Guild Wars 2

Hi guys im posting a seriously consideracy about engi in wvw.

There are some good builds for wvw roaming but at the moment i dont know if there is a good build for zerg wvw. Many wvw guilds dont want engi ( like thief and ranger ) in their zerg because no useless.

Can we talk about this? I like my engi but for now when i play with wvw zerg i must use warrior for various reasons.

Any suggest?

You can try my build (in sign) I use it few months and its pretty good. If you will use healing turret party support will be even better with all that water fields. Survability is just insane. Damage isnt perfect but you still kill things and collect lots of lootbags:-)

Engineer’s biggest problems in WvW right now are lack of stability (Elixir B is useless for that in zerg) and easy access to group support like shouts. Yes you have fileds ect but you must constantly move noone will sit on place 5s and wait till you place you long field/blast rotation.

I’m going to be a very odd voice here and state that I have made some good experience with the Mortar in WvW zerg warfare. Not in the open field mind you, when attack or defending.

The high firing arc allows to hit the top of walls in some spots, while on the defence you can put it on the roof of the supply building and shoot over the wall. With the reduced CD, it’s not bad.

Now granted, whenever you are moving you want the Grenade Kit for 1500 range warfare, but in siege situations it seems to work very well.

I would assume that in a zerg, a Bomb/Grenade build could do a lot of good. Easy access to long-lasting fire fields for might stacking, three blast finishers (Shield + BOB + Mine), AE immo/cripple, AE blind, AE confusion, AE all the things.
And as soon as you are out of the enemy, switch to grenades and spam the living hell out of them, being able to hit 15 targets at a time and hence working against the benefits of zerg stacking.

Engineer is largely good for defending/attacking a tower(grenades). But yes, its been been known and simply acknowledged that all of engineers useful support skills are only good at small groups in wvw (5-15). yes, engineer has support skills, but once you are in a bigger, less organized group, engineers support skills are simply outdone by other classes. it may be fun to run engineer mortar in a zerg, it may be fun to toss grenades in a zerg, but other classes simply work better in a zerg.

Lets start about talking of a good build for wvw …
I think main problem its survavibility so we must have good armour, about >2800 and good life >20000.
Second … engi must do what he can do better, so he must do condition damage (like necro). we have tons of skill that can do condition so we must use them.
we are not in the zerg for hitting hard but for dot.
So i think these are mainly stat: tough – vitality/cond – power.

I think in the zerg bomb is a must have for 2 thing: good conditions + heal aoe our zerg

what do u think about it?

I’ll agree that in a Zerg engi is a bit lacking BUT so is everyone accept warrior and guardian… and ele. I also had no problem getting into a WvW guild baced on class, any good guild will take you if your good. My warrior is preferred in a Zerg but my engi absolutely dominates small team/roaming. I also run SD build because I feel it’s much beter in that situation. I can still Zerg, just another sheep anyhow so it doesn’t really matter.

If your looking to bring something to the table in a Zerg try running 20/0/30/10/10 with elixir infused bombs and clerics gear. You will still do good Zerg damage and your healing output is about what an ele can do if not better. I run with p/d, HT, Bomb Kit, Elixir B (sometimes elixir gun instead) and thumper turret.

Access to more knock backs than my war (all of them AoE too) great group healing, cleanse, and stability. Plus all the combo fields & blast finishers, I really see no reason not to take engi. If a guild asks you not to bring your engi and play your war instead… They kind of suck, look for a real wvw guild.

I run allot of wvw and I only do zerg combat.
I use the two builds I am going to list bellow. They are both very effective at what they do.

The bunker bomber.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pSX3zSiF87ISoC2noH6Hl5YfeIXPIEC-jkCB4iBkWAhkGkEBITqIasVhFRjVJjIqWdDzcjRr2uDIEATA-w
I use this build when I am commanding and most of the time otherwise.
It uses “Potions of karka toughness for nourishment” and you can swap the omnomberry creams for saffron bread or lemongrass if you want to be even tougher.
I generally open with toss elixir b then run into the enemy with shield 5 followed by big old bomb, bomb 2 and 3 then mash the elite. If I turn into the tornado I start blinding enemy’s while shooting burning bolts from fire field. If I turn into the hulk I use skill five then use skill 3 to get out of the mess where I call for a stack up and switch to nade kit ready for the next push. while all this goes on you can keep up 25 stacks of might simply by swapping to med kit every 10 seconds. A super tanky build with extreme control options.

When I feel like a change up I use I standard zerker nader build.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyX37SiF17IyoHdGntZgKAYfe8WtFEC-jEDBYfAohgEEIk3gUBAJPFRjtMkIasqBVXDT5iIq2ejRr2uDQKAI2VB-w

With this build you hang around the far periphery of combat taking advantage of high ground whenever you can and bombard the centre of the enemy ball with nades. This build has become allot more viable since the decline of retaliation. (because of the ret nerf) If you like suuuper high dps while covering your enemy in massive stacks of bleeds, poison torment and vulnerability this is the build for you. It requires good spatial awareness as you have to make sure to stay away from the lightshow, luckily you have elixir s and rocket boots to hep you do this. this build is allot of fun and I recommend you give it a try. It is a little expensive to put together however. :P

tattoohead.3217:

Access to more knock backs than my war (all of them AoE too) great group healing, cleanse, and stability. Plus all the combo fields & blast finishers, I really see no reason not to take engi. If a guild asks you not to bring your engi and play your war instead… They kind of suck, look for a real wvw guild.

I laughed so hard at this. You are absolutely right.

One internet high five for you.

/highfive

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

Maiden England.3491:

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky bu around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.ilds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes in terms of damage… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

wrong, wrong and wrong the only thing right is that EIB is not worth it. If you look at my bunker bomber you will see that it does allot of damage via burn pulses and confusion while stacking vuln. the fire bomb is the best burn applier in zerg v zerg because if they cleanse it the field just immediately applies another burn. once fully stacked the burn does 1k damage a second and is applied on pulse and this of course is only one facet of the bomb kits damage and control ability. You cant really compare the bomb kit to wells ether since wells are primarily power based and have long cool downs, the opposite of the bomb kit.

I run a full berserker rifle SD build (rocket boots, rifle turret, toolkit for utilities) and I do quite well in zergs. I pretty much act like a thief in that while the commander and the main zerg ball dive headfirst into the enemy zerg I work my way around the edges and pick off the squishy backliners. It’s quite effective. At first you might fail a lot, but after a little practice (and if you run with the same commanders so you know their styles) you get a good feel for it.

Plus, the same build is excellent for solo/small group roaming.

I have to disagree with the OP. On my server, we have some fairly knowledgeable commanders, as well as some engie commanders. With the changes to elixir S and B recently, they love middle of the pile engies. They often split as we approach an enemy zerg, or group, asking for toss elixir S in a coordinated effort. We can throw it out front and mask 5 players from both directions of the maneuver. They also coordinate toss elixir B with the other professions stability, so that we can keep it where we need it on a front line clash.

Personally, I have found a build with either full soldiers or full dire gear to be very valuable with bomb kit, elixir S and elixir B.

In cases such as a door siege with heavy defensive opposition, elixir B, S, R, can be very valuable to support the gate pounders from a distance, while using coated bullets to hit enemies trying to hide behind the merlons and ramparts on the keep wall. I will often do this without any traits in elixirs with a 30/30/0/010 build, with dire gear and 100% condition duration. You may not be doing crazy damage with pistol #1, but with 100% condition duration and high condition damage, you can hit players your teammates cannot. Allowing you to put solid pressure on the defenders and force them back far enough that they cannot attack. Plus you can hit them with pistol #1+coated bullets, from a position in which then cannot get LoS to hit you back.

I have been enjoying my roamy healing bomb build, and I find things to do in a large zerg though I do feel somewhat ineffective in that situation. But I generally stick to 5-10man groups and feel that this is where I make a difference.

If I wanted to be a zergling Id play something else in WvW, or be a portal bot on my Mesmer. I dont, so I dont.

I have run Singer’s bunker bomb build for a couple months and can verify its effectiveness. Although I am contemplating a new build to focus more on blast finishers for might, because while the noble runes are fantastic, they are very selfish. Especially because you can’t take healing turret and be as effective.

Any guild that counts out Engi as being useless in a zerg is stupid, and here’s why.
-combo fields/blast finishers, specifically water, fire, and poisen. No other profession can match us (ele comes close, but lacks the diversity)
-Toss Elixir B, AoE stability on low cooldown, any commander should LOVE this
-CC in spades, this includes conditions like chill, blind, cripple, and immobilize, all of which are AoE and can hit more than the 5 man limit

All of this is at an Engi’s disposal without a 10 second swap cooldown, or switching weapons or utility skills.

I think most people agree that grenade kit is a must have for engineers in WvW, yes you will eat a lot of retal, but there is no auto attack so you should have no excuse.

Singer.8740:

Maiden England.3491:

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky bu around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.ilds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes in terms of damage… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

wrong, wrong and wrong the only thing right is that EIB is not worth it. If you look at my bunker bomber you will see that it does allot of damage via burn pulses and confusion while stacking vuln. the fire bomb is the best burn applier in zerg v zerg because if they cleanse it the field just immediately applies another burn. once fully stacked the burn does 1k damage a second and is applied on pulse and this of course is only one facet of the bomb kits damage and control ability. You cant really compare the bomb kit to wells ether since wells are primarily power based and have long cool downs, the opposite of the bomb kit.

yes, but the burning is literally the only skill that pulses, doesnt last as long as wells, and has a much much smaller radius. plus wells can be put down from range, and are instant. in large scale zerg vs zerg fights wells are simply the better option. you may toy around and see some numbers when you use bomb kit in a zerg, but you still arent being as effective as a necro.

The healing you get from bombs (416 fully geared btw) is by no means negligible. For yourself that combined with backpack regenerator & regain will be some mad sustain. On top of that you still have all those nice water combos for group healing.

Also your able to lay more than one bomb per second (I don’t think it’s quite 2 but it’s close) so let’s say you get 1.8 bombs/sec at 416 (my healing) that’s still 748.8 hp/sec add in backpack regn (around 190 I think) and regain and that’s over 1k hps (greater than healing sig btw)

I was running with a group of about 10 eib engineers (all form my guild) and a few guardians/eles the Zerg was wtf tough. Just a fun story no real merit lol.

the cast time for bombs is closer to .9 seconds than the stated .5 on the tooltip, I think because of an aftercast (side note bombs seem to me to be way faster underwater) AND they have a ~.5 second delay before exploding which makes healing on the move a big problem.
I’m sure someone (maybe myself) will do some serious testing on this once the patch comes out Dec. 10th, but I doubt you can attain 1k/sec healing with only bombs and backpack regen

The great thing about an engi is the sheer diversity that you can have without even changing your traits- there are many different ways to play (full healing build is just fun, you heal so much).

Personally i’m running a 30/20/5/5/10 build, mainly nades and flamethrower with rocket boots (best skill for a engi in wvw , esp against zergs), but have 4 sets of armor for him and will swap builds and traits a lot depending on what we are facing and what I am doing- when I remember on a treb waiting on a zerg to run into my fields I’ll throw on condi gear, etc. I’m not built for 1v1 but I do tend to charge in anyway even when I know I will probably lose.

With the current meta I found a full condi build pretty useless for anything other than tagging a zerg, as they tend to get removed very quickly.

Other tip for wvw zerg fights- unless ur running bomb kit tank /regen build, when u engage the enemy dodge roll left or right (or get ur positioning right as you run in) and immediately rocket boot into their back line, spam bombs or nades , then chase whoever is still standing with flame thrower. You’ll be amazed how effective this is at breaking up their train and wiping out their ele and necro support. By the time your hp is low, rocket boot out again:-).

Engi are very useful to have in most fights- about the only place they aren’t so good is gvg 20vs20 close knit melee train fighting, where it will be harder to pick off the squishy ones, and conditions are washed off so fast they are almost useless.

you wont be dropping bombs constantly, you wont get the effects of all the bombs dropped, its not a reliable heal when you are fighting open field. its very nice for bunkering up an objective, but not in zergs.

tattoohead.3217:

The healing you get from bombs (416 fully geared btw) is by no means negligible.

That seems a little high. What gear are you wearing to achieve this?

Maiden England.3491:

Singer.8740:

Maiden England.3491:

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky bu around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.ilds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes in terms of damage… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

wrong, wrong and wrong the only thing right is that EIB is not worth it. If you look at my bunker bomber you will see that it does allot of damage via burn pulses and confusion while stacking vuln. the fire bomb is the best burn applier in zerg v zerg because if they cleanse it the field just immediately applies another burn. once fully stacked the burn does 1k damage a second and is applied on pulse and this of course is only one facet of the bomb kits damage and control ability. You cant really compare the bomb kit to wells ether since wells are primarily power based and have long cool downs, the opposite of the bomb kit.

yes, but the burning is literally the only skill that pulses, doesnt last as long as wells, and has a much much smaller radius. plus wells can be put down from range, and are instant. in large scale zerg vs zerg fights wells are simply the better option. you may toy around and see some numbers when you use bomb kit in a zerg, but you still arent being as effective as a necro.

see numbers. my screen is lit up with numbers. smoke bomb, glue bomb also pulses benefiting from steel-packed powder. There is only a 7 second interval between fire bomb up times and it apply’s 5 burns every pulse for three pulses. Its super sticky damage that can potentioly burn fifteen people. i described my opener above but after words my rotation generally goes;

concusion bomb > fire bomb > med kit> nade kit> shrapnel grenade >posion grenade >shrapnel grenade >freeze grenade > med kit > bomb kit >repeat. using other skills as depending on the situation.

But your right i wont see the same numbers the zerker necro in the backline will but if you look closely you will notice that my roation heavily weakens the enemy zerg.

aoe 5 stacks confusion : enemys have to watch there attack speed.
aoe poison: reduced healing
aoe chill; reduced ability recharge and movement
aoe vuln; massive stacks on multiple targets (this plus hammer warrior = dead people)

and i can throw smoke bomb, glue bomb and flash grenade into that rotation as well for

aoe blind.
aoe immoblize
aoe cripple.
(these all apply per pulse)

the best bit about the pulsing effect is if they cleanse they just get more and theres no aoe downtime as this all happens in 10 seconds. Now you tell me if this is not as valuable as a zerker necro who has a dps uptime of 6 seconds with 22 second downtime and 5 second uptime with 27 second downtime respectively. (traited)

Oh and i get 25 stacks of might passive just for rotating.

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

Maiden England.3491:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTA1_p5sm6Y

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

i am confused. Thought i mentioned that my build is a control build and that a zerker necro will obviously get higher DPS but thats not what the bomb kit is about. huh…

But your right i wont see the same numbers the zerker necro in the backline will but if you look closely you will notice that my roation heavily weakens the enemy zerg.

aoe 5 stacks confusion : enemys have to watch there attack speed.
aoe poison: reduced healing
aoe chill; reduced ability recharge and movement
aoe vuln; massive stacks on multiple targets (this plus hammer warrior = dead people)

and i can throw smoke bomb, glue bomb and flash grenade into that rotation as well for

aoe blind.
aoe immoblize
aoe cripple.
(these all apply per pulse)

the best bit about the pulsing effect is if they cleanse they just get more and theres no aoe downtime as this all happens in 10 seconds. Now you tell me if this is not as valuable as a zerker necro who has a dps uptime of 6 seconds with 22 second downtime and 5 second uptime with 27 second downtime respectively. (traited)

Oh and i get 25 stacks of might passive just for rotating.

naaaaaw must be imagining it.

EDIT: nice video btw. a nec doing his job really well.

’I really like this one:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZnuSZF1LJxIFde0heYfDrWRFy/nCyF-jACB4iCh0CIEDgEIA5RFRjtsuIas6ZER16jYA-e

Tons of CC, tons of CC, good dots, party stabi, second healing burst at 25%,…

Maiden England.3491:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTA1_p5sm6Y

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

And a warriors example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs
Engineer into a melee train is a poorly exploited slot

Banumiel.1926:

Maiden England.3491:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTA1_p5sm6Y

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

And a warriors example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs
Engineer into a melee train is a poorly exploited slot

well then why dont you go roll one because you obviuosly cant see what an engineer brings to the fight.

Singer.8740:

well then why dont you go roll one because you obviuosly cant see what an engineer brings to the fight.

I’m waiting to see your video and your numbers… Meanwhile, engi is good for duel, roaming and small scale pvp (like 10 vs 10)

Ok since you plainly refuse to read my original post let me make it simple.
does my build look like a DPS build to you or a control bunker build. You can make your mind up and then go roll that warrior. Fact is i use that build to a high degree of success to command and run in zerg v zerg you dont believe me, i dont care. Your new cookie cut warrior is waiting.

Singer.8740:

does my build look like a DPS build to you or a dummy build

Fixed.

the CC engi provides is also outdone by other classes. the whole point why engi is more effective in small groups is because they are very versatile. decent burst, decent CC, decent condi damage, decent support, and so on and so on. whereas when you start to expand the group, you focus more on specific role professions, not versatility.