Guild Wars 2

I hadn’t realised how big a problem this was until I jumped on my own scrapper in PvP.

Electro-Whirl and Blast Gyro are the two biggest offenders, but for their power level many things that scrappers have access to have too low a cooldown, especially given the stacking that can be used, such as Electro-whirl, Defense Field, Electro Whirl for ~7 seconds of complete projectile reflection that is back up in its entirety in less than 25 seconds.
Shock Shield is also a powerful block if used correctly, easily able to absorb bursts every 20 seconds, a lower CD than many other classes have burst abilities.
Combine this with traitlines that give very high stability and sustain, and scrapper is very definitely at or near the top of the class tree.

Overall, about a 5% reduction on hammer AA, a 10-20% increase on hammer CD’s and a CD pass on scrapper utilities especially Blast Gyro would do much to bring this class back into a slightly more sensible spot.

I’ve just recently been running a scrapper in WvW, but still have trouble with the same classes everyone else does…necro, thief, mesmer. Also, thought I’d point out that revenants have a similar 2s block on sword 4 with only a 12s cooldown compared to our 20s version. Finally, if you are a hammer scrapper, those extra seconds of missile shielding help you from getting melted while trying to close to melee range. We have a very slow gap closer with hammer 3 compared to guardians, revenants, thieves, etc., so it can help when you’re getting kited by a ranged class.

Just learn what to look out for and it’s pretty easy to kill them, don’t sit back and pewpew with a longbow or you will just kill yourself. Also if you can’t see a helicopter flying towards you to dodge, that’s your issue, not the gyro’s
Like Sylvyn said, engis only have 1 gap closer, so we need something to block otherwise engi just get kited to death

I agree! Also, scrapper has too many useful CDs. As stupid as that sounds, it’s true. A lot of their trait CDs need to be higher! 5 second CDs. WHAT???

Electro Whirl and the toolkit from Bulwark Gyro are a bit problematic, I agree. Especially with Tools, the CD on the reflect bubble is plain ridiculous. Electro Whirl CD is probably too short, because I find myself constantly using it, while on other weapon sets, you are forced more often to use either your AA or an offensive kit.

Yeah, scrapper cooldowns are pretty ridiculously short for sPvP. Hopefully they’ll make a pass over it when they separate out PvP and PvE/WvW.

Considering our gap closer is only a slight improvement over running (with Swiftness) and we have the same issues with certain above mentioned profs I wouldn’t say they’re too low.

PvP sucks. Stop nerfing engi because of that kitten gamemode.

Seems like Hammer was balanced around not swapping kits, whereas the other engi weapons were. Hammer gets ridiculous cooldowns compared to rifle and pistol (and shield! remember shield?), but there’s nothing stopping you from using hammer and also swapping to kits for even more… I don’t understand balance sometimes

guildabd.6529:

PvP sucks. Stop nerfing engi because of that kitten gamemode.

pretty much this

not to mention other professions have cooldowns just as short with tons more effects and even ranged attacks so i dont see how scrappers’s are the ones broken

guildabd.6529:

PvP sucks. Stop nerfing engi because of that kitten gamemode.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it inherently “sucks.”

in my opinion the only thing not good of scrapper is hammer 2 : scrapper has too strong against projectils . I should not increase cd but i’d eliminate somewhere project reflection .

PierPiero.9142:

in my opinion the only thing not good of scrapper is hammer 2 : scrapper has too strong against projectils . I should not increase cd but i’d eliminate somewhere project reflection .

Scrapper needs the reflect uptime because it has crappy damage application against anything that doesn’t fight in melee range most of the fight, there is no useful ranged damage kit, mortar you can literally walk out of at any sort of range, nades are not much better and at least one of the nades will miss at 900 range much of the time, it has maybe the slowest gap closer in the game (hammer 3), gyros can’t keep up, etc, scrapper is already easy to kite in things like WvW or stronghold, so if you remove the reflection without giving it some sort of compensation elsewhere it becomes even more of a sitting duck.

Scrapper need a little tuned down. I play it too as main. it is really strong, you can fight quite everything, even condition spammer in 1 vs 1 if you take for example medic gyro, eg and elixir C. Everyclass should have weakness otherwise all classes should not have ones.
If you reduce project reflection on hammer 2 you can make scrapper a little more inline with other professions , if you raise their cd you make it much more weak. With paladin or marauder scrapper has a really good survivability and a really good damage.
Tempest cleric for example can make really low damage, especially if you interrupt air overloading skill ( it is long so it is not that hard to do it, i use quite often magnet for that ) . You can kill ele much faster if you have good access to poison ( the 33% heal reduction helps a lot ) . I am not complaining on it but if you play other classes you will see that a little tuned down is needed as for warriors and necro perhaps . You have to look at other classes and compare to them , you can not have a “win” button, it is unfair (obviously i am exaggerating ) .

I will also add that scrapper has not great range attack but don’t understimate Elixir Gun, Auto attack is really good and in spvp the fight is for a point so range fight is less important becouse if you are not on a point you don’t cap it . Mortar can be quite good too, expecially for poison 2 in some situations. I did not use it but now i begin to use it more often , for example against bunkers : mortar 2 and poison can be really strong for taking down bunkers ( with eg 3 and if u are condi pistol 2 you have quite good poison access) . Poison reducts heal even if you have very low condi damage so it can help you ( sadly i discovered this at the end of the season )

PierPiero.9142:

I am not complaining on it but if you play other classes …

I play other classes, and frankly every elite spec needs a lot of “toning down”, this game is more braindead and the combat more tedious than it has ever been, but more importantly I play more than conquest PvP (which I stopped bothering with some time ago), and that is the only place scrapper is strong, in the rest of the game it is between decent and subpar, and I’m more than a little bored of having classes I play in WvW, PvE or even stronghold that are already sub-par there, nerfed because of what happens in conquest and that being the only part of the game where you are forced to fight on points.

And in regard to conquest PvP specifically, yes scrapper is strong, but the game isn’t simply about 1v1 on a point, you mention tempest does less damage, yet the reality is having a tempest in a team is more important than having a scrapper.

As for mortar I am aware it has its uses, but I was discussing it in the context of a ranged weapon for which it is a joke in any situation over short range where the opponent actually moves.

zinkz.7045:

PierPiero.9142:

I am not complaining on it but if you play other classes …

I play other classes, and frankly every elite spec needs a lot of “toning down”, this game is more braindead and the combat more tedious than it has ever been, but more importantly I play more than conquest PvP (which I stopped bothering with some time ago), and that is the only place scrapper is strong, in the rest of the game it is between decent and subpar, and I’m more than a little bored of having classes I play in WvW, PvE or even stronghold that are already sub-par there, nerfed because of what happens in conquest and that being the only part of the game where you are forced to fight on points.

And in regard to conquest PvP specifically, yes scrapper is strong, but the game isn’t simply about 1v1 on a point, you mention tempest does less damage, yet the reality is having a tempest in a team is more important than having a scrapper.

As for mortar I am aware it has its uses, but I was discussing it in the context of a ranged weapon for which it is a joke in any situation over short range where the opponent actually moves.

In this season i was so bored that i played a lot a condi f2p pistol pistol engineer. Not strong as scrapper but i had much more fun arriving in diamond that in season 2 and season 1 with scrapper … so i agree with you on HOT specs … too easy to play and too boring

I think scrapper reflect is one of the few things that keeps other classes from running glassy burst range builds. I mean if they didn’t have to contend with scrappers, the LB druids would be even more prolific. And you’d get people running more P/P theives.

However I feel the reflect from bulwark could be toned down. Hammer 2 is a low Cooldown, but you don’t have another weapon set to swap to on engi (unless you kit, which takes your skill slot and is not in meta these days). Hammer 2 can be baited. It is quite visible and runs out. It has a cast delay so they have to either get hit first then enact it, or they have to proactively use it, at which point you just wait it out. It is actually a well done skill because it needs skill to use effectively. It also does damage so your tradeoff to use it defensively, is that you are seldom going to be at the best position to use it for a reflect and do damage with it at the same time.

hello everyone.
in pvp im still using “old” rabid condi set up with firearms-tools-scrapper.
pistol-shield-medic gyro-bombs (yes bombs!) – bulwark gyro-elixir gun-sneak gyro/crate/mortar kit depends on my mood

and shield (with its so high cooldowns) still works as bombs works too, because in pvp YOU MUST FIGHT. so little classes use 29348348 stealth – 21941721479214 leaps – 2194721 shadowstep. and escape from whatever kind of fight (see wvw classes and builds)

(sigils im using: torment-generosity)

said this, i find ridiculos that in wvw shield is… USELESS! so high cooldown compared to the same effects (blocks and reflect) of hammer.

hammer is melee yes. hammer is front line or similar yes. but with a leap of 1000 u can get in fight or escape fights. while on other settings (pistol-rifle-shield-etc) only way of having mobility is to bring rocket boots

true that hammer reduce uses of kits, but it makes the gamemode much simple than old engineer with kits.

i would like to see lower cooldowns of shield and higher cooldowns of block-reflects of the hammer skills

funghetto.1584:

hello everyone.
in pvp im still using “old” rabid condi set up with firearms-tools-scrapper.
pistol-shield-medic gyro-bombs (yes bombs!) – bulwark gyro-elixir gun-sneak gyro/crate/mortar kit depends on my mood

and shield (with its so high cooldowns) still works as bombs works too, because in pvp YOU MUST FIGHT. so little classes use 29348348 stealth – 21941721479214 leaps – 2194721 shadowstep. and escape from whatever kind of fight (see wvw classes and builds)

(sigils im using: torment-generosity)

said this, i find ridiculos that in wvw shield is… USELESS! so high cooldown compared to the same effects (blocks and reflect) of hammer.

hammer is melee yes. hammer is front line or similar yes. but with a leap of 1000 u can get in fight or escape fights. while on other settings (pistol-rifle-shield-etc) only way of having mobility is to bring rocket boots

true that hammer reduce uses of kits, but it makes the gamemode much simple than old engineer with kits.

i would like to see lower cooldowns of shield and higher cooldowns of block-reflects of the hammer skills

I really love pistol pistols and after many different tries i found that scrapper is not the best choice for condi, i prefer f2p traits . I found for example firearms , alchemy and tools ( for p/p condi ) stronger than firearms ,alchemy scrapper . The fact is that you take toolkit , his block every 13 secs is really strong and also the magnet for interrupt some skills are great ( for example mesmer shield 4 ) . If you take tools you have also a reduction on toolbet skills and reduction on toolbet of FLamethrower is quite strong.

Another strong build i found with pistol pistol is to take firearms, alchemy ,invention .
With these traits i suggest you to point on poison with mortar . It seems weak but with pistol 2, eg 3 and mortar 2 you can spam poison really often and i found this quite strong in this season ( in the other 2 slot i usually put elixir S and something else , elixir C , elixir U (usefull for project distruction and for damage outout ) or sometime FT) .
You can have really good sustain and autodefense bomb dispenser is really a life saver in some situation becouse quite often many attack chain of your opponents begin with a CC . Bombs for be good, imho should have short fuse as a base trait …

Scrapper without hammer gives you no block so for me it is not stronger than core engi ( with pistol pistol obviously ) . I am speaking for spvp in which sneak gyro is strong but not so strong as wvw

My main issues with scrapper is prob just the boonspam/passive boons from traits on too low of a cd such as the free elixir B and elixir S if traited with HGH which almost everyone does all that coupled with something like water runes or runes that give boon duration they sit at like 40%. Next whats the purpose or even need for hammer auto 3rd chain to give 3 stacks of might i mean the first one gives 1 already and engs honestly have no issues getting might its overkill.

Lastly why is bulwark and whirl even a reflect and not just projectile destruction I understand the need for it so scrapper can actually have some sort of protection as melee vs ranged but the fact that its a reflect turns it into a passively offensive tool which is wrong just change them to projectile destruction not reflects. I personally messed around once and used elixir Us toolkit to get guardian reflect wall and then used bulwark toolkit plus elctro whirl all traited for cd reduction with toolkit and alchemy for some silly high reflect uptime.

I’d personally rather they buff other classes than nerf engi anymore. The previous round of nerfs made things so much more annoying in PvE. That leap finisher removed from hammer 3 took away defiance bar breaking power. The added deployment time to healing turret made it so much more awkward to use.

I’d prefer it if they just knocked off some damage or some healing in base stats here and there, or buff other classes to balance rather than messing with the class mechanics.

It’s probably the most complicated class to play as it stands.

buff other classes to match scrapper when every elite spec is already op. lets do it!

scrapper is all except complicated to play. 2 kits old engi was complicated but scrapper is really trivial to play …. one of the easiest class to learn

PierPiero.9142:

scrapper is all except complicated to play. 2 kits old engi was complicated but scrapper is really trivial to play …. one of the easiest class to learn

Every class is easy to learn in this game…

Helly.2597:

PierPiero.9142:

scrapper is all except complicated to play. 2 kits old engi was complicated but scrapper is really trivial to play …. one of the easiest class to learn

Every class is easy to learn in this game…

Not really. Mesmer and Engineer are probably the hardest to learn to play properly. As an example in support of this, I have won 1 vs 3s and even a 1 vs 4 against other Engineers.
On the other hand, playing a Revanent, Warrior, Guardian, Ele, pretty much everything else doesn’t require all that much ingenuity. Mesmers and Engineers though have some very timing specific and situation specific skills/combos that if you don’t know how/when to perform it seriously undercuts your power.

On the other hand, if you know how to play a condi Chrono or a bunker Scrapper well, then you have quite the edge over a lot of other classes 1 on 1 or even 1 on 2.

Warrior at the moment is pretty faceroll in just about any situation.

Core engi is not so simple to use , at least in spvp . I play it a lot since 2012 and i am playing it now becouse i find scrapper terribly boring . Scrapper is really easy and faceroll. You have great sustain , project reflection , block … mobility with eg 4 ,CC …. it is really easy. Try to play condition P/P engi not scrapper or with rifle and you see how was engi before scrapper , a completely different level of skill . Mesmer is much harder imho even if not impossible.
Chrono has been nerfed in last 2 season and in my opinion now is more difficult to play than scrapper : hammer is easier to use for make damage rather then bursting with shatter. Mesmer staff is great but it has not (alone) a great damage and quite often sword is used for sword 2 to avoid burst…. it is not simple as scrapper imho .
Chronomancer has cd longer than scrapper , u can not switch weapon when you want like you can do with scrapper and Elixir Gun ( a kit ) so it is less forgivening .

Ging.6485:

snip

Well of course better players are going to play classes better than bad players. I can point out within the past month I’ve played warrior, thief, revenant, and engi and pulled off 1v4s with each class, but it is more about just having better game mechanics and game knowledge than being a complete master of each class.

What I’m saying is that a good player can basically pick up any class in game and within a day or two be able to perform well above the average player who mains that class. And a decent chunk of that is because much of the game is focused on knowledge of all the classes (ie how they set up damage) and how to do combos yourself. Its all very transferable between classes regardless what you play. Knowledge of animations to dodge, how to count dodges to land your own burst, cooldown timings, common combos for each class, etc are all not class dependent.

Also you’re kidding yourself if you think Condi Chrono and Bunker Scrapper are difficult specs to learn for an experienced player. Both have an absurdly large amount of fail safes available to save misplays, while also being able to spit out damage constantly.

Helly.2597:

Ging.6485:

snip

Well of course better players are going to play classes better than bad players. I can point out within the past month I’ve played warrior, thief, revenant, and engi and pulled off 1v4s with each class, but it is more about just having better game mechanics and game knowledge than being a complete master of each class.

What I’m saying is that a good player can basically pick up any class in game and within a day or two be able to perform well above the average player who mains that class. And a decent chunk of that is because much of the game is focused on knowledge of all the classes (ie how they set up damage) and how to do combos yourself. Its all very transferable between classes regardless what you play. Knowledge of animations to dodge, how to count dodges to land your own burst, cooldown timings, common combos for each class, etc are all not class dependent.

Also you’re kidding yourself if you think Condi Chrono and Bunker Scrapper are difficult specs to learn for an experienced player. Both have an absurdly large amount of fail safes available to save misplays, while also being able to spit out damage constantly.

Took me personally quite a while to learn Chrono. I picked up Warrior, Rev, Guardian, and Ele almost instantly. My first opinion with Warrior and Rev especially were just how straight forward they were, basically no learning curve.

Ubik.8315:

Yeah, scrapper cooldowns are pretty ridiculously short for sPvP. Hopefully they’ll make a pass over it when they separate out PvP and PvE/WvW.

Number 2 skills on other classes :
Guardian hammer2 – 5 sec cd, True shot – 4 sec cd
Warrior hammer 2 – 6 sec cd
Revenant hammer 2 – 5 sec cd, Block on staf 10 sec cd.
Etc. etc.
And scrapper doesnt have a swap weapon, are you all here to the “ridiculous” crying.

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

PierPiero.9142:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

Lalainnia.3598:

PierPiero.9142:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

The current state of the game is less of class balance, and more that ranged specs aren’t viable. Every class has a viable PvP spec. Even ones that can stand up to Scrapper if played right, just none of them are ranged. The current meta dictates that you really can’t just stand a mile away shooting projectiles from a safe vantage point.

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

This is nothing new though. Every balance patch always has a few specs that stand up above other. I think as it stands, the current balance allows the largest number of classes to be viable. There is just no room whatsoever for ranged options. Which I really don’t mind considering that PvP is about capturing points.

Ging.6485:

Lalainnia.3598:

PierPiero.9142:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

The current state of the game is less of class balance, and more that ranged specs aren’t viable. Every class has a viable PvP spec. Even ones that can stand up to Scrapper if played right, just none of them are ranged. The current meta dictates that you really can’t just stand a mile away shooting projectiles from a safe vantage point.

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

This is nothing new though. Every balance patch always has a few specs that stand up above other. I think as it stands, the current balance allows the largest number of classes to be viable. There is just no room whatsoever for ranged options. Which I really don’t mind considering that PvP is about capturing points.

O I agree with the largest number of classes being viable to date I just find it very very necessary and total overkill for bulwark gyros toolkit skill and electro whirl to be reflects instead of projectile destruction sort of like eles focus skill swirling winds it stops projectiles. No need for scrapper to have a mobile dome that reflects projectiles or a strong attack on a low cd that does the same should simply be changed to destroy projectiles instead.

Lalainnia.3598:

Ging.6485:

Lalainnia.3598:

PierPiero.9142:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

The current state of the game is less of class balance, and more that ranged specs aren’t viable. Every class has a viable PvP spec. Even ones that can stand up to Scrapper if played right, just none of them are ranged. The current meta dictates that you really can’t just stand a mile away shooting projectiles from a safe vantage point.

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

This is nothing new though. Every balance patch always has a few specs that stand up above other. I think as it stands, the current balance allows the largest number of classes to be viable. There is just no room whatsoever for ranged options. Which I really don’t mind considering that PvP is about capturing points.

O I agree with the largest number of classes being viable to date I just find it very very necessary and total overkill for bulwark gyros toolkit skill and electro whirl to be reflects instead of projectile destruction sort of like eles focus skill swirling winds it stops projectiles. No need for scrapper to have a mobile dome that reflects projectiles or a strong attack on a low cd that does the same should simply be changed to destroy projectiles instead.

Or, you know, you could stop attacking with projectiles and not kill yourself >.<

Jerus.4350:

Lalainnia.3598:

Ging.6485:

Lalainnia.3598:

PierPiero.9142:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Scrappers don’t have a second weapon. Yes, they have kits. But if being forced to have at least 1 or 2 kits becomes the norm for scrappers if they get nerfed on hammer cd’s, that would murder engineer build diversity.

I saw someone in this thread post that hammer 3 is a 1000 leap, so they can enter and exit combat at will.. That argument is silly, because the real distance gained is close to 100-200 out of combat and about 300-400 in combat. Yes, its better if you’re snared too, but its absolutely nothing compared say, an instant teleport.

My question to those who think scrapper’s are op is this: You claim that these cd’s are the offenders here. Okay. But what is it that is offending you? What about scrapper is overpowered? Furthermore, what class are you playing?

For me projectil hate is too strong, and i play condition engi p/p or scrapper . Against some classes that can not melee scrapper the projectil hate of scrapper is too strong , it makes scrapper really hard to beat.. you can only run away … ( i play it but i try also to stay on the other side of the river )

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

The current state of the game is less of class balance, and more that ranged specs aren’t viable. Every class has a viable PvP spec. Even ones that can stand up to Scrapper if played right, just none of them are ranged. The current meta dictates that you really can’t just stand a mile away shooting projectiles from a safe vantage point.

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

This is nothing new though. Every balance patch always has a few specs that stand up above other. I think as it stands, the current balance allows the largest number of classes to be viable. There is just no room whatsoever for ranged options. Which I really don’t mind considering that PvP is about capturing points.

O I agree with the largest number of classes being viable to date I just find it very very necessary and total overkill for bulwark gyros toolkit skill and electro whirl to be reflects instead of projectile destruction sort of like eles focus skill swirling winds it stops projectiles. No need for scrapper to have a mobile dome that reflects projectiles or a strong attack on a low cd that does the same should simply be changed to destroy projectiles instead.

Or, you know, you could stop attacking with projectiles and not kill yourself >.<

Obviously as you stated someone should stop attacking with projectiles while its up, my argument is that the uptime combined with how it functions aka moves with the user and doesn’t require doesn’t restrict you from other abilites is currently to strong and should be changed on some lv my suggestion to that is i to change it to simple porjectile destruction instead of reflecting scrappers will still have the defensive portion.

Ging.6485:

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

So…3 classes better than Scrapper, 2 are stalemate vs Scrapper, and 3 are worse than Scrapper? Sounds like it’s balanced to me!

Lalainnia.3598:

I really don’t think its the projectile hate the projectile defensive’s they have is fine its literally the fact that its specifically projectile (reflects) that are the main issue its extra damage outside of the normal damage they do while using abilities it’s overkill and unnecessary.

A ranged shooter is generally going to try and stay outside of the 180 melee range of the Electro Whirl or even the Scrapper’s auto attack, so the Scrapper is not usually getting damage on that ranged shooter on top of projectile reflection at the same time. If the Scrapper is somehow able to close the gap with his really slow leap, the ranged shooter can either swap to a melee weapon or get out of melee range to continue with ranged weapons.

Sylvyn.4750:

Ging.6485:

Scrapper’s real strength though, is in it’s sustain. Condi pressure is strong against scrapper but power pressure is extremely weak. This means that Scrapper is king of the power battles. Good counters are Necros, Condi Warriors, and Revenants. Thieves and Mesmers will get eaten alive. Bunker Ele and Druid is a stalemate. DH can’t win a fight but will stay alive longer than Thief or Mesmer.

So…3 classes better than Scrapper, 2 are stalemate vs Scrapper, and 3 are worse than Scrapper? Sounds like it’s balanced to me!

I think most of the complaints actually come from Pistol Thieves and Longbow Rangers. Dragon Hunters from what I’ve seen have all but given up on the Longbow, they tend to just combine traps with melee weapons. However I occasionally do see some Thieves try to run Pistol/Pistol and some Rangers/Druids try to run a power longbow build. If I am on a mesmer or something like that, they can snipe me and burst me down if I am not paying attention.

On Scrapper though, combined with the sustain, I have more than enough time to put up a reflection and they just kill themselves. It’s cheap builds complaining about a counter to them.

PierPiero.9142:

scrapper is all except complicated to play. 2 kits old engi was complicated but scrapper is really trivial to play …. one of the easiest class to learn

and this is the interesting thing

scrappers pro and also downfall is the fact it is so simple
they got a triple leap and the rest is all melee swings