Scrapper needs a trait rework in PvE
I think it lacks those things as well … but unlike you, I believe that’s intended as Scrapper is clearly a PVP spec more than anything and shouldn’t be given any sort of PVE flavour; we have more than enough of that.
It’s not that hard to stack 25 vulnerability just swinging your hammer. If you take into consideration PvE is essentially a zerg fest, you have dozens of others applying vuln as well. 25 stacks of might is also quite easy to achieve with a little boon duration and quickness. Applied force is also good for both raw hammer swings as well as buffing juggernaut. You essentially get 33% quickness uptime, or 50% if you add a little boon duration. If you combine that with Elixir U, you have a lot of quickness and just rip through things. Faster vuln and might stacks.
Overall, I do agree traits need to be reworked. Every trait should be a difficult choice and tradeoff. The firearms specialization is a good example of tradeoffs at all levels and it encourages build diversity. With Scrapper, there’s clearly sub-par traits like Shocking Speed, Expert Examination, Impact Savant, and Final Salvo that are inferior compared to the alternatives. Though it wasn’t always bad. The later two traits I mentioned would be fine had Anet stuck to their original Scrapper design and allow the gyros to daze. Such as it is though, stunning and dazing is no longer a focal point for our class and so those traits should be reworked.
Another big issue, and prob what makes the scrapper trait not a good choice in pve, its how centered is in the hammer and the gyros, take for example ‘the Thief’s specialization, the trait obviously helps staff, however, its still a great trait overall thanks to his triple evade, and the variety of other options if you arent interested in Daredevil stuff, an evade that helps staff, but also an evade that its good no matter what you are going for, and another evade related to condi builds, wich uses weapons and utilities zero related to Daredevil.
And thats the issue with this one, The only value i have seen with the scrapper trait outside of hammer and gyros is the big value that gives to Elixir’s B Toolbelt skill (3 stacks of Stability, plus mass momentum, can easily generate you 7 stacks of might and more if it’s traited with alchemy.) and the sinergy that Applied Force has in Builds that mass a bunch of Boon Duration, otherwise… meh, better spend it in Dps or In Survivability traits, whatever you are missing.
(edited by Ivantreil.3092)
[…]The later two traits I mentioned would be fine had Anet stuck to their original Scrapper design and allow the gyros to daze. Such as it is though, stunning and dazing is no longer a focal point for our class and so those traits should be reworked.
Because of this, I would argue it isn’t actually just a problem with traits…
Gyros and the Scrapper had a theme in the beginning, an identity.
No one really wanted a new pet utility skill, but they still went with Gyros. But I thought back then it is fine because they had a theme. They were the only pet class in the game which is instantly casted. That was true for 4 out of 6 and it was fine.
Then they gave a cast time to Stealth and Medic Gyro. So now 4 out of 6 Gyros had a cast time. Identity successfully removed.
Same for the Scrapper in general. Disrupting was major part of his identity, having alot of traits related to stuns/dazes and getting benefit out of it. Then they just removed 6(!) dazes from Scrapper by removing the daze from Gyros. Because of “purity of purpose”. Again, they removed a core part of the identity of the elite spec.
On top of that, Scrapper got the most niche and unnoticable elite spec mechanic in the game. It is basically just useful in PvP and nowhere else.
I wish they would just give back the instacast and dazes for Gyros. Scrapper is a failed elite spec in my opinion and if engineer gets the least thought through elite spec in the next round again, I won’t bother taking a look at this game anymore…..
Besides the gyros/minion issues there are still lots of problem with base engi.
Remember Simulat Supplier? Medcical Dispersion Field? Gadgeteer? Thermobaric detonation?
I only play PVE for the most part. I have three scrappers and they can hold their own quite well. If you need a tanky scrapper go with knight gear. I never use the hammer as it lacks ability. Weapon doesn’t really matter as you’ll be using the flamethrower almost all the time. Pistol/shield or Rifle work better. Firearms and Inventions. Build around a juggernaut and take the juggernaut buff in scrapper. Then Runes of Strength on armor and weapons, Generosity is the secondary rune as it procs faster than purity and adds to damage. Build experimental turrets with shields. You won’t be using a single gyro in this build but you won’t need it. You should be packing 12-14 stacks of might without starting combat. You’ll be at 25 stacks of might at practically all times in combat. For underwater bomb kit, grenade kit, and missile/harpoon turret.
The more moble option is knight armor with air runes. Take healing from speed and super speed in scrapper. Pistol/shield or Rifle, though, hammer can be fun. Your still focusing on flamethrower. Fire and Gen runes on weapons. Take alchemy build around healing with invigorating speed and Iron blooded. Still use firearms with juggernaut and no scope. You should stack alot of buffs and use gyros for healing, explosive and bulwark, supply kit elite skill. they will keep you full of health and keep groups at bay.
Once you get the hang of the mobile build you’ll want to go berzerker gear with air runes, swap fire rune for air and add frailty. And focus on cc and you’ll take down most things.
The trick for this build is to keep mobs in front of your flamethrower and straff.
For me these scrapper builds are fully capable of making short work of PVE mobs even in HOT.
(edited by Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921)
For me these scrapper builds are fully capable of making short work of PVE mobs even in HOT.
Yeah, sure, it works in open world PvE, but that’s mostly because almost anything works in open world. Try that build in raids or fractals (where performance actually matters) and you’ll find it horribly subpar (not to mention that camping flamethrower is mind-numbingly boring in my opinion). Saying “scrapper works in open world” doesn’t mean that scrapper is in a good spot.
Pakkazull.6894
You’ll get no argument from me.
I normally don’t consider Raiding PVE. If it’s like the last game I played your focus is on fitting a role in the group and is vastly different from world exploration. I’m guessing Fractals are the same from your post.
I’d rather see it given to CORE engi. Put it in the tools traitline. Scrapper already has enough use in other 2 game modes. Plus the ress with gyro is extremely strong, could be borderline OP in raids.
I’m guessing Fractals are the same from your post.
Kind of. Fractals are a bit more lenient though.
I’d rather see it given to CORE engi. Put it in the tools traitline. Scrapper already has enough use in other 2 game modes. Plus the ress with gyro is extremely strong, could be borderline OP in raids.
Engineer is the only class that doesn’t use its elite spec in PvE metabuilds. Literally the only one. Saying “scrapper is good in 2/3 game modes so it’s fine” is kind of strange when every other elite spec is good in 3/3 game modes. Also, no, the function gyro isn’t “OP” in raids; sure, it’s probably nice to have if you’re playing with beginners, but that’s the thing: it’s only useful if you fail in the first place. It’s just not worth the DPS loss.
Scrapper was meant to be a defensive support and control spec. not dps.
The problem is Gyros are useless in PvE.
If Gyros could be maintained in any meaningful form and had meaningful bonuses to pve scrapper would be a good support in group content.
But, at the moment, bulwark gyro doesn’t offer enough defense, healing gyro doesn’t offer enough sustain, explosive gyro doesn’t offer enough breakbar dmg, purge is meh, shredder is a joke…
Engineer is the only class that doesn’t use its elite spec in PvE metabuilds. Literally the only one. Saying “scrapper is good in 2/3 game modes so it’s fine” is kind of strange when every other elite spec is good in 3/3 game modes. Also, no, the function gyro isn’t “OP” in raids; sure, it’s probably nice to have if you’re playing with beginners, but that’s the thing: it’s only useful if you fail in the first place. It’s just not worth the DPS loss.
Ha, in that case the explosives trait should have more priority according to you, as fas as i know, that trait only sees play pve as a full offensive stuff or nothing, 1/3 game modes play this trait.
Not all the traits were meant to be used for everything, and if they where, 2 things, they have essential stuff that are fundamental in the class, or the power creep is high in that trait.
If anything i see the not full use of scrapper as a positive thing, we are the only class (that i know) that didn’t went full dependant in the specialization after the release, scrapper is truly a side option and not a upgrade option like what happened to the rest.
(edited by Ivantreil.3092)
Ha, in that case the explosives trait should have more priority according to you, as fas as i know, that trait only sees play pve as a full offensive stuff or nothing, 1/3 game modes play this trait.
You’re comparing a regular trait line to an elite spec. I’d hardly call them equivalent.
scrapper is truly a side option and not a upgrade option like what happened to the rest.
That’s not really true though, is it. Scrapper is useless in high end PvE, and a straight upgrade in PvP. I wouldn’t exactly call it a side option in any game mode. Possibly WvW.
i think you can use scrapper tank role in PvE. why all use only mesmers?
i think you can use scrapper tank role in PvE. why all use only mesmers?
You’re going to need mesmers to give alacrity and quickness anyway, and while doing this they can’t deal much damage so they might as well tank. Using a scrapper tank would effectively “sacrifice” a DPS slot.
Scrappers are beyond fine and even amazing in fractals especially if pugging. They only fall off in raids because they don’t bring any sort of unique like buff whereas almost every other class does.
Scrappers are beyond fine and even amazing in fractals especially if pugging. They only fall off in raids because they don’t bring any sort of unique like buff whereas almost every other class does.
Please, enlighten me, how exactly are scrappers amazing in fractals? Literally the only specific use for scrapper I can think of is using Sneak Gyro to open the way in the Underground Facility fractal. If you mean using Function Gyro to ress downed people, again, like I said above, that is only useful if you fail in the first place.
I’d rather see it given to CORE engi. Put it in the tools traitline. Scrapper already has enough use in other 2 game modes. Plus the ress with gyro is extremely strong, could be borderline OP in raids.
Engineer is the only class that doesn’t use its elite spec in PvE metabuilds. Literally the only one. Saying “scrapper is good in 2/3 game modes so it’s fine” is kind of strange when every other elite spec is good in 3/3 game modes. Also, no, the function gyro isn’t “OP” in raids; sure, it’s probably nice to have if you’re playing with beginners, but that’s the thing: it’s only useful if you fail in the first place. It’s just not worth the DPS loss.
What I had in mind was a trait that would buff power builds in PvE and PvP alike. And since it would be place in Tools, the meta builds couldn’t take advantage of it (because Alchemy and Inventions are pretty much a must)