Guild Wars 2

Heyhey,
After I’ve tried to play some condi engi in pve (wich isn’t really that great tbh :/ but regardless of this) I noticed this good old but imo lackluster trait. So I want to talk about it with you fellow engis:

Shrapnel
Specialization: Explosives
Tier: Grandmaster
Type: Major

Explosions have a chance to cripple and cause bleeding.

Chance on hit: 15%
Bleeding: 12s
Crippled: 2s

I think this trait is extremly underwhelming for dealing condition damage aswell applying cripple on demand. 15% on hit for one single stack of bleeding that lasts 12s is just suboptimal. The cripple passive procs when it wants aswell and not when you want it to.

I suggest to change the proc to a higher rate to have a more consistant results.

• Examples: 33%, 50% or even 100%

To balance this reduce the duration of the bleed to a lower amount, but to overall buff the dps slightly:

• Examples: 8s, 6s, 3s

(bleeding damage on a condi engi is between 120 and 200 per stack per s, (200 when full buffed))

Now we have the cripple that would op if it would be applied at this ratio, especially when there would be many short cripples, since you cannot really cleanse them like this. We don’t want to create a such movment imparing unfair scenario. So putting a simple icd on this skill would already be what we need. I’d say a 4 sec cripple on a ~15 sec cd would be already engouh.

What do you think about this trait? Is it really good? Or just the least bad option to choose. For me – definitly the 2nd one… I think this trait need some love.

greez Ziggy!

Balanced around grenades… like everything else…

But, yes. give it a .5 second ICD, and shorten the bleed to 2 6s bleeds. Much more effective all around. Now it works with EVERY engineer weapon, not just grenades.

Casia.4281:

Balanced around grenades… like everything else…

But, yes. give it a .5 second ICD, and shorten the bleed to 2 6s bleeds. Much more effective all around. Now it works with EVERY engineer weapon, not just grenades.

An internal cooldown would not work well with explotions AoE function.
I say: make it only proc on the primary grenade (the one that goes where you target). Then set the proc chance up. Now it works with SOME engineer weapons, not just grenade barrage.

It’s like 5-8 stacks spamming grenades… not terrible, but the ramp up time is insane. I much rather have a shorter duration but more consistent.

If they could use ICD or anything to balance it out between nades and other explosions I’d be in full support of that as well.

Are.1326:

Casia.4281:

Balanced around grenades… like everything else…

But, yes. give it a .5 second ICD, and shorten the bleed to 2 6s bleeds. Much more effective all around. Now it works with EVERY engineer weapon, not just grenades.

An internal cooldown would not work well with explotions AoE function.
I say: make it only proc on the primary grenade (the one that goes where you target). Then set the proc chance up. Now it works with SOME engineer weapons, not just grenade barrage.

yeah, good point I suppose.

the only real answer I guess is changing how ICD or on hit works. It does need to be aoe, but also must be limited to once per attack.

I wonder if they can just make two traits in one? They merged all those others.

Have sharpshooter work as is, for GRENADES. But have it give 2 or 3 stacks of bleeds for everything else?

(steel packed powder same deal…)
If juggernaut can be FT only, why can’t these traits have special conditions for grenades?

There are some skills ingame that already have a ICD per mob. This would be pretty viable, since the only way to stack this trait at the same time is via fire bomb.

Xyonon.3987:

There are some skills ingame that already have a ICD per mob. This would be pretty viable, since the only way to stack this trait at the same time is via fire bomb.

Got a list of some of these skills?

Noticed it only on my Mesmer:

Mesmer: Illusions: Trait Set 3, Trait 1: Ineptitude
Cause confusion when you blind a foe. Blocking or evading an attack inflicts blind on your opponent.
The same foe cannot be blinded more than once within the interval.
Interval: 10 seconds

So the mechanic is already there

Basically grenades are what kittens this trait constantly over.
Increase the probability? nades become OP, other kits start getting profit from it.
Increase the stack-ammount? Nades become OP, other kits start getting profit from it.

To fix that, the probability on hit needs to be removed, the traits needs to get more stacks out of it, and then receive a internal cd, so nades can’t exploit it with their tripple hits.
Ofc, that means that only 1 target will be affected by it once the ICD is ready, but that can be solved by making it into a AoE-effect.

Ideal change:
Shrapnel:
Applies 5 stacks of bleed for 10 seconds in 240 range to up to 5 targets.
Applies 3 seconds of cripple in 240 range to up to 5 targets.
ICD: 5 seconds
Trigger: Hit target with an “explosives” skill. effects apply around that target.

This should fix the trait, and finally separate it from Nades, which is the only reason why this trait NEEDS to be so lackluster for anything but nades.

I like Arantheal’s idea, but just make it with an intern cd and add:
The same foe cannot proc this effect more than once within the interval.

Seems nice, but i don’t think people are seeing the whole picture.
In doing so we’re also making grenades’ property of being a multi-hit skill even more detrimental. Since they still have an extreme vulnerability to retaliation, while losing advantages they once had.

But even then, let’s just say we change it so that any explosion processes it, while keeping it at the strength it has now when using it with grenades.
It will actually ends up far stronger than the original trait, even if it would end up doing nearly the same durations and number of stacks.
Because of opportunity costs.
Right now, people have to spam that autoattack to process the trait. With the change made above, you just need some explosion every 5 seconds. And you are free to use anything else in the meantime.
Sure, it has to be said that it didn’t get much from its change from adept to grandmaster. Even then, it could end too much powerful by changing it this way.
Especially since it is already easily the better grandmaster trait in that tree, as long as you use grenades; and making it as efficent with other explosives than grenades would just make it just the generally better choice.

Especially if pistol 1 really ends up processing explosive traits in the autoattack. And we end up with what basically would be an even-more-superior sigil of geomancy on shorter cooldown.

Sure, pistol 1 becomes stronger when shrapnel is reworked in the from me suggested manner (and receives the promised upgrade at some point), but keep in mind that ICP & the bleed-procs + bleed duration from firearms is still required for any condi-build that wants to be competitive. That only leaves one slot for either inventions, or alchemy, and both on their own are not that strong.
So yea, If one decides to run such an offensive condi build (explosives + firearms), he pays for it by reduced defense, which balances that change out.

In the end, the traitlines should allow for build-diversity, not shun people into running very specific setups. And by getting rid of the on-hit trigger of Shrapnel, exactly that is achieved for the explosives line.

You guys are just dancing around the obvious fix which is TO JUST NERF GRENADES. That’ll fix Steel-Packed Powder and Sharpshooter too.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You guys are just dancing around the obvious fix which is TO JUST NERF GRENADES. That’ll fix Steel-Packed Powder and Sharpshooter too.

Mhm, and they should nerf War GS because between it and forceful greatsword it synergizes with PS better than other weapons. And nerf Hammer on guard because it synergizes with the symbol traits best.

I really can’t agree with the idea of removing our vuln application as it’s one of our few big strengths in PVE. Want to adjust a trait to make it work better with bombs while not affecting our potential, sure, but destroy that potential, well kitten off.

Uh you can fix values on SPP and Sharpshooter after Grenades are fixed to actually make that possible. In fact that I think that’s lot easier than brainstorming ways to put per-mob ICDs etc. on everything.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Uh you can fix values on SPP and Sharpshooter after Grenades are fixed to actually make that possible. In fact that I think that’s lot easier than brainstorming ways to put per-mob ICDs etc. on everything.

True, but same effect really if nades did just 1 trait activation per toss. Any way they do it works. Though I’d imagine “fixing nades” would require coding work while if they alraedy have a development tool they can tack on the skills it’d just be one of those guys slapping it on a few abilities and making adjustments to values.

Don’t forget that bleeding is useless in comparison to other condis now.

So yeah, it sucks.