Guild Wars 2

I started an Engineer just for the kitten flamethrower, and now it’s not viable?

hasn’t been for a while too my knowledge..

It has some nice situational skills (fire field, aoe blind, knockback); its nice to have in certain situations, but I would not run with as “main” weapon.

engi is for fun, don’t worry about things like viability.

emikochan.8504:

engi is for fun, don’t worry about things like viability.

Exactly.

Engineers are alot like the “Entertainers” in SWG, other, more completed classes enjoy watching the cool-looking things they can do when NOT killing or running dungeons with ease.

I understand they don’t want bugs in the game but an increase in the FT2 dmg seems totally fine. Did a single threat pop up about FT engis being op now due to this bug?

If they bind this to the juggernaut trait, and increase the burst damageon all ranges to… lets start with 1,5x ( 2 was nice though) the damage is has right now it would fit just fine imo.

@OP

Flamer is perfectly okay for PvE and WvW if you’re not too worried about what’s cookie cutter. It’s one of the easiest playstyles for farming and it never gets old to see people panic in WvW when they get fwooshed :P

The only question is if you want to focus on using the Flamer exclusively or as an assistive kit.

Trying out a P/P-condition-build without HGH/boonstacking cause of the possible “boon hate” nerf. My utility skills are all selected around CCing peeps to keep me alive so my conditions can do their work.
The FT is absolutly nice for it. The air blast and smoke vent (i love it, that i can use it when iam knockbacked/downed/during stomping) are even slightly op in my opinion cause of its short cooldown, it brings also condition damage with Incendiary Ammo and Napalm Combo Field.Further a detonating Flame Blast can do decent damage if its critting.
Sure the overall damage sucks. But i see it as a situational utility and for that i love my FT.

You can still use it to shoot through doors in wvw.

Other than that? No. The rifle is better in every way.

The Flamethrower is no longer viable in end game “Mist” PvP.

That’s is to say, Condition builds can use it mildly although there are arguable, much more efficient options. Short from taking advantage of Hot Join Suprise, it is no longer capable of applying the pressure it needed to stay near the same level as the other professions in meta.

I was thinking of giving the flamethrower a try in massive zerg v zerg just for kicks and giggles.

Faction.4013:

emikochan.8504:

engi is for fun, don’t worry about things like viability.

Exactly.

Engineers are alot like the “Entertainers” in SWG, other, more completed classes enjoy watching the cool-looking things they can do when NOT killing or running dungeons with ease.

Agreed! I love my engineer for personal flair and being the class I most wish to play.

Unfortunately, I have to play other classes to be useful in dungeons and WvW in a manner I like. Engineer is still my main in spirit I suppose.

On subject: Flamethrower is still in a much better state than it used to be. It was buffed last month, and the only change they made with this patch was to remove the second damage burst from FT#2, the ‘double pop.’

While it’s not a contender for ‘best dps’, it’s still quite ‘viable’.

Depends on what area of the game you’re talking about.

In sPvP, that is still very much up in the air. But it works great in PvE.

In WvW, it’s probably one of the best badge vacuums we have. I just wouldn’t use it for solo/small group roaming. Swap it out for the Tool Kit when you are.

Lyndis.2584:

I started an Engineer just for the kitten flamethrower, and now it’s not viable?

People complain on forums all the time.
The patch didn’t really change anything for SPvP engineers.
WvW and PvE is a bit worse since the end aoe on the flamethrower 2 (the skill that got altered) can be more easily timed and so actually be somewhat consistently useful.

If you looked into it you could see as much, it really wasn’t a complicated change.

garethh.3518:

Lyndis.2584:

I started an Engineer just for the kitten flamethrower, and now it’s not viable?

People complain on forums all the time.
The patch didn’t really change anything for SPvP engineers.
WvW and PvE is a bit worse since the end aoe on the flamethrower 2 (the skill that got altered) can be more easily timed and so actually be somewhat consistently useful.

If you looked into it you could see as much, it really wasn’t a complicated change.

It did change alot :| it set us back!! Lots of Engineers were starting to use FT and build around them because of the awesomeness of the double pop!

100nades, our strongest burst build was deleted from the game.

and without KR we lost a condition remover!! which is kinda a huge hit on sPvP, specially when fighting condi builds, or need to rid of that immobilize!

Engineers took a decent hit on sPvP tbh

and FT 2 is not really worth the efffort anymore.. but sadly, its one of our hardest hitting skill now.. as sad as that might me

I think you guys just need to accept that not every build is going to be viable in every area of the game. I use the Flamethrower more than anything in PvE, but in sPvP there are just better options. There always have been. This patch changed nothing.

This is something all classes deal with.

It was an obvious bug that was being exploited. While i agree you coulda gave it that double pop and its viability (if nothing else for 2-3) woulda gone up…but it wasnt supposed to do that.

I"m sure they’ll come back to it and give it some love again in the future, but people were complaining for turret love for a long time. so that had to come this patch.

I used the Flamethrower to some nice effect, (Pre-Patch) When dueling skilled players it was never concidered “overpowered”. Each skill has to be used in its proper place, and broadcasts very visual tells to opponents making a very practice based kit. (Opinion) Applying Pressure is something that non-grenade Engineers have trouble achieving. The “Double Pop” on Flame Blast was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower Kit applicable in meta PvP, And encouraged staying in this kit for longer while also allowed for some much needed synergy with the Juggernaut trait in non-condition builds.

I just pray Anet brings the “Double Pop” back.

Zinwrath.2049:

It was an obvious bug that was being exploited. While i agree you coulda gave it that double pop and its viability (if nothing else for 2-3) woulda gone up…but it wasnt supposed to do that.

I"m sure they’ll come back to it and give it some love again in the future, but people were complaining for turret love for a long time. so that had to come this patch.

did it really ? i’ve been eating away turret engineers since patch, flame blast is enough to take turrets out, and magnet to pull them out their range, and they don’t have condi removal, run breakers or sneaky tricks :|! it’s like a free meal for an engi, imagine what they are for ele, mesmer or thief!

Wolf.5816:

I used the Flamethrower to some nice effect, (Pre-Patch) When dueling skilled players it was never concidered “overpowered”. Each skill has to be used in its proper place, and broadcasts very visual tells to opponents making a very practice based kit. (Opinion) Applying Pressure is something that non-grenade Engineers have trouble achieving. The “Double Pop” on Flame Blast was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower Kit applicable in meta PvP, And encouraged staying in this kit for longer while also allowed for some much needed synergy with the Juggernaut trait in non-condition builds.

I just pray Anet brings the “Double Pop” back.

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

google.3709:

Zinwrath.2049:

It was an obvious bug that was being exploited. While i agree you coulda gave it that double pop and its viability (if nothing else for 2-3) woulda gone up…but it wasnt supposed to do that.

I"m sure they’ll come back to it and give it some love again in the future, but people were complaining for turret love for a long time. so that had to come this patch.

did it really ? i’ve been eating away turret engineers since patch, flame blast is enough to take turrets out, and magnet to pull them out their range, and they don’t have condi removal, run breakers or sneaky tricks :|! it’s like a free meal for an engi, imagine what they are for ele, mesmer or thief!

You just further proved my point.

I think he’s saying that currently, turret engineers are still kind of a joke.

google.3709:

Wolf.5816:

I used the Flamethrower to some nice effect, (Pre-Patch) When dueling skilled players it was never concidered “overpowered”. Each skill has to be used in its proper place, and broadcasts very visual tells to opponents making a very practice based kit. (Opinion) Applying Pressure is something that non-grenade Engineers have trouble achieving. The “Double Pop” on Flame Blast was the only thing keeping the Flamethrower Kit applicable in meta PvP, And encouraged staying in this kit for longer while also allowed for some much needed synergy with the Juggernaut trait in non-condition builds.

I just pray Anet brings the “Double Pop” back.

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

Very well put Google, controlling your position was such a challenging/rewarding play style that Flamethrower dominant builds could actually use to appear viable even against some condition builds. While simultaneously giving an ability to tango with Bunker Builds giving you pressure and sustain from well timed Flame Blast’s the ability to whittle away at Mesmers and Elementalists who are now ( post-patch) impossible to kill. (Of course I mean skilled players in organized PvP, Hot join is not exactly a grounds to prove viability and from this most builds can appear “overpowered” to new players who have not yet learned proper counter play.)

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

Phineas Poe.3018:

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

this.

I think the FT is great for zerg vs zerg. What else is going to do that much damage that consistently to 5 targets without any breaks?

It’s not a good single-target kit but then, that’s not what it was meant for, clearly. I think when people say “such-and-such sucks”, most of them are talking about sPvP and fighting people 1-2 at a time. When you’re fighting 30 at a time, the flamethrower is hard to beat. I build for FT + survival/escape and play on the front lines all the time, which great success. I could surely get more individual kills with another build but I don’t think another build can beat the total DPS output of a flamethrower build for fighting groups.

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

this.

It’s refreshing to see consistent bright posts from fellow Engineers. I figure If we actually provide constructive feedback over the latest Flamethrower Kits loss in viability. Perhaps it might find its way to the eyes of a developer, and be received in a positive light. Maby even have its Flame Blast restored. (Opinion) which I feel would be all the Kit truly needs to have an offensive edge. I would hope the rest of the tweaks would come in the form of defensive effects although this is a topic for a different thread.

Wolf.5816:

Zinwrath.2049:

Phineas Poe.3018:

google.3709:

completely agree, it felt like skillful play with the double pop since you we’re always controlling your positioning and your enemy’s in order to get max effect! and there was a reward for this kind of play style

I like how people complained for months that Flame Blast had to be used from 600 range. And then once the bug came about, people loved it.

They need to buff Flame Blast’s damage. Not bring back the “double pop.”

this.

It’s refreshing to see consistent bright posts from fellow Engineers. I figure If we actually provide constructive feedback over the latest Flamethrower Kits loss in viability. Perhaps it might find its way to the eyes of a developer, and be received in a positive light. Maby even have its Flame Blast restored. (Opinion) which I feel would be all the Kit truly needs to have an offensive edge. I would hope the rest of the tweaks would come in the form of defensive effects although this is a topic for a different thread.

it would be a good suggestion you should send it to them! FT only has 2 damage skills and #1 is kinda of a sad joke, if they give us the double pop pack, people would use FT more as shown on this past month and people would actually want to dodge this attack, creating more interactive fighting, currently they just laugh in your face and 2 shot you cause there is nothing to be scared about :S

they could bring back the doble pop and increase recharge, so people wouldn’t just be wasting it blindly, and they would have to watch their and their enemy’s positioning, this is skillfull play if you ask me. specially since they can avoid by simply walking forward

As far as im concerned FT was never viable, and either picked because fun meant more then viability. Or used for its control and niché effects. Something you switch to when you want to airblast a Thief out of his Shadow Refuge.
Something you switch to when you are going to stomp someone, so you can use your off GCD blind to prevent getting interupted.
Something you switch to, to throw out a decently hitting Flameblast because your other weapon/kit skills are on cooldown.

But not something to tape to your back and say “daddy is home, now we burn the infidels”, because you will be sorely disapointed if you have any comparitve metric from another profession.

Been using lately, and FT is not bad really, its one of the best options we got right now for 3 reasons

1. #2 is one of the hardest hitting skills we have
2. #3 if you learn how to use it, the reflect can be used on sooo many bosses its redic
3. #5 on sPvP, makes up for a great stomp finisher

and the best way to use it… do not use skill 1 , skill 1 sucks lol go back to rifle for auto attack!

Terrahero.9358:

As far as im concerned FT was never viable, and either picked because fun meant more then viability. Or used for its control and niché effects. Something you switch to when you want to airblast a Thief out of his Shadow Refuge.
Something you switch to when you are going to stomp someone, so you can use your off GCD blind to prevent getting interupted.
Something you switch to, to throw out a decently hitting Flameblast because your other weapon/kit skills are on cooldown.

But not something to tape to your back and say “daddy is home, now we burn the infidels”, because you will be sorely disapointed if you have any comparitve metric from another profession.

It is true that the Flamethrower Kit has a remarkably steep learning curb ( which was made worse by the addition of the Engineer professions already large learning curb) and has its share of flaws, But having practiced for a notable amount of time it performs quite well with the combined CC of the rifle. The only problem i seem to run into is in the lack of condition removal against Bunker/condition builds. But the damage from Flame Blast made killing them possible. (If your CC’s wernt mitigated, and if you successfully landed the Flame Blast reliably.) It was, Pre-Patch a relatively challenging/rewarding experience to be able to fight off bad match ups (Mesmers/Condition Necromancers/Bunker Rangers) with a chance at killings them.

google.3709:

It did change alot :| it set us back!! Lots of Engineers were starting to use FT and build around them because of the awesomeness of the double pop!

I mean, if you found that worth speccing around, a 2~ second b;ob rolling to an end point 600 units away and if the person just so happened to be standing there to take it would take double dmg, cool for you (I liked the idea of it, simply as a nice situational perk) . In terms of SPvP effectiveness though, it doesn’t seem to be much of a loss.

100-nades isn’t part of this thread, sorry!!
KR isn’t part of this thread, sorry!!!
There are already a few dozen other threads ‘discussing’ the loss of those.

And yeah I was fiddling with the flamethrower a bit, it can make a very entertaining might stacking crit/condi build. Not tooo competitive but entertaining nontheless. I just was hoping that juggernaut stacked 2 mights per 3s instead of 1 so it really was a good (instead of decent) trait.