Guild Wars 2

Super Elixer now only heals for 150/s with 700 healing power.
Was healing for 400+ pre-patch.
Sigh let me go read how they nerfed the thief class….

I was wondering how much of a nerf that was. I saw it in the patch notes, but hadn’t been paying close enough attention to the ticks of Super Elixir before to test it myself.

This is just a sad day for the Engineer all around. Two decent kits nerfed.

-Travail.

We don’t deal enough damage and we don’t heal enough. But still not enough to make me quit my engineer. I guess I just have to accept that I’m playing a mediocre class.

Wow really? Nerfed the only 2 things engies had in high lvl fractals.

RIP engi, you are a liability now.

It was bugged and was healing for the impact heal amount instead of the pulse amount during the last patch. They decided to wait till this patch to fix it.

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

eh the only change in warriors is that skills now actually have combo finishers assuming you figure how the hell to start a combo without combo fields lol.

Wow, even super elixir was nerfed this bad? Why does arena net insist on physically abusing one of the least played classes to such a ridiculous degree?

Ulfnar.8317:

Wow, even super elixir was nerfed this bad? Why does arena net insist on physically abusing one of the least played classes to such a ridiculous degree?

Druids in WoW had the same problem for years as well. AN does not seem to understand what they want Engineer to be so they just kind of give it a huge mesh of things and nerf anything that pops it’s head above the pack.
What they need to do is sit down and work out a few hard specs for the class and make sure those are all in line with say a normal warrior spec, then play around from there.

http://i.imgur.com/zT51l.png

Look at all them signets. Face it, Engineers will never be good. Play them for enjoyment but roll another class for your main.

NickDollahZ.5348:

It was bugged and was healing for the impact heal amount instead of the pulse amount during the last patch. They decided to wait till this patch to fix it.

The new numbers are unacceptable. Even double-stacking it is pretty weak. What they did was make it on par with bomb healing, which is terrible.

I’m testing it out right now, and it is failing to out-healing a single enemy (a ram) my own level in the open world. Rams attack pretty slowly. How, exactly, is that going to help when my group is fighting a boss, or when I’m trying to help mitigate damage in PvP?

-Travail.

Now my full set of exotics is absolutely completely USELESS.
Not only was my class nerfed but all the gear with healing power that I spent my time obtaining is no longer any use to anyone unless I run around the level 40 zones healing lowbies.
How can they even call the engi versatile?
We have a bunch of situational skills that are only barely helpful in PvP\WvW.
I cried during my fractals run a few minutes ago; couldn’t save anyone’s life; just ended up getting melee’d by bosses during my futile attempts of mitigating 5k hits with my 150 heal/s x2.
I’m going to play around with this broken class for a day or two more before throwing in the ashes of the towel that I burned out of frustration.
[Is there any way to get a refund of $60 and amount of time invested in healing\tough\power gear?]

datbabykilla.4307:

http://i.imgur.com/zT51l.png

Look at all them signets. Face it, Engineers will never be good. Play them for enjoyment but roll another class for your main.

Wow, this pic alone made me lose faith in the balance team more than anything else they could have done to any class. Sorry, I’m a bit predjudiced against 5 sig warriors as most of the ones I’ve ran dungeons with were awful. :O

WTF IS THIS PATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Game over man. At least the carpal tunnel will improve now, since on my warrior I can ROLL MY FACE ON MY KEYBOARD AND PERFORM JUST AS GOOD AS AN ENGI PLAYING PERFECT.

Netheren.3261:

Game over man. At least the carpal tunnel will improve now, since on my warrior I can ROLL MY FACE ON MY KEYBOARD AND PERFORM JUST AS GOOD AS AN ENGI PLAYING PERFECT.

It’s not that bad, you can just turn on auto attack and leave the room with a Warrior to play on par with the highest skilled Eng.

Wow just killed my Build thanks Anet, another class for the trash heap…

Is there a skill that anet didnt nerf? They plan to remove engineer off this game?

grenades:
– played this build since first beta. in Wvw yeh if u spec to berserker u do around 1,4-5k nades and die off in second when zergs/defenders do their autos all together.

- Went for soldier stats and got some retaliation and might and nades hittin crit 900. I was thinkin its ok when add sigils here. I dont go down that easy but far from guardian lol… so now my nades will crit all that 600 or less? BEWARE OF ME!!!

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

lol ur pistol pistol dmg is meager to others haha!

Einherjar.6709:

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

You don’t make other builds viable by nerfing the only build that was even close to being on par with the top tier classes. You buff/fix the other builds. All AN did was tell us we are not allowed to play with the big boys.

Flamethrower is still too buggy to use, condition builds are still worthless in PvE, Bomb Kit is unusable for boss fights, etc. So if you enjoy being lower then Ranger Tier now I guess more power too you?

LordNat.4963:

Ulfnar.8317:

Wow, even super elixir was nerfed this bad? Why does arena net insist on physically abusing one of the least played classes to such a ridiculous degree?

Druids in WoW had the same problem for years as well. AN does not seem to understand what they want Engineer to be so they just kind of give it a huge mesh of things and nerf anything that pops it’s head above the pack.
What they need to do is sit down and work out a few hard specs for the class and make sure those are all in line with say a normal warrior spec, then play around from there.

I agree. It doesn’t feel like they have their priorities in order with this class. I mean, they nerfed grenades, nerfed the Elixir Gun, and changed some underwater skills. Who asked for that? Why would those be the first places they turned to when looking at this class?

I mean come on, Anet. Look at turrets, the flamethrower, our broken traits that aren’t working properly. Don’t rob us of the few usable specs we had.

You nerfed the things everyone uses, when you should have been buffing the things no one uses. The end result would still have been more diverse specs; but without any loss loss to the functionality of the class.

-Travail.

Einherjar.6709:

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

When did pistol/pistol become viable?
Or any of our bugged stuff get fixed to make other builds work better?
You dont make something that is weaker than any other prof in a tank spec, and nerf the better stuff to be on par with it, so that you create diversity.

No instead you kill the class because Engis were already starting to get booted from high lvl fractals.

Now that only the very c asual overland farming not pro player will be playing engies, bet your butt the kicking will only grow more rampant.

Heh wonder if Ill kick engies on my warrior. Hey, another warrior right?

Einherjar.6709:

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

Oh sure, they aren’t MAJOR buffs, but they are buffs.

The point is – every single patch warriors get buffs and positive bug fixes, and have never had a major nerf the whole the time game has been out, despite being arguably the best overall class in the game and almost certainly the most played class.

Meanwhile engineer, who is (afaik) the least played class in the game and arguably the most underpowered class gets major nerfs to go along with any minor buff they might get.

You’re absolutely right grenades were better then every other weapon option for engineer. I said the same thing myself, pre-nerf the only dps option was grenades, everything else did significantly less damage.

But what they needed to do is BUFF other weapons not nerf grenades. P/P sucked before, now grenades are nerfed and P/P STILL SUCKS – so why are you happy grenades are nerfed?

Einherjar.6709:

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

They didn’t do anything about the viability of pistols. No matter how far into the dirt they nerf one spec, it won’t make another spec better. That’s a logical fallacy.

-Travail.

Nades took a major blow
Healing now sucks.
Mortar is a joke, gets destroyed in 5 sec.

I guess engineer is no longer a good wvw defending class.

Seod.7924:

Nades took a major blow
Healing now sucks.
Mortar is a joke, gets destroyed in 5 sec.

I guess engineer is no longer a good wvw defending class.

(complete bs quotes)
“hey guys, we need engies to start using stuff other than nades.”
“huh, hold on, busy on my signet warrior soloing Lupi.. ok you were saying? Oh yeah, uh, why man I dont even remember the last time I saw an engi.”
“Yeah, what are engies?”
“Guys guys, listen, engies are saying they dont want to be forced into nades. Sheesh, hold on, prtaling raid into a tower, k, where were we. Oh yeah, so what can we do?”
“Uh well we could like, fix their broken traits, pretty much like every kit/traitline has some major thing wrong with it.”
“hmm that sounds like a lot of work.”
“yeah I know right, hold on, setting up this one hit kill… ok done w00t 2 badges, and back to stealth weeee”
“what if we just nerf those nades? arent those the things that make red circles when we are auto attacking doors in wvw?”
“brilliant, easy too. make it so”

So just did some testing.

Grenades: With the nerf, three grenades doesn’t even equal 1 bomb anymore. The explosive radii of the 3 grenades still isn’t as wide as my thief’s sword. They did some work on the damage ticks of the cond damage I see but as far as burst damage is concerned we might as well be poking things with a stick. 3 grenades still does not equal a single bomb attack. Doesn’t that bother your math, because it bothers the hell out of mine? I am still throwing out 30 grenades to kill things in level 80 areas, there’s still a miss problem because they are still no tab targeting so that 30 can sometimes turn into 39 grenades before killing the enemy.

FT/EG/Torch: is STILL missing about 40% of the time altho they have widened the area in which this occurs in. Until they completely remove this miss problem this won’t be viable. The napalm does significant damage when it lands but it still does not explode on impact, something that is absolutely necessary to make this kit viable.

EG heal zone: Is still not a water zone, something we absolutely need as engis in the support role as we have way too many cond removal tools. And now that’s nerfed so no more dungeons as they say, no one can survive off of ticks to 150 hit points when bosses can one shot you. sorry….just the facts.

Speed of Attacks: for pistols/grenade flight times/bomb timers is still entirely too slow. You have to understand that when you slow attacks like these especially when they are up close you are harming the class not helping it. Just set the delay at the same percentage that the drop percentage for rares is set at that should be good.

Toolkit damage: was not increased at all. It barely does enough damage as any other class with a one hander. It might be considered a support class but if you don’t learn from the mistakes of other gaming companies who made classes like this then you are only harming yourself. Support classes need to solo just as easily as the rest of the classes and engineers are no different. Setting this kit up to only have two burst damage attacks one of which barely can keep up or kill anything in 12 hits rather then the 3 we see in other classes isn’t the best thing to do imo.

So even tho we did get sigils working, all in all, this class has suffered again had the focus be underwater again, and almost nothing was done to make this class playable on land. I guess you really don’t listen to your fanbase after all. I cannot imagine how a set of people who are supposed to be unbiased can pick on a class like this and think it’s okay. I also can’t imagine how you can’t seem to separate the damage ratios of pvp and pve. Making them the same really doesn’t solve the problem it makes it worse. I know what’s coming and I hope it’s not too damaging but I do hope it opens your eyes to what you have started.

Einherjar.6709:

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

They weren’t viable before, and nerfing grenades doesn’t make them viable now. It just means that grenades suck as bad as everything else. (For the record, I hated feeling forced to use grenades too, but other kits needed BUFFS, with a lesser nerf for grenades)

I dont understand logic : Engineers to do somet other than nades (dps par other proffs) —> nerf nades so they suck as much as all rest. = forum engineers happy that they not forced to use nades anymore.

ikiturso.4026:

I dont understand logic : Engineers to do somet other than nades (dps par other proffs) —> nerf nades so they suck as much as all rest. = forum engineers happy that they not forced to use nades anymore.

I think it was a kind of “fix it later” pass on the class for balance. They worried that Sigils + 3 hits = overpowered but did not have the data to really know or not. So they went ahead with a nerf just to be safe and will likely do another pass next month in their non-holiday patch.

That said this is an awful way to do class balance and it has left the class unplayable in just about any content.

Nade raw power on defensive buid now 200. Time to open rage quit thread?

ikiturso.4026:

I dont understand logic : Engineers to do somet other than nades (dps par other proffs) —> nerf nades so they suck as much as all rest. = forum engineers happy that they not forced to use nades anymore.

Yeah cause us happy engies were the ones using grenades because we enjoyed it… but ALSO because EVERYTHING else has bugs along with being subpar.

I dont think I made a post on these forums till today and this engineer wrecking they did. I thought for sure they couldnt top the nov patch, but wow they knocked it out the park. Heres your sigils, we just gotta take your viable build now sorry. Have fun in the sub 10 fractal range where people who dont know better will carry you.

It does seem weird to me that Anet has stated:
That because of our kits we lost a secondary weapon.
That because of it being too overpowered we LOSE stats when switching to kits (sucks if you have a def+ weapon).
That because of our no CD on kits we have to suffer lower MH weapon damage.
That because of our Grenades (possibly other kits) somehow having a higher chance to proc sigils we have to suffer lower grenade damage.

So what do thieves have to suffer for being able to GO FREAKING INVISIBLE????

Travail.7390:

Einherjar.6709:

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

They didn’t do anything about the viability of pistols. No matter how far into the dirt they nerf one spec, it won’t make another spec better. That’s a logical fallacy.

-Travail.

In a heavy condition build pistols are viable. 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning is viable unless you’re grouping with other heavy condition build players (which honestly, I think everyone’s damaging conditions should be separate to be fair, but that is another issue entirely).

Your fallacy is presuming they’re not viable. And also, if you were using full exotic berserker’s gear and grenade spamming, there is absolutely no way you couldn’t agree that grenades were doing more than they should have been.

They don’t hate them, they don’t play them…

Einherjar.6709:

Your fallacy is presuming they’re not viable. And also, if you were using full exotic berserker’s gear and grenade spamming, there is absolutely no way you couldn’t agree that grenades were doing more than they should have been.

No because its only good damage if the target is standing still and in full beserker gear you are also an extremely easy target so having a high damage, slow moving, manual targeting attack seems perfectly reasonable.

Einherjar.6709:

In a heavy condition build pistols are viable. 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning is viable unless you’re grouping with other heavy condition build players (which honestly, I think everyone’s damaging conditions should be separate to be fair, but that is another issue entirely).

Well, except that pistols scale with power much better than they do with condition damage. You’d only start upping the condition damage secondary to power, or because you do not expect to be using pistols very often.

Einherjar.6709:

Your fallacy is presuming they’re not viable.

I think the “fallacy” is more Layne’s Law. Define “viable.” If “viable” means, “They are not completely absurd to play and can make it through basic content,” then yes–viable. If you mean, " The skill ceiling … is exceptional" and “is the king of versatility” then no.

I think ANet shouldn’t have added that writeup. It’s pretty demoralizing to be told that you spent a lot of class that’s weaker by design. Especially given how dubious the stated benefit is.

Einherjar.6709:

In a heavy condition build pistols are viable. 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning is viable unless you’re grouping with other heavy condition build players (which honestly, I think everyone’s damaging conditions should be separate to be fair, but that is another issue entirely).

I would love to see the math on how you’re sustaining 20 – 25 bleeds as a P/P engineer.

KirinDave.6451:

Einherjar.6709:

In a heavy condition build pistols are viable. 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning is viable unless you’re grouping with other heavy condition build players (which honestly, I think everyone’s damaging conditions should be separate to be fair, but that is another issue entirely).

Well, except that pistols scale with power much better than they do with condition damage. You’d only start upping the condition damage secondary to power, or because you do not expect to be using pistols very often.

Einherjar.6709:

Your fallacy is presuming they’re not viable.

I think the “fallacy” is more Layne’s Law. Define “viable.” If “viable” means, “They are not completely absurd to play and can make it through basic content,” then yes–viable. If you mean, " The skill ceiling … is exceptional" and “is the king of versatility” then no.

I think ANet shouldn’t have added that writeup. It’s pretty demoralizing to be told that you spent a lot of class that’s weaker by design. Especially given how dubious the stated benefit is.

Haha I agree that is terrible wording on Anet’s part. I’m betting they will change it.

“We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional [and as such is the most overpowered profession, and we’re fine with it].” — Fixed.

Enough silliness. If you increase condition duration along with condition damage (you can get +110% duration if I’m not mistaken) pistol scales better than with power/crit/crit damage. Not to mention, you can stack your conditions and still kitswap, and still have that damage ticking away.

The only problem with this is having other condition heavy players. I wish Anet would change it so that vulnerability and all other ‘debuffs’ stay like they are, but have each player be able to have his or her own stacks of bleeding/poison/burning conditions up.

Einherjar.6709:

Travail.7390:

Einherjar.6709:

BurnedToast.3781:

Hey it’s ok, the buffed warriors again, so you know what class to reroll as.

Warrior buffs? You mean like Whirling Strike, Tsunami Slash, and Harpoon Pull becoming finishers? All underwater abilities … Or did you mean the 4 bug fixes warriors got like Fast Hands working for the first time ever like it was supposed to.

Hammer Shock not immobilizing you is the only real buff they got. Furious Reaction has become situationally good too now, but it was unusable before.

I’m glad they nerfed grenade damage, because it was way out of line — simply put. Now I can play my engineer without feeling like I’m doing less than I should be doing using grenade spam — which I cannot stand. Other builds like pistol/pistol condi becoming viable isn’t a bad thing you know.

They didn’t do anything about the viability of pistols. No matter how far into the dirt they nerf one spec, it won’t make another spec better. That’s a logical fallacy.

-Travail.

In a heavy condition build pistols are viable. 20-25 stacks of bleeds all ticking for 120 damage each second, in addition to poison and burning is viable unless you’re grouping with other heavy condition build players (which honestly, I think everyone’s damaging conditions should be separate to be fair, but that is another issue entirely).

Your fallacy is presuming they’re not viable. And also, if you were using full exotic berserker’s gear and grenade spamming, there is absolutely no way you couldn’t agree that grenades were doing more than they should have been.

You said, “become viable,” as if changes to the grenade kit would somehow affect the viability of pistols. “Viability” is not only relative to other specs within your class; it is a measure of how your spec stacks up against every other spec in the game.

If you thought they were viable already, then you shouldn’t care what happens to the grenade kit, because your chosen spec is viable regardless. Likewise, if your chosen spec isn’t viable, then it also does not matter what happens to the grenade kit, because nerfing grenades doesn’t make your spec better or worse. Only if the grenade spec happened to be the very best dps spec in the game would nerfing it make pistols “more viable.” Grenades were definitely not the best dps spec in the game.

So, stating that changes to the grenade spec made pistols viable is a logical fallacy.

Let me ask you, what do you do when there ARE other condition heavy builds in your group? Tell the other guys to switch their specs?

-Travail.

Oh, they nerfed super elixir. There goes my only reason to kit Elixir gun.

I don’t think they hate engineers. There are some absolutely ridiculous sigil + rune combos for engineers atm. I’ll just leave it at that.

They don’t hate Engineers. They’re just clueless. I’m not sure what’s worse.

it`s like druids in S4 just that engineer NEVER WAS ANY GOOD to begin with.

We nerf em!

THROUGH THE GROUND!

I feel bad for you guys, i loved my mad little grenade throwing engineer just as much as my necro almost. Sad both class’s are not loved as much as others are.

It’s pretty clear that they HATE us, we have nothing to play with now.

Why can’t they turn their attention to the warrior and thief builds that pretty much drop people in a few hits. I dont get why people think that’s OK.

RaynStargaze.6510:

it`s like druids in S4 just that engineer NEVER WAS ANY GOOD to begin with.

We nerf em!

THROUGH THE GROUND!

I’m sorry but your WoW analogy is just bad. It was fairly often cited that more druids and warlocks got S3 shoulders than all the other classes combined (including the stupid Holy Pally/ MS Warrior makeups). So yeah, they got a little bit of a nerf for S4 — they still did really well if they weren’t the suck druids who rolled during S3 because it was the FotM.

And grenade autoattack needed a nerf, at least in PvE and WvW, it was super powerful in sieges (defending and attacking), and always overpowered in boss fights and on trash in dungeons. If you didn’t think so you were ‘doing it wrong.’

Devs, you said elementalist is the king of versatility, that’s why you’re giving them an option to deal really high damage. On the other hand you’re telling that engineer is paying for versatility with his low-to-medium damage and now also crappy healing. It’s just what the…

If my super elixir is not gonna heal for 660 anymore, then give it nice scaling on healing power, so my 1281 healing power will make it heal for at least 600

I’m not using damage gear in dungeons anymore, as scaling is poor on everything and even sigils procing on weapons are not gonna change it. So make healing gear worth anything