Guild Wars 2

The thing I"d be most excited to see be real is moving juggernaut down tier. That opens up so many builds.

SharadSun.3089:

timidobserver.7925:

I hope our changes don’t revolve around turrets yet again. I say screw turrets. Until they revamp how turrets function entirely, they’ll be useless. Spend time adjusting stuff that can actually be salvaged.

. _. you’ve got to be kidding. Turrets are excellent right now, Accelerant Healing+Net builds are crazy,

Excellent for what? Pve?

In no form of PvP have I found turrets to be really useful unless the people you are fighting are not very intelligent. The last two balance patches have been primarily nerfing stuff and buffing turrets. Im tired of that.

Silinsar.6298:

Velron.3729:

lol, a bit over dramatic there. There are a lot of really great buffs in this upcoming patch, and not to just useless stuff. Acidic coating looks promising, Stabilizes Armor change is epic, Shield block not cancelling on hit is awesome, super short CDs on battering ram, stun breaker added to super speed TB for slick shoes is sweet. Plenty more too…the changes to the Firearms line and Flamethrower traits look sexy, etc.

Elixir R was probably the strongest stun breaker in the game. A stun breaker that also 100% refills your endurance AND has condition cleansing AND can self or team mate rez.

Most profession’s ally res utility is a signet, with a kittenty passive and a LONG CD with no other special effects.

You’re right about the buffs, but understand that Elixir R nerf would sure feel a bit odd.
(Assuming the leaked notes apply to the update) With Elixir S, then Elixir R – which were our best defensive utilities – nerfed, choosing a stunbreaker will be really hard:

• Elixir S is situational since it often just delays your death and enables your opponents in PvP to cap/decap a point. Unlike Eles we can’t heal ourselves while being invulnerable. It works, but its downside (basically dazing yourself and not even being able to use instant-casts) is very noticeable.
• Elixir R is no longer a option. The utility skill definately lacks something now. Nothing but endurance refill on 45sec cooldown? Very disappointing, especially when compared to Sigil of Agility. If the TB skill is the problem, they could have adjusted that one via CD increase, “res heal” decrease or duration decrease, for example. Would not make people happy either I guess, but it would be more reasonable in my opinion.
• Rocket boots is no longer a option (though it might be if it stays instant cast and despite not breaking stun can be used while stunned which would be too good to be true)
• Thumper Turret will hardly fit every build playstyle-wise and lacks a defense mechanic besides it’s stunbreak. Also, if placed, you’ll have to destroy the turret to break a stun. Doesn’t sound very tempting to me.
• Utility Goggles also misses a defensive function beside stunbreak and requires a power SD / spike build to fulfill its potential.
• Slick Shoes might be my #1 choice in the future. Although the utiity skill’s CC is a bit unreliable, Super Speed usually gets you out of the danger if there’s no immobilisation.

Not saying that these skills are bad in general, but in my opinion we need a stunbreaker that is defensive and not situational / build dependent and preferable gets you out of danger while being immobilised as well as while being stunned (most other classes have such skills and necro will kind of get one with Well of Power). Elixir S and R used to do this job. Rocket boots with self CC removed would have been my next hope but it is probably gone.

This hit the nail on the head. Sadly a-net doesn’t seem to respect the fact that we’re forced to bring kits into most viable builds which SEVERELY limits our access to stun breaks.

I’m of the opinion that elixir R deserves a nerf in its current form, but it doesn’t need an elixir S style removal from all use ever.

I would be ecstatic to see elixir R maintain the stunbreak and have some other parts of t he ability nerfed. I think the best option would be to move the stunbreak itself to the toolbelt, cut the endurance regen in half and leave the rez utility on the activated ability with a reduced CD to justify it being a rez utility. Elixir R really becomes over the top when you factor in inertial converter to allow having TWO toss R’s.

A lot of the changes seem to be a step in the right direction, but this one just took five steps back. Almost every build I can think of requires bringing R as its only stunbreak and defensive measure in general. A good 75% of viable tourney engineer builds would take a massive hit if this change goes through and I don’t wanna see that with how diverse we’ve been recently. It does need a nerf, but god kitten it we need a stun break!!!

What are you talking about? Elixir R is completely fine in it’s current form. Toss Elixir R is not reliable enough to rez players on it’s own if they’re under pressure. It’s basically used as a helper, and full endurance on a 45 second cooldown with a stun breaker isn’t anything amazing either.

Never fails when I do throw elixir R for someone else, its always to a Mesmer/Theif that always gets out of it. lol

From the PvE side of things, not a lot has changed. Flamethrower builds will gain maybe 5 trait points to spare from the juggernaut change but grenadiers can go on the exact same way they have before.

The scope change is interesting but for certain fights even grenade builds should be up close and personal which still makes this trait useless a lot of the time in PvE.

What I’d like to see is changes to rifle and pistol only builds considering they still haven’t given us a stun breaker in a kit. The new firearms trait(target the weak for rifle or pistol engineers) is very exciting but favors the pistol heavily over the rifle as it has more conditions available and it is much easier to maintain different conditions on targets with the pistol or dual pistols. If we were given a second weapon set to swap between rifle and dual pistols I could see this trait being much more useful. Allowing coated bullets to be taken with only 20 points is another plus. I am absolutely going to experiment with these kinds of builds as soon as the changes are out.

The changes to Elixir R I’m on the fence about. On one hand they’ve made the main skill only useful for trash running by taking away the stun break but for that purpose it still isn’t a bad skill. Slick shoes may become a replacement running skill if need be with the buff to the toolbelt. The rez is much more situational in PvE than in PvP and isn’t too much of a loss for most builds. I like the nerf only so people will try different skills in their builds in PvE, but it should have been left untouched for PvP.

The rest are mostly positive bug fixes and balance changes on certain skills that still aren’t very viable and won’t change people’s opinions about them.

The change to Elixir S was much worse than this one. The only tPvP builds this change effects greatly are the bunker builds that used it as their only stunbreak… but even then, things like Stabilized Armor look enticing to help make up the difference.

As usual, drama queens rule the boards, I don’t think this Elixir R change overshadows the amount of positives that come out of this is those leaked notes are correct, and by no means does it suddenly make Elixir R useless when the rez function was the most important aspect of the elixir to begin with.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

- snip -
Elixir X: I also never use this skill because it just isn’t worth anything. It transforms the engineer into one of two elites that never get any use on the classes they are actually built for. Making it recharge quicker just means it does nothing more often.
-snip-

If you are referring to Plague, I use it a lot on my condition Necromancer.

IMO, it (Plague, that is, not Elixir X) is an underrated skill.

EDIT: Failure to read your post properly. I agree with what you said about the transformations on land, though.

Ostricheggs.3742:

A lot of the changes seem to be a step in the right direction, but this one just took five steps back. Almost every build I can think of requires bringing R as its only stunbreak and defensive measure in general. A good 75% of viable tourney engineer builds would take a massive hit if this change goes through and I don’t wanna see that with how diverse we’ve been recently. It does need a nerf, but god kitten it we need a stun break!!!

I agree. Elixir R needed a different change. Also, the stun break on Rumble—as much as I love my turrets—is a terrible idea.

What frustrates me is when most people evaluate a skill they just assume that you have all of the traits that buff it. I think R is very strong in Alchemy builds, but outside of those it’s fine. Which is as it should be—if I dump 30 points into traits the skill(s) those traits affect should feel very strong.

If these notes are accurate then it’s going to be interesting to say the least. I’m kinda liking moving away from using elixirs and more towards gadgets as well as dusting off the rifle. I’ll have to try using the new sitting duck with rifle mod and modified ammunition all together to see if the damage payoff is worth giving up on the extra range and cooldown reduction. Still given the amount of conditions that end up on your average boss critter/WvW zergathon taking modified ammo might be worth it regardless.

Modified Ammo won’t be Worth of it if not with riffle pure zerk build, and u got somebody else placing condition on ppl, cuse u can’t do that alone.

Sure you can.

If you also take the new Sitting duck, whenever you connect with Net shot, there’s 5 seconds of vulnerability, 8 seconds of immobilize and 5 seconds of cripple for EACH net shot.

If you add in Incendiary Powder to the mix, and continue firing with Hip shot or blunderbuss, you will add on bleeding and 40% uptime burning.

If you Go for the Eyes, add Blind to the mix, etc etc.

TL;DR: just shoot them.

Pretty much. If you take rocket boots, utility goggles and toolkit, throw in a sigil of ice then you should be able to apply vulnerability, immobilize, cripple, bleeding, chill, burning and if you’re lucky confusion. On average you’ll have at least three to four of those up at any one time.

as long as flamethrower doesnt miss miss miss miss miss miss when anything moves 45* away from you

Aristio.2784:

Won’t believe it until the official notes are out. Been here long enough to never believe “leaked notes.”

If true however, I’m disappointed that Elixir Gun’s toolbelt skill isn’t a Stun Breaker. Since Kit Engineers don’t have any.

That might not be entirely true. If Super Speed is a stunbreaker now, perhaps tookit’s KR would count as one too? It might be a round-about way, but it certainly opens up possibilities.

unless ive missed a post somewhere, I am still unconvinced that these leaked notes are entirely legitimate.

why would they nerf TWO of our downed abilities?

why would they give us more access to burning duration?

what does this bug fix that changes our double heal at water’s edge entail and why is it not mentioned for any other class?

what does a Blind have to do with “Acidic Coating”?

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

Leg Mods + Stabilized Armor + Protection Injection = Lulwhat?

and, re: the stun break shuffle – as someone else mentioned already, why does “build diversity” have to come at the cost of “nerfing existing builds” …

and this is just the Engi Hullaballoo.

if these really are patch notes … I have lost any last shred of confidence in Anet, because if these are the patch notes then they clearly indicate that Anet have not ever actually played this game live.

I doubt these are real; they’re probably a joke.

Anymras.5729:

I doubt these are real; they’re probably a joke.

I totally agree.

For example, Anet never uses “CC” in their patch notes as an acronym, there is a typo on the Static Shield note (… “if when” …), and other general grammatical inconsistencies (such as the note about confusion no longer “fir[ing] extra times” instead of “applying damage”) lead me to believe they are fake, or done by an intern who failed communications classes.

Or maybe I just seriously hope badly enough that these notes are fake that I am looking for errors.

Just read through the Guardian changes – they’re all buffs!

If this is a joke, it’s well done.

If it’s true, then ANet scores a 100% fail on class balance.

nakoda.4213:

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

I would disagree with that though, engies who stay in ft for long periods are free kills, if their viability was increased bymoving juggernaut to master it would only help them survive

Shanks R Us.2489:

Hammerguard.9834:

Everything is decent except for the ELIXIR R change. That skill is pretty bad now if it’s true. Full endurance with a 45 second cooldown… that’s it?

There’s also that little part about it resurrecting you.

They need to leave this alone unless they are going to address our downed state, which of course, isn’t touched.

Nothing I like more than having to time my pull to stop one stomp and then get blinded so my aoe bomb misses the second one…

ANet please, with that long of a charge up, the stupid thing should work like the guardian shield bubble skill, and not be subject to blind. Stompers can ALREADY blind the first skill, or obstruct it… more balance from those fighting engies, and not much from those playing them.

timidobserver.7925:

The thing I"d be most excited to see be real is moving juggernaut down tier. That opens up so many builds.

SharadSun.3089:

timidobserver.7925:

I hope our changes don’t revolve around turrets yet again. I say screw turrets. Until they revamp how turrets function entirely, they’ll be useless. Spend time adjusting stuff that can actually be salvaged.

. _. you’ve got to be kidding. Turrets are excellent right now, Accelerant Healing+Net builds are crazy,

Excellent for what? Pve?

In no form of PvP have I found turrets to be really useful unless the people you are fighting are not very intelligent. The last two balance patches have been primarily nerfing stuff and buffing turrets. Im tired of that.

Exactly, nerfing useful things to push us into turret builds is just going to make us mad and most likely, leave the game.

How about a real turret buff, like toughness or HP, and then we could talk about turret builds for all game modes.

Penguin.5197:

nakoda.4213:

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

I would disagree with that though, engies who stay in ft for long periods are free kills, if their viability was increased bymoving juggernaut to master it would only help them survive

I am not a free kill.

200 toughness and 6 stacks of might is exceedingly overpowered for a Master tier trait. They wouldn’t just move it without changing its effects.

It would have too big of an impact in PVP because, for 20 trait points, you net 400 stat points instead of 500 at 30.

nakoda.4213:

Penguin.5197:

nakoda.4213:

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

I would disagree with that though, engies who stay in ft for long periods are free kills, if their viability was increased bymoving juggernaut to master it would only help them survive

I am not a free kill.

200 toughness and 6 stacks of might is exceedingly overpowered for a Master tier trait. They wouldn’t just move it without changing its effects.

I have to agree with Nakoda on this, both this an pistols pierce are highly OP in lower than GM tier level, and if anything, there are a few GM traits that warrant moving to lower levels in exchange for others. Look at the endurance regen in Tools vs. Static Discharge… which of those should be a GM trait? Pretty easy if you are gonna base a build around it, like HGH or Juggy, then it is most likely something you should have to invest deeply for, and be in sync with the trait line.

There always were and always will be fake so called “leaked patchnotes” in online games

Its been a competition for decades to get them as realistic as possible while stating ridiculous things.

As long as those arent verified by Arenanet, Im not holding my breath or getting in some kind of huff ;p

nakoda.4213:

Penguin.5197:

nakoda.4213:

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

I would disagree with that though, engies who stay in ft for long periods are free kills, if their viability was increased bymoving juggernaut to master it would only help them survive

I am not a free kill.

200 toughness and 6 stacks of might is exceedingly overpowered for a Master tier trait. They wouldn’t just move it without changing its effects.

It would have too big of an impact in PVP because, for 20 trait points, you net 400 stat points instead of 500 at 30.

I’ve been searching for one of these elusive people who stay in FT kit that aren’t free kills, they are as apparently as rare as finding a unicorn.

I’m not saying it’s not possible, it’s just I’ve only ever seen the kit used effectively (like most of our kits) in constant swapping. The only reason why Grenade Kit and Bomb Kit don’t require this is because GK lets you stay safely out of range, and Bomb Kit lets to run away and use it at the same time. All other kits, from my experience, require constant and measured swaps to be effective, which is one of the reasons why, though I agree it’s a bit too much for a Master trait, it really wouldn’t be exceedingly overpowered except for the ability to stack those 6 might in tandem ahead of time.

nakoda.4213:

unless ive missed a post somewhere, I am still unconvinced that these leaked notes are entirely legitimate.

why would they nerf TWO of our downed abilities?

why would they give us more access to burning duration?

what does this bug fix that changes our double heal at water’s edge entail and why is it not mentioned for any other class?

what does a Blind have to do with “Acidic Coating”?

Jugg as a Master trait is exceedingly overpowered.

Leg Mods + Stabilized Armor + Protection Injection = Lulwhat?

and, re: the stun break shuffle – as someone else mentioned already, why does “build diversity” have to come at the cost of “nerfing existing builds” …

and this is just the Engi Hullaballoo.

if these really are patch notes … I have lost any last shred of confidence in Anet, because if these are the patch notes then they clearly indicate that Anet have not ever actually played this game live.

You make some excellent points. But who would go through all that trouble, cause that’s a lot of work?

And yeah take a look at the reaction on the other profession forums’ threads. Guardian: “sounds too good to be true.” And if it is true? Well joke’s on us engies…

What trouble? It sounds like a wishlist, written in patchnotes-style

So far, of all those “leaked patchnotes” I have read over the last few decades (yes, decades ;p ) none were ever true.

And one GM of another game put it quite nicely: there are no “in advance” patchnotes written. Patchnotes are about the last part that is put together, after everything else.

Leaked Patchnotes would mean Arenanet already had patch completed – in advance.

Now I ask you: how likely is THAT? ^^ About as likely as those “patchnotes” are true ;D

I’d be surprised if most of this stuff isn’t true. I remember someone saying a while ago these notes could be changes they were testing out in a private server.

Yasi.9065:

Leaked Patchnotes would mean Arenanet already had patch completed – in advance.

That’s not hard to believe at all.

I hope its all wrong and they actually do something of substance like oh I dunno:

1)Fixing ghost form 6-0 skill disabling.
2)Fixing the MASSIVE missing issues with FT.
3)Making turrets of actual real use, that is, a real build line.
4)#1 auto on grenades so the only real competitive build we have doesnt cause carpal tunnel.

Also after reading all of the notes, it would seem really hard for someone to come up with all of this.

The notes do have a certain ANet feel to them and I know we’ve had leaked notes before in GW1 that were reasonably accurate. My guess is that if they are leaked, rather than a work of fiction, then they could be a draft form sent over from ANet HQ to wherever they get localization done and the leak has happened at that end.

Either way it’s filling the time between now and Tuesday.

•Throw Junk: Reduced weakness duration to 1 second.

Whhhatt?!?!?! they are nerfing that …. I love throwing my junk into other peoples faces…if you know what I mean :P

But really that because our downed state is 3000 times better then the rest of the other professions down states comebined /sarcasm

The best part of this is that all of us engi’s can’t tell whether its real or fake since it seems like a normal monthly skill update :P

I sure hope it’s a fake, I don’t realy wanna feel like I wasted G for a shield that now I won’t be able to use while attacking, I mean, #4 is good enough for the blast, but 5? Why make it cancell when other skill are used? And 1 sec reduction on stun? Better of daze but have another second when it come back…

Grackleflint.4956:

Arkham Creed.7358:

Terrahero.9358:

Torment, they have got to be kidding.

Here’s Confusion, do stuff and take damage. Here is Retaliation, hit me and take damage. Here is Torment, so much as move and take damage. Whats next? Dam:nation? Deals extra damage if target stays logged in?

You never played the original Guild Wars did you? That was pretty much all mesmers did; if they weren’t canceling your skills outright they were making it hurt to do pretty much everything. Heck I still shudder at their “kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t” combo.

Wastrel’s Demise: Take damage if you use a skill.
Wastrel’s Worry: Take damage if you don’t use a skill.

Meta cr@p like this shows a lack of creativity.

Except that’s not how Wastrel’s Demise worked. Any GW1 veteran with an ounce of experience would have remembered that they both punished non-usage of skills. This was for synergy with Hexes (sort of the opposite of boons and similar to conditions in this game) that punished direct actions, such as Empathy (punished attacks/attack skills), Backfire (punished spell casting, a totally different action mechanic than in this game), and various other spells. However, what he’s failing to mention is that the hexes had a much longer cast time than Wastrel’s Demise/Worry, and that Demise/Worry would automatically be removed if you successfully activated a skill. This brought counterplay in where players could interrupt the hexes (field awareness made GW1 pvp really shine) or activate skills that were not going to be punished by the preparation hexes ie. using a spell/stance/non attack skill when you had Empathy on or using a stance/attack/other instant skill when you had Backfire on. Mesmers were indeed a devastating force in GW1, but they were much more interesting and took a much greater deal of skill to use correctly.

Shanks R Us.2489:

Hammerguard.9834:

Everything is decent except for the ELIXIR R change. That skill is pretty bad now if it’s true. Full endurance with a 45 second cooldown… that’s it?

There’s also that little part about it resurrecting you.

That’s the tool belt skill, but the main skill only refills endurance which is alright for situations where you don’t need a stun breaker in PvE… but in WvW or PvP its not so hot

Sitting duck fix is good with the B I G expection of not fixing the netshot itself. I cant even remember when i caught someone pro lvl. Its so bugged skill missing all time! Jump shot fix hurraayy for that. Infact decent changes but then i took a look in other classes… We are so far far faaaaaaaaaaaaaar behind in development. No cleanses either! I don’t want to play alchemist! I am engineer!

Yasi.9065:

And one GM of another game put it quite nicely: there are no “in advance” patchnotes written. Patchnotes are about the last part that is put together, after everything else.

Leaked Patchnotes would mean Arenanet already had patch completed – in advance.

Now I ask you: how likely is THAT? ^^ About as likely as those “patchnotes” are true ;D

I don’t trust ‘leaked’ patch notes myself, but it has been said by devs that any fix requiring text changes has an automatic two week turnaround to go through translation—so yes, this whole patch was likely all set in stone quite some time ago.

emikochan.8504:

My body is ready (for nerfs)

Rangers feel your pain. :<

MMMMMMM Rifle+Kit Refinement+Tool Kit+Slick Shoes+Rocket Boots = massive mobility… my body is ready indeed.

Khenzy.9348:

MMMMMMM Rifle+Kit Refinement+Tool Kit+Slick Shoes+Rocket Boots = massive mobility… my body is ready indeed.

Yet another reason why this patch would be a massive buff to us and further evidence that the notes aren’t entirely accurate, but I sure hope so.

It would be just mobility and nothing else, though. You wouldn’t even be able to actually use the toolkit, due to the KR. Nice gimmick, but i can’t see a real, practical use for a similar build.

Spart.6578:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Stabilized Armor when combined with Protection Fueled Injection is going to make it so I don’t need stunbreakers anymore

I thought a bit more about this, and with food, protection inject and SA would grant 73% damage reduction while stunned.

This was my thinking too. I have a tanky/support build that never had a stun breaker, but this change to stabilized armor could be very helpful as far as increasing it’s durability goes. I was thinking of combining it with automated response as well, so not only would I have extreme direct damage mitigation, but I would be immune to all incoming conditions as well.

The protection is a boon that can be stripped and whatnot, but you should be able to get it back up fairly easily via trait or utility.

This does, of course, assume you’re constantly knocked down or stunned. Otherwise none of this will do anything. Even still, you will eventually die if you have enough people wailing on you, but yeah.

aydenunited.5729:

Khenzy.9348:

MMMMMMM Rifle+Kit Refinement+Tool Kit+Slick Shoes+Rocket Boots = massive mobility… my body is ready indeed.

Yet another reason why this patch would be a massive buff to us and further evidence that the notes aren’t entirely accurate, but I sure hope so.

I wonder if the rocket boots will still cure movement impairing conditions like it does already though.

Even so, I’d really consider taking slick shoes if these will be the actual changes. I was already considering making a build with it, but the super speed stun break would be very handy combined with the toolkit, especially since the CD on super speed can be lowered through the tools line (not sure it’s affected by the gadget CD reduction, don’t think it is).

I wonder if the super speed granted by the tookit KR would also break stuns… If it did, that would make toolkit so insanely good… well, if you took KR.

Manuhell.2759:

It would be just mobility and nothing else, though. You wouldn’t even be able to actually use the toolkit, due to the KR. Nice gimmick, but i can’t see a real, practical use for a similar build.

We would become arguably the most mobile profession in the entire game… I see practical use for that. Bare in mind this works into several existing builds, it’s not like we’d just be running around doing nothing, this wouldn’t require a gimmick build, it already nestles pretty nicely into our SD build (maybe without Slick Shoes for Personal Battering Ram on it’s new insanely low CD).

Aristio.2784:

Won’t believe it until the official notes are out. Been here long enough to never believe “leaked notes.”

If true however, I’m disappointed that Elixir Gun’s toolbelt skill isn’t a Stun Breaker. Since Kit Engineers don’t have any.

I agree completely, some kit needs to have a Stun Breaker.

Okay they pretty much are official now :O

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/sky-pirates-tyria-traits-preview-part-two

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/sky-pirates-tyria-content-coverage

Well I’m mostly happy with it, just makes my build better

Wait so they are up on a fan site that says “As a note these are unofficial patch notes, just simply a preview!” so that makes them official?

Nothing, basically. I would take them with a grain of salt.

Eviator.9746:

Wait so they are up on a fan site that says “As a note these are unofficial patch notes, just simply a preview!” so that makes them official?

Press got to try the new content and has started to release their information today. Though all I have seen them cover are trait changes so far and nothing yet about skill changes.