Guild Wars 2

So from SOTG am I right to assume 100nades will be gone due to the additional changes to KR in the March patch?

I think it is safe to assume that. Especially since they said that you should not be able to do 24k burst insta-kills on people.

No tears here, i had fun with 100nades but different builds are always fun if we can actually output some dmg.

I never got 24k damage on someone. But I did with my thief.

Like I said early on when 100nade became popular, I don’t care if they tone it down. I’m not a fan of one shotting build in mmo, even if I roamed quit a bit with 100nade (it was fun for me, but I’m sure it wasn’t for others).

But I wonder : Why remove it from engineer, and not from other classes? Shatter mesmers (might get nerfed so), DD thief, 100b Warrior (tho they aren’t that bad).

And if you are removing it to us, give us something else to make up for it. Not like 100nade was FOTM in tPvP.

Played 100nades right after release until the first grenade nerf, its a nice combo but weak for solo roaming compared to condition specs. Im more worried about super elixir, this will be the nail in the coffin as its the only thing to handle conditions beside the horrible elixirs.

Kardiamond.6952:

I never got 24k damage on someone. But I did with my thief.

Like I said early on when 100nade became popular, I don’t care if they tone it down. I’m not a fan of one shotting build in mmo, even if I roamed quit a bit with 100nade (it was fun for me, but I’m sure it wasn’t for others).

But I wonder : Why remove it from engineer, and not from other classes? Shatter mesmers (might get nerfed so), DD thief, 100b Warrior (tho they aren’t that bad).

And if you are removing it to us, give us something else to make up for it. Not like 100nade was FOTM in tPvP.

I think its pretty sad that they don’t want engies to do high damage at all. Playing whackamole with our builds that show damage potential, their class philosophy on us to have damage tax, and so on while other classes are left untouched.

Granted I’m pretty excited that turrets might start showing potential soon but knowing that we’ll never be a dd class saddens me.

Lol turrets….until now this class is the hardest to master and requires twice the skill other classes need but for some sad reason we are supposed to just do weak damage while our stationary pets handle stuff or we drink some potions.

I never ever encountered that much fail in class design before with my age of 30.
80% of my friends quit the game because of the horrible balance.

I think it’s great they remove 100nade, I hated that build anyway, it did appear akward and unattended (also grenade barrage was allways a silly kit refinement abillity in my opinion) <.<

What I don’t understand is, why the Engineer community (mmany of them) feel so Entitled to also have a “one shot” ability like the theif and warrior (and maybe mesmer, but don’t think it’s a one shot combo), not that I ever have been one shotted unless I used a glass cannon build myself (without Elixir S)! I mean, Rangers, Necromancers, Elementalists and Guardies dosn’t have one either! I don’t really see them complianing so much about it?

If insane burst damage output that can destroy enemy players that run without any sort of defence (your own fault you die anyway in that case) in 2-3 seconds is a thing they wanted to give Warriors and Theif’s only, we shouldn’t necessary have it aswell, they don’t have the same amount of CC as we can bring either?

I’m all in for more builds start to open up at the price of the removal of 100nade (also I have run a succesfull power burst build that ain’t 100nade that don’t relay on a single stupid combo to hit, so it’s not like we won’t have power builds)!
100nade just don’t appear as something they had wanted to work like they, it’s a clumsy combo with a wierd feeling to it when you use it!

I gues what I’m trying to say, give us more viable builds, that can be used in all parts of the game! But the Engineer’s should stop nagging at the Theive’s and Warrior for having something special they can do, it’s a game with 8 proffsions, it would be boring if we all filled the same void, wouldn’t it?

Amadeus.5687:

I gues what I’m trying to say, give us more viable builds, that can be used in all parts of the game! But the Engineer’s should stop nagging at the Theive’s and Warrior for having something special they can do, it’s a game with 8 proffsions, it would be boring if we all filled the same void, wouldn’t it?

Problem is… Thief (medium armor) = insta-kills and perma stealth. Warrior = heavy armor at a cost of no stealth, but also insta-kills. Engi = no burst potential like thief, no permastealth, and we’re squishy. Sure we have CC and conditions, but so do Necros, and they have pets, we don’t. Mesmers, same thing. Engineer is looking a lot like the red-headed stepchild here; we can do a little of everything, but nothing is done particularly well (or at least not as well as other classes). Normally a balanced class like this would be really nice for solo-running PvE. Except ANet has made it clear the game is meant for group play. And a “balanced” class is always inferior in PvP, as classes that focus on one thing are rewarded while Jack-of-all-trades types are severely punished.

Amadeus.5687:

What I don’t understand is, why the Engineer community (mmany of them) feel so Entitled to also have a “one shot” ability like the theif and warrior (and maybe mesmer, but don’t think it’s a one shot combo), not that I ever have been one shotted unless I used a glass cannon build myself (without Elixir S)! I mean, Rangers, Necromancers, Elementalists and Guardies dosn’t have one either! I don’t really see them complianing so much about it?

Rangers actually do have one if traited for BM and using the Jaguar pet. Necros have DS and a higher health pool allowing them to dish out more damage over time, and they actually can do very high burst damage with Axe builds (don’t get me wrong, though, Axe is far from being great). And don’t get anybody started on how good Elementalists and Guardians are.

Armadeus, I don’t understand you on this one.

I understand you dislike 100nade, we have all our dislike and our like. But if you don’t like it, don’t use it. You know as much as me that HGH cond burst is superior to 100nade in most aspect.

I have respect for you, but I feel you are really biaised toward this.

Everything you said, could be said about HGH and cond build. Why would engineer be able to get so much condition damage, but no power burst?

Rangers, necromancers, Elementalists and Guard all have burst build. They are just not viable right now, because like most of thing in GW2, only a few build are viable. Half the classes doesn’t have a viable condition build, doesn’t mean we aren’t mean to have one.

I feel like we deserve a one shotting build as long as other build similar exist. Having the option to be something else in paid tpvp? Why not? If we sometime can replace a thief/warrior.

By the way, Warrior and Thief don’t have the same CC as we bring, but they have others things. HP, Armor, mobility, high damage output ouside of the combo. What we get for our CC we lose on other thing.

Overall, I’m a bit surprised by your post, even if I remember it’s not your first anti 100nade post. I remember GW2 saying that every class should be able to build for any kind of role. Best example are Mesmer : They can be burst, they can be condition, they can be tank, they can be support. All are viable build (except maybe support).

I prefer having all the option, then having each profession pigeon holed in specific role. Not like a burst warrior act like a burst thief, or a tank guardian like a tank elem. They fit the same role, yet they are extremely different.

By the way, I don’t feel like 100nade combo is any “stupider” then a straight HGH build without any kit

I still like you and respect your skills/knownledge, but I don’t think you should judge the removal of a build over your like/dislike.

@AlietteFaye I didn’t say they ain’t a good class, but none of those classes got a combo that kill glass cannon geared people in 2-3 seconds! And yet you don’ see them whining on the forums about wanting one all the time, and saying it’s only fair because other classes can do it

@Sunny I don’t have that feeling of the class at all! There is many things flawed and bugged for the Engineer class, but our speical combo of kit’s without swapping CD, with the mix of condition and power damage (and we got all the good damage conditions compared to Necromancers) and are still able to sunstain good CC and movement! I of cause mostly talk from my WvW experince where Confusion is better (But I have be rolling without confusion, and that is working for us aswell)! There ain’t any class I feel I can’t stand up to if I’m on par with the enemy player running one of my kit builds or elixir builds (But there is still a few bug fixes need in that area aswell)! In PvE I got 3 differnt kind of builds that have been working fine in any dungeon I have run (but only done FOTM to level 12, then It got to boring)

The problems first start showing when we look at Gadgets or Turrents, there is so much more work that needs to be done there, but to I think the Engineer have a lot of good stuff going for them atm, and I don’t feel like other classes have stuff I want!

@Armadeus

Not sure you missed my previous answer.

But Guardian got a 2-3 sec combo that can kill most other Glass Cannon.

Elementalist got the same thing, they have to stack all “burst” utility to do it. It’s a one hit wonder, but it does exist.

Like I said, they are just not balanced yet. Guardian because they are a lot better with a bunker build, and Elementalist for the same reason.

Also, Necromancer got a dagger/dagger build that kill GC ikittensecond. It rely on DS dancing for fury, and procing quickness from sigil of rage.

@Kardiamond I expressed myself wrong in that case, it’s not like I say we should’t have a burst build, or power damage builds! I have used two of those kind that wasn’t a 100nade build, and they are really fun to play!

What I don’t like about 100nade, is it’s a build designed around something that appear to me, and apperntly the designers as well, as an uninteded way to instant burst people in 1-2 seconds, if you succesfully land the combo! It’s a build created and to do that single trick, and to me is pretty useless after that, and I just don’t like that concept! I’m not sure how to explain it prober I gues, but what I mean with it is I don’t havea problem with trading that one trick, for a bag filled with tricks? does that makes sense? (Even when 100nade is gone we can still do a Magnet —> Prybar --> net shot —-> Grenade Barrage —> Jump shot, and any class cannon is dead by then, so it’s not like we won’t have burst left)

edit: Yeah I was typeing while you made and reply hehe

Amadeus.5687:

@AlietteFaye I didn’t say they ain’t a good class, but none of those classes got a combo that kill glass cannon geared people in 2-3 seconds! And yet you don’ see them whining on the forums about wanting one all the time, and saying it’s only fair because other classes can do it

Thief = instant-kills glass cannon
Warrior = instant-kills glass cannon

What do we have left, if there is not a single build that gives us decent burst? 100 ‘Nades hits hard, sure, but even the name itself implies that it’s basically just doing what other classes already can do. Besides the fact that to be a good 100 ‘Nades Engi takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears. We have to execute a perfect setup to make it go the way we want it to, and that often doesn’t work. What does Warrior have to do? Press 2 and watch everything die. What does the Wiki say about 100 Blades? “This skill has the highest listed damage potential of any non-elite.” Oh, plus they get heavy armor, while Engineer is stuck being squishy. Seems fair that we should have a tricky combo that allows us better damage than our slack-jawed 2-mashing compatriots.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining about Thief or Warrior. Just pointing out that they also both have massive damage output potential, and with fewer drawbacks.

But Sunny, the warrior give up any kind of movement while doing 100 blade! I never loose to Greatsword Warriors when I bring my A game, simply because they are so horrible Inmobile, I just don’t get why we are jelly of the worst PvP class in the entire game? :/ I feel the Engineer community constant try to get buffed by whining over the Warriors that allready is weak, and I don’t like that!
And someone need to have the highest damage skill in the game (That’s still a melee and makes you stand there like a dummy skill) why shouldn’t it be the warrior?

Also, run a full berseker, or Knight/Valk HGH Rifle + Grenade kit and you will have plenty of Power burst damage I promoise you that, you can even make a more balanced variant of 100nade (without the kit refinement and need to get into melee) and still wreck out hardcore daamge, I use that in duels and it works great vs anything that ain’t Osicat or Itkoviana up to now!

Having 100% uptime with kit refinement and super elixir, and considering the buffs to super elixir last patch, I never felt this was some OP skill. You still have to run it with cleric amulets to get much out of it…

I’ve actually seen HGH direct-dmg grenade variants work out pretty well too. That was at least what Team PZ was experimenting with before the Kit Refinement part of it became widely known. With lots of Might and Fury, it’s not unreasonable to get 10-13k out of just the single Grenade Barrage which is significant in itself. Then just use Jump Shot on top of them or something in addition to it (without the Rifled Barrels trait so it goes faster).

It is possible to do 24k bursts with 100 Nades as it stands now. It’s incredibly unlikely though. I think their specific reference to this was a thread that popped up awhile ago, where they had a screenshot for the 24k.

@Ayestes I have played a Direct-dmg HGH build since Beta, my first build ever created and it does indeed work really well Even when I play around with it in sPvP I see 1000+ crits from each Sharpnel and freeze grenade, and some glass cannons I can whipe of the ground in 3-4 seconds during a succesfull Net shot with my cooldowns ready!

Even better, I’m more tanky then the 100nade build, and I got actually condition removal haha

Here we go again. Whenever there is a cool stylish combo (not necessarily OP), it gets nerfed.

Well, they are nerfing Thief burst and watching Mesmer burst carefully. It’s not unreasonable they nerf our burst, when it’s potentially even quicker then the rest. Whether it’s OP is a matter of opinion at this point, and standing inside a target feels like an exploit to me. That’s not to say it wasn’t fun though, the build is a whole lot of fun to play. HGH Power Nades though to me at least sounds just as fun, but I’ll admit I haven’t done it.

Engineer is already the most limiting (in terms of build diversity) and buggy class in the game and what do they do..? Remove one of the few viable builds we have available. Maybe fix the class before you keep nerfing it into the ground! Just ridiculous.

Bacon I think Warriors and Necromancers would want a talk with you about their situation in PvP right now then

Yeah pretty much every class forum complains about build diversity. Engineers are not unique in this situation, and us having maybe 2 or more viable builds as it stands is something that is above and beyond some of the other classes.

@Ayeste

That 24k screenshot was actually a bad screen shot montage that actually did 15k damage in reality.

I actually found 100nade to be really insterresting in duel. It wasn’t the best build, but it was like playing a game of chess. And you had to use a lot more then your combo to win. Feint, CC, block, dodge, During a good duel I would use 20+ different skills.

But like most rifle build, fighting with a mesmer was asking to die. (a good one).

Especially those kitten Immortal Mesmer, man are they annoying.

Amadeus.5687:

But Sunny, the warrior give up any kind of movement while doing 100 blade!

You get that 100 ‘Nades doesn’t work unless you are standing right inside your opponent, right? Grenade combo mobility is = to 100 Blades mobility…

@Kardiamond try Osicat’s new Mist cast build, that one is a even bigger pain, he can reflect everything you throw at him for 8 seconds in a row! followed by 3 seconds of block! Gesus, it’s like your hitting yourself for more damage most of the time then your hitting him xD

@Sunny and that’s why 100nade was bad designed to begin with (tho, you could move out as soon as you swapped to te kit)

I know it was spoofed, but I don’t blame them for calling it out as a number. Especially since it is actually possible. Unlikely like I said, but it’s possible. I don’t think the build is overpowered in the grand scheme of things, but I don’t think it’s a good thing for the game to have any one-shot type of things at all around.

I’d rather have Kit Refinement be moved more towards utility, and if the build is weak after that it given buffs to compensate. Mesmers are a problem for any “combo” based build, since that’s what they avoid best is burst combos with their X ways of countering control and access to damage invulns.

@Ayestes

Just feel weird that Karl used a number from a spoofed screen shot. Doesn’t feel right.

Then we agree that there shouldn’t not be any one shotting class in this game. I said it, if they remove it for us, remove it for everyone.

But I found 100b and 100nade to be less gamebreaking, since you could counter it hard. I didn’t die to a 100nade build for a long time. Even with a new build I have been trying to week, which is a bit lackluster. a 100nade tried to combo me, but when you know the trick, you know how to counter it.

If they tone it down for us, tone it down for everyone.

About Mesmer, I think they are just hard overall for melee class. Especially with the new confusions builds, if you are using Bomb kit it will prolly be impossible to land one of your bomb. Same for Flamethrower.

I think the main reason for this is those kitten low cooldown weapon abilities like Staff #2 and sword #2. They are a pretty hard counter to CC/immobilize for staff and burst for sword. And traited I think staff number 2 is like 5 second?

@Kardiamond I agree with you kinda on that a one shot abillity shouldn’ exist, but for me it’s just to hard to define what a one shot is, and where the line goes for damage output? I mean, I can confusion kill people in 2 seconds if they are stupid? and if I have a balanced mix of stats (actually have Vita and Toughness), I won’t get killed by a Theif Steal+ CoD + backstap combo! It’s just, where is the line? I kinda like the adrealine kick I get from 100% Glass cannon Theives because if I let them do their stuff for 5-6 seconds without reacting I’m done for, on the other hand If I’m fast enough I can turn the taple in few seconds aswell?

So yeah, I don’t disagree, but where is the line for how much damage someone can dish out as a burst? personal I think 100blade as an example is just fine, if the warrior manage to land that 100blade fully on a person he for sure desereve the damage output xD

I agree with you on mesmers, Staff is 5 seconds yeah, and skill 2 on sword is really powerfull both offensive and defensive (the entire dodge everything while dealing a good amount of damage is whicked)
but I’m actually starting to land with Bombs on the good ones (allways could hit the bad ones :P), becuse you can read on their movement when they will close in! Of cause, I train it on Osicat, and it’s freaking hard to hit him with anything!

Yeah I went the easy way, and I use our beautiful slick show to land my entire bomb rotation.

Pull them in + Prybar + Slick show

Then non stop run over them to knock them down twice, for a total of a bit more then 5 second stun. That’s enought to land concusion, fire bomb and ether glue bomb, big ol bomb if you use it first, or Blow Torch.

People hate it

“What the hell is happening I’m laying on the ground and this engineer keep running over my face with his delicious looking shoes”.

bahahahaha I gotta give that a go on Osicat one of the days, just because it sounds so hillarous fun to do!

Well It doesn’t work that well on mesmer just because of that staff/sword things

Haha, I need to try out Slick Shoes more often offensively. I agree Kardiamond that the number was a bad number to choose, but when you are on the spot and reaching for a number in your memory I don’t blame him for recalling that instance. The only reason I find it not outrageous though, is that it in the end is technically possible.

Bombs in general don’t work on a Mesmer at all, ha.

Ah gesus, normal I use the Net Turrent for duels when I want an easy time with the bombs (D/D elementalists can take quite the beating from that ect), but net shot vs Osicat … I immobilse myself like atleasy 75% of the times if I try!! So that dosn’t work, would have been nice if the shoes did :P

Where do you find upcoming patches?

My biggest concern is that right now 100 nades is our ONLY viable power build. So pretty much after this crap goes live we are going to be forced into condition specs to do any considerable damage. Don’t make me laugh when they talk about improving turrets, they are so kittenty that it would take an entire rework to even make me consider using them.

The information was in the latest State of the Game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Engi-March-State-of-the-Game

I disagree that 100 Nades is the only viable power build. I think HGH Power Nades is potentially there as well. I also think it’s likely there are undiscovered things, such as a possible control-based Flamethrower direct-dmg build.

@Zaragoz I gues you talk about the sPvP of the game? But we still don’t know what the next patch really will bring, there might be buffs to other of our skills that brings new Power builds to the taple (also try the HGH Power grenade build, it’s worth a shot, at least I have had succes running it, but I only do sPvP when I final goes in there)

Thats true Amadeus, I guess we will have to wait and see exactly what happens. I just don’t want to see power take a backseat to conditions =D

@ Ayestes Potentially being the key word, not to mention grenades are hard to hit with and I have not tried flamethrower since the most recent patch, but I still doubt it comes close to HGH conditions, and there in lies my gripe it is hands down our best build at the moment, great damage, great condition removal, can trait for speedy kits and have great mobility..

Problem with grenades at a distance is that when you are lobbing them far away, it takes so many millions of years for them to land that people actually just walk out of the AoE… don’t even have to dodge. Basically any grenades spec is going to have to be close-to-mid range, and it makes the distance trait pretty silly unless you are using it to cover downed players on the fly, imo.

And our other kits feel pretty weak in comparison to me, at least from a PvP standpoint. Who in the history of Engis has killed anyone in PvP with Bomb Kit? (Okay, there was that one really genius warrior that I bomb-kited to death in WvW that one time, but I am talking about players with a brain). Flamethrower seems gimmicky and it kinda just does one thing (which flavour of burning would you like to apply? Oh wait, fire all tastes the same when it’s on your face). I like Toolkit but I feel too squishy to be up in someone’s face long enough to really melee.

Seems like we get to be solo PvE all-stars but the second someone has a PvP-viable build that actually strikes fear into the hearts of our opponents, we get the nerfbat.

zaragoz.6351:

@ Ayestes Potentially being the key word, not to mention grenades are hard to hit with and I have not tried flamethrower since the most recent patch, but I still doubt it comes close to HGH conditions, and there in lies my gripe it is hands down our best build at the moment, great damage, great condition removal, can trait for speedy kits and have great mobility..

Potentially is indeed the key word. To me it means we don’t publicly try new things enough, and even when we do we put up all these artificial restraints that aren’t necessarily true.

I don’t want HGH Conditions to be the only build either, but in my opinion there are very likely viable builds out there that deal with direct damage output. I’m honestly going to try one for a little bit here involving control.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Who in the history of Engis has killed anyone in PvP with Bomb Kit? (Okay, there was that one really genius warrior that I bomb-kited to death in WvW that one time, but I am talking about players with a brain).

I’ve killed plenty of competent people with the Bomb Kit. There is a lot of footage of at the very least Teldo doing the same. I’m sure there are many more cases out there too. I can see some value in complaining about the accuracy of the Bomb Kit in comparison to what it can output, but speaking in exaggerated absolutes gets this discussion no where.

Amadeus.5687:

I gues what I’m trying to say, give us more viable builds, that can be used in all parts of the game!

Well, that’s the problem right there. They will adjust the class to have more viable builds eventually, but how many players are going to sit around and wait until that actually happens ?

Judging by the pace they’ve been going so far they’ll probably get around to it by about 2020.

BardaTheHobo.9752:

I think it is safe to assume that. Especially since they said that you should not be able to do 24k burst insta-kills on people.

well, i’m confused becuse 24k .. they are not talking about sPvP or PvE, they are talking about engineers in WvW, 24k burst, and you have be in meele range, have to immobilize , stand inside them and then aim and spike… every 20-30s

Warriors can crit 20-30k with killshot at 1,500 range every 8-10s lol …
backstab thief?
shatter mesmers?

Kardiamond.6952:

I never got 24k damage on someone. But I did with my thief.

Like I said early on when 100nade became popular, I don’t care if they tone it down. I’m not a fan of one shotting build in mmo, even if I roamed quit a bit with 100nade (it was fun for me, but I’m sure it wasn’t for others).

But I wonder : Why remove it from engineer, and not from other classes? Shatter mesmers (might get nerfed so), DD thief, 100b Warrior (tho they aren’t that bad).

And if you are removing it to us, give us something else to make up for it. Not like 100nade was FOTM in tPvP.

Thieves and Warriors are intended to be viable PvP classes, Engineer is not.

The thing that finalized my decision to start playing more Simcity was them picking out the Engineers Grenade Burst and saying that IT specifically needs to be toned down. They did not mention bursts in general or say that any profession being able to 1-shot or instadown ppl was not intended.
So while many other professions can go Full GC and gear & trait to do similar or better Bursts than our BarrageX2 the Devs have solely been focused on limiting ours.

Devs fully acknowledge that with culling for the last 6 months Thiefs(somewhat Mesmers) have had an unintended unfair advantage with stealthing, yet nothing has ever been put in place to try and even temporality fix this problem.

But when it comes to the other Medium Armour profession that has to pull off their burst in plain sight without the help of invisibility it is seen as something Overpowered and Unintended.

I am not going to waste too much more time on a game that is being developed and balanced by basically “Fan Boys”. I try to play sPvP but every time the maps are just dead, yet that is the whole focus of Anet.
To make their MOBAMMORPG model work.

I will instead play more stupid Simcity with its always online garabage and numerous bugs because despite all those its an awesome game.

Just wanted to update this I know I was complaining hard about power builds, so this morning I started playing around alot with stuff and ended up revisiting one of the first builds I played on. The good old static discharge build! In all honesty I forgot how much dps it can dish out on multiple foes at that, and if the upcoming patch improves rifle turret all the better. Take what I say with a grain of salt though as I’m only rank 29 in spvp and by no means the best player out there.

Anyway if you havn’t tried it out give it a shot! Spam your tooldbelt abilities when their defensive cooldowns are not up. Don’t forget you can drop rifle turret and explode it for an extra static discharge when the other one is on cd. Use elixir r toss abilitiy for additonal condition removal when running against condition specs. Works well, its no one hitter quitter like 100nades can be, but the dps is nothing to scoff at. Also you can trade kit refinement for power wrench, I just prefer the aoe snare on switch because it has saved me many times. Anyway goodluck!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0picnpShF1LJxoHdm0fGki86XRFy/nCsF;TkAg0U4YwRgjFHHOScGWcsA

@ Bacon don’t make me laugh! I run two Rifle builds aswell (I prefer the Rifle over the P/P, but our condition damage is simply the better of those two options atm for duels), no one in WvW use the -40% condtion duration, (Osicat the only one that used it because else he melted to fast if I hit him), and you can even just eat a veggie pizza to counter that! and as I have showed the power of my two rifle builds in two movies allready, feel free to watch them, they don’t have the same trouble as 100nade depending on (in my opionon) clunky combo!

If you can’t see warriors is in a worse state then the warrior, go read their forums, or even level one to 80 and try play it 1vs1, they have far worse trouble, but sure, the work decent in group play

Edit: Also they claimed more builds would be playable for us, so just because 100nade combo is removed (you can even play the 100nade build without kit refinement, I did that in WvW), so it’s not like we won’t get anything in return if they hold word
Double edit: Actually my Rifle builds have won me more duels vs D/D Elementalists that knew what they were doing then my condition damage builds