Guild Wars 2

Hello Guys,

I am the only one who is getting tired of the Scrapper?
I mean, its really a great gift to our class and it provides exactly what we always needed.

But i am the only one who think that scrapper is boring and faceroll to play? I love the classic rifle/grenade engi, and all topics in the forum are just about Scrapper.

I created my engi at gw2 launch, and i enjoy weapon swap 24/7, I love that the classic engi because its hard to play, and very hard to master. And the scrapper is just a faceroll, every noob could play it, because its compared to the classic engi a lot better.

There is no skill to evade, block, reflect and leap into water fields, because hammer skills are made to deal incredible damage and sustain.

RIP classic engi, I miss you

If you don’t enjoy scrapper and have more fun playing base engineer, just do so. Nobody is forcing you to use the elite spec.

I actually enjoy it really much, I’m main engineer since close to launch and love the steampunk theme of it. But I really enjoy defensive and tanky playstyle, something that was hard to achieve with base engineer, because we don’t have tanky weapons. That’s why I really love the scrapper hammer.

Yeah I agree with the OP I really miss the time when the old engineer (grenade condi, SD) dominated pvp nowdays it’s just spam all your skills and you block, cc, get boons, deal heavy dmg and heal. Really wish we could get the core engi trait lines the way they were before June.

iam rifle SD Scrapper and i enjoy it ^^ .

i play classic pistol pistol condi engineer with mercenary amulet and it is really fun and strong .

I got confused at weapon swap sorry

Nubu.6148:

iam rifle SD Scrapper and i enjoy it ^^ .

Nice! I actually got tired of Hammer OP nonsense so I decided to try out Rifle SD again since it used to be my favorite spec.

Can I ask what your build looks like for Rifle SD Scrapper?

Currently I am running:
Tools 1,1,2 Alchemy 2,2,1 Scrapper 3,1,3. Paladin Amulet, Hoelbrek Runes. HT, ToolKit, Rifle Turret, Elixir U, Elixir X.

I agree with OP, the hammer kind of destroyed engis identity. I play engi since day 1 and always loved the play style with kit swapping, rifle CC´s to set up bursts, nades and big explosions.

And while hammer is fun as well, it feels like were forced into running hammer. Hammer adds so much that it became mandatory. Theres simply no need for offensive kits anymore, just pick the best tools(CC, boons) to improve your “hammerisation” plus elixiers for condi remove and youre fine.

Before HoT, we built around offensive kits, now we build around hammer.

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I agree with OP, the hammer kind of destroyed engis identity. I play engi since day 1 and always loved the play style with kit swapping, rifle CC´s to set up bursts, nades and big explosions.

And while hammer is fun as well, it feels like were forced into running hammer. Hammer adds so much that it became mandatory. Theres simply no need for offensive kits anymore, just pick the best tools(CC, boons) to improve your “hammerisation” plus elixiers for condi remove and youre fine.

Before HoT, we built around offensive kits, now we build around hammer.

I don’t agree with u. Hammer is strong , ok , but now, with power wrench , it is quite easy to create good builds without scrapper/hammer, using power rifle or condi pistol pistol. Obviuosly hammer is easier to play. But rifle build or condi build now can be really strong ( a great part for condi build is new mercenary amulet )

I’m just learning to use Scrapper. Although I find the Hammer fun and relaxing, the spec is clearly not for me. I prefer real mobility, where I have to control where I’m going intead of letting the computer leap for me, and I don’t like neither the Gyros or how the Scrapper seems to be so narrow focused around PvP play. I must admit: in a totally irrational and uncivilized way, I simply DESPISE the F-Gyro.

That being said, I think the Hammer is way, way, vaaastly superior to the Nades. Nades are efective and “classic”, and a lot of builds still use them. I still use them in most of my builds, in fact. But they are inmensely BORING.

I just wish Hammer were a Kit. It would be amazing.

agreed. Hammer is so much better damage/cc/block option that we are strait pigeonholed . I started playing engi because of the vas possibilities in builds, range options. and mobility. Hammer has completely changed that. and pieropiero yes other builds can still be strong, hell even very strong. but i think we all know deep down inside that the new HOT abilities/spec/wep are the best possible option for just about every class.

people blame kitten balance in classes some blame new wvw maps . I think deep down inside the introduction of HOT content coupled with the free to play dynamic kind of made GW2 a pay to win game in a sense. Does that make sense? am i way off? ::shrug:: something about this whole transition has left me with a pretty awful taste in my mouth

mov.1246:

Hello Guys,

I am the only one who is getting tired of the Scrapper?
I mean, its really a great gift to our class and it provides exactly what we always needed.

But i am the only one who think that scrapper is boring and faceroll to play? I love the classic rifle/grenade engi, and all topics in the forum are just about Scrapper.

Nope I love it, love playing it in pvp and love it in WvW smaller group skirmishes. I like other engi specs as well though.

PierPiero.9142:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I agree with OP, the hammer kind of destroyed engis identity. I play engi since day 1 and always loved the play style with kit swapping, rifle CC´s to set up bursts, nades and big explosions.

And while hammer is fun as well, it feels like were forced into running hammer. Hammer adds so much that it became mandatory. Theres simply no need for offensive kits anymore, just pick the best tools(CC, boons) to improve your “hammerisation” plus elixiers for condi remove and youre fine.

Before HoT, we built around offensive kits, now we build around hammer.

I don’t agree with u. Hammer is strong , ok , but now, with power wrench , it is quite easy to create good builds without scrapper/hammer, using power rifle or condi pistol pistol. Obviuosly hammer is easier to play. But rifle build or condi build now can be really strong ( a great part for condi build is new mercenary amulet )

Well, toolkit is fine and always has been fine, but power wrench really isnt that kind of a big improvement. Most times it decreases your survivability by taking tools instead of inventions/alchemy so its usually preferable to run toolkit without powerwrench. Sadly…

And mercenary amulet is basically a carrion amulet, how does this improve our p/p builds that much?

HoT was released, I leveled my scrapper spec, saw that it brings no new interesting playstyle for me and returned to p/p condi engi. It saddens me, I hoped that the new elite spec will bring a new option for me to play without kits and in a new way. That’s only changed by hammer (which is great). I guess I hoped for more. Because of basically no new mechanic for me, I stopped playing it in pvp. :/

displacedTitan.6897:

Nubu.6148:

iam rifle SD Scrapper and i enjoy it ^^ .

Nice! I actually got tired of Hammer OP nonsense so I decided to try out Rifle SD again since it used to be my favorite spec.

Can I ask what your build looks like for Rifle SD Scrapper?

Currently I am running:
Tools 1,1,2 Alchemy 2,2,1 Scrapper 3,1,3. Paladin Amulet, Hoelbrek Runes. HT, ToolKit, Rifle Turret, Elixir U, Elixir X.

Here you are ,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUnUUB1UhlcBubBEqilJjieur7+W8ZKgAYcEqgIA-TJBFABtv/AAXAgCeAAiXGAA

The last trait in the scrapper line is the new Quickness trait .

I can only speak for PvE. Imo you can’t camp hammer only. You still want grenades, mortar kit and other kits for optimal result. I may use hammer in a bout 50-60%, rest is grenades and under certain circumstances mortar cuz of 1.5k range and the combo fields.

Besides, the hammer was always mentioned as the weapon of choice by many engineers before they introduced the scrapper, so it was mostly fan service.

The problem for wvw/pvp is just that you are FORCED go take hammer. It provides too much over rifle or pistols.
It is easy to say “play what u like” but to be really competive u have no choice… scrapper and the hammer are just too powerful.
Hammer gives you sustain, damage and some cc, basically all what you need in pvp.

mov.1246:

RIP classic engi, I miss you

He’s not dead. He lives in your heart.

mov.1246:

Hammer gives you sustain, damage and some cc, basically all what you need in pvp.

Maybe that’s the issue, then?
The scrapper was deliberately made as a tanky melee alternative to the normal engineer.
It’s like that by design. Of course, if the mode you’re playing is based upon staying inside a point, it isn’t exactly surprising that it works well. That is what was supposed to do, after all. That, and nothing else.
It’s the same reason why turrets were considered powerful once their bugs were fixed, and that had nothing to do with their passiveness. They were designed to control and protect an area, and they were used to do just and exactly that. We all know how they ended up.
I would like to avoid a similar end for the scrapper.

The issue is hammer + egun + HGH allowing you to deal good damage without taking a single offensive traitline. This wouldn’t really have been a problem pre-HoT when we only had 2 defensive lines and 1 utility line, but HoT introduced our best defensive line yet. 3 defensive lines full of sustain, boons, +stats, and condi removes on engi is enough to make even someone using berserker’s amulet feel tanky, and in a game mode where you have to contest points to win, a build with damage and 3 defensive lines is always going to be preferable to a build with damage and 2 (or even 1) defensive lines. Until that issue gets addressed there’s not going to be any real build diversity for engi in PvP above mid-tier.

Also hammer skills are just plain way better than the skills on our other weapons. Like seriously, a triple leap finisher? On the class with the best access to water fields in the game? With high damage and evade frames, on a 12 second cooldown? You just can’t make this kitten up.

Given that most complaints go to rapid regeneration, what if they changed it a bit instead of a straight nerf? Like, lowering the heal but making it effect allies as well? Making super speed recover endurance, rather than healing? A combination of the above?

I’d sell my first 6 born to have scrapper hammer on my warrior

Ya Conquest only is to blame for a lot of the balance issues in this game. Hammer included.

Why we dont have other maps its beyond me. 3 years for them to design a new game mode that they have zero faith in is pretty pathetic.

Payload maps would reward the defensive team having more range to snipe at people on the payload. Push maps would incentivize more movement oriented classes that could get to the various objectives around the map.

I guess its easier to just keep tweaking numbers instead of addressing the real problems in pvp, map modes and class swapping (meta-gaming mid match).

I do think the super speed portion of rapid regeneration is too high and should be brought down ~30% or so, I don’t think it’s the main problem with scrapper, or even close to the main problem. I look at RR as our replacement for backpack regenerator, which hardly anyone takes anymore after the ‘fix’. In that respect it is overperforming by about 35% or so, but it’s pretty negligible when you consider all the other healing we have.

I think probably the biggest single problem with the sustain on scrapper is that I can pop healing turret near an enemy, overcharge, rocket charge, and then detonate for a total of 10.8k healing with only 250 healing power as long as the healing turret doesn’t die prematurely or the target teleports away. Leaps and blasts in water fields are very strong right now, and we can abuse the hell out of them.

mov.1246:

The problem for wvw/pvp is just that you are FORCED go take hammer. It provides too much over rifle or pistols.

While I find the rifle… mediocre… You’re not really forced to take hammer in WvW. Pistol/pistol still beat it in 1v1 IMO and very small scale (<5). Its not until you get to groups of 10+ that you start seeing good use for a heavy hammer melee scrapper (and unfortunetly at around 30+ you usually get brushed aside in favor of GWEN meta, might as well go pistol/rifle ranged again). Hammer is good fun though.

Dawdler.8521:

mov.1246:

The problem for wvw/pvp is just that you are FORCED go take hammer. It provides too much over rifle or pistols.

While I find the rifle… mediocre… You’re not really forced to take hammer in WvW. Pistol/pistol still beat it in 1v1 IMO and very small scale (<5). Its not until you get to groups of 10+ that you start seeing good use for a heavy hammer melee scrapper (and unfortunetly at around 30+ you usually get brushed aside in favor of GWEN meta, might as well go pistol/rifle ranged again). Hammer is good fun though.

i wish condi engi was better in pvp, i like blowtorch. but it just isnt. and pvp approximates small scale wvw. and you only see scrappers there now.

insanemaniac.2456:

and pvp approximates small scale wvw

Hahaha not even close. You dont have to stand on a tiny 3m wide capping circle and hold it, you have an entire map to manouver on. Effective roaming builds and effective sPvP builds can be made very different.

Dawdler.8521:

insanemaniac.2456:

and pvp approximates small scale wvw

Hahaha not even close. You dont have to stand on a tiny 3m wide capping circle and hold it, you have an entire map to manouver on. Effective roaming builds and effective sPvP builds can be made very different.

yeah ok buddy, keep on disengaging from and resetting fights all day and call it roaming. sounds real fun.

insanemaniac.2456:

Dawdler.8521:

insanemaniac.2456:

and pvp approximates small scale wvw

Hahaha not even close. You dont have to stand on a tiny 3m wide capping circle and hold it, you have an entire map to manouver on. Effective roaming builds and effective sPvP builds can be made very different.

yeah ok buddy, keep on disengaging from and resetting fights all day and call it roaming. sounds real fun.

Wvw builds can be different for 2 reason … 1 you don’t have to stand on a point …2 you have food and really different and unbalanced stats . Scrapper is strong , but now, not scrapper build can be really really strong too. New Mercenary amulet in pvp put condi engi again on the table . It is a different kind of playing but it is really strong ( it is hold style engi ) . The same for rifle : with new power wrench rifle based power meta, like the old marauder meta, can be really strong becouse they had a boost in survivability and in damage. Try them if you don’t belive. Scrapper has only the great advantage to be easier to be played … only that .

My suggestion would be not to nerf the scrapper AGAIN, i would slightly buff rifle and pistols.

RIFLE:

1. AA: is in a good spot right now
2. Net shot: this clunky net rarely hits its target at longer distance. I would replace this by a “knee shot” with the same effect, just remove this uncertain net.
3. Blunderbuss: is ok now.
4. Overcharged shot: is ok now.
5. Jump shot: I often get interrupted at the jump animation, maybe there should be an evading like the hammer’s rocket charge.

PISTOLS:

1. Fragmentation shot: make is as “explosion” that it could benefit from explosive traits.
2. Poison dart volley: all shots should hit its target.
3. Static shot: fix this bug with chemical rounds and it is ok.
4. Blow torch: just a slightly bigger hitbox would be great.
5. Glue shot: is ok.

mov.1246:

My suggestion would be not to nerf the scrapper AGAIN, i would slightly buff rifle and pistols.

RIFLE:

1. AA: is in a good spot right now
2. Net shot: this clunky net rarely hits its target at longer distance. I would replace this by a “knee shot” with the same effect, just remove this uncertain net.
3. Blunderbuss: is ok now.
4. Overcharged shot: is ok now.
5. Jump shot: I often get interrupted at the jump animation, maybe there should be an evading like the hammer’s rocket charge.

PISTOLS:

1. Fragmentation shot: make is as “explosion” that it could benefit from explosive traits.
2. Poison dart volley: all shots should hit its target.
3. Static shot: fix this bug with chemical rounds and it is ok.
4. Blow torch: just a slightly bigger hitbox would be great.
5. Glue shot: is ok.

For pistols you first suggestion is wrong becouse it would be unusefull in many cases . With pistols you play condition builds so you chose not to take explosive but firearms ( for IP ) Firearms is a must for a pistol pistol build , not explosive. Perhaps i’d put pistol 1 piercing… it would be enough imho .
Now, imho , for pistols , the stronger direction is to take firearms , alchemy and tools ( for power wrench ) , explosive would be usefull only with pistols and nades but you should sacrify your survivability now .

PierPiero.9142:

insanemaniac.2456:

Dawdler.8521:

insanemaniac.2456:

and pvp approximates small scale wvw

Hahaha not even close. You dont have to stand on a tiny 3m wide capping circle and hold it, you have an entire map to manouver on. Effective roaming builds and effective sPvP builds can be made very different.

yeah ok buddy, keep on disengaging from and resetting fights all day and call it roaming. sounds real fun.

Wvw builds can be different for 2 reason … 1 you don’t have to stand on a point …2 you have food and really different and unbalanced stats . Scrapper is strong , but now, not scrapper build can be really really strong too. New Mercenary amulet in pvp put condi engi again on the table . It is a different kind of playing but it is really strong ( it is hold style engi ) . The same for rifle : with new power wrench rifle based power meta, like the old marauder meta, can be really strong becouse they had a boost in survivability and in damage. Try them if you don’t belive. Scrapper has only the great advantage to be easier to be played … only that .

its not that i disbelieve. im saying those pvp builds will also translate into good roaming builds because they are the better choice for staying alive and fighting.

wvw will lag behind pvp because there is an expense associated with your build that pvp doesnt have.

insanemaniac.2456:

its not that i disbelieve. im saying those pvp builds will also translate into good roaming builds because they are the better choice for staying alive and fighting.

wvw will lag behind pvp because there is an expense associated with your build that pvp doesnt have.

In my opinion wvw builds have a great difference from pvp builds. In pvp you can play without speed and take them from traits in fight (firearms/hammer) or from sigils elixir or also don’t take it at all . In wvw at least 25% speed is quite a must and 33% is better.
So for engineesr it means that one of this : tools, invention or rune of speed/traveler is a must and it limits a lot builds diversity . You can take it from medkit … but … in fight medkit is so bleah …. I tryed to play viper with nades and toolkit taking explosive, firearms and alchemy as i do for pvp but it is not so effective for no speed access. I have to take invention but it is really bad choice without alchemy

Skill ceiling dropped substantially with hot
We went from 2-4kit to one kit,to one kit and spamage:(
Landing nades and cc was important nowadays it comes down the more or less about passive procs and traits.