Guild Wars 2

Hi everybody!

As an engineer and Elementalist player, I’m kinda excited for the Revenant, as it’s seem to be the heavy equivalent.

I realized that at first, the revenant had no weapon swap, but gained it through devellopement. Kinda fair, as engis have kits and Elem have Attunements, while Revenants were stuck with the same 1-5 skills and only two legends.

But now that I think about it, revenants now have always 4 set of skills (2 weapons, 2 legends), same goes for the Elementalist, who can also have conjured weapons.

On the other hand, engineers can have 1 to 6 weapons. So we can have lots of skills, but at the expense of some utility (although we do have the toolbelt).

So I was wondering who people think about this.

On one hand, engineers get more flexibility than the revenant and especially the elementalist, who have the 4 attunement skills set, but on the other hand, engineers “have to” choose kits at the expense of the utility, hindering some potential builds, like turret ones of gadget ones.

Personnally, while this crossed my head, I think it’s fine, as I’m a kit lover. Kits also provide toolbelt skills, so while we take a utility slot, we don’t lose a skill. The best example being the Med kit toolbelt skill.

Just no need really. I mean sure, I wouldnt’ complain about getting a blunderbuss in my condi rotation, or having a shield block on swap and stuff like that. But, just not needed, revenant felt slow and clunky and needed it IMO.

I see no reason to redesign a profession simply because of what another profession can or cannot do.

Elementalists are fine as-is really.

I haven’t been in any betas with a chance to try Rev out, the idea of no weapon swap with legend swap instead sounded good on paper, but after seeing some of the weapon skills I could see how that’d be very limiting. Especially given some weapons like the staff are really problematic to be locked into with some legends.

The problem with engineer getting weapons swap, is we only have 3 weapons anyway. It’s practically a “Why bother?” sort of scenario since every engie would have rifle and pistol all the time. (For all we know, the hammer might even come with a weapon swapping as the ‘additional’ class mechanic, so we’ll worry about the hammer when the spec is announced)

It’s kind of a shame we HAVE to be balanced around kit use since it really kills the viability of no-kit builds. but there’s really no way to fix it at this point.

The only other way I could see the class working is if we had one “kit slot” that we could place a kit of our choice in which would be our second weapon, working with the same weapon swap mechanic essentially, making every engie a 1-kit engie with non-kit utilities. Which would have been fine if the class were designed that way from the ground up but it’s too late for that.

No. I’m fine with 32 skills with the metabuild, tyvm.

The issues revenant had was that his weapon-set was 50% of the time useless, since the 2nd legend never had any synergy with it.

Engineer do not have this problem. Our kits work quite well, regardless which dmg-type we choose, & albeit we have a limited set of weapons to choose from, they do their job quite effectively.
rifle for power-dmg, mobility & soft/hard-cc
p/p for soft-cc & condi-pressure
p/s for soft/hard-cc, blasts & defense

All our kits come with treats for both condi & power builds as well, and most of them bring a mix of utility, survivability & mobility as well. All in all, we can make builds work by just choosing a single kit or most of them, since our toolbelt ensures that our non-kit utilities come with enhanced usefulness as well.

In the last WTS some engi was running just nades as his only kit, and he was able to win it with his team, so no we’re not really forced into filling our bars with nothing but kits & a weapon-swap would have no beneficial effect to this.
Yes, it would make us more powerful, but since most of our stuff is working just fine, that would be a unnecessary buff. If your intend is to ensure us a spot in the meta, I guess it’s enough to wait for bug-fixes to roll out.

I actually don’t see a need for it. Maybe when we get our hammer, so we can carry a melee and a range weapon without the need of kits.

I do not belive we need (or can take good use of) weapon swap. However, I could see us getting a tuned down version of it to support singel-kit / kit-les builds.

By tuned down version, I envision we get the weapon swap key while outside of kits, but instead of swapping the weapon with another, it swaps the Auto Attack. For example, rifle could have the two following modes:

• Snipe, long range, higher crit rate at longer distances, uses aim-down-sight animation.
• HipShot, short range, fires 3 bullets in a narrow cone, uses current hipshot animation.

That way, we would get a more active gameplay in builds that stays mostly outside of kits, while not buffing the multi-kit build that uses all the highest dmg skills when off cooldown. We would also be able to look down the sight of our Predator rifle, while preserving the current animation for people who likes it.

Are.1326:

I do not belive we need (or can take good use of) weapon swap. However, I could see us getting a tuned down version of it to support singel-kit / kit-les builds.

By tuned down version, I envision we get the weapon swap key while outside of kits, but instead of swapping the weapon with another, it swaps the Auto Attack. For example, rifle could have the two following modes:

• Snipe, long range, higher crit rate at longer distances, uses aim-down-sight animation.
• HipShot, short range, fires 3 bullets in a narrow cone, uses current hipshot animation.

That way, we would get a more active gameplay in builds that stays mostly outside of kits, while not buffing the multi-kit build that uses all the highest dmg skills when off cooldown. We would also be able to look down the sight of our Predator rifle, while preserving the current animation for people who likes it.

A better solution for this would be to implement what they did with Revenant Spear.

Engi needs weapon swap the least of any class. It would be of more benefit to ele than engi.

Oh god no. I’m already used to pressing that button when getting off kits.

morrolan.9608:

Engi needs weapon swap the least of any class. It would be of more benefit to ele than engi.

Err, there are only 2 classes who don’t have weapon-swap. Engi & Ele. So saying that we need it “the least” is kinda pointless. And since ele already comes with 20 weapon-skills naturally, it doesn’t need weapon-swap “as well”.

Given how both classes work, it wouldn’t be beneficial to neither, other than being a plain, unnecessary buff.

Yes, lets throw everything that is unique about each class out the window.

On a serious note, engineers do not need a weapon swap. We already got kits which helps us. I can’t wait to use hammer ! And I wonder what its gonna do for the game!

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.

i dont see much of a diference then because engineers have kits but revenants have Legend stances wich effectively equals to 5 utilities per stance , needless to say stance skills are vastly superior than engineer kits as well

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

Necrotize.2974:

Rezzet.3614:

CURRENTLY engineer does not need weaponswap However when FOrge or whatever spec comes out engineer Will need weapon swap because from what i see forge= hammer+6 new floating bots ( of wich you ll be able to equip 3 at a time, 4 if there s a healing one and 6 if somehow theres an elite one) engineer will need weapon swap to have a ranged alternative .

So if you purposefully limit yourself to only new skills by filling up all your utility slots you deserve a weapon swap? That makes no sense. It’s essentially the same as saying Warrior should be able to swap between 3 weapons because if they take GS+Hammer they have no ranged option. Even if all the bots are useful, I seriously doubt it’ll be worth taking one for each Utility/Heal/Elite slot over even just 1 kit.

Taking Forge doesn’t force you to take the floating bots. If Forge got weapon swap, there’d be almost no reason to take the bots anyway because you could make a beastly build using Rifle+Pistol/Shield and the normal 2-3 kits.

not saying purposely limit ourselves but why give us new skills at all if we wont be able to use them successfully to begin with ?
Ranger is successful with greatsword because they already have pets for ccing and a 3000 effective range longbow on their same kit , their invulnerability also allows them to use skills while active unlike engi’s or eles

so forge will just offer Hammer on a ranged class and useless Bots that will mostt likely be destroyable like turrets

so please Elaborate how exactly would engineer be game breaking by being able to have weapon swap

right now even without the new spec if we had weapon swap one of our weapons would be useless damagewise pistol= condi damage rifle= power so at most on a power build you’d use pistol and shield for its shields and on a condi build rifle for the blunderbuss bleeds the immobilize and the overcharge cc break

Because as I said, giving weapon swap would allow builds that have no real intention of running the bots to add yet another weapon to their kitten nal. You’d basically just be trading a trait line for the ability to use Hammer in addition to Rifle plus 2-4 kits. If we look at their reasoning for giving Revenant weapon swap, it is because it was literally impossible for Rev to get both ranged and melee into one build. For engineer and Forge, it won’t be impossible because you can always slot in a kit to fulfill whatever type of combat you’re lacking.

i dont see much of a diference then because engineers have kits but revenants have Legend stances wich effectively equals to 5 utilities per stance , needless to say stance skills are vastly superior than engineer kits as well

Stance skills that can’t be changed like utilities can. There is no taking a stance just for 1-2 skills like you can with kits because that means taking several other skills you’ll likely never use. Any class besides Rev can change their utilities to match the situation, Rev has to change their stances, and if they would need things from 3 different stances they’re out of luck. Whereas with kits, you effectively take up 1 slot and replace it with 6 skills. Comparing kits to stance skills is also apples and oranges because you’re essentially comparing weapon skills to utility skills. A majority of your dps comes from 1-5 skills, regardless of class. Utilities(that don’t replace weapon skills) supplement that. This is incredibly important for Rev in particular because of energy consumption. Utilities use up a good deal of energy which is a shared resource for their weapon skills as well. Cross class comparisons are flimsy at best, so you can only really look a things mechanic wise. If engineers had weapon swap, they’d have the potential to have far more skills than any class. Rev with swap has 10 weapon skills+10 utility/heal/elite for a total of 20, which is par for the course. Engineer with weapon swap could potentially have 10 weapon skills+5 toolbelt skills+25 kit skills for a total of 40. Obviously running 5 kits isn’t the best idea, but many builds run at least 2 and sometimes up to 4. Even with just 1 kit you’d already have the same number of skills as most other classes if you had weapon swap.

Engineer could use a few bug fixes and changes, but weapon swap isn’t one of them. Not to mention we don’t even know what the Forge skills are like. All the bots could be long range attackers, or hammer could have tons of gap closers, etc. But saying Class A should have X because Class B has X too is a sure-fire way to remove diversity.

I honestly wouldn’t mind it but only from Hammer to ranged setup. This is of course depending on what skills the hammer will get.