to effectiveness, ease of use, big numbers.

I think you misunderstood. Grenadier is a LOT of fun for me, the higher effectiveness is just icing on the cake.

I don’t personally understand why some say grenades are less effective because you have to aim them. With some practice and key binds I find them quite easy to aim and throw, even in spvp, just takes a bit of practice. I suppose that’s why rifles have such a convoluted play style, otherwise they would be boring.

Man, people will just keep hatin. What I think people need to start doing, instead of complaining that it has too short of range for its skills, is use it as a shotgun, and be glad it has the long range capability of a rifle for its auto-attack (and a fairly powerful one at that). Remember, the engineer is ALL about positioning/control, that is the class.

Im not going to lie, I would love another kit like a sniper (maybe an elite one!? ha i wish) – kits are the most awesome part of the engineer. I really doubt that a change to the current base weapon skills is ever going to happen. I personally love the engineer, its my favorite class by far, I do wish blunderbuss had at least the range of melee, and that the net moved a little faster.

Overall, I love the class, ESPECIALLY how much thought it takes to use the engineer effectively. I think people should spend a little (or a lot) more time messin with all of the possible builds before screaming “broken”. Idk if this hate is happening with every class, but no class can do everything awesomely…..thats why there are classes remember?

I love the engineer rifle, so much power and control. If someone is at a distance I can just shoot them to death with hip-shot and up-close I just knock them around and net them constantly. It’s good for both kiting and getting up in someone’s face.

I main a warrior mostly, and one thing I would like to point out is that as a warrior you bridge to each volley, as that’s most of the damage. Play style wise the warrior longbow is closer to the engineer rifle, as they are both pressure weapons that work on just constantly hitting hard rather than suddenly spiking up damage.

Zinwrath.2049:

LameFox.6349:

I’d prefer the main attack became more shotgun-y. Thieves would be a better sniper than engineers, to me… they have the option to just expend all their points (whatever it’s called, I forget now) very quickly for a lot of damage, which would fit quite well with a sniping skillset that had mostly high damage, point-expensive attacks.

Engineers already fire the thing from the hip… making it a shotgun would be pretty fitting IMO. And it wouldn’t even need to change more than one skill, the rest are already pretty handy for mid/close range.

There is truth to this in theme. a theif does give the feeling of wanting to pick someone off with little risk to himself so i totally agree on that. But its the engineers who are wanting it. Lets assume tomorrow they put in sniper rifle for the engineer. Would you quit playing it? would you quit playing the game? Would you just never equip the sniper rifle? would you turn a 180 and realize its actually fun and say F-it and use it all the time?

I wouldn’t care either way, if it was balanced. I just don’t think it really fits in with the class the way they’ve made it so far. Most ranged attacks on the engineer besides hipshot and rifle turrets (if traited) are explosives (grenades, rocket turret, mortar). A thief would be more inherently balanced with a sniper IMO because he could be given an attack that deals very high damage, but it would be inherently costly to him. He would spend the points he uses on all his weapon skills, rather than just (for example) have a long cooldown on that particular attack.

Zinwrath.2049:

There is no harm in them having it if thats what they want as far as i’m concerned. You just need to theme it to them. Instead of their abilitys being described as long range well aimed attacks. We describe them as using a rifle that has self aiming capabilitys. What if hipshot was called ’steady shot" or “aimed shot”. The ability would remain the same but suddenly you would argue differently about whether he should have it or not.

I was referring to the animation here. The hip shot is actually fired from the hip. It just seems like it would look awesome as a shotgun attack and work well with the other skills.

Zinwrath.2049:

Often when considering a change to a game “if your a real developer” its best to weigh pro vs con….fun vs anti-fun. How would putting in this feature make the engineer less fun vs more fun. As described earlier it doesnt make it less fun for people who dont like it as they can just choose not to use it, for those who want it it makes the profession more fun. You simply balance it and adjust its abilitys to sound like something it should be doing with that weapon. The only way it would be anti-fun if it’s existance made it dreadfully hard to deal with for other classes…if that happend you would need to balance it so it doesnt, give it an obvious downside to its strengths.

My point is you can put in a sniper rifle type weapon for the engineer and just put in the tooltip an explanation of why hes able to do X attack that fits his theme and bam it works.

Keeping with a theme is also important though. The whole idea of classes is that one doesn’t do everything, else the others become redundant. A sniper on an engineer might be fun, but that doesn’t necessarily imply it belongs there. I’m not saying it doesn’t, either, if it was done properly. I just think there are more fitting classes for that function.

@Zinwrath

If they made it like Final fantasy style it still seems pretty reasonable, I mean at least their designs are pretty steam punkish, rather than adding sniper rifles will really give away the impression of something like Call of Duty Modern Warfare or Battlefield 3.

There are already sniper rifles in the game (a fixed turret type thing, and some rifle skins). I don’t think they make it much like BF3/MW3.

I’ve seen the sniper rifle on youtube, it does looks like the modern ones we have today, but I won’t complain since it’s still only turret rather than being a weapon we can equip. I’ll just take it as like some kinda long range siege weapon.

They work more like an old anti-tank rifle IMO. Something like a PTRD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRD

You can say that too, it just seems the technology of guns haven’t changed much from WWII to today, I mean aside from the new materials used to make them lighter and stronger.

I was just thinking functionally, the things fire really slowly like an older heavy weapon. I can see why a gun like in BF3 would be a bad idea here since picking people off from a distance would just become the best way to get rid of them, but I don’t think any sort of high-damage long-range rifle skillset necessarily has to be imbalanced that way.

i love how a rifle warrior can do more damage, have more health, have more defense, and overall do everything better than my engineer.
yes, i have the healing turret, but warriors have banners .

That explain why i dont see many engineers looking for dungeons.

And to those that say that engineer rifle specialize in control and conditions ….. warrior can apply bleed, vulnerability, cripple and knockdown, and most of their skills are combo finisher: proyectile.

I started using the rifle recently, and I love it!

Ok i cant take it anymore. I had it with the same top 10 things ppl say without even reading this post.

1, Dear Jordan and the rest, before posting something rude, like : Anet remove this port becouse my personal opinion is xy, READ WHAT I WROTE.
2, ALL the complainers who rage on me and others, for wanting to remake the rifle skills also READ the topic, since noone atleast I DID NOT SAY anything like that.
3,I want to improve the game for all, at best add a thing that improves it for some but wont really effect others, exspecially NOT THE BALANCE of the combat or game. and Not remake something.
4,The improvements i suggest are my personal opinions, based on my personal experiance and feeling, but keep in mind i try to be objective, since i dont want to remove the curent system , i also think on other players. But also keep in mind that, trough many wont angree with me, many might do. Not all players use forum or speak there mind. In the end the best thing is compromise, and thats exacly what i try to do. Unlike the thick head ppl who come here and rage abaut things i dont even say, they dont even bother reading the posts, just want WHAT THEY want. Unlike constructive players who ACTUALLY come here to try to improve the game in any way.
5, We are talking here abut the theme,animation and feeling of using a Rifle in the hands of Engineer and not abaut the EFFECT, or role Engineer can or does fill.
6, Having a Ranged feeling kit WONT effect the role or class itself, since enginer ALREDY HAS a Ranged dd skillbar, with granades or mortal and a lot of things. Adding another STYLE wont effect the game in the extreme ways you ppl think.
7,I just sead Sniper kit as an example, any other theme will do, i see many posts with simply saying “ranged rifle kit”. That kind of expresses it all.

Thats all i really had to say, i hope noone takes this personally or offensive, but i was seriously kitten by ppl saying the same stupid things all over without even reading the post, or thinking a bit more in depth. ( or way to deep actually)

So you want a sniper kit — we get it. The thing is you base your need for it on the rifle being crap, except it isn’t — it’s very good, making your need for the sniper kit a questionable thing, especially since that niche is already filled by grenades.

Adding a new kit would add a new ability to the utility list. Right now, every class has the same amount of utilities to choose from. Giving the engineers a +1 there, would mean that every other class would be entitled to one more and that’s the point where the whole thing begins to escalate.

Also, STOP sPaMmInG cAPs aLl OVER yoUR pOstS — it’s ANNOYING to say the LEAST.

He didn’t say rifles are crap, they just don’t suit the want he’d like to play his engineer. Read the first post.

Replace one of the lesser used skills with the new kit. Not ideal but something like battering ram could be incorporated into a longer ranged kit easily (just an example, I love battering ram :-( )

WhiteCrow.5310:

If you don’t like the Engineer’s rifle, you probably don’t sPvP much.

Not sure what your point is. I solely use duel pistols in sPvP and do Excellent.

VakarisJ.5619:

that niche is already filled by grenades.

Grenades are long range, stationary hitting, AOE damage, dealing kit. It is NOT the same as a long range, single target, mobile, power damage, dealing kit; which engineers are currently lacking at the moment.

You can perfectly use it while mobile. It’s DPS compensates for it’s reduced accuracy. While the speed of their projectiles could use a little buff with the grenadier trait, to compensate for increased travel-time, it’s pretty good as it is right now.

Vaka….you still didnt read my posts. Ok since you ignore the 90% of things i say, and bother only abaut me outlining important things with caps (which works) i guess i also ignore the 90% of the things you say.

If you want people to read your posts, you should probably make them easier to understand.

Dont waste your time responding to people who just want to argue for sake of arguement Nek. i read it, i got it. The theme is argueable while i will back you on it was not what i expected and irritated me at first (and probably most people) i kinda understand the idea they were going for. We’re not a master weapon user…we’re an engineer so we use devices that do extrordinary things to make up for our lack of skill or physical strength. That said does it make sense for us to charge head first and want to be at knife range with a rifle? No, you would think an engineer would want to be furthest from the action unless he was in some kind of mech style armor he built.

So basicly i agree, shotgun combat woulda made more sense on a warrior. But, i think its here to stay…and play style in pvp i like it, just wish jump shot landing was a tad faster. No idea why my weak asura engineer body landing on someone does more damage than the blast left by me shooting a shot powerful enough to propel me through the air ……but…..meh…i guess this stuff isnt supposed to make sense.

My god, i thought all my abrasive toxic rude arguements were helping the atmosphere… kitten alchohal lied to me again. I’ll do my best to remain polite random red…btw you rock makes me feel like someones reading this.

Anyway, i came back to add a CRAZY idea.

1. What if blunderbuss (which should be renamed) was changed to a long-narrow cone shot that had normalized damage but gave no benefit for being close.

2. What if jump shot did MORE damage in the area you came from (and perhaps non where you landed…because lets face it its weird).

What did i just solve?

Now there is no desire to freakishly dive into mellee range with anyone. Rifle kit can stay almost the same, your jump shot now is an ability to punish people for getting too close while giving you some distance. Also blunderbuss which is supposed to be our large damage attack can be used from ranged and gets benefit without having to be so close to your enemy you can smell what he had for lunch.

Why? Blunderbuss is a bit ‘meh’ admittedly, being used ideally under melee range, but jump shot can be used to escape or attack the way it is now. We have a bomb kit, flamethrower, toolset with melee attacks… it’s not exactly unprecedented that we would want to go into melee range.

Well, i would adjust things lamefox. Honestly it would be a weapon overhaul.

Jumpshot would lost damage entirely and be replaced by a knockback or blind/cripple in its wake and the delay upon landing “which is what makes it not a very amazing escape” would be removed or atleast moved to the beginning of the animation for some counter play (aka they can stun you before you take off)

Overcharge shot a loud deafening shot that left you and the target dazed for 1-1/2 seconds (enemy possibly dazed longer)

reason – still fullfills the same purpose as current form, but now can afford more damage and is no longer a way to make distance “because jumpshot will be much more effective at this now”

The only reason i would do it differently is to fit the thematic feel that a lot of people are expecting when they play engineer. They do not want the rifle to be a mellee weapon, yet as it stands you have two abilitys on it that require you to be in mellee range to get the damage out of them. The rifle is not a tank weapon that would be the shield. So it is our control and power build weapon.

so.
Rifle – mid/long range power build
Pistol/pistol mid/close condition build.
pistol/shield mid/close defencive (mix of both condition/power)

now we have an option for anything. (keep in mind we only have these 3 weapon options, it only makes sense that our WEAPONS not kits allow us an option for atleast these 3 playstyles.

I agree with the OP. I love the rifle but get completely underwhelmed by it on the Eng so I switch to the warrior+rifle. Really cool but the Eng version’s dps blows feels so weak after playing my warrior. Also dont consider grenades because I loathe ground targeting. Wish they’d give the option of targeting the enemy with them.

I’ve done a lot of PVP/WvW with my Engi and have come to enjoy the rifle more than the warrior’s for several reasons.

-The warrior’s no.2 skill gives cripple, we get a 2s immobilize.

-The warrior’s no.3 skill gives multipile shots at range, we get high dmg aoe blast with stacks of bleeding included.

-The warrior’s no.4 skill gives vulnerablility(meh), we get an extremely effective knock back that puts the enemy down long enough to follow up with a number of things.

-The warrior’s no.5 skill gives a knock back(its ok), we get jumpshot which is very powerful if used correctly.

And of course the warrior’s kill shot…we got nothing to compare to that…it does take a good few seconds to go off though, and has a distinctive animation.

Can the warrior combo off of any of these abilities? Not really. The Engi is about versatility and finesse.

Grenades – I use them when hitting people from above….but why do I really have it? For the toolbelt ability. If you’re smart and hotkey your most important skills then you’ll be good with this. I hotkey all my toolbelt skills except for F1(your heal).

-Melee runs up to me?
Try using jumpshot just under yourself (1-2k up/2-4k down) + blunderbuss (2-5k) + Overcharge(1-3k) + Throw 6-pack grenades on his prone body (2-6k).

-Fighting against ranged?
Net… if he breaks it, net him again using the toolbelt skill from Net Turret..many other options to slow him down.

There are many ways to do it, but I feel that the rifle Engi is able to really throw people around in a fight. I’ve used overcharge so many times to save people from getting stomped, or knocking people off of ledges etc.. plus the cool down is extremely low.

I’m geared with Knight’s Exotic armor and Knight/Valkyrie jewelry. I crit often, and hit for around 800-1500(Hip Shot) depending on who I’m shooting while retaining 2.9k armor.

Also, anyone use th Rocket toolbelt skill from rocket turret? Instant rocket in someone’s face for around 2k…Engi’s are great!

Vakarsj

I’m sorry but from the beginning the way you responded to this thread has been hostile and elitist. Someone makes a thread about something they would enjoy added to their profession, it’s not even changing the rifle, just adding a kit. I’m so glad you like grenades, but not everyone feels the same way you do, his suggestion wouldn’t change a thing for those (like you) that don’t care for it, so why come in here and reinforce the kitten gamer stereotype.

ebigz.4985:

Vakarsj

I’m sorry but from the beginning the way you responded to this thread has been hostile and elitist. Someone makes a thread about something they would enjoy added to their profession, it’s not even changing the rifle, just adding a kit. I’m so glad you like grenades, but not everyone feels the same way you do, his suggestion wouldn’t change a thing for those (like you) that don’t care for it, so why come in here and reinforce the kitten gamer stereotype.

Like I said before – it would change quite a lot. Also, you’re reinforcing the loser (and/or casual gamer) stereotype and ignoring what the Community Coordinator said a few posts ago.

For reference:

So you want a sniper kit — we get it. The thing is you base your need for it on the rifle being crap, except it isn’t — it’s very good, making your need for the sniper kit a questionable thing, especially since that niche is already filled by grenades.

Adding a new kit would add a new ability to the utility list. Right now, every class has the same amount of utilities to choose from. Giving the engineers a +1 there, would mean that every other class would be entitled to one more and that’s the point where the whole thing begins to escalate.

CC Eva.6742:

Hello everyone.

Please, try to stay on topic and leave out personal accusations or appreciations, as they do not help to keep a good atmosphere on the forums.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

VakarisJ.5619:

ebigz.4985:

Vakarsj

I’m sorry but from the beginning the way you responded to this thread has been hostile and elitist. Someone makes a thread about something they would enjoy added to their profession, it’s not even changing the rifle, just adding a kit. I’m so glad you like grenades, but not everyone feels the same way you do, his suggestion wouldn’t change a thing for those (like you) that don’t care for it, so why come in here and reinforce the kitten gamer stereotype.

Like I said before – it would change quite a lot. Also, you’re reinforcing the loser (and/or casual gamer) stereotype and ignoring what the Community Coordinator said a few posts ago.

For reference:

So you want a sniper kit — we get it. The thing is you base your need for it on the rifle being crap, except it isn’t — it’s very good, making your need for the sniper kit a questionable thing, especially since that niche is already filled by grenades.

Adding a new kit would add a new ability to the utility list. Right now, every class has the same amount of utilities to choose from. Giving the engineers a +1 there, would mean that every other class would be entitled to one more and that’s the point where the whole thing begins to escalate.

CC Eva.6742:

Hello everyone.

Please, try to stay on topic and leave out personal accusations or appreciations, as they do not help to keep a good atmosphere on the forums.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

It would change alot? That is your opinion, hell I don’t even care if they add it or not, I’m fine with my engineer the way it is. My point is that offering your OPINION as a fact to counter someone’s suggestion is not constructive. Once again, your point of view is just that, YOURS.

So it’s funny that you told someone that the world doesn’t revolve around them earlier because the same can be said about you.

It isn’t my opinion, it’s common logic. Everyone are now equal in their skillsets, regardless of their profession. If one profession would get an extra skill, others would each need one more to compensate. I don’t see how you can pin this as my opinion, it seems that you’re just plainly dismissive of everything I point out. You offer nothing towards this thread aside from trolling me. You aren’t even trying to point out why you think my point is incorrect — you’re just “I don’t like it, it must be false!”.

This might come as a shock but guess what? You’re not a developer! You see, a suggestion is nothing more than that, a suggestion. It lets the ACTUAL developers see what a small (yet vocal) part of the community wants in the game. At the end of the day it’s their job to see how it can, or cannot be added into their game. My whole point is that there is no need for someone to come into a thread with a hostile attitude about how it will never work.

On top of that, all you’ve done is say “lawl I likez nades, lulz L2P or reroolz lulz.” That’s not being constructive, no matter what you think. So I’m going to stop answering you and show you what a constructive post is.

The current setup of rifle works for me. I put the heat on people far away with grenades, keeping them slowed/at range, as they close in I can either blow them away with flamethrower/mine/B.O.B. , grenade some more, overcharge shot, net shot, grenade barrage (with rifle out) and done.
I tried setting up to main with rifle when I started and at end, but it just wasnt working in a way I felt “great” about. Elixir U, deep into fire arms, flamethrower for flame bullets and anything that could help out rifle; but I couldnt find a good combo I liked.

I’m taking whats available and making it work – old habit thats hard to break.

Also, being the largest charr possible, its easy to hide B.O.B. under you