Guild Wars 2

To get it out of the way, yes I know there have been many suggested changes and this post seems like just another in a sea of proposed changes. Still, this post is more about the methodology of how to approach an elite spec and how scrapper in particular is lacking. Linked is a crude Photoshop attempt at how the proposed changes wound impact the scrapper UI(floating stuff around character are supposed represent to be gyros).
https://i.imgur.com/WJzUB94.jpg
(similar to this part of the expansion announcement trailer)https://youtu.be/IOUk2y0K2m8?t=1m42s

Elite spec philosophy:
The purpose of the elite spec is to disrupt current core spec meta builds and provide the player with a different play style not explicitly found in current class.

Current problem:
Scrapper is not as functionally unique as other elite specs (example: Reaper, Chronomancer, and Druid).

Proposed changes from current scraper implementation:
Engineer tool belt replaced with gyro belt.
Gyros are a constant scrapper mechanic hence a distinct visual contrast from core class.
New skill to replace gyros is called fields which are essentially the same as current gyro tool belt skills (Reconstruction Field, Defense Field, Hyper Field, Chemical Fields, Sentinel field).
Each field skill is associated with a different combo field (scrapper will have access to chaos and dark fields now).
Medic gyro and purge gyro merged into heal gyro (to compete with heal turrent).
New gyro belt (heal gyro, bulwark gyro, shredder gyro, blast gyro, sneak gyro).
While circling scrapper Shredder gyro whirls every 3 seconds, blast gyro blows up every 4 seconds.
Only 3 gyros can be used at a time.
Click gyro once it circles around scrapper, skill then flip over for another skill that allows for automatic mode (similar to current gyro function).

New Scrapper influences:
Unique skill (gyros) similar to Mesmer clones
combat role (front line bruiser) similar to warrior

Conclusion:
This isn’t the definitive guide for making an elite spec, but I think that some elite specs spent more time in development and it shows. I don’t expect these changes to actually happen, but I would like for future elite specs to have a clearer template like the above. Scrapper has many pieces to like but not a cohesive philosophy or differentiation between core engineer. The question I would want you to answer is if you would have rather play current scrapper or the scrapper proposed above. Also, should future specs attempt to redesign classes with philosophies from other classes?

you want to distinguish scrapper from engi and to do that you want to swap gyros with their toolbelts and turn them into passives?

for one thing, passivity is what got turrets nerfed. for another, relabelling a hotkey does not create distinction.

Same old post. They ain’t taking anything back to the drawing board, kids. Adapt and overcome, or re-roll.

Not bad idea OP, but exchanging toolbelt skills for gyro belt is not so good, because many skills are taken because of their toolbelt skill. This would narrow the options for the player and many player would rather play classic engi instead of scrapper.

pretty gross suggestion OP

wouldn’t give up toolbelt for some trash gyros.

The problem with changing the engineer mechanic is that said mechanic isn’t fixed…it depends on the utilities used. And many utilities are balanced together with their toolbelts (see elixir R, where the utility itself is terrible and the toolbelt compensates for it). Some skills even depend on their toolbelt to work (like turrets).

Beside that, unlike any other class, the engineer is balanced over some particular utilities, with a reduced importance on weapons due of those.
So new utilities are meaningless for the most part. They would have to be either ridicuously strong to be used instead of kits (and they would get nerfed to irrilevancy soon after) or do something else that kits cannot do and be strong enough to deserve a place in our slots. Quite difficult, since kits already do a ton of things.
Either way, unless they properly balance the base class to not depend so much on kits, there isn’t much to hope for elite specs.

insanemaniac.2456:

you want to distinguish scrapper from engi and to do that you want to swap gyros with their toolbelts and turn them into passives?

for one thing, passivity is what got turrets nerfed. for another, relabelling a hotkey does not create distinction.

No not turn them into passives. Under the proposed change clicking a gyro once and it does exactly what it does now except it circles around the engineer only(similar to this part of the expansion announcement trailer)https://youtu.be/IOUk2y0K2m8?t=1m42s

Notice how the gyros move in sync with the scrapper? In the above changes they just rotate around the scrapper as well. With a second click it goes into “automatic” mode which operates how gyros currently do(finding enemies/allies on their own). This gives options and flexibility. It also frees up more utility slots for kits. It seems like they had this idea and scraped it(pardon the pun!)

Manuhell.2759:

The problem with changing the engineer mechanic is that said mechanic isn’t fixed…it depends on the utilities used. And many utilities are balanced together with their toolbelts (see elixir R, where the utility itself is terrible and the toolbelt compensates for it). Some skills even depend on their toolbelt to work (like turrets).

Beside that, unlike any other class, the engineer is balanced over some particular utilities, with a reduced importance on weapons due of those.
So new utilities are meaningless for the most part. They would have to be either ridicuously strong to be used instead of kits (and they would get nerfed to irrilevancy soon after) or do something else that kits cannot do and be strong enough to deserve a place in our slots. Quite difficult, since kits already do a ton of things.
Either way, unless they properly balance the base class to not depend so much on kits, there isn’t much to hope for elite specs.

This gets at the heart of this topic. If toolbelt can’t possibly be replaced then the design space for ANY future elite spec is handicapped for engineer only. This is a problem and counter the entire point of elite specs. I don’t know if the developers agree with you, I also don’t see how replacing the toolbelt with a more consistent mechanic is unthinkable. If the mechanic that replaces toolbelts fully complemented the new role(in this case scrapper is a frontline bruiser) then it would be a better fit then a flexible but not specialized toolbelt configurations. In the above case gyros that stick close to the character complement the melee range of the hammer.

King Kai.4516:

insanemaniac.2456:

you want to distinguish scrapper from engi and to do that you want to swap gyros with their toolbelts and turn them into passives?

for one thing, passivity is what got turrets nerfed. for another, relabelling a hotkey does not create distinction.

No not turn them into passives. Under the proposed change clicking a gyro once and it does exactly what it does now except it circles around the engineer only(similar to this part of the expansion announcement trailer)https://youtu.be/IOUk2y0K2m8?t=1m42s

Notice how the gyros move in sync with the scrapper? In the above changes they just rotate around the scrapper as well. With a second click it goes into “automatic” mode which operates how gyros currently do(finding enemies/allies on their own). This gives options and flexibility. It also frees up more utility slots for kits. It seems like they had this idea and scraped it(pardon the pun!)

Good analysis, wrong conclusion.

Kits are ridiculous and class defining, but if new utilities and weapons are designes around their existence, then they can be made to work as they are.

The biggest barrier to meaningful elite specs and class mechanics is the toolbelt. It has ALWAYS been the toolbelt.

The best hope for a good class mechanic at this point is to directly modify kit functionality as part of the elite and/or find a way to do more interesting things with the interact key.

Either those or base the entire class’s uniqueness around the new weapon. But I do not think that this trick will work the same twice.

Well I hoped that scrapper will be something like a traitline for kit-less engineers.
So… Maybe disable kit usage ? Probably kittened idea but I think there should be a place for kit-less and 1 kit only instead weapon(without possibility to swap)

lorddarkflare.9186:

King Kai.4516:

insanemaniac.2456:

you want to distinguish scrapper from engi and to do that you want to swap gyros with their toolbelts and turn them into passives?

for one thing, passivity is what got turrets nerfed. for another, relabelling a hotkey does not create distinction.

No not turn them into passives. Under the proposed change clicking a gyro once and it does exactly what it does now except it circles around the engineer only(similar to this part of the expansion announcement trailer)https://youtu.be/IOUk2y0K2m8?t=1m42s

Notice how the gyros move in sync with the scrapper? In the above changes they just rotate around the scrapper as well. With a second click it goes into “automatic” mode which operates how gyros currently do(finding enemies/allies on their own). This gives options and flexibility. It also frees up more utility slots for kits. It seems like they had this idea and scraped it(pardon the pun!)

Good analysis, wrong conclusion.

Kits are ridiculous and class defining, but if new utilities and weapons are designes around their existence, then they can be made to work as they are.

The biggest barrier to meaningful elite specs and class mechanics is the toolbelt. It has ALWAYS been the toolbelt.

The best hope for a good class mechanic at this point is to directly modify kit functionality as part of the elite and/or find a way to do more interesting things with the interact key.

Either those or base the entire class’s uniqueness around the new weapon. But I do not think that this trick will work the same twice.

I didn’t mean specifically kits for future elite specs, I meant if you wanted you could have as many kits as you want as well as gyros. As it is now they compete with each other for the same slots.